Could we be healed today

[1hope]

I mentions having CFS for 8 years now. I have prayed for Gods healing all this time. I've had people praying for me and the laying on of hands. I've laid in bed in so much agony that I had actually asked God just to take me off this earth. But for those of us needing Gods healing, could we be keeping it on ourselves? I've asked God about this but never received an answer. maybe there is something we need to do for him or something we haven't done that we were suppose to and have just become blind to it. I know that pride and unforgiveness is a big factor in this at times.But for those who have humbled themselves to God and have forgiven....could we still be out of grace with the Lord someplace? I pray about it and I fast when I'm lead to...maybe he's telling me what I'm to do and I'm just not hearing. If I am letting this illness stay on me for not being where God wants me, could I be healed this very day if I could see where I'm in the wrong with God?

[ServantOfTheLord]

Please do NOT believe the word faith assertion that if you are not healed that it is your fault. Most likely, it is NOT your fault. I believe sometimes God will use these things to His glory and as long as that happens I am willing to suffer it. Read the book of Job. God can and will allow satan the ability to physically afflict us. As far as your CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?), have you had your thyroid checked? I am also experiencing things that the doctors are on the verge of labeling CFS and God has used this time to draw me closer to Him and to glorify Him through the testimony that I have had during these trying times. Now I have prayed and been prayed for. I have had hands laid on me and been annointed with oil. I have NOT been healed but I have been given just the right dose of strength and energy to accomplish what the Lord wants me too. I hope this helps.

In His Service,

Sandy

[ServantOfTheLord]

1hope,

I also wanted to mention that there are times when God will heal. I don't want you to think I do not believe that. My step-mother was miraculously healed from a thyroid tumor and she had alomst no faith. She still will not fully acknowledge that it was God. She may have been healed for one of two reasons: #1 the faith of those praying for her or #2 God was trying to get her attention. The bottom line is that our thoughts are not God's thoughts and we cannot know His logic. So as long as you are being obedient and praying/fasting/worshiping/studying,etc (and of course none of us do it perfectly) just like all Christians are supposed to do then do not feed into the hype about lack of faith being the reason you are not healed.

In His Service,

Sandy

[Kristy]

We just have to remember God does things in his time not ours. Maybe if God has a healing in store for you Then he is waiting untill the right time. Maybe your healing will be a witness to someone eles. Or maybe by your going through life like this and still serving and loveing the Lord Instead of being angry with him for allowing you to have this sickness is a witness to someone already. I dont think God works on a ok you do this for me and I will do this for you basis.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by 1hope
I mentions having CFS for 8 years now. I have prayed for Gods healing all this time. I've had people praying for me and the laying on of hands. I've laid in bed in so much agony that I had actually asked God just to take me off this earth. But for those of us needing Gods healing, could we be keeping it on ourselves? I've asked God about this but never received an answer. maybe there is something we need to do for him or something we haven't done that we were suppose to and have just become blind to it. I know that pride and unforgiveness is a big factor in this at times.But for those who have humbled themselves to God and have forgiven....could we still be out of grace with the Lord someplace? I pray about it and I fast when I'm lead to...maybe he's telling me what I'm to do and I'm just not hearing. If I am letting this illness stay on me for not being where God wants me, could I be healed this very day if I could see where I'm in the wrong with God?

1hope,

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but what is CFS?

Also, I'd like to invite you to read my testimony on the "sickness, faith, and healing" thread. 

I suffered with extreme, continuous, menstral bleeding for about 15 years, before the Lord worked it so that I could financially afford to have it taken care of medically.

I firmly believe that it was God's will for my body to function as He created it.  He did not create the female body to bleed like I was.

For my situation in particular I believe it was the cursing words of my father, as an adolescent that initiated the problem I had.  It was in my immaturity and lack of knowledge that I received that curse, and took it on personally.  By the time I understood what had happened my body was beyond what I could handle. 

I believe that God wanted to heal me miraculouly, but for whatever reason, it did not happen that way.  I do not believe God wanted the life to bleed out of me continuously. 

Asking God to show you if there is anything that you've done to bring this on is not a bad thing.  It could be a sin. It could be that you've left an opening somewhere for the enemy to get in.  It could be just an attack from the enemy.  Only God can reveal this to you.  But searching your heart is never a bad idea. :)

The important thing to know is that God did not make you sick.  He may teach you a lot of things during your time of sickness but He did not do it to you.  I know others on this site will tell you differently, so read all the Word for yourself and ask God directly.

God says He's a good Father.  If His child asks for bread, He will not give him a stone.

God bless you,  :angel:

I'm praying for you,

Barbara

[Loser For Jesus]

Can God heal today? Yes. Absolutely. In any and every circumstance, it is possible for God to heal.

Will God heal today? That, as always, is entirely a matter of His will. If a person is sick, the first thing they should do is ask God why they are sick and find out what His will is in the situation.

Perhaps you are sick because He is glorifying His name. Perhaps you are sick because of sin. Perhaps you are sick just because we live in a fallen world and our bodies are corrupted. Whichever it is, the most important thing is to determine what God's will is, and pray in faith for it to be done.

If it is His will to heal, then obviously you can be assured that it will happen.

love in Christ,

Malcolm

[1hope]

Quaffer..CFS Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is an illness that to best describe it feels like the flue that never goes away. But your testimony really hit home with me. Before I was ever born my mother had said she didn't want a girl and I was he only girl born into a home full of boys. She had a habit of calling me names Dummy ,Stupid, Ignorant...while I was growing up. She also referred to me as being a "girl" as if it were a lowly thing. My older brothers picked up on it and parroted her words Now she became saved when I was 2 or 3 yrs. old, but the name calling continued. I had very low-self esteem and was always rejected by others. I think that when she became a born again Christian it was worse on me then before she was saved.
I feel that what she said was a great impact on the depression and over-sensitivity I suffered as a child.I do not believe that her words are now the cause of the CFS though, that is in the past. I did have a hard time forgiving her because she had started in on the grand kids. Well when one son his second girl, my mothers response "a girl". I've actually prayed over my nieces not to go through what I did.
I have spoken forgiveness and asked God to give me peace. I have forgiven but the fact that too often the hurtful memories come back to me, maybe I still need to let go of a part of that past. Maybe I haven't forgiven the way I thought.

[Loser For Jesus]

I'm not making any judgments about your specific situation, but with regard to forgiveness you should certainly keep this Scripture in mind and seek God on if it really applies to you.

Mat 6:14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

love in Christ,
malcolm

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by 1hope
Quaffer..CFS Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is an illness that to best describe it feels like the flue that never goes away. But your testimony really hit home with me. Before I was ever born my mother had said she didn't want a girl and I was he only girl born into a home full of boys. She had a habit of calling me names Dummy ,Stupid, Ignorant...while I was growing up. She also referred to me as being a "girl" as if it were a lowly thing. My older brothers picked up on it and parroted her words Now she became saved when I was 2 or 3 yrs. old, but the name calling continued. I had very low-self esteem and was always rejected by others. I think that when she became a born again Christian it was worse on me then before she was saved.
I feel that what she said was a great impact on the depression and over-sensitivity I suffered as a child.I do not believe that her words are now the cause of the CFS though, that is in the past. I did have a hard time forgiving her because she had started in on the grand kids. Well when one son his second girl, my mothers response "a girl". I've actually prayed over my nieces not to go through what I did.
I have spoken forgiveness and asked God to give me peace. I have forgiven but the fact that too often the hurtful memories come back to me, maybe I still need to let go of a part of that past. Maybe I haven't forgiven the way I thought.

1hope,

Thanks so much for your responsiveness.

Unforgiveness can cause a lot of physical problem.  Spiritually, unforgiveness will tie you to that person, as a dead weight.  It will sap your energy spiritually and physically.  Do ask God to show you how to forgive.  It can never hurt.

You could be surprised at the effects of untrue words on our spirits that can effect us physically.

Prov 18:21 says, (KJV)"Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof".

In my case that is exactly what happened.  When I first started my period, when my dad would go to the store, and it was that time of month, I would ask him to get some more for me.  Many times he would become quite angry, not because it was him purchasing them, but because of the cost of the items.  He would throw a fit and I honestly do not remember the words he used but I know how I felt.  I felt worthless and embarrassed that I was a girl.  Even at that young age, I began to experience unusually, excessive bleeding. 

It was only during my time of recovery from the surgery that the Lord revealed the source of the problem.  At first, I was angry at my father for speaking such words over me.  His words had cursed my womb from the beginning.  I know he did not mean to do that, but as you can see from that verse in Prov., words are quite important.

Now, Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law.  However, our enemy goes about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.  And, our enemy is a thief, a lyer, and a destroyer. 

If we do not know what God's will is (it's written for us), then for lack of knowledge we allow our enemy to steal, kill, and destroy anything he can get away with. 

According to scripture, (IS 53:5) "by his stripes we are healed" and 1 Peter 2:24 "by Whose stripes you were healed", we see that it is His will that you be healed.  God's will is not wishy, washy as our's.  Changing and ever dependant upon His mood of the moment.  It is more like the last Will and Testament.  It's a covenant that was made with us.  He does not change.  He is not moody.  He does things according to His will, which is written in His Word.

The more knowledge we have about what His will is, the more we can begin to speak what is correct.  And therefore, changing, eating the fruit of death to eating the fruit of life.

Your mother spoke words of death but you can speak words of life.  Instead of just taking what you hear, start combatting that with words of life.

Such as:  what does God say about you? He does not say your stupid.  He says, you're seated in heavenly places with Him.  He says, you are redeemed from the curse of the law.  He says, He loved you so much that He gave His only begotten Son for you. 

As you read your Bible, begin to write down the things that God says about you.  When you pray, say things like, "Father, I thank You that You sent Your Son for me.  I thank you that you've given me a seat in heavenly places with you.  I thank you that I am redeemed from the curse of the law, etc, etc. 

You'll be amazed at the changes that you will begin to see.  Once you've asked God to meet a need that is clear in His Word that He wants to meet, you don't need to ask Him anymore.  It's done.  After that just praise and thank Him for the answer.  Praying as I've demonstrated for you above.

You may have to do this for some time before you see any physical changes.  But then again, you may not.  Keep at it.  Even after you're manifested healing. 

This is the proper way to pray.  We do not need to beg God to meet a need that we have.  We need to ask, then go on as if it's been answered with a yes.  Because God does not give stones when we ask for bread.  And He does not starve His children of their bread.

Please keep me posted sister.  If you desire, PM me.

I'm praying for you.

Barbara    :pink:

[DaveKerwin]

wow, great posts everyone.

Keep the faith 1hope, God hears your prayers.

[Jephunneh]

"We just have to remember God does things in his time not ours. Maybe if God has a healing in store for you Then he is waiting untill the right time. Maybe your healing will be a witness to someone eles. Or maybe by your going through life like this and still serving and loveing the Lord Instead of being angry with him for allowing you to have this sickness is a witness to someone already. I dont think God works on a ok you do this for me and I will do this for you basis."
Good words Kristy!

[Andrew]

"I've asked God about this but never received an answer......maybe he's telling me what I'm to do and I'm just not hearing."

His answer is already in the Word.

"maybe there is something we need to do for him or something we haven't done that we were suppose to and have just become blind to it."

you cant buy or earn God's free gift cos its already been paid for by the Son. You only need to ask, believe and ACT on your faith (if u say you believe).

ps: PM-ed u with more.

[SUNSTONE]

I think that it is God's will is to heal you and every Christian, but there are different factors that may be preventing this.

1. It COULD be you, and some unbelief.

2. It could be the devil and his forces, and most likely he has something to do with it.

3. You may not be specific about your problem. Like it could need a miracle, or it could just be a healing.

Do you get into the spirit much?
Try during those times, and also ask what is the problem when your in the spirit.
Treat it as if you are playing football, and you need a touchdown to win. Go after, and keep fighting, and fighting, push on. Sooner or later something WILL happen. But you have to want it real bad.

Have you ever been healed of anything before? If so, keep a positive attitude on that, and use it to help you fight.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Andrew
"I've asked God about this but never received an answer......maybe he's telling me what I'm to do and I'm just not hearing."

His answer is already in the Word.

"maybe there is something we need to do for him or something we haven't done that we were suppose to and have just become blind to it."

you cant buy or earn God's free gift cos its already been paid for by the Son. You only need to ask, believe and ACT on your faith (if u say you believe).

ps: PM-ed u with more.

I agree with him, it is God's will for you to be healed. He isn't up there going, ok you get healed and you don't. There is something missing from the puzzle. Its not your fault as if it were a right or wrong, its just something that you don't know, most likely.

[Andrew]

1Hope,

There is someone (Pray 4 Israel) in the Christian Theology (Eschatology) section who has given his testimony of being instantaneously healed of CFS. u can check it out here:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22193

[hobart schmedly]

I agree with him, it is God's will for you to be healed. He isn't up there going, ok you get healed and you don't.
Agreed. The idea that God has the gospel and the promises on hold for some is a lapse back into mere theism. By "mere theism" I mean the old roman-greek concept that the "gods" are sitting up there deciding the fate of individuals and blessing or cursing on a whim. This is not the gospel! God made all the decisions, made good all the promises, and said "yes" to all prayers offered in faith when He sent Jesus, His only Son, to die and be raised. It has all been done. In some areas God is passive today. Since everything has been completed, it is now up to us to appropriate the promises of the gospel by faith. Healing is one such area. He certainly can soverneignly reach down and heal people separate from their faith, but that is not the perferred method.

[SnuP]

Originally posted by 1hope
Quaffer..CFS Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is an illness that to best describe it feels like the flue that never goes away. But your testimony really hit home with me. Before I was ever born my mother had said she didn't want a girl and I was he only girl born into a home full of boys. She had a habit of calling me names Dummy ,Stupid, Ignorant...while I was growing up. She also referred to me as being a "girl" as if it were a lowly thing. My older brothers picked up on it and parroted her words Now she became saved when I was 2 or 3 yrs. old, but the name calling continued. I had very low-self esteem and was always rejected by others. I think that when she became a born again Christian it was worse on me then before she was saved.
I feel that what she said was a great impact on the depression and over-sensitivity I suffered as a child.I do not believe that her words are now the cause of the CFS though, that is in the past. I did have a hard time forgiving her because she had started in on the grand kids. Well when one son his second girl, my mothers response "a girl". I've actually prayed over my nieces not to go through what I did.
I have spoken forgiveness and asked God to give me peace. I have forgiven but the fact that too often the hurtful memories come back to me, maybe I still need to let go of a part of that past. Maybe I haven't forgiven the way I thought.

I should tell you something.  My father and I have been involved in an emotional healing ministry where we have seen a number of physical healings mainfest as a reasult of an emotional healing.  God cares more that you are healed emotionally then that you are healed physically.  As you remember the pain of one such event in your life.  Quietly ask Jesus what He would say to you concerning the memory.  Follow whatever leading He gives you and believe that it is Him leading.  If He takes you to another memory, ask the same question.  Keep asking the question until all of the pain is removed from your memories and follow every leading.  He will speak to you, and He will heal you.  First the spirit, then the soul, then the flesh.

Note:  You may need a friend or pastor to help you with this.  Do not shink back from any pain or painful memory.  God wants to remove the pain, but not if you are not willing to face it.  Do not be afraid for God will meet you and will help you.  Once the root of the sickness is healed then healing can mainifest in the flesh.

God Bless, We all are praying for you

SnuP

[Chloe]

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time, are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us. Romans 8:18

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28

Yes we can be healed today, but not everyone will be healed. Physical healing is NOT even part of the gospel, but spiritual healing (through regeneration by the Holy Spirit, by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Not being healed in not necessarily due to sin, lack of faith, or satan.
Satan cannot prevent God's will being done. If it is God's will for someone to be healed, it will be done, period. Just because we are Christians does not mean that we become super humans who are immune to disease and death, but what we are immune from, because of Jesus dying on the cross, is the penalty, the curse of sin, which is spiritual death.
If any Christian is healed, praise God!
If anyone is not healed, praise God and know that His strength is made perfect in weakness.
No one, Christian(no matter how great one's faith is, etc.) or not, will escape physical death, the death rate is still the same for everyone.

[SnuP]

That is absolutely wonderful. I wish everyone here could read your testimony. wonderful...

[LouisBooth]

I'd let my friend share her testimony about being faithful to God's plan for her life...how God's plan was for her to witness through her cancer, and he said no to her healing, but she can't. She's with him right now, for that was his will.

[SnuP]

Would it not have been even more glorious if after witnessing though her cancer, she had been able to get to the place that God could heal her?

Imagine how much more of a witness that would have been. :clap:

He could have then taken her home naturally, instead of from some demonic thing like cancer. :(

[1hope]

I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. Somebody who has not come to know Jesus as their personal Savior would not see any glory in it. Why would they want to become saved if it means being sick and suffering? Now, to be ill for so long that the world has given up hope THEN God heals me showing without a doubt that it was HIS doing not mans ...that I could witness to. but to say "Oh God wants me sick! praise the lord for my sickness!" I can't believe that. I truthfully do not understand why I have not been healed yet, but I just can't believe that it is for the Glory of God.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by 1hope
I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. Somebody who has not come to know Jesus as their personal Savior would not see any glory in it. Why would they want to become saved if it means being sick and suffering? Now, to be ill for so long that the world has given up hope THEN God heals me showing without a doubt that it was HIS doing not mans ...that I could witness to. but to say "Oh God wants me sick! praise the lord for my sickness!" I can't believe that. I truthfully do not understand why I have not been healed yet, but I just can't believe that it is for the Glory of God.

1Hope,

You're right.  It's you who brings glory to God not your circumstance.  Continue to praise Him for Who He Is. 

Know that by His stripes you are healed.  Now. You may not see the manefestation of it but none the less you are healed.  So continue to praise Him.  I believe I've already explained all that to you though so I won't belabor it again.

You've asked, in His Word He answered, now praise Him.

I'm praying for you.

 

[In His Grip . .]

God's plan can be known, in so far as it is necessary
for him to complete his work in you, otherwise
it wouldn be faith.

He'll show up and do what he needs to do, when
he needs to do it.

[Andrew]

quote:"I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. Somebody who has not come to know Jesus as their personal Savior would not see any glory in it. Why would they want to become saved if it means being sick and suffering? Now, to be ill for so long that the world has given up hope THEN God heals me showing without a doubt that it was HIS doing not mans ...that I could witness to. but to say "Oh God wants me sick! praise the lord for my sickness!" I can't believe that. I truthfully do not understand why I have not been healed yet, but I just can't believe that it is for the Glory of God."

EXACTLY! 1hope, praise the Lord you are on the right track at least!
As to wy your healing has not manifested yet, continue to seek the Lord on this. But know this for sure: He wants your healing manifested more than you do! continue to search and dont give up!

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Andrew
quote:"I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. Somebody who has not come to know Jesus as their personal Savior would not see any glory in it. Why would they want to become saved if it means being sick and suffering? Now, to be ill for so long that the world has given up hope THEN God heals me showing without a doubt that it was HIS doing not mans ...that I could witness to. but to say "Oh God wants me sick! praise the lord for my sickness!" I can't believe that. I truthfully do not understand why I have not been healed yet, but I just can't believe that it is for the Glory of God."

EXACTLY! 1hope, praise the Lord you are on the right track at least!
As to wy your healing has not manifested yet, continue to seek the Lord on this. But know this for sure: He wants your healing manifested more than you do! continue to search and dont give up!


Amen

[LouisBooth]

"Would it not have been even more glorious if after witnessing though her cancer, she had been able to get to the place that God could heal her? "

Nope, God's purpose in her was fufilled. Nothing was left undone. She witnesses perfectly with her sickness. I don't second guess God snup, he choose not to heal her, and his actions where right.


"I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. "

Then I'd say you don't know God as intimatly as I do :) I have seen him in this time and past times witness through people who couldn't talk, stand up or could bearly breath, and it was more powerful then anyone who was healed I have ever seen. LIke those boys said in the book of Daniel, we will worship him even if he chooses not to save us. God is sovergn, and he allows people to be sick and its part of his plan. I have seen it and believe it. God has created the good and the bad times, weather you want to acknowledge it or not.

[1hope]

"God is sovergn, and he allows people to be sick and its part of his plan. I have seen it and believe it. God has created the good and the bad times, weather you want to acknowledge it or not." Where in the bible did Jesus ever refuse to heal anybody because it was Gods will for them to be sick? I know we all have the bad times to strengthen our faith, I just don't believe we have to STAY in the bad times without any good times in our lives as well.

[LouisBooth]

"Where in the bible did Jesus ever refuse to heal anybody because it was Gods will for them to be sick? "

He didn't heal everyone he encountered..read mark.

As for healing people, he wasn't going the heal the guy with the mat, just did so because people didn't believe he could forgive sins. As for people bing sick and it being God's will, Job is a great example, as was my friend which I talked about. He says he will be with you in the valley of the shadow of death, not that you won't go there.

[SnuP]

Bad examples Louis.

She specifically asked for a scripture where God refused to heal someone because it wasn't His will.

The passages in Mark could easaly be shown to be talking about those will a lack of faith. The other two people that you mentioned, God healed.

I really don't see any evidence here, just hearsay.

[LouisBooth]

"She specifically asked for a scripture where God refused to heal someone because it wasn't His will."

I just showed you some perfect examples of them snup.


"The passages in Mark could easaly be shown to be talking about those will a lack of faith. "

Not really, its no where in the context at all. You have to add things to the text to get it to say that.

As far as the other two, it was God's will for them to be sick, that's exactly what they were asking for. As for other proof, I'd say look at Ecc 7:14, great verse on how God works, he is over all and every even :)

if you want to get down to brass tacks, according to what you believe about christ, it was the fathers will for him to be sick and he was not healed, but remade with a imperishable body :)

[1hope]

uh..you know God DID HEAL Job after he allowed Satan to attack him for so long. He blessed Job after with more than he'd had to start with

[SnuP]

Parralel passages to the one in mark show that the people had a lack of faith.

By the way. The lack of faith mentioned in the Bible is not faith for healing, but faith that God loves them and that God is big enough for them to trust in. Most of them didn't think that Jesus was big enough to handle their sickness ("he didn't have that authority because he wasn't God").

[Chloe]

Originally posted by 1hope
"God is sovergn, and he allows people to be sick and its part of his plan. I have seen it and believe it. God has created the good and the bad times, weather you want to acknowledge it or not." Where in the bible did Jesus ever refuse to heal anybody because it was Gods will for them to be sick? I know we all have the bad times to strengthen our faith, I just don't believe we have to STAY in the bad times without any good times in our lives as well.

 

Where in the Bible are we guaranteed healing?

Everyone will die, physically, so to say that it is God's will to be free of every sickness or disability is wrong, because eventually we will die from something.  We are only guaranteed spiritual healing, which is reconciliation with God through Jesus' death on the cross. 

Why did Paul have a thorn in the flesh and God would tell Paul that His grace was sufficient for him?  Why did Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach and frequent infirmities?


Oh, and where did you get the idea that cancer is demonic?  Even though our spirits are saved and are renewed, our bodies are still fallen and therefore prone to disease and death is inevitable.
 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Chloe
 

Where in the Bible are we guaranteed healing?

Everyone will die, physically, so to say that it is God's will to be free of every sickness or disability is wrong, because eventually we will die from something.  We are only guaranteed spiritual healing, which is reconciliation with God through Jesus' death on the cross. 

Why did Paul have a thorn in the flesh and God would tell Paul that His grace was sufficient for him?  Why did Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach and frequent infirmities?

Oh, and where did you get the idea that cancer is demonic?  Even though our spirits are saved and are renewed, our bodies are still fallen and therefore prone to disease and death is inevitable.
 

That guarentee would be found in Is 53:5 and 1 Peter 2:24

No one has to die due to sickness or disease.  Old age is not a sickness or disease.  The word "healed" is all conclusive.  Besides spiritural, it includes mental and physical. 

It's like the package deal you get at the bank.  You don't have to use all the services in the package but they were paid for.  In the package of Jesus dying on the cross and raising on the third day our body and mind were included.  Body, soul, and spirit.  Jesus came to make us whole.  Not just 1/3 whole, but whole.  Math may not be my strong point but I know that 1/3 does not make a whole.   :D

The issues with Paul and Timothy and where sickness comes from are dealt with in other threads so we don't need to go into them again.  You may check out the "faith" thread for how we've answered those questions.  There are other good threads as well.  Lot's of good reading and thinking.
:)

[Chloe]

Originally posted by Quaffer
That guarentee would be found in Is 53:5 and 1 Peter 2:24

No one has to die due to sickness or disease.  Old age is not a sickness or disease.  The word "healed" is all conclusive.  Besides spiritural, it includes mental and physical. 

It's like the package deal you get at the bank.  You don't have to use all the services in the package but they were paid for.  In the package of Jesus dying on the cross and raising on the third day our body and mind were included.  Body, soul, and spirit.  Jesus came to make us whole.  Not just 1/3 whole, but whole.  Math may not be my strong point but I know that 1/3 does not make a whole.   :D

The issues with Paul and Timothy and where sickness comes from are dealt with in other threads so we don't need to go into them again.  You may check out the "faith" thread for how we've answered those questions.  There are other good threads as well.  Lot's of good reading and thinking.
:)

Those verses you gave are not in reference to physical healing.  These verses have nothing to do with the physical at all.  God is far more concerned with our souls, which are eternal, than with our earthly tents that will perish. Our bodies are not redeemed along with our souls, otherwise we would they would not die.  Again, we are not promised health, wealth, or even long lives.  We are here to do the work of God, no matter if our health is good or poor, if we are rich or poor, or our lives will be long or short.  

Could you perhaps post a link?

[Andrew]

quote: "Those verses you gave are not in reference to physical healing.Ê These verses have nothing to do with the physical at all."

The literal truth about Isaiah 53:4

Besides our sins, Jesus bore our sicknesses and pains on the cross. He was also whipped 39 times on His back (till His flesh was torn and His bones exposed) to buy us healing.

Isaiah 53:4,5
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs [sicknesses], and carried our sorrows [pains]: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The words "griefs" and "sorrows" actually mean "sicknesses" and "pains" (physical and mental) in the original Hebrew text (see Strong's numbers 02483 and 04341). The translation is thus unfortunate.

Recently, we had 2 messianic Jews in our church. My Pastor asked them to read from their Hebrew Bible these verses. They said it reads "sicknesses and pains" not griefs and sorrows.

But if that doesnt satissfy you, let's see how the Bible interprets itself:

More proof: The verses are quoted again in Matthew 8:17 and 1 Peter 2:24.

Some have insisted that Isaiah 53:4 has to do with spiritual healing only. But let the Bible interpret the Bible. How does the Holy Spirit translate Isaiah 53:4 in Matthew 8:15? He says, "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses", implying physical healing.

Matthew 8:15-17
15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Moreover, the immediate context of Matthew 8:17 (verses 15 and 16) proves that the verse is referring to physical healing. This is not to say that spiritual healing is excluded as demons were cast out too.

Also, you might wanna check out what the word "saved" in the NT means. The Greek word for "saved" in the New Testament, which is "sozo", it means more than just saved from sin and hell. According to Strong's Greek lexicon, it also means:

* To save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction.
* To save one from injury or peril.
* To save a suffering one from perishing, that is, one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health.
* To preserve one who is in danger of destruction.
* To save or rescue.

Just by studying the Greek word for "saved", we can know that salvation is more than just forgiveness of sin and "fire insurance". It includes physical healing, protection and, basically, being delivered from whatever troubles we encounter.

Redeemed from every sickness and plague

In Deuteronomy 28, there are 11 verses of blessings (verses 3 to 13) and 53 verses of curses (verses 16 to 68). Since there are more curses than blessings here, it behoves the Christian to study what these curses are, lest he calls something a blessing when it is a curse!

One of the curses is:

Deuteronomy 28:61
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

Notice it says "every sickness, and every plague". This means that any and every sickness or disease is a curse, never a blessing as some Christians believe. So, if you say that your sickness is a blessing from God, you are contradicting Deuteronomy 28:61, which implies that any sickness is a curse.

But praise God that because of Christ's work on the cross, we have been redeemed from the curses of the law, including Deuteronomy 28:61.

Galatians 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

In other words, healing is part of Christ's redemptive work. Healing is part of the atonement (Isaiah 53:4, Matthew 8:17 and 1 Peter 2:24)!

So, we can't say that God chooses to heal some and not others because the fact is that healing is offered to all through the cross. If we say that God is willing to heal only some people, it is like saying that God is willing to save only some people. Neither can we say that God chastens His children with diseases (see Does God chasten with sicknesses and deaths?). If that were true, God would be going against the work of His Son!

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Would it not have been even more glorious if after witnessing though her cancer, she had been able to get to the place that God could heal her? "

Nope, God's purpose in her was fufilled. Nothing was left undone. She witnesses perfectly with her sickness. I don't second guess God snup, he choose not to heal her, and his actions where right.


"I never could see how my being sick would be a witness to somebody. "

Then I'd say you don't know God as intimatly as I do :) I have seen him in this time and past times witness through people who couldn't talk, stand up or could bearly breath, and it was more powerful then anyone who was healed I have ever seen. LIke those boys said in the book of Daniel, we will worship him even if he chooses not to save us. God is sovergn, and he allows people to be sick and its part of his plan. I have seen it and believe it. God has created the good and the bad times, weather you want to acknowledge it or not.

You don't know God as well as you think you do. God is sovergn, but he doesn't want his children sick no more than he wants any person to goto hell. If God used a sick person to witness, and it was effective, that is his sovergnty. Its like a coach on a football team, and has an injured player that he uses. The player still produces, but he could do better. God/coach doesn't want the injury but in there soverngty will use it.

Now God creates the good times and the bad times, to test us.He uses those times to see what you will do. Will you fall to temptation or stand on his word? This makes are faith stronger, or actually it gets rid of disbelief.

I believe you know God, but me like you have alot of things to learn, and this healing thing is one you should learn before anybody else gets sick and you just sit back believing its God's will for them to be that way.

[hobart schmedly]

Originally posted by SnuP
Parralel passages to the one in mark show that the people had a lack of faith.

By the way. The lack of faith mentioned in the Bible is not faith for healing, but faith that God loves them and that God is big enough for them to trust in. Most of them didn't think that Jesus was big enough to handle their sickness ("he didn't have that authority because he wasn't God").

Excellent point SnuPer!

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Chloe
 

Where in the Bible are we guaranteed healing?

Everyone will die, physically, so to say that it is God's will to be free of every sickness or disability is wrong, because eventually we will die from something.  We are only guaranteed spiritual healing, which is reconciliation with God through Jesus' death on the cross. 

Why did Paul have a thorn in the flesh and God would tell Paul that His grace was sufficient for him?  Why did Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach and frequent infirmities?


[Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed.] James 5:14-16

When Philip asked Jesus, "show us the Father and it is enough for us", Jesus said this.
[Have I been with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?.....
Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; Otherwise believe on account of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.] John 14:9+11-14

What are the works, that He is talking about?


Now God told Paul that his grace was sufficient for him, because in his weakness, God was strong. It doesn't go into detail, but perhaps if he did have that problem fixed, he would have temptation that he couldn't bare.
I have seen and done many healings. My knee is not 100 percent, because God told me if it was, I would go back to playing basketball every chance I got. At the same time ignoring people, and God. My knee was hurt to the point that I needed a knee brace, not anymore. I can even play basketball, but not for more than an hour a day.

It took me weeks to get my MIND right about the healing in my knee. If God didn't tell me that it was as good as it was going to get, I would still be praying for it. So don't think that God is up there saying, ok you can be healed, but you can't. If that is the case, HE will tell you.

[1hope]

I have heard people talking about the same thing SUNSTONE. That God did not completely restore them because they would be getting so caught up in other things that they would neglect their time with him. However, my case has proven to be just the opposite. At the time I became ill, I was just getting Very serious about studying my bible, not just reading it as Ihad in the past. And I mean getting into studying the very meaning of everything in the bible. I had started making more time for God in my life. You see my life up until about 8 years ago was pretty empty and lonely. I went to work came home went to church Sunday mornings...that pretty much summed up my entire life. But I started looking for a church that I could grow in more and take a more active part in. Meet other Christians in. I had gotten into American Tae kwon do as a sport. I made a point of drawing closer to God though, so not to let anything come before him. I would always say a special prayer before class and often during classes.when ever I practiced my forms at home I listen to bible tapes. I had just gotten a new dog that I had wanted to start training. I even prayed over the DOG! As I started doing different activities in my life I found myself growing closer to God, making him a part of all of it. But when I became ill, not only did the activities stop but I couldn't even read the bible or think clear enough to pray. I remember one time I was trying desperately to read my bible, my vision blurred so much that I couldn't make out the letters. I was so upset, I through the bible across the room! I had finally found a great church too. Full of love and very much alive! The songs were written by people in the church and there was something about those song that made me want to laugh. It was so inspiring...but again the illness hindered me.
The services were long and to often I would become ill..dizzy,confused,nauseous, I had to be taken home. I believe in my case I do need that complete healing. When ever I have asked God about it, the only thing I would get from him was “Keep pressing”. I do get discouraged a lot. One time a few years ago I asked him about my trouble and he gave me.. Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten,.
A year ago I asked him again he gave me..Luk 18:2 about the judge that finally avenged the widow woman who kept coming back to him just because of her persistence.
So I'm still persisting, though I do grow weary and discouraged so often...God has no gain for me to be sick, this I know. :clap:

[LouisBooth]

"uh..you know God DID HEAL Job after he allowed Satan to attack him for so long. He blessed Job after with more than he'd had to start with
"

I agree, but it shows that God 1. allows sickness to faithful and 2. He uses sickness

"The lack of faith mentioned in the Bible is not faith for healing, "

Sorry Snup, there are not several differnt types of faith, that is another rationalization WOF people use to spread their sin sickness docterine.

"Isaiah 53:4,5"

Sorry andrew, according to you we can't use those promices in the OT because it changed when Jesus came, so try again :)


"God is sovergn, but he doesn't want his children sick no more than he wants any person to goto hell"

I know God quite well thanks, he is MORE concerned with your spiritual well being then your physical one because your physical body will die NO MATTER WHAT, and it will be remade. God uses sickness as the bible shows he does, Read Ecc 7:14.

I do have things to learn, but healing I don't think is one of them. Sickness is part of living in a fallen word, not apart of being sinful. God causes and uses sickness sometimes to our benefit spiritually, and people with faith get sick, period. That's what the bible teaches.

[LouisBooth]

"My knee was hurt to the point that I needed a knee brace, not anymore. I can even play basketball, but not for more than an hour a day. "

yet another instance of God causing or allowing sickness to improve you spiritually, it was NOT that you didn't have the faith to get healing, it was that God didn't want you to be healed for a purpose. Great example!


"So I'm still persisting, though I do grow weary and discouraged so often...God has no gain for me to be sick, this I know. "

Maybe not right now, no. I'd agree not ALL sickness is in God's will at this time, but some of it is and he uses it.

[Andrew]

"So I'm still persisting, though I do grow weary and discouraged so often...God has no gain for me to be sick, this I know."

Thanks for sharing 1hope. Again at least you know God is not the source of your problems. I mean you drew closer to him, started reading the Bible, started praying etc... so why wld God then stop u from doing all this by making u sick? Its the devil!

Continue to persist. 2 days ago, in my care grp, a woman gave her testimony of how she was finally healed of thyroid sickness. She had asked many times, believed for many years, and then recently, one day, as she was worshipping, the revelation just came to her that she was already completely healed, and she is!

And to not be discouraged, stick around faith filled Christians who believe in healing and the goodness of God. Sit under annointed teaching and preaching on healing, God's grace etc. Dont talk with Christians who tell u its God's will for you to be like that -- that's a sure way to shipwreck your faith for healing.

if you are interested, i can mail u tapes and VCDs on healing. just PM me.

God bless

[Chloe]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
[Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed.] James 5:14-16

When Philip asked Jesus, "show us the Father and it is enough for us", Jesus said this.
[Have I been with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?.....
Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; Otherwise believe on account of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.] John 14:9+11-14

What are the works, that He is talking about?


Now God told Paul that his grace was sufficient for him, because in his weakness, God was strong. It doesn't go into detail, but perhaps if he did have that problem fixed, he would have temptation that he couldn't bare.
I have seen and done many healings. My knee is not 100 percent, because God told me if it was, I would go back to playing basketball every chance I got. At the same time ignoring people, and God. My knee was hurt to the point that I needed a knee brace, not anymore. I can even play basketball, but not for more than an hour a day.

It took me weeks to get my MIND right about the healing in my knee. If God didn't tell me that it was as good as it was going to get, I would still be praying for it. So don't think that God is up there saying, ok you can be healed, but you can't. If that is the case, HE will tell you.

All that we ask in Jesus' name according to God's will, will be done, not our every whim.  God is not our personal genie.  All Christians will experience physical death, but if healing is ours to claim, why do we still die?  Because our bodies have not been redeemed yet.  Our bodies will be redeemed at the resurrection, so ultimately, we will not be healed until then.   I fully believe that God heals, but because our bodies have yet to be redeemed, they are still in a fallen state and therefore subject to death and diseases and sicknesses.  It is wrong and unbiblical to say to those who are not in good health, that they are that way because they are in sin or because they lack faith, although some sicknesses can be the result of sin and sometimes one is not healed because they didn't pray, but this is not the bottom line.  Nor can it be said that some are not completely healed simply to keep them in line, although this can be so, again it is not the bottom line.  We will all be completely healed when we receive our glorified bodies, that is the healing that is guaranteed.

"a. Many have wondered if James "guarantees" healing here for the sick who are prayed for in <I>faith</I>; some have interpreted the idea behind <I>save</I> as not specifically being healing, and <I>raise him up</I> as being a reference to ultimate resurrection; the reference to sins being <I>forgiven</I> adding to the idea that James is considering a spiritual work and healing, not necessarily a physical healing.

b. Yet, the context of the statement demands that James is not <I>excluding</I> physical healing as an answer to prayer (though he does seem to be broader than <I>only</I> a physical healing); we should pray for others in faith, expecting that God will heal them, then leaving the matter in God's hands
<DL>
<DD>i. Clearly, God does not grant immediate healing for every prayer of faith; yet many are not healed simply because there is no <I>prayer of faith</I> offered up; the best approach in praying for the sick is to pray with humble confidence that they will be healed, unless God clearly and sovereignly has made it clear that this is not His will; and then to leave the matter to God </DD>
<DD>&nbsp;</DD></DL>c. James will remind us that mutual confession and prayer bring healing, both physically and spiritually; these free us from the heavy burdens (physically and spiritually) of sin not dealt with, and put us in line with the powerful workings of the Holy Spirit." David Guzik&nbsp;

&nbsp;

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"My knee was hurt to the point that I needed a knee brace, not anymore. I can even play basketball, but not for more than an hour a day. "

yet another instance of God causing or allowing sickness to improve you spiritually, it was NOT that you didn't have the faith to get healing, it was that God didn't want you to be healed for a purpose. Great example!


"So I'm still persisting, though I do grow weary and discouraged so often...God has no gain for me to be sick, this I know. "

Maybe not right now, no. I'd agree not ALL sickness is in God's will at this time, but some of it is and he uses it.

If I thought like you LouisBooth, then I would still be in a knee brace, my back would still be hurting, as well as 4 other backs of people that I prayed for.
You missed the point a healing took place, I can still do the things I want to do. One other factor is missing, I prayed for God to not only help me fight sin, but help me in my spiritual growth. So my knee only bothers me when I play "alot" of basketball. God didn't want/allow my knee injury, it was all on me. I pushed myself to hard and didn't rest, and made basketball my God. If I didn't pray for God to help me fight against sin, my knee would most likely be 100 percent.

The other person that is sick that keeps pressing in, is told by God to keep pressing in. I can tell you for a fact that there are other factors that are keeping this man from getting healed. Right around the time he started to get serious about his faith is when the sickness came. That sounds like demonic forces at work to me, maybe there is a teaching that he needs to learn. What ever it is, if he keeps fighting he will get healed.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Chloe
All that we ask in Jesus' name according to God's will, will be done, not our every whim.&nbsp; God is not our personal genie.&nbsp; All Christians will experience physical death, but if healing is ours to claim, why do we still die?&nbsp; Because our bodies have not been redeemed yet.&nbsp; Our bodies will be redeemed at the resurrection, so ultimately, we will not be healed until then.&nbsp;&nbsp; I fully believe that God heals, but because our bodies have yet to be redeemed, they are still in a fallen state and therefore subject to death and diseases and sicknesses.&nbsp; It is wrong and unbiblical to say to those who are not in good health, that they are that way because they are in sin or because they lack faith, although some sicknesses can be the result of sin and sometimes one is not healed because they didn't pray, but this is not the bottom line.&nbsp; Nor can it be said that some are not completely healed simply to keep them in line, although this can be so, again it is not the bottom line.&nbsp; We will all be completely healed when we receive our glorified bodies, that is&nbsp;the healing that is&nbsp;guaranteed.

"a. Many have wondered if James "guarantees" healing here for the sick who are prayed for in <I>faith</I>; some have interpreted the idea behind <I>save</I> as not specifically being healing, and <I>raise him up</I> as being a reference to ultimate resurrection; the reference to sins being <I>forgiven</I> adding to the idea that James is considering a spiritual work and healing, not necessarily a physical healing.

b. Yet, the context of the statement demands that James is not <I>excluding</I> physical healing as an answer to prayer (though he does seem to be broader than <I>only</I> a physical healing); we should pray for others in faith, expecting that God will heal them, then leaving the matter in God's hands
<DL>
<DD>i. Clearly, God does not grant immediate healing for every prayer of faith; yet many are not healed simply because there is no <I>prayer of faith</I> offered up; the best approach in praying for the sick is to pray with humble confidence that they will be healed, unless God clearly and sovereignly has made it clear that this is not His will; and then to leave the matter to God </DD>
<DD>&nbsp;</DD></DL>c. James will remind us that mutual confession and prayer bring healing, both physically and spiritually; these free us from the heavy burdens (physically and spiritually) of sin not dealt with, and put us in line with the powerful workings of the Holy Spirit." David Guzik&nbsp;

&nbsp;

1. In James it says [You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.] 4:2+3

Questions Did Jesus heal everyone? And was every healing that he did, done instantly?

I disagree with this David guy. If your prayer isn't answered, you just don't sit back and blame God, saying "oh he works in mysterious ways".
Get back in there and find out what the problem is, and keep pressing untill God tells you. There could be many factors to why prayers are not answered, or delayed.

"You can either believe and recieve, or doubt and do without" Andrew Wormack.

[Chloe]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
1. In James it says [You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.] 4:2+3

Questions Did Jesus heal everyone? And was every healing that he did, done instantly?

I disagree with this David guy. If your prayer isn't answered, you just don't sit back and blame God, saying "oh he works in mysterious ways".
Get back in there and find out what the problem is, and keep pressing untill God tells you. There could be many factors to why prayers are not answered, or delayed.

"You can either believe and recieve, or doubt and do without" Andrew Wormack.

&nbsp;

Actually no, Jesus did not heal everyone.&nbsp;

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to His will, he heareth us. 1 John 5:14

We are not guaranteed healing or wealth period.&nbsp; Tell people in third world countries who are Christians that they are poor and sick because they lack faith or are in sin.&nbsp;

Just like the gifts of the Spirit, they are given according to the will of God, and so God heals according to His will and for His purpose.&nbsp; If you did not believe that you were guaranteed good health and wealth, would you you still follow Jesus?&nbsp; This life is not all about us, our health and wealth, seeking all that we can possibly attain, it is about serving God and doing His will.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Chloe
&nbsp;

Actually no, Jesus did not heal everyone.&nbsp;

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to His will, he heareth us. 1 John 5:14

We are not guaranteed healing or wealth period.&nbsp; Tell people in third world countries who are Christians that they are poor and sick because they lack faith or are in sin.&nbsp;

Just like the gifts of the Spirit, they are given according to the will of God, and so God heals according to His will and for His purpose.&nbsp; If you did not believe that you were guaranteed good health and wealth, would you you still follow Jesus?&nbsp; This life is not all about us, our health and wealth, seeking all that we can possibly attain, it is about serving God and doing His will.

Why didn't Jesus heal everyone?

Do these third world countrys put God first? Do they have "In God we Trust"? Does there president ask the nation to pray?

I wouldn't tell anyone that they don't receive because lack of faith, I would tell them it could and most likely is there unbelief.
["If you can! All things are possible to him who believes." Immediately the boy's father cried out and began saying, "I do believe; help my unbelief."] Mark 9:24

This life is not about serving God and doing his will.

[Andrew]

Chloe,

quote:"We are not guaranteed healing or wealth period.Ê"

i do not know what you mean by "guaranteed".
but there's one thing that you simply cannot deny: That healing and prosperity is part of the cross -- they are part and parcel of redemption/Christ's work on the cross. It's already done by Christ whether you agree or not.

So to deny that is to deny the work of Jesus. I gave the reasons here:

post 39:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/21907-4.html

perhaps you missed it.

God has done everything thru the cross. Now its up to us to find out what our inheritance is as joint-heirs with Christ.

if we say that healing is not guaranteed, then we must also say that salvation is not guranteed. if we say that God does not want to heal some, then we must also say that God does not want to save some. NO, both have been freely given, now its up to us to believe and receive, or doubt and go without.

[LouisBooth]

"You missed the point a healing took place"

yes, in God's time. At a point in your life God did not want you to be healed. That point for some people can last till death. that's the point you're missing.

"If I didn't pray for God to help me fight against sin, my knee would most likely be 100 percent. "

I'd have to disagree with you on this. There was purpose for your knee not being 100% and it is being fufilled as God' wants it. Maybe that will change and you'll get it back to 100% but for now, its not his will to have you healed it seems.

[LouisBooth]

"if we say that healing is not guaranteed, then we must also say that salvation is not guranteed. "

This is not true andrew because one has nothing to do with the other. One has to do with sin and the other because we live in a fallen world. YOu can't link them together.

[Chloe]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Why didn't Jesus heal everyone?

Do these third world countrys put God first? Do they have "In God we Trust"? Does there president ask the nation to pray?

I wouldn't tell anyone that they don't receive because lack of faith, I would tell them it could and most likely is there unbelief.
["If you can! All things are possible to him who believes." Immediately the boy's father cried out and began saying, "I do believe; help my unbelief."] Mark 9:24

This life is not about serving God and doing his will.

What does having, "In God We Trust" on&nbsp;our money and a president who asks&nbsp;us to pray, have to do with the poor&nbsp;Christians in 3rd world countries?&nbsp; What is the difference between lack of faith and unbelief?

So you think that Jesus saying all things are possible means that if I believe I will receive a Rolls Royce, I will infact receive it?&nbsp; Or if I lose a limb and if I believe it, I will grow a new one?&nbsp;

So what is this life is about, according to you?

&nbsp;

[Chloe]

Originally posted by Andrew
Chloe,

quote:"We are not guaranteed healing or wealth period.Ê"

i do not know what you mean by "guaranteed".
but there's one thing that you simply cannot deny: That healing and prosperity is part of the cross -- they are part and parcel of redemption/Christ's work on the cross. It's already done by Christ whether you agree or not.

So to deny that is to deny the work of Jesus. I gave the reasons here:

post 39:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/21907-4.html

perhaps you missed it.

God has done everything thru the cross. Now its up to us to find out what our inheritance is as joint-heirs with Christ.

if we say that healing is not guaranteed, then we must also say that salvation is not guranteed. if we say that God does not want to heal some, then we must also say that God does not want to save some. NO, both have been freely given, now its up to us to believe and receive, or doubt and go without.

So Jesus died so we could be millionaires and live to be 120 years old and die peacefully in our sleep?

Jesus did not die so that we could attain material wealth and riches, or even so we could live to a ripe old age without a hint of&nbsp;sickness or disease.&nbsp;

Jesus died so that we could be saved from the penalty of sin and so that we could live eternally in His presence.&nbsp;

When Jesus died on the cross, it was for&nbsp;that which&nbsp;is eternal, our souls, for everything else will pass away.&nbsp;

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Chloe
What does having, "In God We Trust" on&nbsp;our money and a president who asks&nbsp;us to pray, have to do with the poor&nbsp;Christians in 3rd world countries?&nbsp; What is the difference between lack of faith and unbelief?

So you think that Jesus saying all things are possible means that if I believe I will receive a Rolls Royce, I will infact receive it?&nbsp; Or if I lose a limb and if I believe it, I will grow a new one?&nbsp;

So what is this life is about, according to you?

&nbsp;

Why didn't Jesus heal everyone?

The poor.
Who are these poor Chirstians in the third world coutrys? What do they believe in? This country was founded so that are forfathers could pray and worship how they pleased. They didn't start off with money, but over time wise living helped them to succeed. I think that healing is a big enough topic if you want to start one on prosperity then do it, but lets keep this on healings.

Faith and Unbelief.
If you pray for something to happen, you have faith. You stepped out in faith. If you doubt while you pray that is unbelief. You have faith enough to pray, but unbelief enough to counter act your prayer.

Rolls Royce.
What Jesus wants you to pray for, are things that have to do with the kingdom of God. Whatever edifys the church, this is what God wants you to pray for. Nothing wrong with a Rolls, but I would never pray for one.I pray for wisdom, and that will effect my actions in financial and other areas of my life. This might give me the money to buy a nice car, I would prefer a Viper over a Rolls. :P
But the money would be better spent, helping the body of Christ.

Loss of Limb.
Did Jesus ever restore a missing body part?

Whats this life about, you ask?
Thats easy.
Its about a personal relationship with God.
Love the Lord with all your heart. How can you love the Lord if you don't let him do the things that he wants to do for you?
I go through the day talking to God alot, and he talks to me. When there is a problem, I pray. If I am sick, I pray. But for the most part, God teachs me things about the kingdom of heaven.He is a practical joker to.
I even heard Joyce Myers say this week, how she is a walking prayer. And how she doesn't just make a time slot for prayer, but that when ever something comes up that should be prayed over, she does it right there.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"You missed the point a healing took place"

yes, in God's time. At a point in your life God did not want you to be healed. That point for some people can last till death. that's the point you're missing.

"If I didn't pray for God to help me fight against sin, my knee would most likely be 100 percent. "

I'd have to disagree with you on this. There was purpose for your knee not being 100% and it is being fufilled as God' wants it. Maybe that will change and you'll get it back to 100% but for now, its not his will to have you healed it seems.

When should you pray for a healing?

When should you expect it? Should you expect it?

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Chloe
So Jesus died so we could be millionaires and live to be 120 years old and die peacefully in our sleep?

Jesus did not die so that we could attain material wealth and riches, or even so we could live to a ripe old age without a hint of&nbsp;sickness or disease.&nbsp;

Jesus died so that we could be saved from the penalty of sin and so that we could live eternally in His presence.&nbsp;

When Jesus died on the cross, it was for&nbsp;that which&nbsp;is eternal, our souls, for everything else will pass away.&nbsp;

[These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.] John 15:11

Thus saith the Lord!

[My son, do not forget my teaching,
But let your heart keep my commandments;
For length of days and years of life,
And peace they will add to you.
Do not let kindness and truth leave you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart.
So you will find favor and good repute
In the sight of God and man.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
It will be healing to your body,
And refreshment to your bones.
Honor the Lord from your wealth,
And from the first of all your produce;
So your barns will be filled with plenty,
And your vats will overflow with new wine.
My son, do not refect the discipline of the Lord,
Or loathe His reproof,
For whom the Lord loves He reproves,
Even as a father, the son in whom he delights.
How blessed is the man who finds wisdom,
And the man who gains understanding.
For its profit is better than the profit of silver,
And its gain than fine gold.
She is more precious than jewels;
And nothing you desire compares with her.
Long life is in her right hand;
In her left hand are riches and honor.
Her ways are pleasant ways,
And all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who hold her fast.
The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;
By understanding He established the heavens.
By His knowledge the deeps were broken up,
And the skies drip with dew.
My son, let them not depart from your sight;
Keep sound wisdom and discretion,
So they will be life to your soul,
And adornment to your neck
Then you will walk in your way securely,
And your foot will not stumble.
When you lie down, you will not be afraid;
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet .
Do not be afraid of sudden fear,
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes;
For the Lord will be your confidence,
And will keep your foot from being caught.] Proverbs 3:1-26

[LouisBooth]

"When should you pray for a healing?

When should you expect it? Should you expect it?"

Always pray for healing, but expect to get a reply of yes, no or wait.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by LouisBooth

Always pray for healing, but expect to get a reply of yes, no or wait.

That's extra-biblical teaching that the church came up with when it became politically incorrect to tell people that perhaps their prayers were not being answered because they were not abiding in Him. IOW. . .they were being disobedient, or they needed to become more informed on what the Word teaches on whatever they are praying for.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"When should you pray for a healing?

When should you expect it? Should you expect it?"

Always pray for healing, but expect to get a reply of yes, no or wait.

Tell me your personal storys of being or doing healings/miracles.

[Andrew]

chloe,

u need to back up your statements with scripture or at least respond to the scriptures we have given, not just give your opinions.

--------------

Amen Pray4Israel!

My Pastor says there are 2 ways to receive healing. By the gifts of the Holy Spirit or by the Word.

A sick person cant only depend on the gifts of healings, becos it is as the Spirit wills. But a sure fire way of receving is by the Word. Bro Hagin calls the latter the better way -- a way which every Christian ought to know. ie find out what the Word says abt sickness and healing and then believe and stand on it!

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by Pray4Isrel
Something neat that my pastor used to say every Sunday morning is to come to church with a spirit of expectancy.&nbsp; Expect that God will work in your life - He always does.&nbsp; Never be lazy and think you must wait.&nbsp; Today is the day of salvation!

Amem

[But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all men generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from teh Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.] James 1:5-8

If your prayers are never answered, I am not just talking about healings, then "let him ask of God" for wisdom.

I am not perfect, not everyone of my prayers have been answered, but this belief that God has showed me is working. I know this is the way, if your way isn't working, then stop making excusses and start humbleing yourself before God. May man be found a lier and God to be true.

[LouisBooth]

"That's extra-biblical teaching that the church came up"

NOt at all, Paul got a no as did Job.


"Tell me your personal storys of being or doing healings/miracles."

I have seen people mirciously healed of cancer. Its totally amazing. They went in and a clear stop was found. Biopsy..meligant. A week later, do it again, and bam, its gone. God is crazy cool like that. I've seen a few healings and miracles just like that. Any other questions?

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"That's extra-biblical teaching that the church came up"

NOt at all, Paul got a no as did Job.


"Tell me your personal storys of being or doing healings/miracles."

I have seen people mirciously healed of cancer. Its totally amazing. They went in and a clear stop was found. Biopsy..meligant. A week later, do it again, and bam, its gone. God is crazy cool like that. I've seen a few healings and miracles just like that. Any other questions?

Well thats good you saw one person healed.That is great and all, but do you really think that God only wants to work gifts of the Spirit once and awhile? You never mentioned anything in your life personaly, why is that?

I heard Andrew Wormack speak this week, talking about the church that he got saved in. He said the Baptist church believes in healings, and will even pray for them to happen from time to time. But if any of them happened they would be real surprised. And this seems to be the attitude that you have.

[LouisBooth]

"You never mentioned anything in your life personaly, why is that? "

I was deathly sick. As for other things I've had healings, but they can be explained :)

"But if any of them happened they would be real surprised. And this seems to be the attitude that you have."

Not at all. I expect great things from God, I just don't tell him what to do, nor do I rule out him saying no in certain cases, because its HIS will, not mine.

[Andrew]

So basically the question boils down to can a Christian ask God for healing expecting to be healed.

there are 3 positions you can take:

1. God does not heal anymore (cessationist)
2. God does heal, but its a 50-50 thing. ie he might not want to in your case
3. Healing is God's will for all. it is part of the cross.

most Christians take 2. but the danger is this. when u do fall sick, the devil will have you believing that you belong to the group that God says "no" too. in fact, most Christians who take 2 fight for the right to belong to this grp. strange.

[1hope]

I hope no one minds that I have been copying a lot of your posts and saving them. Some of you have really helped me with your views and I like to go back and reread them from time to time.

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"You never mentioned anything in your life personaly, why is that? "

I was deathly sick. As for other things I've had healings, but they can be explained :)

"But if any of them happened they would be real surprised. And this seems to be the attitude that you have."

Not at all. I expect great things from God, I just don't tell him what to do, nor do I rule out him saying no in certain cases, because its HIS will, not mine.

If it can be explained, then it sounds like you got medical attention. You didn't recieve a healing.
What about colds? Do you think that you need to be on your death bed before you can have God work in your life? A cold was the first on many things that God healed this year in me.
How can you expect great things, if you don't see little things?

I wasn't aware that Job asked for a healing, did he?
We assume that Paul had a sickness, some say his eyes, but it was a thorn in his side that he was praying for.
When the disciples failed to cast out the demon, Jesus rebuked them, why?
Why didn't Jesus heal everyone? What was he amazed about when he couldn't heal or do many miracles in some towns?

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by 1hope
I hope no one minds that I have been copying a lot of your posts and saving them. Some of you have really helped me with your views and I like to go back and reread them from time to time.

Yes we mind!! :(

Give them back, thats stealing. How dare you learn about God's way, you must be selfish and do it yourself. :P

[1hope]

eep!!...I am deleting them as we speak.....please don't sue!!!

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Andrew
So basically the question boils down to can a Christian ask God for healing expecting to be healed.

there are 3 positions you can take:

1. God does not heal anymore (cessationist)
2. God does heal, but its a 50-50 thing. ie he might not want to in your case
3. Healing is God's will for all. it is part of the cross.

most Christians take 2. but the danger is this. when u do fall sick, the devil will have you believing that you belong to the group that God says "no" too. in fact, most Christians who take 2 fight for the right to belong to this grp. strange.

And to add to your point Andrew, scripture clearly states that you only get a "no" when you ask amiss.&nbsp; So, according to what Jesus said, "if you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you."&nbsp; It's impossible to abide in Him and ask amiss, therefore getting a "no".

Pretty clear to me!&nbsp; :pink:

And weather the reader wants to believe it was implied or not Paul did not get a no.&nbsp; Even the Living Bible corrected that error in their revised edition.&nbsp; And nowhere, can it be implied that Job received a no.&nbsp; He not only got back everything he lost but even more.

&nbsp;

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by 1hope
I hope no one minds that I have been copying a lot of your posts and saving them. Some of you have really helped me with your views and I like to go back and reread them from time to time.

I do it too&nbsp; :D

[Andrew]

quote:"We assume that Paul had a sickness, some say his eyes, but it was a thorn in his side that he was praying for."

sunstone,

i explain in detail what Paul's thorn is here:
http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/thorn.html

It is not sickness or some eye disease. :)

[humanimal]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"That's extra-biblical teaching that the church came up"

NOt at all, Paul got a no as did Job.

I have seen people mirciously healed of cancer. Its totally amazing. They went in and a clear stop was found. Biopsy..meligant. A week later, do it again, and bam, its gone. God is crazy cool like that. I've seen a few healings and miracles just like that. Any other questions?

Thing is god always tells me no. I agree with louis. God just does not want some of us saved or healed and so it does not matter what we say or do or want.

All i get is no s.

&nbsp;

[SnuP]

Then you are probably not abiding in Christ. I know that that sounds harsh but must of us don't remain in Christ. We spend most of our time doing our own will and not even thinking of the will of God. Jesus said that He only did what He saw that Father doing. How many people do you know that can say that? If you are in Christ than you will only do what you see that Father doing. This problem is also the biggest reason that so few people see the miraculus or healing.

[LouisBooth]

"most Christians who take 2 fight for the right to belong to this grp. strange."

No, we don't. I can see clearly when God says no and Satan says no thanks.

"If it can be explained, then it sounds like you got medical attention. "

Nope, I recieved no medical attention. I had a bump that came up on my arm, it was hard and I went in for a biopsy. They even took it out. About 2 weeks later I got another one. it went away. No medical attention at all.

"How can you expect great things, if you don't see little things?"

I agree. I just don't attribute getting a "cold" one day, praying about it and it leaving the next day to God. Its our body working as God intended it to to fight off infection, not some miricle healing.

"I wasn't aware that Job asked for a healing, did he?"

You think he didn't?


"Why didn't Jesus heal everyone? "

One of two reasons.

1. It wasn't God's will for them to be healed
2. they didn't want to be healed.



"It's impossible to abide in Him and ask amiss, therefore getting a "no". "

Exactly so when you ask for healing and he says no, you're not abiding in him about it.

[SnuP]

Originally posted by LouisBooth

"It's impossible to abide in Him and ask amiss, therefore getting a "no". "

Exactly so when you ask for healing and he says no, you're not abiding in him about it.

So He never says no when you remain in Him. :clap:

[didaskalos]

This offering from Pastor Phil:

"...We have a better covenant than the old covenant, the scripture tells us in Hebrews 9:10. Better. Now then Psalm 103.1-5 exists in the Old Testament. In this it tells us that God takes away all our diseases...and so if all our diseases were promised to be healed in OT then ne must must be better.

Some people think that the only thing that has got better is salvation but Old Testament people are saved and in heaven.

So New must have brought something new...better. And of course it brought Jesus.

Now then Jesus is alive now and still ministering.

He did not baptised anyone in Holy Spirit whilst on earth and yet as heralded by John as the baptiser in the Spirit.

Hebrews 13:8 says Jesus is the same today as yesterday and if he is alive then still operating the same way.

In John 16 it tells us that Jesus promised to send Holy Spirit if he ascended into heaven and that Holy Spirit would bring Jesus to us all over the earth some that Jesus could be manifesting in thousands of places all at the same time.

This is to our advantage. When sickness come no need to go to Jerusalem. Might not get there. Can contact God directly ourselves in whatever area we are living in. Through the Holy Spirit.

This good news. Jesus still heals today! Amen.

Pastorphil ..."

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"most Christians who take 2 fight for the right to belong to this grp. strange."

No, we don't. I can see clearly when God says no and Satan says no thanks.

"If it can be explained, then it sounds like you got medical attention. "

Nope, I recieved no medical attention. I had a bump that came up on my arm, it was hard and I went in for a biopsy. They even took it out. About 2 weeks later I got another one. it went away. No medical attention at all.

"How can you expect great things, if you don't see little things?"

I agree. I just don't attribute getting a "cold" one day, praying about it and it leaving the next day to God. Its our body working as God intended it to to fight off infection, not some miricle healing.

"I wasn't aware that Job asked for a healing, did he?"

You think he didn't?


"Why didn't Jesus heal everyone? "

One of two reasons.

1. It wasn't God's will for them to be healed
2. they didn't want to be healed.



"It's impossible to abide in Him and ask amiss, therefore getting a "no". "

Exactly so when you ask for healing and he says no, you're not abiding in him about it.

Did you pray for the second lump to go away?

Colds and aches.
Only one cold has stuck with me this year, and the whole 3 or 4 days I was praying and fighting it. The first time I prayed for a cold, it "instantly" went away, you couldn't snap your fingers faster!!
Most of the develope so I pray for them and over night they disapear, while I watch alot of people around me get sick. I have prayed for many colds in other people with very, very good results.
Do you pray for every single cold or ache? If it doesn't work do you still keep fighting?

Job
Show me where Job prayed for a healing, the only thing I remember was him cursing the day he was born, and rebuking his friends for rebuking him. Then God came and rebuked him. So show me where he prayed for a healing.

Jesus limited.
Show me where it says that God doesn't want to heal everyone.
Jesus "could not" heal them because of "there unbelief", and he was amazed at it. He said "just believe", and you could move mountains. Didn't he curse the fig tree? Didn't the disciples heal and cast out demons?
The times that they didn't succeed why did Jesus rebuke them?

[LouisBooth]

"So He never says no when you remain in Him. "

Exactly snup! But that doesn't mean abbiding him clears you from sickness or hardship.

"Did you pray for the second lump to go away?"

Yup. I did, though that doesn't discount what I did to help make it go away.


"Most of the develope so I pray for them and over night they disapear, "

Yup, that's your body fighting the infection at night, classic example of how great the body is. No miricle healing at all. Just a miricle of God knowing how to make a human body.


"So show me where he prayed for a healing."

I ask you one question in response. 1. was Job a righteous faithful man before he was struck down with sickness and hardship?

"Show me where it says that God doesn't want to heal everyone."

*sigh* I showed you where he didn't heal people. this was not because of their unbelief but simply because he didn't choose to do so. You can't assume things nor insert your own thoughts on the text. it simply says he didn't do it. thus He choose not to. He also in sections of text didn't want to heal the person but did so because they didn't believe that he had the power to forgive sins. That's VERY clear in his response to them.

"He said "just believe", and you could move mountains"

No, he said if its in God's will AND you believe you can move mountains. That's the point. YOUR faith is NOT greater then God. That's quite unbiblical and EXACTLY what the WOF people teach.

[SnuP]

Matthew 17:
20He replied, “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

Matthew 21:
21Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

Originally posted by LouisBooth
No, he said if its in God's will AND you believe you can move mountains. That's the point. YOUR faith is NOT greater then God. That's quite unbiblical and EXACTLY what the WOF people teach.

Louis, your statement does not match scripture. Your statement is unbiblical.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"So He never says no when you remain in Him. "

Exactly snup! But that doesn't mean abbiding him clears you from sickness or hardship

See that does not make sence. If I remain in Him and ask Him to heal me the He will say yes. He will heal evertime that I ask.

[SUNSTONE]

LouisBooth

Job
I ask again, where did Job pray?

Lump.
You prayed for the second lump and it went away, so why do you say it was for other reasons.

Cold.
Now you know that a cold or fever will stick around for days, like the "other people that I watched get them, while I was healed."
What about the instant one being healed?

Isaiah 53: 4+5
[Surely our griefs (sickness) He Hemself bore, And our sorrows(Pains) He carried;......
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him And by His scourging we "are" healed.]

Matthew 8:16+17
[And when evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and "healed all" who were "ill" in order that what was spoken through "Isaiah" the prophet might be fufilled, saying, "HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES, AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES."]

This is proof that that scripture that Isaiah said was talking about physical healings. Brother you have many here confessing healings and miracles, maybe its time to check your understanding in this area.
I believe you are a spirit filled Christian, but don't let the devil deny what Jesus has bought you. I too thought like you, but the scriptures don't lie, we do to try and make excuses for are failures. The devil is a master at trying to steal are rights as believers.

[debs]

Hello 1hope. During the times you were prayed for did you experiance a partial or full temporary release from this dis-ease or not?..debs

[LouisBooth]

"Louis, your statement does not match scripture. Your statement is unbiblical."

It perfectly matches scripture. Are you saying that you can tell God what to do snup? Let me refer to you Job chapter 38 :)

"See that does not make sence. If I remain in Him and ask Him to heal me the He will say yes. He will heal evertime that I ask."

no he will not. Sometimes it is his will for sickness to happen. that's exactly what the bible says. Try reading Ec 7:14 sometime.

"You prayed for the second lump and it went away, so why do you say it was for other reasons."

Because there is a logical explaination. Sometimes God's hand isn't DIRECTLY involved. He usually lets medical science do the work.

"What about the instant one being healed?"

Maybe a miricle healing, maybe you never had a cold to begin with.

"This is proof that that scripture that Isaiah said was talking about physical healings. Brother you have many here confessing healings and miracles, maybe its time to check your understanding in this area. "

*sigh* I did a long time ago, and continue to do so. Its pretty prideful of you to imply that I didn't. Just another mark of someone putting his views before Gods. God allows sickness in faithful people, as seen in Job. Ecc also tells us that he sends us good and bad times. The one thing that is constant is him being there for us. That's it. "ye though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, thou art with me, Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." don't see anything in that Pslam about not having to go through the valley, just that he will comfort us while we are. Sorry to tell you christians get sick. Christians are faithful and can even die of sickness and be faithful.

"The devil is a master at trying to steal are rights as believers."

i agree, but that's not the case here. Here is he decieving you into believing that 1. God isn't sovergn 2. just claim healing and it will happen (thus people die or are guilt ridden about not being faithful enough). Satan loves what you're doing to Christ's bride. Realize that God allows sickness and sometimes causes it. Read job and read Ecc.

[SnuP]

well you've missed the point again. Ask and it shall be given you.
does it need to be any clearer.

[LouisBooth]

"Ask and it shall be given you."

Yes, if its in God's will. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteous name.. God sometimes says no to things you ask. If you're perfectly in his will, you won't ask for them, and sometimes the "thing" is healing.

[SnuP]

Smith Wigglesworth would agree. He sometimes refused to heal people because it isn't God's will to heal someone with out faith or is unrepentent.
Smith Wigglesworth would even tell these people that. If only the faith healer now adays had this discernment.

[LouisBooth]

"He sometimes refused to heal people because it isn't God's will to heal someone with out faith or is unrepentent."

*sigh* and if its not God's will and they are with faith and have repented.

[SnuP]

then by His stripes we are and were healed.

You can throw out scripture if you want to but it still there.

Kind of like saying that a person with a cold naturally got healed of it in one day. now that is funny and also not possible, But you have a way of retionallizing everything.

[SUNSTONE]

LouisBooth

Job
I ask yet again! Where did Job pray?

Ecc. 7:14
In the day of prosperity be happy, But in the day of adversity consider God has made the one as well as the other So that man may not discover anything that will be after him.]
Thats right, God made trials. Trials are tests, testing you on what you learned. If you don't understand or use your spiritual gifts, then you are the one building your house on sand.

Medical Science.
How long has medical science been at work? They can't even cure the common cold, and you want to put your faith into that? I mean use it if you have to but do what Paul says, and earnestly desire spiritual gifts....1 cor 13:1

Isaiah 53 + Matt 8:17
You can argue with me all you want, you can discredit my "healing" of a cold, not a "miracle" there is a difference.
But it will not mean a thing to me, unless you use scripture and also explain these many scriptures that me and others have put up.

Christians get sick, and go through trials. No one ever denied that, but its what you do with those trials that makes the difference between a house on sand and one on the rock.

You believe that God only heals sometimes, even thou this is not biblical.
Tell me where it says that God only heals sometimes, because James says totaly opposite?

[1hope]

Hello 1hope. During the times you were prayed for did you experience a partial or full temporary release from this dis-ease or not?..debs



In the physical..no, however, God has been opening my eyes to A LOT since this tread started. I have no doubt that it is his will for me to "Be made whole" in every area, including my health. I do know to that there are OBSTICALS that I have been allowing to block my healing that I need to deal with first. SnuP said..Quietly ask Jesus what He would say to you concerning the memory. Follow whatever leading He gives you and believe that it is Him leading. If He takes you to another memory, ask the same question. Keep asking the question until all of the pain is removed from your memories and follow every leading. He will speak to you, and He will heal you. First the spirit, then the soul, then the flesh.
THAT has definitely been a lot of help. I'm not healed yet, but I believe soon I will be. TRUST ME when that happens you will all know about it!

[Andrew]

" First the spirit, then the soul, then the flesh. THAT has definitely been a lot of help."

you're getting it 1hope! There's even a scripture for that:

3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

how much physical/outward prosperity (in areas of health, finances, relationships etc) you have depends on how much inward/soul revelation you have.

if your sickness' root cause has to do with the soul, then deal directly with that and the physical healing will start to manifest.

Fight the good fight of faith bro!

[1hope]

ANDREW..yourself and several others have REALLY been a lot of help to me!!!......but...I think also, yourself and several others haven noticed the SYMBOL under my name...uh...right in front of the flag...(trying not to blush here) just wanted to sorta bring that to some people attention..thanks

[SnuP]

Hey sis. I'm glad that we are able to help. We'll keep praying for you that God will give you the right direction and help you deal with what ever He shows you. I am glad that you are using your discernment well.

I am also praying for Andrew's eye sight :P :D&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; He has yet to spell my name right.

Andrew, we do thank God for you even if you miss some of the details.

Blessing to the both of you

IN Christ

SnuP

[SUNSTONE]

I would have to disagree with God wanting you right before he does anything with you.
For the simple fact that I have seen, and done things in myself and others that have or had(me) sin issues to deal with.

I believe this is the problem that you are having, you "believe" that you need to take care of some issues before God can or will do anything for you. When you came to Christ and excepted his righteousness for your own, did you give up your sins totally? Were you free from practicing sin from that point on? I don't know no one who was totaly free from sin or even habitual sins after they excepted, ATLEAST NOT RIGHT AWAY.

Don't get me wrong, fight sin and unforgivness in you. As a matter of fact you are free from that too, but you just have to get to a point that you believe it. In other words you have been believing in a lie if you think you can't get rid of any sin or unforgivness in you. All these issues are seperate areas in your life, the more you give them to God or use God to fix them, the more he can use you. Its a sowing and reaping thing!

[For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of POWER, and LOVE, and DISCIPLINE.] 2tim 1:7

[ I can do all things through Him who strengthens me] Phil 4:13

[SnuP]

originally posted by sunstone
I would have to disagree with God wanting you right before he does anything with you.

Accually I agree with you. God is soveriegn and He can do what ever He wills. I to have found instances where God healed without the person repenting of the cause of the sickness.

But I have found that the majority of the time God has a greater desire that you repent of the sin then to heal you. Please do not think that I am putting God in a box.

Its just a matter of, there is a cause, remove the cause and the healing is easy to grab a hold of. But the Bible tells us that if you believe that you can have what ever you ask. Sometimes it is hard to believe God though. So for those people I offer this process. By removing the sin, it becomes easier for some one to believe God for a healing. And along the way, they learn that God really does&nbsp;want to talk with them and their relationship depends. Giving them a stronger relationship is more important to me then getting them healed.&nbsp; But they will find that a deeper relationship helps them gain many things that also include healing.&nbsp; I have long said that everything comes from the relationship, everything.&nbsp; That isn't to say that you cannot gain the promises of God without a deep relationship, because God is still sovereign and He has provided many ways in the word for the promises to be gained.&nbsp; But in the relationship, He can instruct you and help you, which makes everything very easy.

[SUNSTONE]

The bible teachs that nothing keeps us from the love of God.
But if we sin then that gives the devil room to condemn us, and we listen to him, thinking that God is not talking to us anymore. This simply isn't true, I learned that about 2 years ago.
I couldn't get rid of a couple of sins, so I stopped running from God. I would do the sin and while I was doing it I realized that God was still talking to me. He wasn't condemning at all, in fact he was very loving. A true friend. Now a few times I can remember God sitting me down to talk to me about my life decisions.

Now we have to take everything into perspective, some people are just not mature enough in the Lord to do many spiritual things.
We as Christians look at the next brother or sister and think they should be doing this or that. But its God who is teaching them, and in time, if they choose to do God's will they too will be doing "this or that". But perhaps it will be a different "this or that" because we are one body with many parts.

Example.
Lambslove believes that war is just wrong and that Christians should never fight. This is totally against biblical principles, "but" she is a women.
A loving sister in Christ, with all there is to learn about the kingdom of heaven, is fighting something that is important in her walk?
No, as a matter of fact it would change the way she thinks and that will change her actions.
We as the body need her where she is and where she is going. She is always praying for people in the "Prayer, and praise reports" region.
She is my sister in Christ and we can disagree on this, and it doesn't make a difference at all!

[SnuP]

well now I have to disagree with you. Your mind set can always limit God. If you are stubern, then it will be difficult for you to even hear God on the subject. Mindsets matter, an incorrect one is the devils playground. The only true answer is to remain open to God and draw close to Him. It is the answer to everything. The thing that you have failed to realize is that altough you had this sin problem you still had an opened heart to hear God's correction. God never condemns us, He never stops loving us, and He never stops talking to us. The real question is whether or not we are listening.

Sunstone, I am not talking from theory. I am involved in a deliverence ministery that uses the technics that I ha