Sock Puppet of Meiderlin

[Habakkuk3]

was the made-up username

(or rather they called 'em "pseudonyms" or "pen names" back in the Jurassic period before the Web)

of Rupert Meldenius

who wrote something many falsely attribute to Augustine:

"In essentials, unity;

in non-essentials; liberty,

and in all things, charity."

Baxter quoted it...

"Rupert"'s book was re-printed way later...

still, Augustine

(who lived about 1200 years before Meiderlin

and who did not consider the Donatists
as a true part of the Body of Christ)

gets credit for being some "Unity honcho".


Moral of the story:

if ya have a sock puppet that "comes up with a good one"

watch out that St Augustine doesn't get credit for it.

[Habakkuk3]

of what

"Essentials"

are

And if they hafta be spelled out fer ya --

then yew prolly ain't got 'em.

But if ya dew;

welcome to the workshop, I guess.

Maybe it can be likened unto a place to come play baseball

where you don't have to have the same old argument that

"Why don't we run to third base first when we hit the ball, and go around the bases clock-wise?"

In some universe and ta some peeple mebbe those are interesting questions to ask...

but some people just wanna play...

and accept that yew run to first base first if yew hit it fair

[Habakkuk3]

If you go here and jump down about eight paragraphs, it starts talking about Peter Meiderlin; who was using the username of Rupert Meldenius

www.stanford.edu/group/iv...21JJ.shtml (http://www.stanford.edu/group/ivfaculty/Essays/20010521JJ.shtml)

but of course, everyone will keep attributing the clause to Augustine...

[savinggrc]

Noticed that they really attributed it to Paul:

In it he captured Paul's distinction in a phrase that has since become justly memorable: “in essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.”

Question remains, what Scripture is the fellow referring to where Paul said that. :)

This seems to be the closest. Any better ideas?
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

[Habakkuk3]

That seems as good as any to me -- the guy harps on a "distinction" or "distinctions" that Paul makes -- I agree that there is not "just one scripture" that ties into the "IN Essentials - Unity..." quote.

In the New Testament we see Paul struggling for both purity and unity in the churches he founded. He deplored doctrinal deviations in the churches at Galatia, Colossae, and Thessalonica. He warned Timothy of people at Ephesus who propagated “false doctrines” (1 Timothy 1:3). He also urged peace and unity for those who were unacceptably divisive and separatistic, especially those at Corinth (1 Corinthians 1:10–17) and Philippi (Philippians 4:2). His most extended treatment of these matters comes in Romans 14:1–15:13 where he discusses the meat-eaters (food) and sabbath-keepers (holy days). There he makes a subtle but important distinction that can help us.

Paul urges Christians to honor their theological and ethical convictions, but with three caveats: remember that we will give account of ourselves to God (14:12), that we should always accept one another and aim for peace, love and mutual edification (15:7,14:19), and that we should not judge one another in what he calls “disputable matters” (14:1). A “disputable matter” is something neither right or wrong in itself, like whether to eat certain foods or observe certain holy days. We can contrast them to what Paul called “matters of first importance” in 1 Corinthians 15:3, that Christ died for our sins, was buried, raised from the dead, and appeared to numerous people.

I guess all of it is in the spirit of this new forum -- which I understand to be for those Christians who more or less agree on "The Essentials" -- or at least to some extent.

[savinggrc]

Sam said he thought that Blaise Pascal had said that...?

[LouisBooth]

Exactly..now we know we should agree on the essentals the next logical step is what is essental? ;) I would say diety of christ, trinity, Bible infaulablity, and God.

[savinggrc]

I'm with ya.

[Navigator]

I was thinking Francis of Assisi...

No one named Rupert could think of something as simple as that...

:D

[LouisBooth]

what quote are you talking about Nav?

[savinggrc]

The one Habs gave in the opening post...

In essentials, unity.

In non-essentials, liberty...etc.

From here: www.bibleviews.com/Essentials.html (http://www.bibleviews.com/Essentials.html) came this:
"The complete statement, "In Essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love" comes from Augustine (354-430 AD) over 1500 years ago..."

And from here: www.cin.org/index2.html (http://www.cin.org/index2.html) came this:

"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters, liberty;
in all things charity."

Pope John XXIII, Ad Petri Cathedram
and popularly attributed to St. Augustine


I went over to ccel.org (http://ccel.org) and tried to find said quote from Augustine, but had no success. Of course, that proves nothing. Does anyone have any idea of what volume it is supposed to be in? :)

Karen

[LouisBooth]

Thanks saving!!! I use that quote all the time..along with St. Fransis of Asis (sp)

[Habakkuk3]

In the 17th century the Lutheran pastor and theologian Peter Meiderlin had grown tired of the rancor and division caused by doctrinal disputes in the wake of the Protestant Reformation. In the early 1620s he wrote a book under the pen name of Rupert Meldenius, all but forgotten until it was republished in 1850 by Friedrich Luecke, entitled A Prayerful Admonition for Peace to the Theologians of the Augsburg Confession. In it he captured Paul's distinction in a phrase that has since become justly memorable: “in essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.” German theologians refer to this as the Friedensspruch or “Peace Saying.” Meiderlin's dictum (sometimes wrongly attributed to Augustine) reached the English-speaking world through the Puritan Richard Baxter (1615–1691), who uses it in his book The Saint's Everlasting Rest (1650). Baxter adopted it as his personal motto and urged that Christians must “tolerate tolerable differences.” (See Hans Rollmann, “In Essentials Unity.”)

What would Peter Meiderlin say upon reading David Barrett's research about 20,000 neo-apostolic movements?! First, I think he would praise God and marvel at the power of the Gospel to attract peoples from the ends of the earth. I think he would honor the freedom of the individual Christian to follow conscience and conviction, and do his best to love, understand and engage them. Finally, I am guessing he would pray that they affirm the essentials of the historic Christian faith and urge believers to unite themselves with all those who did likewise.

And what would Meiderlin or Baxter say to me, right here, today?! I think they would urge me to boldly affirm the whole Gospel for the whole world, nothing more and nothing less. Then, they would tell me to “accept one another, just as Christ has accepted you” (Romans 15:7).


Actually, Augustine got it from Pope John XXiii, who got it from Larry Bird, who passed it to Michael Jordan, who gave it off to Magic Johnson, who banked it off Blaise Pascal and over to Margaret MacDonald, who must be who Meiderlin got it from

[Wearynot]

Actually, Augustine got it from Pope John XXiii, who got it from Larry Bird, who passed it to Michael Jordan, who gave it off to Magic Johnson, who banked it off Blaise Pascal and over to Margaret MacDonald, who must be who Meiderlin got it from....

::snort:: John Calvin....he got it from John Calvin...Habs, how COULD you have forgotten that?!?!?!?!

[Habakkuk3]

Do you think I was pre-destinated to forget about John Calvin?

Maybe I choose -- of my own free will -- to forget about John Calvin...

[LazyRST]

you guys always gotta bring that calvin guy up, dont ya? :)

i missed out on the entirety of this discussion, but for what its worth, ive always loved that quote of whoever it is (i always thought it was augy's)

[Habakkuk3]

Calvin Booth is not coming back to the Dallas Mavericks next season -- but they will be playing in a new Arena...

[Habakkuk3]

And John Calvin will not play for the Mavericks either, but that is understandable (and was probably predestined as well.)

[Wearynot]

Does that mean that John Calvin is now a freewill agent?

Bwahahahahahahaha, I slay me!

[savinggrc]

*giggle snort chuckle*