long hair...a bad thing?

[whoisofthelord]

hi guys,
i have been arguing with my parents about having long hair (actually not really long just "somewhat long" haha) but they keep on saying that it's not good for my testimony (and all this other stuff about how God wanted for men to have short hair and women to have long hair) and i am always having to keep it short. and then i say to them that a testimony is a very relative thing depending on what you believe in, but they dont budge (and i also feel they dont really listen to what i have to say) and insist that it would leave a bad image of me especially since our church is such a conservative one. but i wanted to know what you all thought and maybe if you were in my shoes and you were tired of the same short haircut and style what would you say to your parents??

thanks...:)

[ArchangelGabriel]

? well i dont think they had barbershops in Jesus' time so... wouldnt his hair be long and i dont think physical appearence has "a large" deal to do with your testimony i mean if Adam hadnt sinned we would al be walking around naked

[ArchangelGabriel]

U KNOW furthermore God created us and he created our hair and it grows because of him if he truley thought we should have it kept short then why would he make it that it grows

[Crazy Liz]

We stopped fighting with our son about haircuts when he was in 8th grade, and he hasn't had one since. He is 20 and wears a ponytail, and I have no concern about it, as far as his faith is concerned.

Hairstyles are a cultural matter, and in some communities and industries the wrong hairstyle can greatly affect your job prospects, but I don't think it's a matter of faith.

[whoisofthelord]

? well i dont think they had barbershops in Jesus' time so... wouldnt his hair be long and i dont think physical appearence has "a large" deal to do with your testimony i mean if Adam hadnt sinned we would al be walking around naked

yes but i cant base a good argument on this because there is no proof that jesus had long hair...if physical appearance doesnt have a large part to do with testimony than what small part of physical appearance does?

[whoisofthelord]

We stopped fighting with our son about haircuts when he was in 8th grade, and he hasn't had one since. He is 20 and wears a ponytail, and I have no concern about it, as far as his faith is concerned.

Hairstyles are a cultural matter, and in some communities and industries the wrong hairstyle can greatly affect your job prospects, but I don't think it's a matter of faith.

you are talking about faith, but what i am wanting to know is concerning my testimony. i know i can lose a good testimony, but i wont lose my faith...so this point of view wont work against my parents

[Crazy Liz]

you are talking about faith, but what i am wanting to know is concerning my testimony. i know i can lose a good testimony, but i wont lose my faith...so this point of view wont work against my parents
Personally, I view a person's testimony as personal - not something that someone else can impose on you. In fact, forcing someone to do something their own conscience does not require just for the sake of "testimony" is to encourage (or require) hypocrisy. I know. My mother trained me well in hypocrisy. In my 50s I am still trying to learn how NOT to be a hypocrite.

That's my opinion. Your testimony is something you say for yourself, not anything someone forces you to say against your will. One of the commandments is:

exodus 20:16
deuteronomy 5:20

For your testimony to be truthful, it needs to be what you truly believe yourself, IMHO.

However, another commandment is:

exodus 20:12

At your age, living in your parents' house, I think you should consider this, and obey your parents. You can cut your hair out of respect for your parents. Your outward respect for your parents is something that is legitimately part of your public testimony.

I hope this helps.

[eldermike]

Personally, I view a person's testimony as personal - not something that someone else can impose on you. In fact, forcing someone to do something their own conscience does not require just for the sake of "testimony" is to encourage (or require) hypocrisy. I know. My mother trained me well in hypocrisy. In my 50s I am still trying to learn how NOT to be a hypocrite.

That's my opinion. Your testimony is something you say for yourself, not anything someone forces you to say against your will. One of the commandments is:

Exodus 20:16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deuteronomy 5:20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

For your testimony to be truthful, it needs to be what you truly believe yourself, IMHO.

However, another commandment is:

Exodus 20:12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

At your age, living in your parents' house, I think you should consider this, and obey your parents. You can cut your hair out of respect for your parents. Your outward respect for your parents is something that is legitimately part of your public testimony.

I hope this helps.

Yep, this is good advise. you have plenty of time in life to grow hair, but only a few years to learn from your parents. don't let hair get in the way of your relationship with mom and dad.

[whoisofthelord]

so there is a personal testimony and a public testimony?

[whoisofthelord]

Yep, this is good advise. you have plenty of time in life to grow hair, but only a few years to learn from your parents. don't let hair get in the way of your relationship with mom and dad.

if i wasnt living under my parents, and was on my own, would it then be "ok" to have long hair?

[Crazy Liz]

so there is a personal testimony and a public testimony?
No. I think a testimony is something you personally give in public. It is personal because it comes from you. personally. It is public in that you don't keep it a secret.

[whoisofthelord]

No. I think a testimony is something you personally give in public. It is personal because it comes from you. personally. It is public in that you don't keep it a secret.

hmmmm. i'm still a little confused... :scratch: if it's something i personally give in public than it's a public testimony, but not the other way around? could you give me any Bible verses on what it says about stuff like this? i'm not trying to offend but your statements are what you think about it, and i was wanting to know what the Bible says about it.

[ArchangelGabriel]

yes but i cant base a good argument on this because there is no proof that jesus had long hair...if physical appearance doesnt have a large part to do with testimony than what small part of physical appearance does?
well i think a tattoo that says "I HATE GOD BECAUSE HE DOENST EXIST" might constitue a general contrediction or something that might offend someone that you are trying to testify too

[ArchangelGabriel]

HOL UP
just actually found a verse that says you shouldnt hav long hair
but it also says you should cover your face if you a lday when you pray to God
so i guess you could tell you mom that you will cut your hair if she will wear a turban

[eldermike]

HOL UP
just actually found a verse that says you shouldnt hav long hair
but it also says you should cover your face if you a lday when you pray to God
so i guess you could tell you mom that you will cut your hair if she will wear a turban

You ask mom, moms know best.:wave:

[ArchangelGabriel]

You ask mom, moms know best.:wave:
ask her what?

[ArchangelGabriel]

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. so this should prove that God doenst really mind if you have long hair as long as your heart is of God

[ArchangelGabriel]

YOU KNOW: what REALLY HURTS your testimony is low self esteem and having a hair cut that is comfortable and makes you think you look good would really lower you confidense

[ArchangelGabriel]

btw the verse i mentioned about the hair and the turbans was

1 cor.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her

[ArchangelGabriel]

but i think it means that you have long hair in a womens image/ way

[Crazy Liz]

hmmmm. i'm still a little confused... :scratch: if it's something i personally give in public than it's a public testimony, but not the other way around? could you give me any Bible verses on what it says about stuff like this? i'm not trying to offend but your statements are what you think about it, and i was wanting to know what the Bible says about it.

Sorry. A testimony is personal in that it comes sincerely and personally from you. It is public in that it is (or may be) known to all.

I'm just talking about what the word "testimony" means. I can't give you Bible verses because the Bible is not a dictionary.

[eldermike]

ask her what?

I meant ask her, not tell her, that's all I was saying:wave:

[ArchangelGabriel]

my mom doesnt really like my hair dont know why really? i like it and everyone else seems to like it but she doesnt and i really dont want to cut it but i dont know im kinda softy :|

[ArchangelGabriel]

I meant ask her, not tell her, that's all I was saying:wave:
ohh okay yeah you better be polite when you sarcasticly give her a hard time lol

seriously though i know what you mean i try to always respect my mom

[ArchangelGabriel]

so i have to go to bed now but tell me how it plays out tomorrow and ill try to do some more research in the sripture before i go to bed tonight

[Sword-In-Hand]

I started this thread a while back, because I, too, have long hair.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2003993-i-have-long-hairam-i-sinning.html

[FWBPastor]

1Cor 11:14 states " Doth not even nature itself teach you, that , if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him ? " I think this pretty much says it all.

[TwinCrier]

1Cor 11:14 states " Doth not even nature itself teach you, that , if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him ? " I think this pretty much says it all.There ya go, when it doubt, read the instructions. Long hair is usually used as a sign of rebellion, and especially when your parents don't want you to have long hair and you disobey their wishes, you are rebelling. Is that a good testimony? God told Samuel for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. Okay, maybe you can't judge a book by it's cover as they say, but where else do you look for the author?

[Sword-In-Hand]

Since I have long hair, I can't say too much, but on the other hand, I'm married and do not live with my parents, so I'm not under their yoke. Since it appears that you still are living with your parents and they want you to cut your hair, I would say do it. We are to honor and obey our parents.

You can always let it grow out later. I'm just a particular "weirdo" who happens to like long hair :P so my length isn't out of rebellion but style.

[whoisofthelord]

in that verse of corinthians it says shameful to have long hair for a man...but how long is considered long? is it long if it's past your ears? past your eyelobes? past your shoulders?

[Sword-In-Hand]

in that verse of corinthians it says shameful to have long hair for a man...but how long is considered long? is it long if it's past your ears? past your eyelobes? past your shoulders?

This is just my personal opinion, so you can take it for what it's worth. The verse in Corinthians that people want to mention in this case, has a contextual base. The issue of women having to have head coverings is also mentioned in the same verse. We have to understand what and who Paul was addressing with his statements, and honestly I don't know. I, personally think, Paul was referring to men having long hair in order for their appearance to be feminine. Some men wanted to look like women and that was/is indeed something that would cause a man shame. I always joked around that if anyone ever mistook me for a woman, then I don't need a hair cut, they need a stronger prescription on their glasses.;)

I'm still studying this verse in regards to my long hair. I mean where I live, if your hair is past your eyes, it's considered long, so you can imagine what some might think of me since it's shoulder length lol. I haven't come to a conclusion if this is a verse we should take at face value or a verse that needs looked into. (Iso and Exo studies.) I would say that if you feel a conviction to cut your hair, do it.

[TwinCrier]

Found this site on the subject today: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/5043/Shorthair.html
I was searching for something else but you know search engines. I hadn't even thought about Absalom.

[Sword-In-Hand]

Hmm. I read that site and it made me cringe. Not with any sort of conviction, but an underlying theme I developed from reading the text. It seems this man wants, in jumbled words, to imply that if you're not wearing a suit and tie then you are not dressing according to Scripture. I guess John the Baptist was just out of luck then.;) Also, I think the argument of Jesus having or not having long hair should be thrown out because we don't know.

And no one take that the wrong way. I do believe in modest dress and apparel for both men and women. I think attire these days is atrocious and everyone "should" dress appropriate for church, but then rises the situation of what if a certain family or person can only wear what they can wear? Are we to show them the door? No way. The book of James teaches we are to show favor on no one for the way they dress. And also the lines we should draw.

I personally think the author of this piece wrote it because he specifically doesn't like long hair, and he's completely intitled to his opinion, of which I respectfully disagree. Having long hair is not always a matter of rebellion or trying to appear feminine. I found too many holes in his logic to agree, but for others it may work.

[TwinCrier]

We'll just have to disagree then. Though I would like to see scripture support for this position.

[Sword-In-Hand]

We'll just have to disagree then. Though I would like to see scripture support for this position.

Actually I went back over the thread I had started over the same subject and what Lambslove wrote was pretty accurate for my situation and I do have Biblical backing.

Paul says in 11: 13, "Judge for yourselves:"

And I have judged and I see nothing wrong with it, provided it does not ruin a witness, done out of rebellion or used to make a male appear feminine. I've always said if my hair caused someone to stumble I would cut it immediately, but everyone I've seen supports me and makes no judgment, even my pastor who has the perpetual "high and tight" always going on.

[tamtam92]

The first thought that came to me reading this thread was -1Cor11 !-.
I take the Bible literally - as a girl, i wear long hair -> that is a least past the shoulders. And i cover my head at church too (or at christian meetings).
And for men, i expect them to have short hair - there the point is, how long is long ?- and to uncover their head at church.

Anyway, i can't judge it. Humanly speaking, i'd rather like long hair (like in Lord of the Rings for instance), and yet i consider it unbiblical. So to me, men wearing long hair simply do it to their shame...

So if you like long hair, try to have them "in between", somewhat neither short nor long. it depends if your hair are curly or not. I think 10 cm is already quite too long...
To me, "long" for a woman is not like "long" for a man. Otherwise, the simple fact that i said that long was past the shoulders for women would have meant that above was short for men. It is very difficult to consider it. I think the most important is, not to look feminine (like wearing a poney-tail or have a typical feminine hairstyle).

Of course it would have been easier if God had told us " men shall not have their hair more than xx cm long"... but He wants us to use our brains... :)

Anyway, you'd better not get on bad terms with your parents only for such a reason. Your hairstyle is a secondary thing considering life...

[12volt_man]

hi guys,
i have been arguing with my parents about having long hair (actually not really long just "somewhat long" haha) but they keep on saying that it's not good for my testimony (and all this other stuff about how God wanted for men to have short hair and women to have long hair) and i am always having to keep it short. and then i say to them that a testimony is a very relative thing depending on what you believe in, but they dont budge (and i also feel they dont really listen to what i have to say) and insist that it would leave a bad image of me especially since our church is such a conservative one. but i wanted to know what you all thought and maybe if you were in my shoes and you were tired of the same short haircut and style what would you say to your parents??

thanks...:)

There's nothing wrong with long hair. There is no scriptural teaching against it.

But there is a Biblical admonition to honor your parents and to respect their authority.

Do what they tell you while you're under their authority and then, when you're an adult, grow it however you want it.

[ArchangelGabriel]

There's nothing wrong with long hair. There is no scriptural teaching against it.

But there is a Biblical admonition to honor your parents and to respect their authority.

Do what they tell you while you're under their authority and then, when you're an adult, grow it however you want it.

yes this is true but that doesnt mean you cant openly disagree with them exspecially if pretaining to God

[ArchangelGabriel]

The first thought that came to me reading this thread was -1Cor11 !-.
I take the Bible literally - as a girl, i wear long hair -> that is a least past the shoulders. And i cover my head at church too (or at christian meetings).
And for men, i expect them to have short hair - there the point is, how long is long ?- and to uncover their head at church.

Anyway, i can't judge it. Humanly speaking, i'd rather like long hair (like in Lord of the Rings for instance), and yet i consider it unbiblical. So to me, men wearing long hair simply do it to their shame...

So if you like long hair, try to have them "in between", somewhat neither short nor long. it depends if your hair are curly or not. I think 10 cm is already quite too long...
To me, "long" for a woman is not like "long" for a man. Otherwise, the simple fact that i said that long was past the shoulders for women would have meant that above was short for men. It is very difficult to consider it. I think the most important is, not to look feminine (like wearing a poney-tail or have a typical feminine hairstyle).

Of course it would have been easier if God had told us " men shall not have their hair more than xx cm long"... but He wants us to use our brains... :)

Anyway, you'd better not get on bad terms with your parents only for such a reason. Your hairstyle is a secondary thing considering life...

so two things
out of curiousity do you use something particular or do you just throw a blanket over your head every time you pray?
-if you take it LITERALLY does that mean people with no hair and/or cancer patients with no hair are Wrong? since thats not short hair thats no hair

[ArchangelGabriel]

This is just my personal opinion, so you can take it for what it's worth. The verse in Corinthians that people want to mention in this case, has a contextual base. The issue of women having to have head coverings is also mentioned in the same verse. We have to understand what and who Paul was addressing with his statements, and honestly I don't know. I, personally think, Paul was referring to men having long hair in order for their appearance to be feminine. Some men wanted to look like women and that was/is indeed something that would cause a man shame. I always joked around that if anyone ever mistook me for a woman, then I don't need a hair cut, they need a stronger prescription on their glasses.;)

I'm still studying this verse in regards to my long hair. I mean where I live, if your hair is past your eyes, it's considered long, so you can imagine what some might think of me since it's shoulder length lol. I haven't come to a conclusion if this is a verse we should take at face value or a verse that needs looked into. (Iso and Exo studies.) I would say that if you feel a conviction to cut your hair, do it.

likes this response

[ArchangelGabriel]

if the bible doesnt give ANY clue to Jesus' having long hair then 1. it doesnt give any reference to him cutting it and 2.wouldnt he make a point of having short hair if thats what he wanted us to have so why not mention it why leave the possiblity open

[ArchangelGabriel]

1Cor 11:14 states " Doth not even nature itself teach you, that , if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him ? " I think this pretty much says it all.
nope cause it could mean that the shame is coming from him stripping on the ground because he stepped on his bangs
so then it wouldnt be as much having long hair as it was the falling down part
and whos to say he wasnt mentioning his under arm hair

[ArchangelGabriel]

There ya go, when it doubt, read the instructions. Long hair is usually used as a sign of rebellion, and especially when your parents don't want you to have long hair and you disobey their wishes, you are rebelling. Is that a good testimony? God told Samuel for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. Okay, maybe you can't judge a book by it's cover as they say, but where else do you look for the author?

sidenote:why does everyone think rebellion is such bad thing

but you have to but your heavenly father before your earthly father so since your heavenly father causes your hair to grow wouldnt that be mean to go cut it

[ArchangelGabriel]

you know how do you think Adam would have cut his hair????????
furthermore how do you think Adam could have survived the winter without long hair

[ArchangelGabriel]

in that verse of corinthians it says shameful to have long hair for a man...but how long is considered long? is it long if it's past your ears? past your eyelobes? past your shoulders?

that and like others said is long a length here or a style like a women's style

[ArchangelGabriel]

i think it has to be style since you could have long length hair but still wear it in a bun and call it short hair

[Leimeng]

~ Don't forget that Sampson had long hair until it was cut by Delilah and look where the short hair got him. In fact, it was one of the vows of the Nazerines to have long hair. Since Jesus was from Nazereth, we can just speculate.
~ As long as your are allowed to make your own decisions, grow your hair as long as you like. Dont let yourself become bound up into other peoples legalistic bondage.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

[ArchangelGabriel]

is that site mentioned earlier REALLY trying to imply that there is a connection between long hair and homosexuality????

[ArchangelGabriel]

so how did Jesus keep his hair short?
-if he did kep it short then that would mean that humans hiaar didnt gro as much as they do now so if that changed wouldnt hair length change
-if he didnt then well thats obvious

[12volt_man]

~ Don't forget that Sampson had long hair until it was cut by Delilah and look where the short hair got him. In fact, it was one of the vows of the Nazerines to have long hair. Since Jesus was from Nazereth, we can just speculate.

Actually, that's part of the Nazarite vow, not the Nazarene vow.

The Nazarites were a sect of priests. Nazarenes were just anybody from Nazareth.

[ArchangelGabriel]

Actually, that's part of the Nazarite vow, not the Nazarene vow.

The Nazarites were a sect of priests. Nazarenes were just anybody from Nazareth.
yes yes that was there on the website too
but he did make a excellent point about the samson

[Palomino]

wow,what a cool mom you are.:hug: :hug: We stopped fighting with our son about haircuts when he was in 8th grade, and he hasn't had one since. He is 20 and wears a ponytail, and I have no concern about it, as far as his faith is concerned.

Hairstyles are a cultural matter, and in some communities and industries the wrong hairstyle can greatly affect your job prospects, but I don't think it's a matter of faith.

[Crazy Liz]

wow,what a cool mom you are.:hug: :hug:
My 12-year-old daughter says to tell you "Rock on!" :P

[Flynmonkie]

I have not gotten through all of this thread but UGH!
First of all the key of your post to me is "arguing with your parents" - shame!
Do not argue with your parents. It is not a matter of long or short hair at that point - it is a respect your parent rule.

Now further reading....

God does not care if your hair is short of long. It DOES NOT MATTER.
Do you think all Christians should have short military type hairstyles? UGH!

It was a different time- Paul is addressing a different culture. Our culture is much different and I would be very surprised if you turned someone away from being able to share the gospel because you have long hair! Long haired people need Christ and salvation too!!! But in your parents home you are (must) respect them. You won't win the fight there!

People have brought up the Corinthian verses but they never pay attention to v16!
1 Corinthians 11:15-16
16But if any man seem to be contentious[argue], we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
[.]

[stone]

hi guys,
i have been arguing with my parents about having long hair (actually not really long just "somewhat long" haha) but they keep on saying that it's not good for my testimony (and all this other stuff about how God wanted for men to have short hair and women to have long hair) and i am always having to keep it short. and then i say to them that a testimony is a very relative thing depending on what you believe in, but they dont budge (and i also feel they dont really listen to what i have to say) and insist that it would leave a bad image of me especially since our church is such a conservative one. but i wanted to know what you all thought and maybe if you were in my shoes and you were tired of the same short haircut and style what would you say to your parents??

thanks...:)

A boy haveing long hair is not what plants a bad seed. It is the job of the parents of the child however, to prevent bad seeds from being planted.

[TwinCrier]

sidenote:why does everyone think rebellion is such bad thing

but you have to but your heavenly father before your earthly father so since your heavenly father causes your hair to grow wouldnt that be mean to go cut it
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Proverbs 17:11 An evil man seeketh only rebellion:

If you're saying God wants you to have long hair simply because it grows, do you apply that same logic to your toenails?

[ArchangelGabriel]

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Proverbs 17:11 An evil man seeketh only rebellion:

If you're saying God wants you to have long hair simply because it grows, do you apply that same logic to your toenails?
yeah, why not?
are you saying that God doesnt want us to have long toe nails?

[TwinCrier]

~ Don't forget that Sampson had long hair until it was cut by Delilah and look where the short hair got him. In fact, it was one of the vows of the Nazerines to have long hair. Since Jesus was from Nazereth, we can just speculate.
~ As long as your are allowed to make your own decisions, grow your hair as long as you like. Dont let yourself become bound up into other peoples legalistic bondage.
Jesus was from Bethlehem actually, but he was called a Nazarene only because He lived in Nazareth, He wasn't a Nazarite. And it was only a temporary vow, one that had other conditions as well.
Numbers 6:19 And the priest shall take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them upon the hands of the Nazarite, after the hair of his separation is shaven:
It's never legalism to condemn sin.

[TwinCrier]

yeah, why not?
are you saying that God doesnt want us to have long toe nails?Yes, I don't need scripture for that one either. Personal hygiene should be common sense.

[Crazy Liz]

I have not gotten through all of this thread but UGH!
First of all the key of your post to me is "arguing with your parents" - shame!
Do not argue with your parents. It is not a matter of long or short hair at that point - it is a respect your parent rule.
Well, there is arguing and there is arguing...

I can remember many arguments with my parents when I was a teenager. Most of them were mutually respectful debates. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I think in some cases it is a parent's responsibility to allow their child to express a different opinion so the child will learn how to disagree respectfully as an adult.

However, a parent finally has the authority to say, "I realize we disagree about this, but while you live at home I'm going to require you to do this thing my way."

A teenager needs to learn that it is OK to disagree and still obey your parents. We all have to do some things in life differently than we would want to, for various reasons.

Since WITL and AG have been able to discuss this subject respectfully with us, I assume they are each able to do the same with their parents, and although they are willing to obey, they would like to know what other Christians think about each opinion. They are willing to have short hair if their parents insist, but they need not agree with their parents' reasoning for their decision.

The OP stated that his parents argued that he needed to wear short hair for the sake of his "testimony." This is a reason one gives when trying to persuade, not when giving orders, because a testimony is something THAT INDIVIDUAL says or does out of his or her OWN personal integrity. When one orders a person to say something as a witness in court that is not what the witness personally knows, this is called witness tampering or suborning perjury, and is a serious crime. One Christian similarly cannot ORDER another to give a particular type of testimony.

However, a parent may order a child in their home to get a haircut, and a Christian child should obey his parents. In this case, the haircut is for the sake of obedience, not for the sake of a testimony.

[Flynmonkie]

Liz we have what we call a “guide” not “control” policy in our house so I understand. As I stated the only thing that jumped out at me was that they were arguing. I wanted to make sure if this were the case, not a discussion, but an argument. It is understood that this would be a bigger problem to be concerned about than IF parents let them leave their hair long or short. So absolutely I agree, discussion is one thing, argument is another! :)

[Crazy Liz]

Liz we have what we call a “guide” not “control” policy in our house so I understand. As I stated the only thing that jumped out at me was that they were arguing. I wanted to make sure if this were the case, not a discussion, but an argument. It is understood that this would be a bigger problem to be concerned about than IF parents let them leave their hair long or short. So absolutely I agree, discussion is one thing, argument is another! :)
I agree, although I was thinking of the more formal usage of "argument" - a discussion in which reasons are given on both sides. My parents and I had a lot of that kind of arguments, and now my husband and I have them with our kids. I assumed that was what the OP meant by argument, since his parents' argument was a persuasive one ("your testimony") rather than another type.

Formal arguments, like those in forensic matters, are generally very respectful. I would hope arguments between parents and children would be equally respectful. :thumbsup:

[JPPT1974]

I think we need to have conversations rather than arguements.
We can do so in a civilized and polite but firm matter.
Rather than wanting to jump up and strangle people.

[jochanaan]

Just got here. There were three men mentioned in the Bible who were Nazarites from birth: Samson, Samuel the prophet, and John the Baptist. In the case of Samson, it is specific that letting his hair grow was part of his being a Nazarite. It doesn't say so in the case of Samson or JB, but the Bible does specifically say that their mothers were not to drink wine during their pregnancy because their sons would be set apart for the Lord. So whether or not Jesus had long hair (I tend to think he did, or why would He be portrayed that way so often when cultural expectations were so different?), it's fairly certain John the Baptist would have. And apparently Paul at one point took a limited Nazarite vow, for he had his head shaved at Cenchrea to fulfill it. (Acts 18:18) So for a time he would not have been cutting his hair, despite his words in I Corinthians.

[tamtam92]

so two things
out of curiousity do you use something particular or do you just throw a blanket over your head every time you pray?
-if you take it LITERALLY does that mean people with no hair and/or cancer patients with no hair are Wrong? since thats not short hair thats no hair

Well that's out of topic here so i'll only make a short answer.
1.I bring a veil with me to church. 2.I don't see any problem with women having no hair because of a disease. For prayer, they would cover their head anyway, so there's no difference.

[ArchangelGabriel]

Well that's out of topic here so i'll only make a short answer.
1.I bring a veil with me to church. 2.I don't see any problem with women having no hair because of a disease. For prayer, they would cover their head anyway, so there's no difference.

well i meant both but i was particulary talking about men then

[ArchangelGabriel]

I have not gotten through all of this thread but UGH!
First of all the key of your post to me is "arguing with your parents" - shame!
Do not argue with your parents. It is not a matter of long or short hair at that point - it is a respect your parent rule.

Now further reading....

God does not care if your hair is short of long. It DOES NOT MATTER.
Do you think all Christians should have short military type hairstyles? UGH!

It was a different time- Paul is addressing a different culture. Our culture is much different and I would be very surprised if you turned someone away from being able to share the gospel because you have long hair! Long haired people need Christ and salvation too!!! But in your parents home you are (must) respect them. You won't win the fight there!

People have brought up the Corinthian verses but they never pay attention to v16!
1 Corinthians 11:15-16
16But if any man seem to be contentious[argue], we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
[.]

yes you have to respect them but that doesnt mean you cant disagree with them

>?

[Flynmonkie]

My apologies I took the term argument to mean that you were in fact arguing right along with other posters. I did not read through the rest of the thread as I said. So I have not idea other than what was posted. I wasn’t chastising you – I just told you to argue and disrespect your parents is much worse in Gods eyes than having long hair. Most people (unless formally trained) say they are in a discussion if that is in fact all it is. I did not know I entered Law Chat by posting here.

Why do I feel I just entered a conversation with F. Lee Bailey? :doh: Nevermind my posts- act like I never stopped by.

[tamtam92]

well i meant both but i was particulary talking about men then

I don't see any problem with men having no hair.

[whoisofthelord]

so basicaly the final answer is it's ok to have long hair because the Bible says nothing against it, but since my parents give the final verdict i have to obey them even though they're wrong? so what if they told me, "dont do your homework because the Bible says that we should always dedicate our lives to him and constantly glorify him, and learning algebraic formulas for school is not good" do i still obey them even thought they're wrong?? :scratch: (BTW that was just an illustration to say that if they told me something that was wrong should i still be doing what they say)

[Crazy Liz]

so basicaly the final answer is it's ok to have long hair because the Bible says nothing against it, but since my parents give the final verdict i have to obey them even though they're wrong?

OK, I'm going to teach you a new theological term. Pay attention and you can impress your friends! ;)

The word is adiaphora (http://www.swif.uniba.it/lei/foldop/foldoc.cgi?adiaphora). It is defined as:

morally indifferent, or things which do not make a difference, matters regarded as non-essential, issues about which one can disagree without dividing the Church.
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/windsor2004/section_b/p10.cfm

The general consensus (with one or two dissents) of the participants of this forum is that haircuts are adiaphora. Your parents do not think haircuts are adiaphora, and we think they are wrong about that, but that is not a good reason to disobey them. You may try to persuade them that they are adiaphora. You may ask them to agree to disagree with you about this, and allow you to cut your hair the way you like because you believe it is adiaphora, and they need not dictate their viewpoint on you at this time.

But ultimately, since this is a matter of adiaphora, you should obey them if they insist. Some parents insist their children clean their plates at dinner and some don't. Should children refuse to obey their parents just because the parents insist on doing things a certain way and the children realize it is not a moral matter, but adiaphora?

Probably 99.99% of the things your parents ask you to do are adiaphora.

so what if they told me, "dont do your homework because the Bible says that we should always dedicate our lives to him and constantly glorify him, and learning algebraic formulas for school is not good" do i still obey them even thought they're wrong?? :scratch: (BTW that was just an illustration to say that if they told me something that was wrong should i still be doing what they say)

Would that also be a matter of adiaphora? On matters of adiaphora, you should obey your parents if you can't persuade them to go along with what you want. If the matter is not adiaphora, that is a whole different kind of moral dilemma.

[tamtam92]

so basicaly the final answer is it's ok to have long hair because the Bible says nothing against it, but since my parents give the final verdict i have to obey them even though they're wrong? so what if they told me, "dont do your homework because the Bible says that we should always dedicate our lives to him and constantly glorify him, and learning algebraic formulas for school is not good" do i still obey them even thought they're wrong?? :scratch: (BTW that was just an illustration to say that if they told me something that was wrong should i still be doing what they say)

Well if you read my post you'll see i disagree with that conclusion. It depends what you mean by "long"...

Anyway, as long as it's not against the Bible, yes, you must obey your parents. Even if you think it's wrong. And you might even discover later that they were right. Sometimes it's only once we've obeyed that we can understand things, or within a long period of time.

[RED that's ME]

Ephesians 6:2-3While you're in your parents house you need to obey them. You might not like what they ask but they are your parents. Children are suppose to obey their parents if what their parents ask doesn't go against God. I know you want them to listen to your opinion on this but they have the end decision on it.

Even though you have seen both sides here say, there's scripture/isn't scripture you can see the one who actually quoted verses against it.

Just because we don't know if they had barbers back then doesn't mean that men went around with long hair either. They had knives/sharp tools for many different things they could have used. Just because there's pictures of Jesus doesn't mean they are true. Pictures can be deceiving and false. Most pictures portrays Jesus as white/handsome and that isn't true per what the Bible says.

Isaiah 53:2b, “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.” All this tells us is that Jesus’ appearance was just like any other man – He was ordinary looking. Jesus was a Jew, so He likely had very tan skin, dark eyes, and dark hair. This is a far from the blond-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Jesus in most modern pictures.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_3v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZB) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_21v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZB)

Having short/long hair doesn't mean you're not a christian.

When your mom was saying it could hurt your testimony, means that others might not listen to you what you have to say/look down on you with long hair. It's not just the words you say but your actions/dress to some people.
Some people with longer hair can reach though others who might not listen.

Bottom line...If it doesn't go against God's rules then what your parents say you need to obey. :)

[TwinCrier]

so basicaly the final answer is it's ok to have long hair because the Bible says nothing against it, but since my parents give the final verdict i have to obey them even though they're wrong? so what if they told me, "dont do your homework because the Bible says that we should always dedicate our lives to him and constantly glorify him, and learning algebraic formulas for school is not good" do i still obey them even thought they're wrong?? :scratch: (BTW that was just an illustration to say that if they told me something that was wrong should i still be doing what they say)
You are a kid, you follow your parents rules. Unless they demand you commit a sin in which case you should honor the Lord above your parents, however your parents like most seem to have your best interest at heart. Long haired men usually don't attract the most wholesome of mates nor likely achieve great position in the job market.

[Sword-In-Hand]

Long haired men usually don't attract the most wholesome of mates nor likely achieve great position in the job market.

Hmm. I'm actually surprised and disappointed you would make a comment like that Twin.:sigh:

[tamtam92]

Long haired men usually don't attract the most wholesome of mates nor likely achieve great position in the job market.
I disagree. Long hair can be attractive to anybody. And I have met a lot of bright people with good positions having long hair. This is not the issue.

I'm astonished about something i read, that children must obey their parents when they live with them. I'll be the child of my parents all my life, and i must obey them all my life ! The difference is, when i'm an adult, they don't always tell me what i shall do.

[whoisofthelord]

just out of curiosity... why is it that you often find pictures of those guys back in the 1600-1700's wearing those long curly wigs?? even some of those preachers from the national revival that spread across America (I think his name is George Whitefield and others like John something) used long-haired wigs??

[ArchangelGabriel]

I think we need to have conversations rather than arguements.
We can do so in a civilized and polite but firm matter.
Rather than wanting to jump up and strangle people.

well you can have civilized arguements
a, the way your using the word, would be the exact same thing as the wway we are using the wrod arguement

[ArchangelGabriel]

I don't see any problem with men having no hair.
but if you take the bible literally enough to say that they must have short hair then why not literally enough to say that they must HAVE short hair

[ArchangelGabriel]

so basicaly the final answer is it's ok to have long hair because the Bible says nothing against it, but since my parents give the final verdict i have to obey them even though they're wrong? so what if they told me, "dont do your homework because the Bible says that we should always dedicate our lives to him and constantly glorify him, and learning algebraic formulas for school is not good" do i still obey them even thought they're wrong?? :scratch: (BTW that was just an illustration to say that if they told me something that was wrong should i still be doing what they say)Thats why you hold your haevenly father above your earthly parents/father

God holds so when she said God holds disrespecting your parents as far worse than having long hair that really cant be true if indeed he does want us to have long hair

[ArchangelGabriel]

Ephesians 6:2-32 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. While you're in your parents house you need to obey them. You might not like what they ask but they are your parents. Children are suppose to obey their parents if what their parents ask doesn't go against God. I know you want them to listen to your opinion on this but they have the end decision on it.

Even though you have seen both sides here say, there's scripture/isn't scripture you can see the one who actually quoted verses against it.

Just because we don't know if they had barbers back then doesn't mean that men went around with long hair either. They had knives/sharp tools for many different things they could have used. Just because there's pictures of Jesus doesn't mean they are true. Pictures can be deceiving and false. Most pictures portrays Jesus as white/handsome and that isn't true per what the Bible says.

Isaiah 53:2b, “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.” All this tells us is that Jesus’ appearance was just like any other man – He was ordinary looking. Jesus was a Jew, so He likely had very tan skin, dark eyes, and dark hair. This is a far from the blond-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Jesus in most modern pictures.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_3v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZB) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_21v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZB)

Having short/long hair doesn't mean you're not a christian.

When your mom was saying it could hurt your testimony, means that others might not listen to you what you have to say/look down on you with long hair. It's not just the words you say but your actions/dress to some people.
Some people with longer hair can reach though others who might not listen.

Bottom line...If it doesn't go against God's rules then what your parents say you need to obey. :)

well who are your "parents" then??????

[ArchangelGabriel]

You are a kid, you follow your parents rules. Unless they demand you commit a sin in which case you should honor the Lord above your parents, however your parents like most seem to have your best interest at heart. Long haired men usually don't attract the most wholesome of mates nor likely achieve great position in the job market.
1.well if the Holy spirit is making him think agaisnt it then ...
2.thats is a personal opinion
3. and even if that is true, your ssaying you should cut your hair so the world will like you?

[kw5kw]

yes yes that was there on the website too
but he did make a excellent point about the samson

It was a command from God that Samson should never cut his hair.
You can read the full story in Judges starting in Chapter 13. I'm going to highlight JU 13:5 for you here: "For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. "

Levites were to shave their entire bodies: Lev 14:8.
Other scriptures that mention shaving and cutting of hair: Num 6:9, 18; Num 8:7; Isa 7:20; Eze 5:1 and Acts 18:18. You'll notice in Ezekiel, he actually mentions it as a 'barbers razor.' So they did have barbers way before Jesus.

Does not nature teach you that it is wrong (discraceful, a shame to him) to have long hair -- for a man to look like a woman. Read Romans Chapter 1:22-32.

Remember the 10 commandments as well.

Your Brother in Christ,
Russ

[JPPT1974]

well who are your "parents" then??????

I have parents that are Christian & Conservertive. Also Southern Baptists being born, brought up, and will die that way.
I am 31 but prefer the clean-cut man.

[Crazy Liz]

I'm astonished about something i read, that children must obey their parents when they live with them. I'll be the child of my parents all my life, and i must obey them all my life ! The difference is, when i'm an adult, they don't always tell me what i shall do.
It's nice that you have reasonable parents who treat you as an adult. I do, too. When I'm at my mom's house and she asks me to make a salad, of course I do it.

But unfortunately, I know all too many families in which parents continue to try to control the lives of their adult children. These adults have a hard time being respectful to their parents, but they try to. However, they have no obligation to obey. Adult children owe their parents respect and support when in need, but not obedience.

[indra_fanatic]

But unfortunately, I know all too many families in which parents continue to try to control the lives of their adult children. These adults have a hard time being respectful to their parents, but they try to. However, they have no obligation to obey. Adult children owe their parents respect and support when in need, but not obedience.
Yeah, I always understood as well that obedience per se is an obligation for when you are under their roof.

Slightly off-topic, but have you noticed that many courtship/betrothal activists will argue that an adult child of ANY age, regardless of living situation, must okay any romantic choice with both parents, regardless of whether or not they are walking with God or even have any interest in the matter?

[Crazy Liz]

Yeah, I always understood as well that obedience per se is an obligation for when you are under their roof.

Slightly off-topic, but have you noticed that many courtship/betrothal activists will argue that an adult child of ANY age, regardless of living situation, must okay any romantic choice with both parents, regardless of whether or not they are walking with God or even have any interest in the matter?Yes. That has to do with taking the customs mentioned in the OT as normative for all times, places and cultures.

[indra_fanatic]

Yes. That has to do with taking the customs mentioned in the OT as normative for all times, places and cultures.
Wouldn't you agree though that there is a difference between a custom and a commandment?

I suppose these betrothal guys also want us to burn the carcass of a bull in our backyards to atone for our sins and to stone our children when disobedient. :eek:

[TwinCrier]

1.well if the Holy spirit is making him think agaisnt it then ...
2.thats is a personal opinion
3. and even if that is true, your ssaying you should cut your hair so the world will like you?
1) I don't think it would be the 'Holy' spirit,
2) Since the bible verses have been discussed, it's God's opinion. That's very personal.
3) No, you should do it because it says so in the bible. You should do it because it's what your parents want. You should do it because you are a Christian. You should do it because it hinders your witness. If you want the world to like you, the long hair will be fine.

[Sword-In-Hand]

No, you should do it because it says so in the bible. You should do it because it's what your parents want. You should do it because you are a Christian. You should do it because it hinders your witness. If you want the world to like you, the long hair will be fine.

Jesus likes me, and anyone else that has long hair...as a matter of fact, Jesus loves me this I know...

The ONLY reason this person should get a haircut is because his parents desire it to be so and he is under their roof. The scripture says judge for yourselves.

And I ask this honestly. To the lost world, what makes a better witness, a well dressed man who most lost people would automatically assume they were judging them or someone who came down to their level? I've had more witnessing opportunities because of my hair than I ever did when I was "clean cut". To me, thinking that only trimmed, shaved, suited men can have proper job placement and proper mates, apparently, is conforming to the world and certainly not God. Paul said he became all things to all men so some might be saved. I must not fit the mold here, because I hold leadership positions both in jobs and in church and my wife is the most godly woman I know.

It is not a sin to have long hair for a man. It is a sin to be disobedient to parents.

[Hisbygrace]

Personally, I view a person's testimony as personal - not something that someone else can impose on you. In fact, forcing someone to do something their own conscience does not require just for the sake of "testimony" is to encourage (or require) hypocrisy. I know. My mother trained me well in hypocrisy. In my 50s I am still trying to learn how NOT to be a hypocrite.

That's my opinion. Your testimony is something you say for yourself, not anything someone forces you to say against your will. One of the commandments is:

Exodus 20:16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deuteronomy 5:20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

For your testimony to be truthful, it needs to be what you truly believe yourself, IMHO.

However, another commandment is:

Exodus 20:12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

At your age, living in your parents' house, I think you should consider this, and obey your parents. You can cut your hair out of respect for your parents. Your outward respect for your parents is something that is legitimately part of your public testimony.

I hope this helps.

Very good, I agree. Your testimony is something that comes from your heart and your heart alone. But we are commanded to honor our mother and father, so while in their home you should honor their feelings.

[DeaconDean]

Just as the Bible says, men should not wear things that pertain to women, and that long hair was given to women for their glory, it really is a matter of perspective and choice. As long as a man does not wear it the same way as a woman (feminine), and keeps it clean and groomed well, I don't see a problem. I'm a Deacon in my church and I have a "rat tail" that is half way down my back. It really isn't about the hair, it's about faith and works. My church knows the type of person I am, the faith I have, and the works I do in the name of the Lord, so they have no problem with it. Sometimes when I come into church and I've just washed my hair and had it braded, it is sometimes hard to see and the women will ask me "Where is your tail?" Then I pull it from behind and show it to them and they will giggle and say they thought my wife cut it off. I have wore this "rat tail" for 17 years and I like it.

[Sword-In-Hand]

Just as the Bible says, men should not wear things that pertain to women, and that long hair was given to women for their glory, it really is a matter of perspective and choice. As long as a man does not wear it the same way as a woman (feminine), and keeps it clean and groomed well, I don't see a problem. I'm a Deacon in my church and I have a "rat tail" that is half way down my back. It really isn't about the hair, it's about faith and works. My church knows the type of person I am, the faith I have, and the works I do in the name of the Lord, so they have no problem with it. Sometimes when I come into church and I've just washed my hair and had it braded, it is sometimes hard to see and the women will ask me "Where is your tail?" Then I pull it from behind and show it to them and they will giggle and say they thought my wife cut it off. I have wore this "rat tail" for 17 years and I like it.

Nice :thumbsup: . I respect anyone who will still sport the "tail."

I think if I ever cut my hair, I'm gonna don the handle-bar mustache and get an uber-mullet for a couple of weeks.

[Flynmonkie]

Now why didn't God think of some gene in the man that prevented him to have to hit the barber shop every few weeks! This gets expensive eh? He must have goofed! :doh:

Rat-tail! I am still looking around trying to figure out which one of you I can call mullet head around here! ^_^

[DeaconDean]

Rat-tail! I am still looking around trying to figure out which one of you I can call mullet head around here!

I've been called a lot of things in my life. Some of the worse by my Marine Corps Drill Instructor, but "mullet head?" What in the Sam Hill is that? Should I be offended?

[Flynmonkie]

You don't know what a MULLET HEAD IS? ^_^

A mullet: Popular in the 80's. Long hair in back short on sides and front. A rat tail on steroids! :thumbsup:

The mullet is a type of haircut. It is relatively short on top, longer at the back (at least to the shoulders), with the ears exposed. However, ponytail is not a mullet. The mullet also goes by various nicknames, including Ape Drape, Camaro Cut, Shlong (Short-Long), Mudflap, Hockey Hair, ten-ninety, Tennessee Tophat and Kentucky Waterfall, Neck Warmer and Coupe Longueuil (Quebec French term meaning Longueuil-haircut). ... :P
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullet_(hairdo)

Or for visual effects:
I had a site listed here but I am not too comfortable with it. Just do a search on what is a mullet (hair do - otherwise you will get stars!) You'll see! :cool:

Some of the worse by my Marine Corps Drill Instructor,

Didn't they call you skully then? ^_^ he he..

No I am just teasin you! I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long! ;)

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

I haven't read through this thread, but I know one or two christians who have long hair and it doesn't seem to affect them. I personally don't like long hair on guys - I wouldn't have long hair myself - but I'm not sure I'd class it as sinful. After all Samson lost a lot of strength after having his hair cut off, suggesting that long hair canbe a good thing.

[Happy to be His]

This is what I found in the bible.

1 Corinthains 11:14

Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him....

I don't know how long is long in this scripture but Jesus and most men had some what long hair. Womens hair was much longer.

I know that a lot of people look down on long hair on guys....my son has had long hair for a long time. but he kept it neat.

I don't know what else to say, hair is a funny thing. I had an elderly person tell me once since I was over a certian age I had to have short hair. Now where did that come from.....

:D

[nb_christseeker]

as a guy, i dont mind long hair on men. the flesh counts for nothing.

Hi everyone...
Will you please pray to the Lord Yeshua Christ for me that I can get some friends (among other things) ? I put a post in prayer requests, but not everyone checks those... I don't have too many people as friends, so if you're lonely, or yknow whatever, I've got some time to email people. I write kinda stream-of-consciousness like, so don't expect too many "formal" seeming emails. I just dish it out raw usually. So, if you wanna friend, come, or if you just wanna pray, please do, or if you need a prayer, ask me. Have faith and pray for me. Lord knows I need it. Its been working so far, but the more the merrier right??? and its a great way to fellowship. and i will pray for you as well, especially if we become best friends, which is what i'm pretty much looking for. i guess if youre only into acquaintances, thats fine too. the more the merrier!

ok, i've blathered on for long enough. btw i write long emails. so uh, yknow. fyi or whate'er.

Love in Christ,
Neil Becker
25, M, Ohio
PS - Oh yeah: I believe in the Lord Yeshua Christ, the son of God and son of man who suffered and died for our sins on the cross and was buried. He was resurrected from the dead on the third day and gave believers redemption by his blood. He is holy, God the Son. Whoever repents and believes in Him and His Father and the Holy Spirit (one God now and forever) will be saved. He was sent by God. So yknow, thats what I believe, like it or not.

So, please be saved, and if you want a christian friend, I'm here for you. So I hope you'll be here for me, at least in daily ceaseless prayer (ideally). You can send me any prayer requests by PM to nb_christseeker or ncbecker @ hotmail.com . Or you can PM me anything. questions, comments, whatever. Thanks. Boy that was a long PostScript. =) l8rz

[rainbowbright]

I haven't read all the posts here, but to give you a sort of history lesson, long hair (and long beard) is sign being a servant. Early christians wore their hair and beards long as sign that they were servants of God. The 'clean-shaven' look came out of Rome and was associated with what class they were in (meaning they were the master). there's nothing wrong with having long hair.

[ArchangelGabriel]

1) I don't think it would be the 'Holy' spirit,
2) Since the bible verses have been discussed, it's God's opinion. That's very personal.
3) No, you should do it because it says so in the bible. You should do it because it's what your parents want. You should do it because you are a Christian. You should do it because it hinders your witness. If you want the world to like you, the long hair will be fine.

1.why not?
2. Its God's opinion that if we have long hair we wont have good wives or be sucessful in business???????
3.
-where does it say we should cut our hair?
-who are my parents?????/ who are parents????
-? because im a christian?????? what? ......???????????????/
-how does it hinder my witness????
- i thought you said the world liked short hair?

[TwinCrier]

1) because the Holy Spirit doesn't instruct people to go against God's word.
2) It's God's opinion that "if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him" Why should a Christian shame themselves?
3)
- That's how you get short hair, you cut it.
- I don't know who your parents are. Don't you know?
- Yeah, Christians by definition follow Christ.
- It hinders your witness to look like an orphan instead of a child of God.
-The business world perhaps.

[Sword-In-Hand]

- It hinders your witness to look like an orphan instead of a child of God. .

Twin I like you, which is why I've refrained from saying more than I probably should, but c'mon. A Christian making that kind of comment is utterly ridiculous. If that's the criteria, then still there is nothing wrong with long hair as long as it's not mingled with tattered clothing and various odors. To me that is an insult to both an orphan and a child of God. Craziness.

Like I've said before and this is in the same verse, everyone read what it says..."judge for yourselves." That's scripture and many people want to overlook it because it doesn't fit their definition of appropriate.

I continue to get more disappointed with this blatant finger pointing and stereotyping.

[Flynmonkie]

I continue to get more disappointed with this blatant finger pointing and stereotyping.

Me tooo! No, I am A LOT disappointed. :sigh: We are shown those whom KNOW better are beaten with many stripes. The best way to combat it is to show you approved. Rightly dividing the word. That is all you can do. I commend you for the things in this forum I see you doing -Gods work-. And I am sure you do just as well in your everyday life. There will always be naysayers out there. It is unfortunate that it has to come from fellow Christians too. We have enough spiritual warfare and discouragement on our plate as it is. You would think Christians would not want to be a part of it. But God has a way of getting around to humbling... ;) Speaking from much experience there!

God loves each and every one of our individuality. Like I said before, if men were never to have long hair – He is perfect – that is how he would have made you. :thumbsup:

[Flynmonkie]

1) because the Holy Spirit doesn't instruct people to go against God's word.
2) It's God's opinion that "if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him" Why should a Christian shame themselves?

Twin do you realize how legalistic this is? How can you honestly say something so horrible - I truly think you believe this. This saddens me. Because it shows me that you have a ways to go in devolping a REAL relationship with God. And it angers me that you could cause a stumbling block to another Christian in that capacity. Shame on you. I have the same KJV as you and it is very clear. I encourage you to study this more. But I am not going to sit by and have you cause confusion on this without saying something. Many of the Christians I know do not believe this, and yes we are Christians. Even if you don't think so.

[ArchangelGabriel]

1) because the Holy Spirit doesn't instruct people to go against God's word.
2) It's God's opinion that "if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him" Why should a Christian shame themselves?
3)
- That's how you get short hair, you cut it.
- I don't know who your parents are. Don't you know?
- Yeah, Christians by definition follow Christ.
- It hinders your witness to look like an orphan instead of a child of God.
-The business world perhaps.

1) Ok so your saying the Holy Spirit doesnt tell you not to obey itself hmm ok rrriiigght ....?whats your point? he never told you anything about, that by letting someone feel that having long hair is fine is a bad thing
2)if thats his opinion, thats still makes it YOUR opinion that not cutting your hair is wrong and that his opnion means something to do with length i suppose (so btw in your opinion since its your OPINION thats this all comes from what length is short hair?)

3)
-it doesnt say we shouldnt have short hair though it says we shouldnt have long hair if your hair is down to your shoulders but the guy next to you has hair down to his knee which one has long hair IN THAT COMPARISON???? greatness of length can only be deemed by the persons fellow people
like i said before, in that case if "long hair" is bad that would mean you can have hair that will go down to your ankles but you must keep it all higher than a person with short hair has his, then it too will be short hair but that would make it a varible of style not of actual length so how is it that you can say it is of length if in both cases its of style?
-hmm i seem to recall asking "who are parents" whats that have to do with MY parents?
-OK? the only point i think you could be making there is that maybe we are supposed to be JUST like christ in that if he has short hair we are supposed to also? so if thats your point (if not please explain) then why not we all where robes, ...sandles?... why get flu vacines, he didnt
-HMMMM it hinders my witness to look like an orphan instead of a child of God. when indeed the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God came into this world as a naked, dirty, crying, homeless, poor, helpless, pityful, baby who was born in a pig sty ... and horse/goat/cattle/etc.
I wonder why he didnt come as a King and be rich and powerful, but wait it really doesnt matter even though he wasnt the most "sucessful" person he still witnessed to thousands and was our savior
- im sorry but was or was not the comment made that men with long hair do not get very good spouses and are not sucessful in business????
and were you not backing that up by opposing my reply to that?

[ArchangelGabriel]

Twin do you realize how legalistic this is? How can you honestly say something so horrible - I truly think you believe this. This saddens me. Because it shows me that you have a ways to go in devolping a REAL relationship with God. And it angers me that you could cause a stumbling block to another Christian in that capacity. Shame on you. I have the same KJV as you and it is very clear. I encourage you to study this more. But I am not going to sit by and have you cause confusion on this without saying something. Many of the Christians I know do not believe this, and yes we are Christians. Even if you don't think so.

even though i agree with you and i dont think being "legalistic" is the best way to interpret the bible
for purposes of debate/discussion and for her point in the discussion she i guess can use that to bring across her point
but thanx for the last 2 sentences

[ArchangelGabriel]

Jesus likes me, and anyone else that has long hair...as a matter of fact, Jesus loves me this I know...

The ONLY reason this person should get a haircut is because his parents desire it to be so and he is under their roof. The scripture says judge for yourselves.

And I ask this honestly. To the lost world, what makes a better witness, a well dressed man who most lost people would automatically assume they were judging them or someone who came down to their level? I've had more witnessing opportunities because of my hair than I ever did when I was "clean cut". To me, thinking that only trimmed, shaved, suited men can have proper job placement and proper mates, apparently, is conforming to the world and certainly not God. Paul said he became all things to all men so some might be saved. I must not fit the mold here, because I hold leadership positions both in jobs and in church and my wife is the most godly woman I know.

It is not a sin to have long hair for a man. It is a sin to be disobedient to parents.

well how do you define parents??????
and at what age should one stop obeying his parents?
if my mom truely wanted me to get a hair cut and i didnt see any direct conflict with God about it i would wheather i be 8 or 42

[ArchangelGabriel]

Very good, I agree. Your testimony is something that comes from your heart and your heart alone. But we are commanded to honor our mother and father, so while in their home you should honor their feelings.

while in their home?
so its only the home and the items provided by them that calls for such respect?

[RED that's ME]

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[ArchangelGabriel]

is there anyone in particular, everyone, or will we just know if its us?
(if this is adressed to me then i didnt mean this question in a bad way)

[Sword-In-Hand]

well how do you define parents??????
and at what age should one stop obeying his parents?
if my mom truely wanted me to get a hair cut and i didnt see any direct conflict with God about it i would wheather i be 8 or 42

I define parents as the people who brought a person into this world, provide for them with things such as a home, food, clothing and many other things. Even adopting parents fit this mold. A parent is someone who cares for you and your well being.

You are under their authority until you decide to step out and live your life as an independent person. In my opinion, if you are under their roof, even though you may be 20 years old, you should still follow their rules. In Ephesians it speaks of obeying your parents so your years will be long. So in essence, scripture is saying, obey your parents, have a longer, fuller life.

Ok, let me explain it like this. If my eight year old said he wasn't going to get a haircut, despite the fact I wanted him to, he would still get a haircut, because it would be disobedient otherwise. The parent-child relationship is the same as the Christ-child relationship. If we don't obey the rules, then we are walking a disobedient path and with that comes consequences. On the other hand if my 42 year old son didn't want to get a haircut, then that is his choice. It's all a matter of maturity.

[ArchangelGabriel]

I define parents as the people who brought a person into this world, provide for them with things such as a home, food, clothing and many other things. Even adopting parents fit this mold. A parent is someone who cares for you and your well being.

You are under their authority until you decide to step out and live your life as an independent person. In my opinion, if you are under their roof, even though you may be 20 years old, you should still follow their rules. In Ephesians it speaks of obeying your parents so your years will be long. So in essence, scripture is saying, obey your parents, have a longer, fuller life.

Ok, let me explain it like this. If my eight year old said he wasn't going to get a haircut, despite the fact I wanted him to, he would still get a haircut, because it would be disobedient otherwise. The parent-child relationship is the same as the Christ-child relationship. If we don't obey the rules, then we are walking a disobedient path and with that comes consequences. On the other hand if my 42 year old son didn't want to get a haircut, then that is his choice. It's all a matter of maturity.

well then ALOT of people are your parents

>?

what if your "father" tells you npot to get a haircut but your "mother" wants you too

[satrunstar]

Well not really, but I believe that women are supposed to have long hair and men were ment to be clean cut or shorter length hair.

[Crazy Liz]

well then ALOT of people are your parents

>?

what if your "father" tells you npot to get a haircut but your "mother" wants you too
You're having fun playing with everyone, aren't you? :P

[ArchangelGabriel]

Well not really, but I believe that women are supposed to have long hair and men were ment to be clean cut or shorter length hair.
clean cut=?
shorter length hair = so as long as we have women who have longer hair we are okay?

[ArchangelGabriel]

You're having fun playing with everyone, aren't you? :P

-yes;)
- but there is legitiment curiousity in there too
like my step-dad, am i to consider him a father?

would maturity be when you intelligent enough to know you own best interest?
if so then how do you know when you parents have your best interest?

[Crazy Liz]

-yes;)
- but there is legitiment curiousity in there too
like my step-dad, am i to consider him a father?

I think you should respect him.

would maturity be when you intelligent enough to know you own best interest?

Are you sure you know your own best interest? Really?

I, personally, think "best interests" are rarely simple. I've dealt with the family law system for enough years to know how many different opinions there can be on a person's best interests.

I think it has little or nothing to do with knowing your best interests. I think it has to do with showing respect to those who provide for your needs.

Now, in my opinion, parents should give their children opportunities to make their own decisions and their own mistakes long before they are old enough to be independent, so they will be ready for independence. But if parents require their kids to cut their hair as long as they live at home, and can 't be persuaded otherwise, a haircut is just a matter of respect.

if so then how do you know when you parents have your best interest?

It usually doesn't matter. As long they're not hurting you, they are entitled to make some mistakes in choosing between best and second best.

[ArchangelGabriel]

tell you more tomorrow

[carmi]

hi guys,
i have been arguing with my parents about having long hair (actually not really long just "somewhat long" haha) but they keep on saying that it's not good for my testimony (and all this other stuff about how God wanted for men to have short hair and women to have long hair) and i am always having to keep it short. and then i say to them that a testimony is a very relative thing depending on what you believe in, but they dont budge (and i also feel they dont really listen to what i have to say) and insist that it would leave a bad image of me especially since our church is such a conservative one. but i wanted to know what you all thought and maybe if you were in my shoes and you were tired of the same short haircut and style what would you say to your parents??

thanks...:)

I can understand being tired of having the same short haircut and I can understand being tired of hearing always the same - in your example "keep your hair short".

I am not saying it is right - neither for your parents or anybody else to judge a person by outside appearance (including the hair). But your parents are right in saying that long hair could hurt your testimony. Especially if you are going to a conservative church. The conservative view is short hair for men / boys.

And it is very likely that some members of your church will question your testimony, your obedience to God, following the Bible because of the length of your hair.

But - you are not the only one in your family going to that church. Your parents are going there as well. And if the church you and your parents are going to is conservative, it is very likely that your parents' testimony could get hurt as well because of your hair.

I went to a conservative church and I do remember all the talk about parents who, well, let their kids get away with a few things. That talk was mostly behind the parents' back but still I believe people can feel that others talk about them. At least that is what I guess from the way parents would justify them, their kids and why they allow their kids do certain things that - according to the conservative view - they should not be doing. But I also recall occasions where a pastor or other prominent member of the church would address the matter openly (not in front of everybody else) but they would talk to the parents about their kids and advise them not to allow this or that.

It is not only a matter of obedience but also a matter of honor - and the commandment says "honor your father and mother" ...

Should parents stand up for their kids and stand by them? I'd say yes.

And I don't believe that it is always good to give in to peer pressure. And it might be that your parents don't want to give into peer pressure (in your case pressure or questions about their parental skills, duty as parents, bringing up their child according to God's will and commandments) ... but basically if you want to go ahead with letting your hair grow (while still a child, living with your parents), you'd more or less force them (it's a strong word - can't think of any other at the moment).

Your parents could face embarrassment, even humiliation, because others might thing they don't bring you up according to God's will, they don't raise you as they are supposed to (according to the conservative way). They'd have to bear it ... more than you because presently you are a child, a minor (if you excuse that word) and they are the adults, those that are responsible for you.

Your parents could be tired one day of having to hear always the same remarks about your hair (and they'd be aware of that talk, people have a way with this ... if not directly, then indirectly).

Your parents are willing and ready to pay the price for the hair cut.

But can you ask them to pay the price for a change in hair cut?

See, it is one thing to have to face the music for what you did or a decision you make ... but it is quite another having to face the music for what someone else does or a decision another person did. It is very difficult to manoeuver without hurting / offending anybody:

on one side there is an instinct to defend / side with the one you care/love (and parents usually do care about and love their children) but on the other hand they might have to oppose if not all than many members of your church. They might not get unchurched but they might not feel so happy anymore to go to church and fellowship because they feel so uncomfortable.

[Sword-In-Hand]

well then ALOT of people are your parents

>?

what if your "father" tells you npot to get a haircut but your "mother" wants you too

Look I'm trying to be supportive, but if you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing because you don't like what your parents are telling you, then I have nothing else to say.

If you want a proper definition what a parent is, go to www.websters.com (http://www.websters.com).

[TwinCrier]

The bible is pretty clear on the subject. If a person holds an opinion different from the bible I'm going to have to side with the word of God on the subject. There is much in the bible that is unclear, but this subject is addressed in no uncertain terms.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

It is a shame indeed. :(

[TwinCrier]

Twin do you realize how legalistic this is? How can you honestly say something so horrible - I truly think you believe this. This saddens me. Because it shows me that you have a ways to go in devolping a REAL relationship with God. And it angers me that you could cause a stumbling block to another Christian in that capacity. Shame on you. I have the same KJV as you and it is very clear. I encourage you to study this more. But I am not going to sit by and have you cause confusion on this without saying something. Many of the Christians I know do not believe this, and yes we are Christians. Even if you don't think so.Anytime you would like to share a verse from the bible to show me the error of my ways, feel free. I know what the bible says on the subject. It's not much, but it's very clear.
1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
That is what the bible says. No everyone like what the bible says. It's not legalistic to follow the bible. It is not my opinion that men should have short hair, it's clearly stated right there in that verse. Opinion would be "I like men with long hair" or " I think long hair is cool dude." See the difference?

[Sword-In-Hand]

Anytime you would like to share a verse from the bible to show me the error of my ways, feel free. I know what the bible says on the subject. It's not much, but it's very clear.
1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
That is what the bible says. No everyone like what the bible says. It's not legalistic to follow the bible. It is not my opinion that men should have short hair, it's clearly stated right there in that verse. Opinion would be "I like men with long hair" or " I think long hair is cool dude." See the difference?

Ugh....

How about we all go back a verse, say for instance the verse that I've mentioned about four times ;) . Verse 13 IS in the Bible the same as verse 14 and I see no reason why 14 is more important than 13. It isn't and there is context to be looked at here. If verse 14 stood alone and the first part of 13 (judge for yourselves) was not mentioned in the Bible, then yes long hair on a man would be wrong. But we are to judge for ourselves. You judge that it's wrong, I judge that its right, and praise be to God we are able, through scripture, to settle on that difference.


Ok, I've beat my head against the wall again and now I'm knocked out....1..2...3...

[jochanaan]

...But your parents are right in saying that long hair could hurt your testimony...
I recognize what you're saying, but my inner hippie rebels at it. Are we supposed to judge on appearances? Or by the heart? (I Samuel 16:7)

(Full disclosure: I have long hair and a full beard. My church accepts it, although some individual members prefer me otherwise.)

[carmi]

I recognize what you're saying, but my inner hippie rebels at it. Are we supposed to judge on appearances? Or by the heart? (I Samuel 16:7)



By the heart - that would be my answer.

I realize I did not explain myself very well - especially the sentence you quoted.

I should have written: your parents are guessing / assuming / supposing right (as in correctly) that your testimony could get hurt.

Whether it is right or wrong ... it is still a rather common practice to judge a person based on outside appearances.

[Crazy Liz]

Anytime you would like to share a verse from the bible to show me the error of my ways, feel free. I know what the bible says on the subject. It's not much, but it's very clear.
1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
That is what the bible says. No everyone like what the bible says. It's not legalistic to follow the bible. It is not my opinion that men should have short hair, it's clearly stated right there in that verse. Opinion would be "I like men with long hair" or " I think long hair is cool dude." See the difference?
We've had quite a few discussions about the first half of 1 Corinthians 11 before. I can't remember the position you took on women's hairstyles. I've posted my view of 1 Cor. 11 several times, and what I've said about women's hairstyles would apply equally to men's.

[ArchangelGabriel]

I can understand being tired of having the same short haircut and I can understand being tired of hearing always the same - in your example "keep your hair short".

I am not saying it is right - neither for your parents or anybody else to judge a person by outside appearance (including the hair). But your parents are right in saying that long hair could hurt your testimony. Especially if you are going to a conservative church. The conservative view is short hair for men / boys.

And it is very likely that some members of your church will question your testimony, your obedience to God, following the Bible because of the length of your hair.

But - you are not the only one in your family going to that church. Your parents are going there as well. And if the church you and your parents are going to is conservative, it is very likely that your parents' testimony could get hurt as well because of your hair.

I went to a conservative church and I do remember all the talk about parents who, well, let their kids get away with a few things. That talk was mostly behind the parents' back but still I believe people can feel that others talk about them. At least that is what I guess from the way parents would justify them, their kids and why they allow their kids do certain things that - according to the conservative view - they should not be doing. But I also recall occasions where a pastor or other prominent member of the church would address the matter openly (not in front of everybody else) but they would talk to the parents about their kids and advise them not to allow this or that.

It is not only a matter of obedience but also a matter of honor - and the commandment says "honor your father and mother" ...

Should parents stand up for their kids and stand by them? I'd say yes.

And I don't believe that it is always good to give in to peer pressure. And it might be that your parents don't want to give into peer pressure (in your case pressure or questions about their parental skills, duty as parents, bringing up their child according to God's will and commandments) ... but basically if you want to go ahead with letting your hair grow (while still a child, living with your parents), you'd more or less force them (it's a strong word - can't think of any other at the moment).

Your parents could face embarrassment, even humiliation, because others might thing they don't bring you up according to God's will, they don't raise you as they are supposed to (according to the conservative way). They'd have to bear it ... more than you because presently you are a child, a minor (if you excuse that word) and they are the adults, those that are responsible for you.

Your parents could be tired one day of having to hear always the same remarks about your hair (and they'd be aware of that talk, people have a way with this ... if not directly, then indirectly).

Your parents are willing and ready to pay the price for the hair cut.

But can you ask them to pay the price for a change in hair cut?

See, it is one thing to have to face the music for what you did or a decision you make ... but it is quite another having to face the music for what someone else does or a decision another person did. It is very difficult to manoeuver without hurting / offending anybody:

on one side there is an instinct to defend / side with the one you care/love (and parents usually do care about and love their children) but on the other hand they might have to oppose if not all than many members of your church. They might not get unchurched but they might not feel so happy anymore to go to church and fellowship because they feel so uncomfortable.

im sorry but if another christian looks down on some ones testimony becasue of his out ward appearence then its not that person that there looking down on that has the hurt testimony its the ones judgeing him by his looks

[ArchangelGabriel]

Look I'm trying to be supportive, but if you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing because you don't like what your parents are telling you, then I have nothing else to say.

If you want a proper definition what a parent is, go to www.websters.com. (http://www.websters.com.)

i wasnt argueing, how was i argueing?
i like my mother i enjoy following what she tells me
just because i want to know who all i should be considering as a parent and in that who i should be honoring doesnt mean i was trying to be of ill spirit
seriously who is to be held higher your mother of father?

[ArchangelGabriel]

The bible is pretty clear on the subject. If a person holds an opinion different from the bible I'm going to have to side with the word of God on the subject. There is much in the bible that is unclear, but this subject is addressed in no uncertain terms.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

It is a shame indeed. :(
I KNOW WHAT IT SAYS thats why i asked
how short is short hair?
---knee length
---waist length
---shoulder lentgh
---chin...
---ear...
---none?
wouldnt if all your hair is above that "short hair" point mean its short hair?
and why since long hair (so far) cant be defined is it not considered to be spaeking of a style instead of length in general

[ArchangelGabriel]

By the heart - that would be my answer.

I realize I did not explain myself very well - especially the sentence you quoted.

I should have written: your parents are guessing / assuming / supposing right (as in correctly) that your testimony could get hurt.

Whether it is right or wrong ... it is still a rather common practice to judge a person based on outside appearances.

and in that it GOES BOTH WAYS what if there is a tribe of africans that you want to witness too since the arent part of civilization but since they live out doors and dont see need for hair cuts believe that only evil sprits(or w/e) have short hair, do you think they would listen to a regular person or a evil spirit?

[ArchangelGabriel]

Anytime you would like to share a verse from the bible to show me the error of my ways, feel free. I know what the bible says on the subject. It's not much, but it's very clear.
1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
That is what the bible says. No everyone like what the bible says. It's not legalistic to follow the bible. It is not my opinion that men should have short hair, it's clearly stated right there in that verse. Opinion would be "I like men with long hair" or " I think long hair is cool dude." See the difference?

yes i see the difference and since youve been saying that "i think that since the bible says no "long hair" men should get there hair cut" isnt that a opinion by your own defintion.

lets supose your right in your opinion
then ok i give ill get my hair cut ill chop off 3 feet so it only bounces of my thighs
wouldnt that be short hair?
(its not really that much right now)

[Flynmonkie]

Anytime you would like to share a verse from the bible to show me the error of my ways, feel free. I know what the bible says on the subject. It's not much, but it's very clear.
1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
That is what the bible says. No everyone like what the bible says. It's not legalistic to follow the bible. It is not my opinion that men should have short hair, it's clearly stated right there in that verse. Opinion would be "I like men with long hair" or " I think long hair is cool dude." See the difference?
IF that is what the bible is saying, but it is not. It is your personal interpretation of it without taking time to really look at this verse in context. I have shown you on post #54 I will quote it:

God does not care if your hair is short of long. It DOES NOT MATTER.
Do you think all Christians should have short military type hairstyles? UGH!
<snip>
People have brought up the Corinthian verses but they never pay attention to v16!
1 Corinthians 11:15-16 KJV!!
16But if any man seem to be contentious[argue], we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
[.]


We (Christians) have NO such custom as Christians. Neither do the Churchs of God!

Again, Gentiles trying to go back and be jewish! Stop!

contententious = fond of strife, argue

Custom - See John 18:35 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?


Churches of God:
Companion Bible KJV 1611 1886 appendex 186
186. CHURCH (Gr. EKKLESIA).

The Greek word ekklesia means assembly, or a gathering of called-out ones. It is used seventy times in the Septuagint for the Hebrew kahal (from which latter we have our word call), rendered in Sept. by sunagoge and ekklesia. (*1) This latter word occ. in N.T. 115 times (36 in plural), and is always transl. "church" except in Acts 19:32, 39, 41 (assembly).

kahal is used (1) of Israel as a People called out from the rest of the nations (Gen. 28:3); (2) of the tribal council of Simeon and Levi, those called out from each tribe (Gen. 49:6); (3) of an assembly of Israelites called out for worship or any other purpose (Deut. 18:16; 31:30. Josh. 8:35. Judg. 21:8); (4) any assembly of worshippers as a congregation (Ps. 22:22, 25. Ekklesia in Matt. 16:18; 18:17. 1Cor. 14:19, 35, &c.); (5) the equivalent ekklesia of separate assemblies in different localities (Acts 5:11; 8:3. 1Cor. 4:17, &c.); (6) of the guild or "union" of Ephesian craftsmen (Acts 19:32, 41), and v. 39 (the lawful assembly). Finally, the special Pauline usage of ekklesia differs from all these. Other assemblies consisted of called-out ones from Jews, or from Gentiles (Acts 18:22), but this new body is of called-out ones from both.

Our word "church" (*2) has an equally varied usage. It is used (1) of any congregation; (2) of a particular church (England, or Rome, &c); (3) of the ministry of a church; (4) of the building in which the congregation assembles; (5) of Church as distinct from Chapel; (6) of the church as distinct from the world, and lastly, it is used in the Pauline sense, of the body of Christ.

It is of profound importance to distinguish the usage of the word in each case, else we may be reading "the church which was in the wilderness" into the Prison Epistles, although we are expressly told that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the "church which is His body". And when our Lord said "On this rock I will build my church" (Matt. 16:18), those who heard His words could not connect them with the "mystery" which was "hid in God" and had not then been made known to the sons of men. Confusion follows our reading what refers to Israel in the past or the future into the present dispensation. Readers are referred to the various notes in the connexions.


The word where qualified by other terms occurs thus: --


Church of God; Acts 20:28. 1Cor. 1:2; 10:32; 11:16 (pl.), 22; 15:9. 2Cor. 1:1. Gal. 1:13. 1Thess. 2:14 (pl.). 2Thess. 1:4 (pl). 1Tim. 3:5, 15 (c. of the living God).
Churches of Christ; Rom. 16:16.
Church in .. house; Rom. 16:5. 1Cor. 16:19. Col. 4:15. Philem. 2.
Churches of the Gentiles; Rom. 16:4.
Churches of Galatia; 1Cor. 16:1. Gal. 1:2. Of Asia; 1Cor. 16:19. Of Macedonia; 2Cor. 8:1. Of Judaea; Gal. 1:22. Of the Laodiceans; Col. 4:16. Of the Thessalonians; 1Thess. 1:1; 2Thess .1:1.
Church of the firstborn (pl); Heb. 12:23.
Church in Ephesus, Smyrna, &c. Rev. 2 and 3; and
Churches; Rev. 22:16.

Side note here – I am still not advocating going against parents. But I am saying that this is not our custom. Hair length requirements to be a good Christian. This makes not only Biblical sense, but also Christian sense.

[JPPT1974]

Jesus and Paul had long hair.
Also they had beards as well.
That was in those days that they had long hair and beards.
Things and times have change you know.

[carmi]

im sorry but if another christian looks down on some ones testimony becasue of his out ward appearence then its not that person that there looking down on that has the hurt testimony its the ones judgeing him by his looks

If you read my post again, you will see that I was referring to how others might think, see. I nowhere said that I agree with judging others by outside appearances.

I was trying to tell the op possible reasons his parents might want him to keep his hair short. And I was trying to tell the op how others might view him ...

I am not advocating being a people pleaser. All I can do is point out possible consequences and reactions. That does not mean I do agree with the reaction or say people are right in reacting that way.

It does not help the op, imo, to discuss how others should or should not judge or view a person. From my personal experience I can only say I thought it's cool to be the odd ball, be different. Until I went ahead and found out it is not cool, it can get rather heated.

[ArchangelGabriel]

If you read my post again, you will see that I was referring to how others might think, see.