Harassed by classmates - what to do?

[Lukesmama]

We've moved from North Dakota to a predominantly Jewish suburb in New Jersey.

On the school bus a week ago, one boy said to my 13-year-old son Luke, so, you're not Jewish??

No, he said. I'm Christian.

Oh, the other boy said, so I guess you think I'm going to hell?

Well, Luke said, we believe that if you don't accept Jesus as your lord and savior, then, well, that's what happens, yes.

Then the boy and a whole crowd of others started pointing at my son and calling him anti-Semitic. Now he's being harassed and taunted, being called a Jew-hater.

I tried to post this question on the Jews for Jesus board, but it lookslike their moderator isn't going to post it.

Please, please, help me help him!!!

Kris in NJ
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/edit.gif (editpost.php?do=editpost&p=19173836)

[visionary]

Sorry, it happened. Even if your child was Messianic, chances are the children would still harras him for being goyin. The most your child can do, is say that he supports Israel in it's right to exist. Thus changing the evironment from religious to political, which may be common ground.

[DavidHaCohen]

I'm not touching the theology side of the question, since I'm only a guest here, but honestly, what did your son expect?

He told a Jewish boy he'd go to hell for, well, being Jewish (i.e. not accepting Jesus). Even if he is right, did he expect those kids to say 'ok, cool'?

The right thing to do is to apologize to them and to tell them the truth: that he is sorry for being judgmental, and that only G-d can judge whether one will go to hell or not.

Even if the criteria will be faith in Jesus or not, like I said I'm not touching theology here, isn't it true that it will be G-d and G-d alone who will judge and ultimately decide who goes to hell? I think all religions agree with that.

After apologizing, then he could make a good impression by saying that he supports Israel, since the whole world these days is siding with the "palestinians".

Dave

We've moved from North Dakota to a predominantly Jewish suburb in New Jersey.

On the school bus a week ago, one boy said to my 13-year-old son Luke, so, you're not Jewish??

No, he said. I'm Christian.

Oh, the other boy said, so I guess you think I'm going to hell?

Well, Luke said, we believe that if you don't accept Jesus as your lord and savior, then, well, that's what happens, yes.

Then the boy and a whole crowd of others started pointing at my son and calling him anti-Semitic. Now he's being harassed and taunted, being called a Jew-hater.

I tried to post this question on the Jews for Jesus board, but it lookslike their moderator isn't going to post it.

Please, please, help me help him!!!

Kris in NJ
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/edit.gif (editpost.php?do=editpost&p=19173836)

[Lukesmama]

seems to me it's the boys who owe my son an apology for ganging up on him, taunting him and labeling him a "Jew hater" when his best friend here is Jewish. there's strength in numbers, that's for sure.

[DavidHaCohen]

Maybe they do, but doesn't he owe them an apology for implying they'd go to hell for being Jewish? Maybe that's not what he meant to say, but that's what he ended up implying. Don't all Bible-believing religions say that G-d alone is judge?


seems to me it's the boys who owe my son an apology for ganging up on him, taunting him and labeling him a "Jew hater" when his best friend here is Jewish. there's strength in numbers, that's for sure.

[Tishri1]

My Daughter was told she was going to HELL and chased 2 blocks for saying she was Jewish and that was why she didn't celebrate Christmas but celebrated Jesus' birthday on the Jewish Holiday Sukkot....It didn't matter that they knew she loved Jesus ...they were going to kick her butt for being Jewish and Not caring about Christmas...who teaches this junk to kids anyway... the :sigh:poor thing was terrified!

[DavidHaCohen]

Wasn't Jesus Jewish? Would they have beaten him up too? :doh:

I don't mean this as an offense to anyone, but here where I live, most Jews are terrified of Christians. Terrified! And that's because several (so-called) Christians hurl insults at them and try to convert them at all costs with threats of going to hell. We're considered a somewhat inferior people because we "killed Christ". I'm not Christian, but I always thought he preached love and tolerance, not violence and hell threats. :sigh:

My Daughter was told she was going to HELL and chased 2 blocks for saying she was Jewish and that was why she didn't celebrate Christmas but celebrated Jesus' birthday on the Jewish Holiday Sukkot....It didn't matter that they knew she loved Jesus ...they were going to kick her butt for being Jewish and Not caring about Christmas...who teaches this junk to kids anyway... the :sigh:poor thing was terrified!

[Wags]

We've moved from North Dakota to a predominantly Jewish suburb in New Jersey.

On the school bus a week ago, one boy said to my 13-year-old son Luke, so, you're not Jewish??

No, he said. I'm Christian.

Oh, the other boy said, so I guess you think I'm going to hell?

Well, Luke said, we believe that if you don't accept Jesus as your lord and savior, then, well, that's what happens, yes.

Then the boy and a whole crowd of others started pointing at my son and calling him anti-Semitic. Now he's being harassed and taunted, being called a Jew-hater.

I tried to post this question on the Jews for Jesus board, but it lookslike their moderator isn't going to post it.

Please, please, help me help him!!!

Kris in NJ
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/edit.gif (http://editpost.php?do=editpost&p=19173836)

It happened on the school bus, and the behavior should have been stopped by the bus driver. Since it wasn't report it to the school authorities. I don't care who was taunting who, it is not supposed to happen on school property period.

[Lukesmama]

Good heavens, reactionary rhetoric doesn't solve anything.

If you will read a little more carefully less defensively, my child was CAREFUL to say that what WE BELIEVE is that IF someone does not have Jesus as lord and savior, yes, that person will be without eternal life.

I came here looking for peace and help and had no idea I was coming to the wrong place.

My child did NOT condemn Jews or anyone else. Everyone has the same invitation to the table -- you need only answer the call.

[Vaneeza Malkah]

Wasn't Jesus Jewish? Would they have beaten him up too? :doh:

I don't mean this as an offense to anyone, but here where I live, most Jews are terrified of Christians. Terrified! And that's because several (so-called) Christians hurl insults at them and try to convert them at all costs with threats of going to hell. We're considered a somewhat inferior people because we "killed Christ". I'm not Christian, but I always thought he preached love and tolerance, not violence and hell threats. :sigh:

There's no doubt your situation is sad and one a person can sympathize with, but don't you think that whoever is doing the wrong is guilty of doing wrong? There is one girl in our congregation that goes to a mostly jewish school and her friends think it's "cool" that she's messianic. I think everybody's experiences are different. I doubt the parents of those boys would approve of them baiting a christian boy into telling them something they already knew about christians and then teasing him for it.

[DavidHaCohen]

You're absolutely right Wags, but since it has happened and those kids will have to spend a lot of time together, is it not a good idea to seek shalom?

I'm just trying to help by sharing with you that us Jews are quite sensitive to certain comments: 2K years of persecution, discrimination and hell-threats can have that effect on people. If one understands that, then perhaps one can understand why sometimes we seem to overreact.

Anyway, I sense an excellent opportunity for the boy's mom to call the other moms and gather everyone together to seek understanding. But understanding will not take place if one is saying the other will go to hell.

Dave

It happened on the school bus, and the behavior should have been stopped by the bus driver. Since it wasn't report it to the school authorities. I don't care who was taunting who, it is not supposed to happen on school property period.

[DavidHaCohen]

Yes, there was baiting, I agree. Kids can be cruel, all of them, irrespective of religion. But the boy did have his share of guilt by buying into it and saying they would go to hell.

We Jews tend to focus on the problem, rather than on who's to blame. If the parents of the other kids came to ask for advice, I'd say apologize for baiting. My piece of advice was specific to the boy in question. Both sides are wrong, but someone has to break the ice, no?

Dave

I doubt the parents of those boys would approve of them baiting a christian boy into telling them something they already knew about christians and then teasing him for it.

[DavidHaCohen]

You seem to be watering down your initial telling of the story.
But let's face it, nobody, regardless of their religious background, likes to be told they will go to hell, or not inherit life, or whatever one may call it.

Besides, I still stand by my initial point: Isn't G-d alone the Judge?

Why don't you try to seek shalom and, if the others are unwilling to admit their mistakes, then that's between them and G-d. You'll know you've done your part.

Dave

Good heavens, reactionary rhetoric doesn't solve anything.

If you will read a little more carefully less defensively, my child was CAREFUL to say that what WE BELIEVE is that IF someone does not have Jesus as lord and savior, yes, that person will be without eternal life.

I came here looking for peace and help and had no idea I was coming to the wrong place.

My child did NOT condemn Jews or anyone else. Everyone has the same invitation to the table -- you need only answer the call.

[Vaneeza Malkah]

Yes, there was baiting, I agree. Kids can be cruel, all of them, irrespective of religion. But the boy did have his share of guilt by buying into it and saying they would go to hell.

We Jews tend to focus on the problem, rather than on who's to blame. If the parents of the other kids came to ask for advice, I'd say apologize for baiting. My piece of advice was specific to the boy in question. Both sides are wrong, but someone has to break the ice, no?

Dave

absolutely yes! but I doubt you would find a jew who apologizes for not believing in jesus, just as a christian would not apologize for thinking there are several ways to heaven (just stating the perspective). because that's what most are taught. The problem is alot more complex for most kids to comprehend. But yes, shalom (peace) is a desireable goal for the boys to reach.

[Bananna]

Yes God alone is judge. The extreme devisiveness of pretending to know who is going to hell based on a scripture taken out of context is horrid. It also pits Christians against Christians. I heard it growing up too. protestants against Catholic mostly.

It is a hard thing to apologize for our own irreverence when we were wronged first, however Christ teaches us to turn the other cheek, not seek justice. Seeking peace sometimes means taking others offenses on ourselves. Corporate confession so to speak. One can apologize for presuming upon God's authority and one can apologize for the cruelty of other fellow believers.

Personally I teach my kids to verbally bless others that are cruel to them. To a Jew it would seem apropriate to simply say, "may HaShem bless you ...." it usually helps focus people back on their own standing before God.

I'm not sure what kind of help you were seeking here, but that is my 2cents.
bananna

[P_G]

Lukesmamma

Perhaps you have come to the most right place!
What is needed here is for you to realize that now you are on the outside looking in.
There are HUGE cultural differances between a primarily Gentile community and a primarily Jewish community.

As a Christian we are taught that the most important thing we can do is to witness to the unsaved. But rarely are we taught the best ways to do such a thing. As a pastor I can tell you that a "Turn or Burn" message is rarely if ever accepted.

Like it or not and regardless of how gentle your son tried to put it what he said to those boys is "I am better than you" Thats what they heard. Now I know thats not what he meant nor what he wanted to say but that is what they heard. And because he is an "outsider" they were looking for a reason to hate him ANY reason and he gave them one.

Lesson learned the hard way I guess.

Now lets go to the scripture - Let your life so shine that it will draw all men to me.

This now is what your son must do. Shine. Be gracious and loving. The whole school is not going to love him tommrow. But by ones and twos they will be won perhaps he may be invited to a Bar Mitzphot and perhaps a friend or two might join him at your church for a special occasion. Its called bridge building. That is how hearts and minds are won to the L-rd.

Many here would say that I myself am not "Jewish" enough because I teach as I have suggested to you to have your son try. Gently - softly and slow but sure many are begining to understand where their faith started and where it must return to.


Question: How do you eat an elephant?
Answer: One forkful at a time!


Shalom

Pastor George

[Tishri1]

I think I highjacked this thread to your dishonor and I appoligise(sp) .Yes your boy has every right to be upset and shouldn't be ganged up on poor thing! I think you probably have enough background as to MAYBE why they reacted so horribly... the fact is no one should bully and scare little kids like that(that is actually what I was going for in my post) and I just want to know who is behind the bullying...it has to be the parents (IMO)! We have to teach our kids Love for everyone, and especially our brothers in Yeshua (not our brothers in "Christmas":sigh: ) and Yeshua was Jewish :wave: Good heavens, reactionary rhetoric doesn't solve anything.

If you will read a little more carefully less defensively, my child was CAREFUL to say that what WE BELIEVE is that IF someone does not have Jesus as lord and savior, yes, that person will be without eternal life.

I came here looking for peace and help and had no idea I was coming to the wrong place.

My child did NOT condemn Jews or anyone else. Everyone has the same invitation to the table -- you need only answer the call.

[Tishri1]

PS I pray you didn't feel "Ganged Up On":groupray:

[ILY]

Lukesmom,

Peace to you and G_d bless you and yours :wave: :pray:

I understand the plight somewhat of the situation, but you must understand why they reacted as they did, just as Christians act the same way.

We must understand that some who have called themselves Christians throughout time have been far less than kind to the Jews, i,e., the Nazis, and others who have as we all know treated them horrifically, and there is a history there, that putting it mildly put a bad taste in the mouths of Jews to Christians. Some of these Nazi's would go to church after taking part in the attrocities commit against the Jews as if they had done something righteous.



People throughout the ages have placed thenselves on the Throne of G_d and passed judgement on the Jews and labeled them as "Christ killers" and other things. I still see alot of this today in posts where people feel they can judge the Jews and others, saying "the Jews had their chance and blew it", yet wasn't Yeshua a Jew? Did He blow it? Wasn't it Jews who took Yeshua's message to the masses? We know the Bible tells us "there are none righteous, no not one" and all too often do we talk alot with little walk if you know what I mean.

Your son as many of us at one time probably was not prepared for the situation, and answered from what he believed and the Jews possibly acted out of what they too have been taught, and I just recommend patience in this to both sides as trust is earned and not easily given, especially since neither side really understands much of the other. Hopefully they will talk with each other and listen and learn, and will gain much from it. I imagine both sides will get out of it what they put into it, meaning once they get to know each other, and build a realtionship they will grow a great love and respect not only for each other, but for G_d, and strive to always glorify Him.

I know of several Jews who thought Christians by and large were only against the Jews, and sought to hurt them, and have learned the reverse is true, but there always has to be a growth process and it's give and take, and some really fanastic friendships have come about from the give and take, listen and learn from each side.

I'll pm you a link that may be helpful :)


G_d bless you and yours always :pray:

ILY

[Athanasian Creed]

(snip)

Even if the criteria will be faith in Jesus or not, like I said I'm not touching theology here, isn't it true that it will be G-d and G-d alone who will judge and ultimately decide who goes to hell? I think all religions agree with that.

(snip)




Since you asked this question more than once and didn't get a response, i'll answer it. Actually, Jesus said the Father has appointed Jesus as Judge over man -

John 5:26-29 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

The only question i'd ask of Luke is whether what he said was said in a spirit of humility and not one of pride or arrogance. What he said was the truth - ALL men, whether Jew or Gentile, MUST accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour -

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Ray :wave:

[Henaynei]

Good heavens, reactionary rhetoric doesn't solve anything.

If you will read a little more carefully less defensively, my child was CAREFUL to say that what WE BELIEVE is that IF someone does not have Jesus as lord and savior, yes, that person will be without eternal life.

I came here looking for peace and help and had no idea I was coming to the wrong place.

My child did NOT condemn Jews or anyone else. Everyone has the same invitation to the table -- you need only answer the call. fact is that your child was unwise and immature in his chosen response.

"G-d alone is the judge" vs "Yes, we believe those who don't accept Jesus are going to hell" - both equally correct - one builds relationships thus leaving the door open to actually discuss the issue with individuals in the future, the other verifies for a threatened group on their "turf" the stereotype of the Christian anti-Semite.

If I moved into an Islamic neighborhood I'd not tell a group on a bus that they worship a moon idol led by a schizophrenic pedophile. This would close doors and sear hearts from actually hearing the Truth.

We are called to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. I'm afraid you played a part in this yourself. A Christian Family moves into a Jewish neighborhood --- did you not arm yourselves with an understanding of the history of anti-semitism from a Jewish point of view?, did you sit down with your son and explain the pain and scars this history has left on the Jewish community?, did you explain that your calling to share the gospel is important and that the way to do that is to build relationships and show the gospel by the way you live and the choices you make in every situation, did you teach and explain sensitivity and a desire to understand rather than be understood? Or did you go in and send him in totally unprepared to interface with a foreign culture?

From my POV both sides might be due an apology - but are we not called to be the servants and to humble ourselves for His sake? So, encourage your son to do the hard thing - to humbly explain that he felt insecure and responded in an unthinking, judgemental and wrong manner - take the tack DavidHaCohen suggests and tell them that the bottom line is that G-d sets the rules and no man can judge the heart of another. This won't immediately undo the damage, but when his attitude and choices demonstrate that his outburst was the exception and not indicative of his heart, eventually he will start building relationships... due to this unfortunate start this process will probably take longer than it usually does when moving into a new community, but with patience, perseverance and a consistent loving humility he and you will eventually find those relationships.

Then set about teaching yourself and your family about the Christian history with the culture into which you have moved. A great place to start is a very good book called Our Hands Are Stained With Blood (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1560430680/103-8923741-4811001?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance) - after you have studied that come back and we will have some excellent reading to get an insight into the pulse and motivation of an observant Jewish community :)

in love and compassion for both sides...

b'Shalom
Henaynei

[Lukesmama]

absolute humility and nothing else. he did not tell these boys (one of whom strides up to him in school and says "B-TCH!" to him,my skinny, bespectacled good-hearted bookworm kid) THEY were going to hell -- I was proud of him for how he answered their query -- we believe that if you don't have Jesus as your lord and savior, yes, you'll be without eternal life. i don't see anything "watered down" about that.

luke grew up in north dakota, land of lutherans. he knows nothing of prejudice or hatred, but he's learned now since he's been served it by these lovely boys.

[Lukesmama]

and quite honestly, we had no idea we had moved into a predominantly Jewish community until Luke started getting Bar Mitzvah invitations (from the boys who apparently don't think he's anti-Semitic).

[Critias]

If you don't mind, this Lutheran [me] would like to add something. I think it might be best to forget who is at fault here and see what God can do with this.

If it hasn't become apparent, this has become a great oppportunity for you son, to show through his actions, his love for Yeshua. Let these boys call him names, let them do as they wish, for they will be judged for their actions. If your boy puts 'coals on their tongues' he will bless their lives and quite possibly open a chance to share Yeshua with some of them.

A different perspective might be in order. Look to what God can do with this situation and use your son to show Yeshua's love even for those who deny Him. It just might bring a single boy to knowledge of Yeshua, HeBan of El Shaddai. (did I say that right my Messianic friends?)

[Vaneeza Malkah]

Why do we see things so differently?

http://www.christianforums.com/t2222287-harassed-by-jewish-classmates-what-to-do.html

[Wags]

Why do we see things so differently?

http://www.christianforums.com/t2222287-harassed-by-jewish-classmates-what-to-do.html



I posted this on the Messianic board, and I feel pretty bruised now -- they're blaming Luke and saying he should apologize to the boys for saying he was "better" than them. Sheesh.

Apparently she can't tell the diffenence between a messanic and non-messianic icon.

[Henaynei]

I agreed with DavidHaCohen.... so I guess I'm guilty of bashing her as well....

it is very interesting that the only poster in that thread with a Jewish background came to the essentially same suggestion...

[DavidHaCohen]

I'm going to be bold here and even take the chance of breaking a few rules here, if I do, I apologize in advance and say that I understand whatever action the mod staff might need to take against my post, but my heart is very heavy after what I read in the mirror thread in the other forum.

You know, some of you younger kiddos might not have heard much about him, but there once live a great man in India called Mahatma Ghandi. This man once said a very famous sentence. He said: "I want your Christ, but not your Christians." It seems to me that some people at that thread think the ends justify the means. As long as the truth is spoken, people can say whatever they want, the way they want, and when they want. No matter if you hurt people's feelings, breaks their hearts, etc. Imagine if everyone lived by that premise. This kind of attitude does not match what I have read for myself about your faith.

Since truth is to be spoken regardless of people, why not start by saying the truth about the OP? It really seems to me that Luke's mom wasn't seeking for advice, but more interested in turning this into a "trial on the mean Jewish boys". Boys who are being judged without even telling their side of the story.

When I read the amazing things that your Christ wrote about loving G-d and your neighbor, about not judging others and extending them grace and compassion, and then I see threads such as that one, I get very confused. Please show me where in the Christian Bible your Christ ever encourages people to walk around passing judgment in his name, and then getting upset because others react to them being told they're going to hell.

I just wish more Christians were like some of the amazing people I have met here at this forum. But as long as this "Spanish Inquisition" kind of attitude exists in other places, most Jews will continue to want nothing to do with Christianity - not Christ, but Christianity. That's the difference Ghandi was talking about.

David

[Wags]

Good point David!

[Lukesmama]

In case any of you actually care what happened to my son, the boys who were threatening him (and yelling out that he "sucks d#ck" and various other unGodly comments) while he said nothing in return but simply kept his head down have all been called into the principal's office and warned; if anyone taunts him, threatens him (like the boys at lunch who were pounding their fists into their hands threatening to "beat the sh#t" out of the goyam" or some word I've never even heard before) or lays a hand on him again, suspension will follow.

Mr. Cohen, you seem unwilling to accept what exactly my son said to these boys -- I'm not sure why. He did NOT JUDGE, rather, stated the center of mainstream Christian theology. He said, "As Christians, we believe that if you don't accept Jesus as your savior, you'llbe without eternal life." Want to know where that comes from? John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish but have life everlasting. There is no human judging involved. It's black and white.

I find it hard to believe that these boys could actually be ignorant of basic Christian doctrine at their age.

I'm disappointed that when I came to you for help, you struck out at me (and my son). I wasn't looking for a theological debate; you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. Ask me a question, and like my son, I will answer it based on my faith and my devotion to my Lord and Savior, who, of course, was Jewish.

And a note on etiquette: Don't talk about someone as if she isn't even reading her own thread.

I wish you all farewell.

[insaneinthebrain]

I think I can safely say that this has become a big ol' mess. I'm going to close this before it gets worse.

As an aside, I will say that I'm sorry to hear what happened to your son. As someone that was also picked on on the bus for no specific reason, I know it ain't easy to deal with.

insaneinthebrain
Chief Moderator
Messianic Judaism Forum