Regarding the Trinity - ALL PLEASE READ [Archive]

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insaneinthebrain

9th October 2005, 12:28 AM

I'm not going to beat around the bush. I expect the members of this forum to have integrity. That being said, forum rule #6 states the following:

.: Forum Rule 6 :.
Rule No. 6 - "Christians Only" Forums
6.1 Some forums on this website are provided for Christian discussion only as indicated in the category title. To have "Christians Only" forums we need to define who can post there. We need a set of criteria that clearly defines who a Christian is for the purposes of posting in the "Christians Only" forums. This is not for any other reason. We are not speculating as to a person's salvation, faith or beliefs. This rule is not intended to label a member "non-Christian".
6.2 We use the contents of the Nicene Creed as a set of criteria to define who can post in the "Christians Only" forums. The Nicene Creed has been used for millenia by the church to define the boundaries of orthodoxy within Christianity. The contents of the Nicene Creed conveniently summarize the main doctrines found in the Bible that are held by Evangelical Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity. The Nicene Creed itself has been used since the beginning of church history to battle heresy. It summarizes issues like the Trinitarian nature of God, the Divinity of Christ and other basic doctrines of mainstream Christianity that are agreed upon by all major Christian denominations and churches. We do not expect members who want to post in the "Christians Only" forums to accept or affirm the actual Creed - we expect them to agree to its contents only which are based on the Bible.

6.3 The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references as it is based on the Bible)

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

*The word "catholic" (literally, "universal") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination or institution.

**This can be interpreted to mean that baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or a regenerating ordinance.

6.4 You will NOT post in the "Christians Only" forums (but may post in all other forums) and will NOT use a "Christian" faith icon in your profile if you do NOT consider yourself a Christian (including but not limited to atheists, agnostics, or members of another faith or religion like Buddhism, Hinduism or Islam). The exception is that you may not post in the “Unorthodox Theological Doctrines” forum as that is only for those who fall within Rules 6.5 and 6.6, or reply to posts in “Questions by Non-Christians” where only those who fall within Rule 6.6 can answer.
6.5 You will NOT post in the "Christians Only" forums (but may post in all other forums) and will NOT use a "Christian" faith icon in your profile if you consider yourself a "Christian" but do NOT adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed (including but not limited to Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Unitarians, United Pentecostal Church members, Oneness Pentecostals or Church Of Christ Scientists). There are specific faith icons for "LDS" and "Jehovah Witnesses". Others may use the "Other-Church" faith icon.
a.An exception is that Jewish members may post in the Messianic Judaism forum only.
6.6 You MAY post in the "Christians Only" forums and MAY use a "Christian" faith icon in your profile if you consider yourself a "Christian" and DO adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed AND believe in the following controversial doctrines BUT the specific discussion of these doctrines must be posted in the Open forums (for example, Unorthodox Theological Doctrines) and not in the Christian Only forums:
a. Full Preterism.
b. Open Theism.
c. Universalism or Universal Salvation.
d. Annihilationism.
e. Freemasonry.
I've highlighted section 6.2, and underlined the part that's being addressed here.

The MJ staff have never been into witch hunts; we don't corner and question new members about their beliefs before letting them post. We expect everyone to have the integrity to abide by the rules they agreed to when signing up for CF. Quite simply, unless you start doing stuff like openly denying the Trinity, we aren't going to pry.

However, it has been brought to my attention that we have members going to other parts of CF, denying belief in the Trinity, and claiming that there is a large contingent in this forum that feel the same way. So, let me make this abundantly clear: In order to sport a Christian icon at CF, one must agree to the contents of rule 6. This includes the Nicene Creed, the Trinity, et al. If you cannot agree to this, PM a staff member and have you faith icon changed to "Other - Religion."* We won't be holding interrogations, but I do expect honesty from each member here.

Now, onto another issue...

It has also been brought to my attention that there are members gossiping about where MJ staff members stand regarding the Trinity. Well, nobody should be on staff if they do not accept it. I've struggled with the issue, but I can affirm belief in the Trinity. This will probably get me labeled "Messy-anic" by a few former close friends, but so be it. However, I know I'm not the issue, so I also make this request: If you suspect a staff member does not qualify as "Christian" by CF rules, don't be childish and gossip about it. Gather your evidence and send it to their superiors. Gossip is poison, and it isn't welcome here.

insaneinthebrain
Chief Moderator
Messianic Judaism Forums

*Note: Agreeing to the creed means you can look at it and say you agree with what it's saying, not that it holds any special place in your beliefs.

talmidim

9th October 2005, 01:49 AM

Read, understood and agreed.

CovenantRay

9th October 2005, 09:20 AM

Shalom:

Read, comprehended, agreed!

CovenantRay :prayer:

Adiel batKelev

9th October 2005, 09:42 AM

insaneinthebrain

9th October 2005, 10:32 AM

read

how does this site interpret this creed as it relates to the nature of G-d?

Are the "Father and Son and Holy Spirit" one - or are they three sepatate entities that are worshipped as one?

I know there are differing views among the various doctrines/denominations etc. Am wondering if there is an official view used on this site?
Well, I've most often seen the Trinity summed up with the following two statements:

The Father is God, the Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Spirit, The Spirit is not the Father.

Adiel batKelev

9th October 2005, 10:42 AM

Well, I've most often seen the Trinity summed up with the following two statements:

The Father is God, the Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Spirit, The Spirit is not the Father.Thank you for responding.

Is that the explanation used by the authority on this site? Is this taken to mean that G-d is three separate persons who are worshipped as one G-d?

forgive me - I *really* don't mean to sound pushy, although it might sound that way

I just really need to know how narrowly the definition is drawn :sigh:

jgonz

9th October 2005, 03:30 PM

The Father is God, the Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son, The Son is not the Spirit, The Spirit is not the Father.

I'm sorry insaneinthebrain, but those two sentences don't seem to agree with each other? :scratch:

I have no problem with the concept of the Trinity. I probably add More facets to G-d than the Trinity speaks of, but that's not the issue. But from your statement above, it looks like either G-d is 1 and the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are parts of each other....... or your 2nd sentence that there are 3 separate beings... :confused:

P_G

9th October 2005, 03:37 PM

Thank you for responding.

Is that the explanation used by the authority on this site? Is this taken to mean that G-d is three separate persons who are worshipped as one G-d?

forgive me - I *really* don't mean to sound pushy, although it might sound that way

I just really need to know how narrowly the definition is drawn :sigh:

No that is our moderators attempt to make a simplified explaintion of the concept of the Trinity and make it easier to understand.

The SOF of this site is very clear as to what is and is not considered 'christian' and what it's stance on the Trinity is. This is summed up in the Nicene creed.

In so far as the son which is where it seems the stumbling block comes in.

We see that Y'shua was begotten NOT made. Thus he is Not like any other being that had ever lived. Even the angels were Created beings. Not only was he begotten it was before all time began.

WE see that he is also ONE in BEING with the father which means that they are in Essence the same yet with different personages. How can this be? Is this not to say the he was simply Ha'Shem who came to put on a flesh suit to be EmanuEl? By no means can this be true either since clearly stated that Y'shua was the son of G-d and Not HaShem. Yet they were the same in Essence.

We also see that through Y'shua all things were made. Which means at the start of days that Y'shua was there. And yet one in being with the father 2 entities one being And surely acting in the same will and spirit.

We see that he is indeed True G-d from True G-d so he was surely G-d and not some man who has submitted to the will of G-d to be posessed by him and used to the fullest extent even unto death.

The classic definintion of the trinity is that there are three distinct personages all in will and desire in one being.

Going further this is why so often in the Torah "G-d" is reffered to using a plural pronoun as opposed to using a singular reference. Yet simply stated one G-d.

The scriptures that back up the Nicene creed are posted along with it in Moderator Insaneinthebrain's post.

I Pastor George am a trinitarian - The scriptures prove out that this is good theology and the truth.

Shalom

PG

jgonz

9th October 2005, 04:33 PM

Thanks Nehemiah_Center, that makes sense.

Ahavah

9th October 2005, 08:21 PM

HELP...I can't figure out who the Big wigs are around here (team alpha).
So hear it is...
I'm a christian, but I don't believe in http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_19.gifTrinity.
(as defined by the Nicene Creed)

My G-d has been seen in the Burning bush, in the Cloud by day and fire by night.

So please... someone help me change my Icon.

I'm a messianic, but I don't do http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_5_6.gifrabbinics.
The Traditons of an Oralhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_57.gif Torah do not intrest me....
I do not follow the Torah of MOSHE...
I follow YESHUA,who the Torah of Moshe LEAD TO.

So please......Someone...help me change my Icon.

Just let me be an "OTHER". http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_28_2.gif

Does this mean I won't even be able to say "Hello" since I'm considered an "Other" then? :eek:

This sure Sounds like Alot of walls to me.

Tear down the wall.
Tear down the wall.

Jew and Gentile...one in Yeshua....

Just me.......Ahavah

SpiritPsalmist

9th October 2005, 08:46 PM

Here is the MJAA statement of faith:

GOD - We believe that the Shema, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Deut. 6:4), teaches that God is Echad, as so declared: a united one, a composite unity, eternally existent in plural oneness [Gen. 1:1 (Elohim: God); Gen. 1:26 "Let us make man in our image"; Gen. 2:24 Adam & Eve were created to be as one flesh (basar echad)], that He is a personal God who created us ( Gen. 1 & 2), and that He exists forever in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as mentioned in Romans 8:14-17 (Father, Spirit, and Messiah - Son) and Matt. 28:18-20 (immersing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

GOD THE FATHER (Abba) - John 6:27b; I Cor 1:3; Gal. 1:1; Rev. 3:5, 21; Jer. 3:4, 19; 31:9; Mal. 1:6; Matt. 6:9, 32; Luke 10:21-22; John 1:14; 4:23; 5:17-26; 6:28-46; Rom. 8:14-15.

GOD THE SON (HaBen)

God does have a Son [Ps. 2; Prov. 30:4-6 (cf. Heb. 1); Luke 12:35-37; John 1:29-34, 49; 3:14-18].

The Son, called Yeshua (Jesus), meaning salvation, came to this world born of a virgin [Isa. 7:14 (cf. Luke 1:30-35)].

The Son is God (Deity), and is worshipped as God, having existed eternally [Ps. 110:1 (cf. Heb. 1:13); Isa. 9:6-7; Matt. 28:18-20; Phil. 2:5-11; Col. 1:15-19; Rev. 3:21 (Heb. 1 - worshipped by angels); Rev. 4:8, 5:5-14].

This One is the promised Mashiach (Messiah) of Israel [ Is. 9:6-7; 11:1; Dan. 9 (esp. verses 20-26); Isa. 53; John 1:17, 40-41, 45, 49; Mark 8:29].

He is the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star (Num. 24:17; Rev. 22:16).

He is our Passover, the Lamb of God ( I Cor. 5:7; Rev. 5; John 1:29).

GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT (Ruach HaKodesh)

Introduced in Gen. 1:2b.

In the Tenach, the Spirit of God came upon individuals during the times of our forefathers, like Moses, David (see II Sam. 23:1-3), and the Prophets, for the specific purposes.

In the New Covenant, the Messiah, Yeshua, promised His disciples that "the Comforter" would come to them after He was gone, described as the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17, 26), who was with them and would be in them. Yeshua further declared that the Spirit of Truth, would guide us into all truth and would glorify Him - the Messiah - not Himself (John 16:13-15). He empowers us (Acts 1:8). He seals us [Eph. 1:13; 4:30 (see NIV and Jewish New Testatment versions)]. If we have not the Spirit, we are not His (Rom. 8:9). He leads us and teaches us (Rom. 8:14-17). His indwelling enables us to live a godly life. Acts 2:38 says, "Repent, be immersed, and receive the Holy Spirit."

Ahavah

9th October 2005, 09:34 PM

Just wondering....Is the MJAA the final authority of what Messianic Judaism is? :confused: What about the other UMJC, and all the other associations?

jgonz

9th October 2005, 09:41 PM

I was wondering that too... MJAA is only one of many organizations...

SpiritPsalmist

9th October 2005, 10:08 PM

Just wondering....Is the MJAA the final authority of what Messianic Judaism is? :confused: What about the other UMJC, and all the other associations?

It was not posted to be the fianal authority but to give a better understanding of the Trinity view from a Messianic viewpoint.

Vaneeza Malkah

9th October 2005, 10:15 PM

As I've had to defend myself before on this website since I will never say I believe in trinity doctrine the way it's been taught by the church. "Trinitarian" concepts predate christianity and existed in pagan religions of the romans, greeks, etc...Their g-ds were grouped into trinities. Three seperate intities working together as one intitiy. As Ahava stated, this concept is fallable because there are other "aspects" or manifestations of G-d such as burning bush and pillar of smoke (usually ignored). This does not mean that we/I disagree with the scriptures (or rules), because it says: abba, ben, and Ruach haKodesh are one entity however Trinitarian beliefs usually teach that g-d is three seperate intities working together as one. (see the difference?) Most MJ's reject christmas and easter as pagan, but this concept of three seperate intities is pagan as well and should not go overlooked.

TRINITY is part and parcel of many religions such as Babylonian religions, Greek religions apart from Hinduism. In Hinduism Trinity appears as LORD BRAHMA, LORD VISHNU and LORD SIVA. In Greek mythology, TRINITY appears as ZEUS, ATHENA, and APOLLO. In Pagan religions of Rome, Trinity appears as JUPITER, JUNO, and MINERVA. In Egyptian civilization the same triad appears as OSIRIS, ISIS, and HORUS.

Bananna

10th October 2005, 03:38 AM

So we should make like its fall and leaves?

Seems to me over and over again, that MJ does not belong here at all.

bananna

SpiritPsalmist

10th October 2005, 08:10 AM

So we should make like its fall and leaves?

Seems to me over and over again, that MJ does not belong here at all.

bananna

This is not it at all.

This is mainly about those few who are hiding behind Messianic icons claiming to be Messianic when they are not. These members are quite openly stating that the Messianic moderators are dishonest and they themselves do not really believe that Yeshua is God. I for one will openly state that for me, that statement is a lie. I do believe Yeshua is God as described in the MJAA statement above. That is not CF's statement, never was intended to be. It is there just as a fuller explanation of the view of Abba, HaBen, and Ruach HaKodesh.

If you do not believe that Yeshua is God, no one is forcing you to. However if you believe that Yeshua is NOT God then, according to the policies of this forum you may not use the Messianic icon, which is the scroll. Thats all this is about.

The Messianic staff are reaffirming before you their stance on Yeshua and Who He is. We are also asking for those who are here ONLY to stir up trouble among Gods people and tell lies about them to be honorable. It is dishonorable to spread discord among the people.

Thats all this is about.

Ahavah

10th October 2005, 03:44 PM

Ok..no one answered my question..or is willing to change my ICON.
Come on guys...I want to be "OTHER".http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_31_1.gif

SpiritPsalmist

10th October 2005, 03:52 PM

Ok..no one answered my question..or is willing to change my ICON.
Come on guys...I want to be "OTHER".http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_31_1.gif

Your request is duly noted Ahavah. Please be patient. Know that as "other", as far as I understand you will not be allowed to post in the Christians Only area of the forum.

Ahavah

10th October 2005, 05:49 PM

Your request is duly noted Ahavah. Please be patient. Know that as "other", as far as I understand you will not be allowed to post in the Christians Only area of the forum.So Why is MJ listed under "christians" ONLY? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_34.gifShouldn't that be a seperate entity?
I never thought MJ was a denomination of christianityhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_19.gif????? :eek:
WOW...Ok...News to me. When did this happen?http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_58.gif
So if I just want to say HELLO..it will be deleted????

Tishri1

10th October 2005, 05:55 PM

So please......Someone...help me change my Icon.

SISTER AHAVAH have you noticed anything weird about your icon.....it's not even a Torah Scroll anymore....what gives:sorry:? You better be able to say HI...I love your Highs and your Highlows and your hellos:wave::kiss::hug:

insaneinthebrain

10th October 2005, 05:59 PM

Tishri1

10th October 2005, 06:08 PM

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_58.gif
ditto:cry::cry:

Tishri1

10th October 2005, 06:11 PM

agreed:thumbsup:

talmidim

10th October 2005, 06:28 PM

AHAVAH,

LISTEN CAREFULLY. PUT THE ICON DOWN AND SLOWLY BACK AWAY...

NOW PUT THE SCROLL BACK BESIDE YOUR NAME.

DO IT NOW AND EVERYTHING WILL BE ALL RIGHT.

Ahavah

10th October 2005, 06:34 PM

AHAVAH,

LISTEN CAREFULLY. PUT THE ICON DOWN AND SLOWLY BACK AWAY...

NOW PUT THE SCROLL BACK BESIDE YOUR NAME.

DO IT NOW AND EVERYTHING WILL BE ALL RIGHT.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_12_6.gifAHahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
ok...but I still can't do it.
They say the Alpha Team can only change my icon.

Tishri1

10th October 2005, 06:44 PM

Ahavah can't be responsible for her Icon ...I heared that her Torah Scroll turning into a Cross was a "sign" (tav)

http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/tav_Seal.asp

Tav (http://www.biblewheel.com/images/tav.gif), the name of the twenty-second letter of the Hebrew alphabet, means a mark, sign, or cross. In the ancient script it was written alternately as http://www.biblewheel.com/images/tcross_pic.gif and http://www.biblewheel.com/images/x_pic.gif, the first being identical to the classic form of the Cross of Christ. Gesenius notes that this letter referred to "a sign in the form of a cross branded on the thigh or neck of horses and camels." God used this letter to mark his faithful in the vision given to the Prophet Ezekiel:

And the Lord said, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark (http://www.biblewheel.com/images/tav.gif, Tav) upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark (http://www.biblewheel.com/images/tav.gif, Tav); and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

:wave:

talmidim

10th October 2005, 10:01 PM

Ahavah can't be responsible for her Icon ...I heared that her Torah Scroll turning into a Cross was a "sign" (tav)

http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/tav_Seal.asp

:wave:
Yup! She's a marked woman... http://www3.christianforums.com/images/mood/Happy.gif

Shimshon

10th October 2005, 11:18 PM

Yup! She's a marked woman... http://www3.christianforums.com/images/mood/Happy.gif
Well...she's my marked woman, and I love her.:kiss:
Meshichi lo megaresh Meshichi!!!!!!!!!

SpiritPsalmist

11th October 2005, 12:03 AM

I'm not meaning to be rude and/or exclusive, however, since this IS the MJ forum and this is an MJ forum specific issue, that for further discussion no one who is not MJ post.

Thank you for understanding.

Quaffer

simchat_torah

11th October 2005, 12:12 AM

Basically the question is: Do you agree with the Biblical referances given alongside each statement?
i'm not arguing, but I don't think anyone would say they don't agree with what at a verse says.... more like they would argue the interpretation of the verses. ie: the creed

For example, I doubt Ahavah would say, "No, I don't believe in those verses."

*shrugs* Just a suggestion on the wording there.

tis all,
Yafet ;)

yod

11th October 2005, 12:22 AM

what if God is expressed in more than three ways and we just don't know it?

Wags

11th October 2005, 02:10 AM

what if God is expressed in more than three ways and we just don't know it?

Good point!

Yovel

11th October 2005, 10:36 AM

Have you ever read Isa. 11:2 (1)The Spirit of the LORD

Yovel

11th October 2005, 10:40 AM

Have you ever read Isa. 11:2 (1)The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him. (2)The Spirit of wisdom, (3) and understanding, (4)The Spirit of council and (5) might, (6) The Spirit of knowleged (7) and of the fear of the LORD.

SpiritPsalmist

11th October 2005, 11:13 AM

insaneinthebrain

11th October 2005, 11:23 AM

http://www.redhatsocietystore.com/images/NewMiniGamblertn.jpg (http://www.redhatsocietystore.com/shopexd.asp?id=744)Mod Hat

Lets stay on topic please and not debate amongst each other. A mod post has been made regarding the non-Messianic posting in this thread...no more needs to be said by anyone else.

Thank you,

Quaffer
Since it has been brought up, yes, fellowship posts from non-messianics are still allowed in this forum. However, this isn't a fellowship thread. In addition, from a sticky regarding the rules that can be found in this forum:

** DEFINITION OF FELLOWSHIP POST:

It is not debate.
Someone without a scroll faith icon may not discuss reasons for or against a subject being discussed on this forum. This includes questions that essentially are rebuttal or argumentative in nature.

It is not apologetics.
Someone without a scroll faith icon may not engage in theological discussions that defend their particular point of view on scriptural, theological, doctrinal, Judaism (Messianic or non-Messianic) or political issues.

It is not answering questions.
Let's say a thread is started that asks the question about what do you think about keeping kosher? Only Messianics (those with a scroll faith icon) can offer an opinion about that. A member with any other faith icon may not answer that question in this forum. This is not to say they don't have an opinion on that topic, but they may not answer that question here. Neither may non-Messianics offer rebuttal to opinions posted in response to a question or discussion.

It is not teaching
If a thread is started that asks a general question such as what do you think XYZ means? Only a member bearing a scroll faith icon (thus identifying him/herself as Messianic) may give instruction on the topic. While there may be many very good ideas on the subject from other members (those bearing any other faith icon) they may not give instruction in the Messianic Judaism Forum.

Earnest questions are always welcome, from anyone.

It is
Essentially Fellowship is defined as discussion of topics of association, of companionship - i.e. discussions of things like friends, family, work..... these are fellowship posts. And posts that offer friendship would certainly be described as fellowship.
Those not sporting a Torah scroll need to be aware of this.

Sephania

11th October 2005, 01:40 PM

SpiritPsalmist

11th October 2005, 01:44 PM

Sorry Quaffer, love your hat BTW. :):thumbsup:

Thanks Zayit....I had a poll going in February (my birthday) with a choice of several mod hats and this is the one that one out :)

simchat_torah

11th October 2005, 07:57 PM

Quaffer's hat FTW!

Bananna

14th October 2005, 04:58 PM

So Why is MJ listed under "christians" ONLY? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_34.gifShouldn't that be a seperate entity?
I never thought MJ was a denomination of christianityhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_19.gif????? :eek:
WOW...Ok...News to me. When did this happen?http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_58.gif
So if I just want to say HELLO..it will be deleted????

It think it happened when Christians started reading their biblies and becoming torah observant.

Can I have a icon change also? How about a new icon for Torah observant only. I can't see that lemon/lime thing too well anyhow.

I don't care for the pactise of difining Christians by what some interpret the scriptures to be infering. Christian by strict definition is follower of Christ. Doesn't have to be a mature Christian, but I totally recognize the right of the owners to make discisions that bring order to fellowship. I privately asked about my status here before and just feel it is better to change the icon now with all the clarifications and stuff of the present decisions.

Bananna

Vaneeza Malkah

14th October 2005, 09:09 PM

It think it happened when Christians started reading their biblies and becoming torah observant.

Can I have a icon change also? How about a new icon for Torah observant only. I can't see that lemon/lime thing too well anyhow.

I don't care for the pactise of difining Christians by what some interpret the scriptures to be infering. Christian by strict definition is follower of Christ. Doesn't have to be a mature Christian, but I totally recognize the right of the owners to make discisions that bring order to fellowship. I privately asked about my status here before and just feel it is better to change the icon now with all the clarifications and stuff of the present decisions.

Bananna

I don't consider messianic judaism and messianic christian to be words that go together. As in the sense that christians are church-ians and messianics go to a synagogue not a church :)

Tishri1

14th October 2005, 10:37 PM

what about those of us who go to both? hehehe someone give me a name that sounds good:amen:

Bananna I would hate to see you change and not be able to discuss anything anymore:sigh:

DrMcDonald

17th October 2005, 12:30 AM

what if God is expressed in more than three ways and we just don't know it?

well it seems we have many names for him:

Names of G-d in Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism)

Adiel batKelev

17th October 2005, 11:15 PM

well it seems we have many names for him:

Names of G-d in Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism)and each represent a very different aspect of who He is...

Misty Minister

19th October 2005, 06:12 PM

Jews can post in this sector of the forum. They are NOT required to affirm belief in the allegorical doctrine of the Trinity as created by the Romans.

Misty Minister

19th October 2005, 06:17 PM

I'm sorry insaneinthebrain, but those two sentences don't seem to agree with each other? :scratch:

I have no problem with the concept of the Trinity. I probably add More facets to G-d than the Trinity speaks of, but that's not the issue. But from your statement above, it looks like either G-d is 1 and the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are parts of each other....... or your 2nd sentence that there are 3 separate beings... :confused:
The concept is called "Allegorical" in theological parlance. That means it is difficult to understand, comprehend, and explaine. I dont worry about it because if the top Roman Catholic theologins cant explaine it in a clear and simple way, and the Roman Catholics made it up, I sure am not going to try to wrap my brain arround it. I figure that when I get "there" I will be able to see it all first hand. Till then Maranantha!

insaneinthebrain

19th October 2005, 06:24 PM

Jews can post in this sector of the forum. They are NOT required to affirm belief in the allegorical doctrine of the Trinity as created by the Romans.
They are allowed to ask questions and post fellowship. That is all.

Mentor

24th October 2005, 04:23 PM

I am one of gabriele's friends from school and just wanted to comment.

Gabriele was unjustly kicked for being true to herself and admitting that she does not believe in the Trinity. Then, the moderators harrassed her into changing her mind about it. Then, they accused her of having other accounts (they were her friends from school)

Then, they finally banned her.

This place is a lie.

John Mentor