Ramblings from a Lutheran in an evangelical world

[Bollman]

I am a Lutheran in the evangelical world.

Once my band was invited to play at a big Christian music festival with about a dozen other bands. At a planning meeting, when they asked me what church I was from, I heard whispers of distaste. “I thought we were inviting real Christians,” a little lady commented with a sour look on her face. I laughed it off. I make the occasional denominational joke like the most folks do. But I have since encountered this sentiment over and over.

This past fall I started taking graduate classes at a local 'Non-Denominational' Evangelical college. Through the entrance process I was upfront with the fact that I am Renewal Lutheran and after an interview where we shared our beliefs and found them mutually compatible, the Graduate Admissions board accepted me no problem. But now that I am in class I am finding hostility towards denominations other than the two or three that are predominate at this institution, not from the faculty or the materials covered in class. On the contrary, the text that I just finished for a Spirituality class sounded like it could be from a Lutheran seminary, but some of my fellow students continually make snide comments about other denominations. One man speaks about trying to 'save' his Presbyterian friend. He calls Liturgical churches LEGALISTS with such venom in his voice. And Catholics... you should hear the things they say about our Catholic brothers and sisters. I commented once about how while I don't agree with all of their practices, I know and have worshipped with many wonderful, God-fearing, spirit-filled Catholics. And the Catholic Church is SO active in missions all around the world. They are the hands and feet of Jesus in places that other churches are afraid to go. How can we dismiss all of the works they do in the name of Jesus Christ because of some theological differences? It makes me wonder if they believe their will be any saints in heaven before 1850???

Anyway, it’s funny. I consider myself Confessional and Evangelical, Catholic and Protestant, liturgical and post-modern, sacramental and charismatic. So while I can appreciate their beliefs, it does pain me to hear their distaste for mine.

This just doesn't happen to me. I was speaking with a lady from my church and she joined an adult bible study ran by some Baptists friends of hers. She encountered the same attitude. When she said she was Lutheran the other ladies gasped. She told me she is planning on writing a book from her experiences in the evangelical world called, Lutherans Go To Heaven Too or Its OK To Be A Lutheran.

Anyone else encountered any such encounters? Any advice on how to handle these sorts of attitudes? I feel like I am the ambassador for Lutheranism in a hostile world.

Bollman

[Melethiel]

I've never had such an encounter, but I would like to someday get in touch with my former Baptist megachurch people. I predict I would have a field day with them. :P

[ctay]

I've never actually had a problem with telling people I go to a Lutheran church. A couple of years ago, 2 ladies I know from the same denomination were talking to each other. One was tell the other one about a friend of hers going to this other denomination and she said she was telling her friend what was wrong with her church. Without even thinking I just turned around and said you shouldn't put other people's churchs down, that's not nice. I said it nicely, plus it came out without even thinking first. They don't say anything about any denomination around me anymore...

[IowaLutheran]

Wow. I guess living in Iowa, which has a high Scandanavian/German population, I have never run into this attitude since 1/2 the population is either Lutheran or Catholic.

Maybe your witness will eventually impress upon these holier than thou people.

[IowaLutheran]

After I posted my remark I looked at your profile, Bollman, and I was surprised to see you are not far from me (are you from Elk Horn Iowa or Elk Horn Nebraska?). I guessed that to see that kind of attitude that you were from the south or some other region where there are few Lutherans.

The only experience I've ever had close to yours is when, at Iowa State, I went to a few Campus Crusade for Christ meetings, and after after a meeting with one of the leaders and filling out a form, they said I am now a Christian and therefore saved. I thought to myself, that is a bunch of $&@, I've been a Christian since my baptism at 6 weeks old, which I affirmed at confirmation in the Lutheran church when I was 14! I stopped going after that.

[Bollman]

I am from Elk Horn, IA. Most good folks around this town are Lutherans. As my youth ministry expands to surrounding areas that are mostly CoC, Baptist, Assembly and E-free I run into this sentiment. Its too bad. I am one of those guys that enjoys a good evangelical worship service every now and then. Kind of like Chinese food. I don't want it everyday but for a change of pace its good.

Bollman

[Bollman]

I'll repost my personal story for those who don't remember....

I like to tell folks that six years ago the only thing I knew about Lutheranism was it had something to do with Martin Luther King.;) I was raised in a fundamentalist home. My mother is Pentecostal, my father went through Nazarene seminary and preaches at an evangelical church. I learned the lessons of the bible very early but the focus always seemed to be on what you CAN’T do instead of the power of the Gospel or the love of Jesus Christ.

After my thirteenth birthday my parents allowed me to decide which church I attended. I chose a little country Baptist church. There, during a salvation message, I asked Jesus to come into my heart as my Lord and Savior and was later baptized. That was really great and really monumental at the time… but after that water event, it seemed like the church didn’t offer anything to me as a young Christian. Week after week, more Salvation messages… and an occasional message about how as Christians we had to separate ourselves from the world. My faith never really grew beyond that original experience. I wanted more… and didn’t find it.

When I went to college, I found it easy to slip away from God in order to pursue my own interests. I still prayed, still feared God. But my focus changed. My will became more important than His will. I placed a barrier between us.

Years later, I found myself teaching art at a public school in western Iowa. In 2001, my students invited me to their Luther League’s Easter Walk, a dramatic step-by-step retracing of Jesus’ journey the days leading up to his crucifixion. The youth showed so much passion and faith, the light of the Lord shined right out of them. It touched me to have them… my students teaching me, ministering to me and touching my heart. I wanted to share in that. I started attending this Lutheran Church regularly. My faith began to grow again. I found a new freedom in this church, a freedom to be myself and enjoy the world that God created around me. I found a church that preached the Word of God and pushed me to take the Gospel to the street and help others, not to gain righteousness, but to show the awesome love of the Father. I loved the new member classes. I finally got the growth I had wanted ten years earlier. I felt like Mario after getting a mushroom. I was now a bigger Christian, equipped with tools that could help me on my walk to grow closer to Jesus. I became a leader of Luther League and I began chaperoning service projects and their weeklong mission trip during the summers. I had always been the teacher that everyone loved. It was so rewarding to transform that student/teacher relationship into one of a spiritual leader.

Then the revelation came during last summer’s mission trip to Charleston, WV. The Lord utilized me in ways I had never imagined. I felt the Holy Spirit working in me, changing me into someone else. I helped kids grow closer to Christ and blossom spiritually. At a foot washing ceremony on the last night of our mission trip we all prayed and prayed. I really opened myself up to God and let Him use me unconditionally. I could feel Old Adam dying and Christ building up a new better person in me.

We shared many hugs, many tears and truly felt the Spirit move. I knew then I had found my calling. I found a quiet corner and prayed, “This evening is the start of a new life for me. I hold nothing back from you Lord. Every part of me belongs to You. Use me as You will.” I wanted to be just as energized and passionate about Jesus EVERYDAY of my life as I was on mission trips.

We returned from that trip rededicated with a new mission. Our little group of believers would bring the Good News of Jesus Christ to those in our own community. We started a weekly bible study at our school and go on prayer walks about our town praying for those in need. I head a praise band and give the message at our youth services that draw in kids from all different spiritual backgrounds that hunger for the Truth. I have enrolled in a graduate studies program and initiated a distance learning program that will some day lead to an M Div and ordination.

As a Lutheran I have found a home where I can ardently yield to God’s will and help others around me. Before, I taught about great artists like Picasso and Pollock. Now I teach about the greatest artist of all, the one that made the earth and stars and knew me before I was even born. That is how and why I became a Lutheran.

[Lutherrunner]

and an occasional message about how as Christians we had to separate ourselves from the world.

See now...that's what I JUST DON'T GET!.......how can we affect the real world if we avoid it?....how can we influence and help people if we keep to ourselves?.....people want to do mission work in a third world country (which is fine and noble), but they avoid anybody who doesn't go to the "right" church......

BTW....I grew up a Lutheran from birth in Michigan....but have been living in Texas for quite a while and sometimes feel like I am perceived as a second class citizen, as far as religion is concerned......

[Bollman]

"You are the light of the world. Let your light shine before others so they can see the good deeds of your Father in heaven!"

Word up!

[ctay]

Bollman what a wonderful testimony.

Maybe going out and finding the ones that don't go to church and witnessing to those. But sometimes those people get defensive too, some will probably listen. I had a lady that said she might come visit my church sometime, I need to go talk to her and try to get her to come.

[Bollman]

ctay-- Thanks. That is about a year old. I have grown a lot since then. My youth services turn 1 year old the first weekend in November. We reach many kids from all kinds of faith. I like bringing people together. It is just a slap in the face when you are looked down upon because you verbalize your faith in a different way.

peace-

Bollman

[IowaLutheran]

I am from Elk Horn, IA.
Bollman

(Hums "Its a Small World After All") I grew up in Griswold, my parents now live in Atlantic, and my in-laws live by Jacksonville just west of Kimballton.

And I'm 1/2 Danish! (Elk Horn is the home of the Danish Immigrant Museum and an authentic Danish windmill).

[saami]

I am a Lutheran in the evangelical world.

Once my band was invited to play at a big Christian music festival with about a dozen other bands. At a planning meeting, when they asked me what church I was from, I heard whispers of distaste. “I thought we were inviting real Christians,” a little lady commented with a sour look on her face. I laughed it off. I make the occasional denominational joke like the most folks do. But I have since encountered this sentiment over and over.

This past fall I started taking graduate classes at a local 'Non-Denominational' Evangelical college. Through the entrance process I was upfront with the fact that I am Renewal Lutheran and after an interview where we shared our beliefs and found them mutually compatible, the Graduate Admissions board accepted me no problem. But now that I am in class I am finding hostility towards denominations other than the two or three that are predominate at this institution, not from the faculty or the materials covered in class. On the contrary, the text that I just finished for a Spirituality class sounded like it could be from a Lutheran seminary, but some of my fellow students continually make snide comments about other denominations. One man speaks about trying to 'save' his Presbyterian friend. He calls Liturgical churches LEGALISTS with such venom in his voice. And Catholics... you should hear the things they say about our Catholic brothers and sisters. I commented once about how while I don't agree with all of their practices, I know and have worshipped with many wonderful, God-fearing, spirit-filled Catholics. And the Catholic Church is SO active in missions all around the world. They are the hands and feet of Jesus in places that other churches are afraid to go. How can we dismiss all of the works they do in the name of Jesus Christ because of some theological differences? It makes me wonder if they believe their will be any saints in heaven before 1850???

Anyway, it’s funny. I consider myself Confessional and Evangelical, Catholic and Protestant, liturgical and post-modern, sacramental and charismatic. So while I can appreciate their beliefs, it does pain me to hear their distaste for mine.

This just doesn't happen to me. I was speaking with a lady from my church and she joined an adult bible study ran by some Baptists friends of hers. She encountered the same attitude. When she said she was Lutheran the other ladies gasped. She told me she is planning on writing a book from her experiences in the evangelical world called, Lutherans Go To Heaven Too or Its OK To Be A Lutheran.

Anyone else encountered any such encounters? Any advice on how to handle these sorts of attitudes? I feel like I am the ambassador for Lutheranism in a hostile world.

Bollman

All the time - in the South - from my sisters who are now pentecostal - from Catholics (check out OBOB here at CF!) We must be in about the right postition if we are getting criticized from all directions!

[KagomeShuko]

Bollman, try growing up Lutheran in SouthWest Louisiana. "Lutheran, you're a devil worshipper" is what I heard ALL the time. Day after day I was called a devil worshipper. People SERIOUSLY believe that! I don't like remembering it, even.

I still get that treatment at time from some people. They gasp and go "ew, they're Lutheran." I find it really odd, too, since ECUSA is apparently a pretty big denomination here after Catholic and Baptist, as we've been attending an ECUSA church while St. Paul is not up and running. . .

[Bollman]

I had a break through at class last week. We had to do a fifteen minute long presentation on a Christian spiritual leader from the past 2000 years. I did mine on Homer Larsen, the Lutheran radio minister. It was well received.

Right after me, a lady did a speach on a Lutheran who worked in the communist block... named... maybe... Wurmbrand???? It was really awesome. The two messages, back to back, gave the class something to chew on. Both of those two leaders put their words into practice!

As for my ministry, people are getting used to the fact that I worship Lutheran. Often times I hear them preface it with, "But he goes to a good Lutheran church...." That makes me chuckle.

Bollman

[disciple777]

Yes, you are right on. There are too many hurting people. They want people to care about them. Yes, God has commanded all of us to care for others. Yes, a simple phone call just to say Hello. This simple gesture will do wonders. This can turn people around. Not doing this also can cause people to even kill themselves as they begin to feel that no one cares. The other tool will be the small group. This gives tremendous opportunity for people to get to know others and minister to them. If you have not read Rick Warren's Purpose driven life, I would suggest you to do this.

I want to share this with you. Many years ago, I asked God to show me if there was anyone who needs to be ministered to. I have never prayed like this before. The next day, I ran into a hurting woman in a nursing home. As soon as I saw her, I was drawn towards her. The burden became heavy. I took some pains to visit her every week. This turned out to be a step for her to meet Jesus. I will share details in the next post. Yes, there is somebody who needs to be minstered to. Perhaps it could be you.

[Melethiel]

If you have not read Rick Warren's Purpose driven life, I would suggest you to do this.

I would suggest you not. There are plenty of books better than that one.

[SPALATIN]

Yes, you are right on. There are too many hurting people. They want people to care about them. Yes, God has commanded all of us to care for others. Yes, a simple phone call just to say Hello. This simple gesture will do wonders. This can turn people around. Not doing this also can cause people to even kill themselves as they begin to feel that no one cares. The other tool will be the small group. This gives tremendous opportunity for people to get to know others and minister to them. If you have not read Rick Warren's Purpose driven life, I would suggest you to do this.

I want to share this with you. Many years ago, I asked God to show me if there was anyone who needs to be ministered to. I have never prayed like this before. The next day, I ran into a hurting woman in a nursing home. As soon as I saw her, I was drawn towards her. The burden became heavy. I took some pains to visit her every week. This turned out to be a step for her to meet Jesus. I will share details in the next post. Yes, there is somebody who needs to be minstered to. Perhaps it could be you.

Rick Warrens book is not what I suggest anyone to read. Warren has the bad habit of giving you something good on hand and taking it away from you with the other. It is mostly Law and very little Gospel. And don't go quoting Bill Hybels of Willow Creek either. He is just as bad if not worse with "Contagious Christian"

Besides it was God that led you to the woman in the nursing home not Warren. Read God's word and leave Rick Warren to get dusty on the shelf.

[RayJGentry]

I can actually relate to a lot from the original post. When I came back to Brookings, SD after attending Luther College for a year and a half, I found that most of the groups on campus didn't seem to have too high an opinion of the Lutheran Church. Criticisms of watered down gospel and uncommitted Christians filled my conversations with people. It was very offensive, but much like stereotypes we have of other denominations, not entirely unfounded. To believe any Lutheran Church, as a whole, is raising luke-warm christians is absurb. They exist in our demontion, just as in any other.

I think that this stereotype is amplified by the traditional Grace based Lutheran theology and sermon. No, we don't insist that our members obstain from this-that-and-the-other-thing, but we don't encourage Godlessness. Just like we consider many denominations to be too legalistic, they consider us to be to slack. Honestly, if you'd like a great book on the Christian life, I'd highly recommend "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. It is the spiritual meat that the Bible talks about, rather than milk that is provided by the likes of Warren and Lucado.

On a side note, I was in Atlantic, IA and did a daycamp (VBS) when I worked for Okoboji Lutheran Bible Camp. So yeah, small world! We should have a big CF midwest Lutheran party sometime!! LOL

God's Peace, Love, Wisdom and JOY!
Spankin' the Devil,

Ray J Gentry IV

[KagomeShuko]

You know, I have Doug Field's Purpose Driven Youth Ministry, and while it is interesting to see what he says, it's really just Warren's thing applied to youth ministry. . .so I've been told by people who have read Warren or both. . .

Still, while I like the PDYM book for SOME things, I don't take it seriously as a WHOLE. There are some great ideas - if you look at the separately.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[RayJGentry]

kagomeshuko,

good to see a Lost and Found fan!

Rock On!!

Ray J Gentry

[KagomeShuko]

Yay! The are my FAVORITE band! The guys themselves are some great friends, too :)

Stein Auf!
Bridget

kagomeshuko,

good to see a Lost and Found fan!

Rock On!!

Ray J Gentry

[reverie_maiden]

I am a Lutheran in the evangelical world.

Once my band was invited to play at a big Christian music festival with about a dozen other bands. At a planning meeting, when they asked me what church I was from, I heard whispers of distaste. “I thought we were inviting real Christians,” a little lady commented with a sour look on her face. I laughed it off. I make the occasional denominational joke like the most folks do. But I have since encountered this sentiment over and over.

This past fall I started taking graduate classes at a local 'Non-Denominational' Evangelical college. Through the entrance process I was upfront with the fact that I am Renewal Lutheran and after an interview where we shared our beliefs and found them mutually compatible, the Graduate Admissions board accepted me no problem. But now that I am in class I am finding hostility towards denominations other than the two or three that are predominate at this institution, not from the faculty or the materials covered in class. On the contrary, the text that I just finished for a Spirituality class sounded like it could be from a Lutheran seminary, but some of my fellow students continually make snide comments about other denominations. One man speaks about trying to 'save' his Presbyterian friend. He calls Liturgical churches LEGALISTS with such venom in his voice. And Catholics... you should hear the things they say about our Catholic brothers and sisters. I commented once about how while I don't agree with all of their practices, I know and have worshipped with many wonderful, God-fearing, spirit-filled Catholics. And the Catholic Church is SO active in missions all around the world. They are the hands and feet of Jesus in places that other churches are afraid to go. How can we dismiss all of the works they do in the name of Jesus Christ because of some theological differences? It makes me wonder if they believe their will be any saints in heaven before 1850???

Anyway, it’s funny. I consider myself Confessional and Evangelical, Catholic and Protestant, liturgical and post-modern, sacramental and charismatic. So while I can appreciate their beliefs, it does pain me to hear their distaste for mine.

This just doesn't happen to me. I was speaking with a lady from my church and she joined an adult bible study ran by some Baptists friends of hers. She encountered the same attitude. When she said she was Lutheran the other ladies gasped. She told me she is planning on writing a book from her experiences in the evangelical world called, Lutherans Go To Heaven Too or Its OK To Be A Lutheran.

Anyone else encountered any such encounters? Any advice on how to handle these sorts of attitudes? I feel like I am the ambassador for Lutheranism in a hostile world.

Bollman
Yes, I have experienced snobbish remarks about me being a Lutheran...mostly from my wiccan, atheist, and Catholic friends. I always get the question, "What do you really believe?" They ask this in the tone that what I believe is something absurd or nonexistent! Some days I just want to shake them. Oh, and another comment I got from my wiccan friend was, "I could always teach you my religion, because I am sure your religion doesn't suit you." What is that supposed to mean! Of course my religion suits me! I take great pride in the beliefs that I have. I would be lost without God! Yes, at my church everyone sits in the same places every Sunday and we sing the traditional hymns very slowly so that 95% of the members (which are elderly) can keep up! Ok, sorry I have to rant and rave a bit there...but people downgrading Lutherans just makes me mad!

[AngelusSax]

I know how you feel, sort of. My fiancé changed her Christian tradition from Baptist to Lutheran a few years ago (she did it mostly for me, but she has since found she likes Lutheranism better for herself as well). Her family was upset because they thought she was no longer Christian! Fortunately, she was able to explain how we are a Christocentric church, and we just hold to some different teachings on some things than they do, like baptism and communion for instance (and of course she didn't say this to their face or anything, but let's face it, the Lutheran way is better, right? Otherwise, why would we still be Lutheran? :amen:)

Thankfully her family now realizes that Lutherans are Christians, but I still think they don't like it. I mean, we often read from the NASB, which isn't the KJV, so we must be in error............................ *yawn*

[Bollman]

Hi folks,

I am still running into this sort of feeling. I had a Neo-Baptist type tell me the other day that all of my youth group were unsaved. I opened my bible and tried showing her what "saved" meant and that we most assuredly are and will be saved by God's undying love (GRACE). She still didn't buy it. She had been so conditioned to believe that there has to be an alter call event after a long-winded emotional sermon with much weeping and then a certain prayer... or else you're not a real Christian. Finally I asked her if she thought there would be any saints (I then had to explain what a saint was) in heaven that lived before the middle 1800's. She paused and had to think about it for a while.

These experiences just build the strength of my Lutheranism... I have been reading 1 John every night. I know that we walk with Jesus everyday. Jesus dwells in us and we in Him. He makes us new. He works in our hearts with His Holy Spirit and we see our lives change. Though Him we come to love our neighbor, we serve the poor in His name, we give to our church and our community... slowly we because new... it isn't a one prayer event.... it is a process that starts before we are born (Psalm 139:13) and becomes perfect when we live in His presence in the next life.

Until then, I am still wandering this Evangelical world, saying my confession, taken the Lord's Supper, and fighting' the good fight.


Peace,


Bollman

[Bollman]

Thankfully her family now realizes that Lutherans are Christians, but I still think they don't like it. I mean, we often read from the NASB, which isn't the KJV, so we must be in error............................ *yawn*

Oh yeah... I often read the Message! That makes 'em think I am some sort of New Age person.

Bollman

[KagomeShuko]

Bollman,

The one thing I find interesting is how much people LOVE Lost And Found, as they are SO Lutheran. . .

I'm sure there are some people out there that criticize their songs. . .perhaps if they KNEW the theology in them, they'd not like them so much. . .LOL I'm amazed by the amount of theology packed into their songs.

Yeah, it's never fun being criticized. I've got people who criticize me for my beliefs and then people who are glad to have me as a friend because of them, too.

The only way I can say to "deal with it" is to love them with the love of Christ, no matter what.

I was shunned from a local youth ministers network because of being Lutheran AND female.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Bollman]

I just wanted to give a heads up that I have a blog that discribes my experiences both at college and with my ministry.

www.metc.net/~bbollman (http://www.metc.net/~bbollman)

It has some band info, some free music downloads and also my online journal.

Bollman

[FLA2760]

I'll repost my personal story for those who don't remember....

I like to tell folks that six years ago the only thing I knew about Lutheranism was it had something to do with Martin Luther King.;) I was raised in a fundamentalist home. My mother is Pentecostal, my father went through Nazarene seminary and preaches at an evangelical church. I learned the lessons of the bible very early but the focus always seemed to be on what you CAN’T do instead of the power of the Gospel or the love of Jesus Christ.

After my thirteenth birthday my parents allowed me to decide which church I attended. I chose a little country Baptist church. There, during a salvation message, I asked Jesus to come into my heart as my Lord and Savior and was later baptized. That was really great and really monumental at the time… but after that water event, it seemed like the church didn’t offer anything to me as a young Christian. Week after week, more Salvation messages… and an occasional message about how as Christians we had to separate ourselves from the world. My faith never really grew beyond that original experience. I wanted more… and didn’t find it.

When I went to college, I found it easy to slip away from God in order to pursue my own interests. I still prayed, still feared God. But my focus changed. My will became more important than His will. I placed a barrier between us.

Years later, I found myself teaching art at a public school in western Iowa. In 2001, my students invited me to their Luther League’s Easter Walk, a dramatic step-by-step retracing of Jesus’ journey the days leading up to his crucifixion. The youth showed so much passion and faith, the light of the Lord shined right out of them. It touched me to have them… my students teaching me, ministering to me and touching my heart. I wanted to share in that. I started attending this Lutheran Church regularly. My faith began to grow again. I found a new freedom in this church, a freedom to be myself and enjoy the world that God created around me. I found a church that preached the Word of God and pushed me to take the Gospel to the street and help others, not to gain righteousness, but to show the awesome love of the Father. I loved the new member classes. I finally got the growth I had wanted ten years earlier. I felt like Mario after getting a mushroom. I was now a bigger Christian, equipped with tools that could help me on my walk to grow closer to Jesus. I became a leader of Luther League and I began chaperoning service projects and their weeklong mission trip during the summers. I had always been the teacher that everyone loved. It was so rewarding to transform that student/teacher relationship into one of a spiritual leader.

Then the revelation came during last summer’s mission trip to Charleston, WV. The Lord utilized me in ways I had never imagined. I felt the Holy Spirit working in me, changing me into someone else. I helped kids grow closer to Christ and blossom spiritually. At a foot washing ceremony on the last night of our mission trip we all prayed and prayed. I really opened myself up to God and let Him use me unconditionally. I could feel Old Adam dying and Christ building up a new better person in me.

We shared many hugs, many tears and truly felt the Spirit move. I knew then I had found my calling. I found a quiet corner and prayed, “This evening is the start of a new life for me. I hold nothing back from you Lord. Every part of me belongs to You. Use me as You will.” I wanted to be just as energized and passionate about Jesus EVERYDAY of my life as I was on mission trips.

We returned from that trip rededicated with a new mission. Our little group of believers would bring the Good News of Jesus Christ to those in our own community. We started a weekly bible study at our school and go on prayer walks about our town praying for those in need. I head a praise band and give the message at our youth services that draw in kids from all different spiritual backgrounds that hunger for the Truth. I have enrolled in a graduate studies program and initiated a distance learning program that will some day lead to an M Div and ordination.

As a Lutheran I have found a home where I can ardently yield to God’s will and help others around me. Before, I taught about great artists like Picasso and Pollock. Now I teach about the greatest artist of all, the one that made the earth and stars and knew me before I was even born. That is how and why I became a Lutheran.
Hi Bollman
That was an awesome testimony. I was brought up Catholic and we lived across the street from a Jesuit retreat and I remember that I was maybe 8 at the time that the Jesuits had some Charismatic Catholic prayer meetings so I was exposed to that too. Later I went to a Baptist Church and accepted Christ. I then married a Jewish woman who now believes that Christ is the Messiah and she is born again too. Praise God! We have been to Charismatic and non denominational Churches. We have been active in nursing home and tract evangelism and we now attend a Lutheran Church where our daughter was baptized. We too have encountered this attitude of division when we tell some of our old Church friends we now go to a Lutheran Church. Did not our LORD say that all will know we are disciples by our LOVE.

[Atlantians]

After I posted my remark I looked at your profile, Bollman, and I was surprised to see you are not far from me (are you from Elk Horn Iowa or Elk Horn Nebraska?). I guessed that to see that kind of attitude that you were from the south or some other region where there are few Lutherans.

The only experience I've ever had close to yours is when, at Iowa State, I went to a few Campus Crusade for Christ meetings, and after after a meeting with one of the leaders and filling out a form, they said I am now a Christian and therefore saved. I thought to myself, that is a bunch of $&@, I've been a Christian since my baptism at 6 weeks old, which I affirmed at confirmation in the Lutheran church when I was 14! I stopped going after that.
Well that is rediculous that they would say that.:scratch:

Um, I don't think one is saved when they are baptised, but rather are baptised when they are saved.
So when you ratified your salvation, and asked Christ into your heart you were saved. I recommend getting rebaptised as an Adult.
But I am a Baptist...:D

Anyway, I have seen a suedo-legalistic view about legalism a lot lately.

My Church routinely says that we should never be "religious" and essentially "religiong is bad". I agree that pharasitical and self-righteous religion is evil and wrong. But of course the Religion that is true is the one that keeps itself pure from the world and helps the poor.
That is what the Bible says is the religiosity that God accepts.

I have been seeing this "lets live Church" mantra a lot. And I agree with it. But the people who are saying it are getting to the point that they are implying that if you believe in an organized form of Christianity (Lutheran especially) is fine, you are being religious and thus not being a follower of Christ, and are thus a Christian in name only not in spirit. Which is rediculous.

[Cyberdyne1]

Hmmm...

Bizarre stuff in this thread. I was a catholic and I got saved after a night of drinking... :eek:

I started attending a Pentacostal church. I've always believed Lutherans were "real Christians"...

Since I have joined this forum, I haven't been so disappointed with the Christian community as I am now.

You'd think we are all each others enemy's...

Quite sad it is... :cry:

[BabyLutheran]

It's so funny, without Luther, the evangelicals would all be Catholic..lol

[Izdaari]

Well, I'm sorry some of you have had a bad time with folks from other denominations. :(

Just want to let you know that not all Evangelicals feel that way. Quite to the contrary, this Pentecostal (AG) loves Lutherans, thinks highly of Lutheran theology, and enjoys a liturgical service now and then. But perhaps I'm in the minority.

:groupray:

[BabyLutheran]

What else is odd is, ELCA has the word evangelical in it.

[IowaLutheran]

What else is odd is, ELCA has the word evangelical in it.

Lutherans were the original evangelicals. Luther himself referred to the German churches that had separated from Rome as Evangelicals instead of Lutherans.

[BabyLutheran]

Yes, that's why I think it's so ironic that "evangelicals" are putting down the Lutheran church

[Izdaari]

What else is odd is, ELCA has the word evangelical in it.
Aye, so it does. Funny thing is, ELCA is probably the only Lutheran synod I would consider, not because of that, but because I agree with the ELCA on the areas where it differs from the other major synods.

Lutherans were the original evangelicals. Luther himself referred to the German churches that had separated from Rome as Evangelicals instead of Lutherans.

Well, words change meaning over time. Evangelical still has the original meaning, but it's acquired some new ones that were unknown in Luther's time.

[Izdaari]

Yes, that's why I think it's so ironic that "evangelicals" are putting down the Lutheran church
Only some of us, Ortho, only some. I would hope most of us are better than that. :)

[RegularGuy]

Just want to let you know that not all Evangelicals feel that way. Quite to the contrary, this Pentecostal (AG) loves Lutherans, thinks highly of Lutheran theology, and enjoys a liturgical service now and then. But perhaps I'm in the minority.

:groupray:

From your posts, Izdaari, I've often suspected that you were a closet Lutheran anyway.

I mean that in a kind way.

:wave:

[BabyLutheran]

Yeah, I am at a loss as to which evangelicals are putting Lutheranism down. When I was attending an evangelical church we never even talked about other denominations, positive or negative. And back then, I would never even think of the Lutheran church one way or another.

[stumpjumper]

Lutherans are still Gospel centered which is really all that evangelical means.

In Germany, Lutherans are generally just called Evangelical Christians.

[IowaLutheran]

The morning after the caucuses here, a local radio guy was asking the question, "what is an evangelical?" because of the massive "evangelical" support for the Southern Baptist pastor/presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

I didn't call in, but I thought of at least three different definitions:

(1) As stumpjumper referred to, anyone who as "gospel centered" with a belief in salvation by grace alone by faith alone apart from works of the law. This is the Lutheran definition.
(2) A Christian who professes they are "born again" and have made a personal decision for Christ. This is the American religious definition.
(3) A "born again" Christian who holds certain political views on abortion, gays, etc. This is the American political definition.

[BabyLutheran]

Do you consider the 3 to be mutually exclusive, because I think most of the people in categories 2 and 3 believe 1?

I do believe it is not necessary to be in group 2 or 3 to be in group 1, and that might be what you are driving at, and I certainly agree with you there!

[IowaLutheran]

Do you consider the 3 to be mutually exclusive, because I think most of the people in categories 2 and 3 believe 1?

I do believe it is not necessary to be in group 2 or 3 to be in group 1, and that might be what you are driving at, and I certainly agree with you there!

I did not intend for them to be mutually exclusive.

However, when those who are in definition 2 or 3 make faith a "work", (i.e., believe that we are required to "decide for Christ" on our own volition), then I would argue that while they may say they believe in grace alone/faith alone, they do not fall within the Lutheran definition of those terms.

[BabyLutheran]

Aha, I get it now. I am not really much of a Lutheran yet! lol Somehow we have free will to choose Christ but not entirely, is that it?

I would wonder why those in camps 2 and 3 would have much of a beef with Lutherans, I wonder if they somehow think Lutherans are very similar to RC?

[IowaLutheran]

We have free will, but it is in bondage to sin. Our faith and resulting good works are products of the Holy Spirit moving within us.

[BabyLutheran]

Got it! I will be studying up on this, believe me!

[RevCowboy]

Got it! I will be studying up on this, believe me!

Luther's simplest explanation is found in his Small Catechism (http://bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#creed)'s explanation to the third article of the creed.

The Third Article.
Of Sanctification.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.
What does this mean?--Answer.
I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life. This is most certainly true.

[Izdaari]

From your posts, Izdaari, I've often suspected that you were a closet Lutheran anyway.

I mean that in a kind way.

:wave:
Nothing closet about it! So far as my theology, I am a Lutheran, albeit a charismatic and emergent one! But for whatever reason, God led me to an AG church, and I stay where He puts me.

:D