Do You Force Your Children To Attend Church?

[Tangnefedd]

I was forced to attend a pentecostal church as a kid where I was spiritually abused. When I left home to marry at 19 both my husband and I were determined that our kids would not be forced to go to church if they didn't wish to do so. In consequence they all opted to attend as children, even though we didn't go. Our eldest daughter (35) is an Anglican Priest.

I feel that whilst one should explain to children why we celebrate Christian festivals and one's own standpoint where faith, or lack of it, is concerned, it is not for us to force a child to believe as we do.

My husband is a convinced atheist but has supported our daughter in her decision to become a priest. He attended her ordination and priesting and is now helping her with her Masters degree studies in theology, in which he has a degree himself. As parents we should support our children, but not coerce them.

[Lisa0315]

There is scriptural reference to "forcing" children. Remember, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!" If it was good enough for Joshua's family, it is good enough for mine. Also, what about raising kids up in the way they should go, and in the admonition of the Lord?


I only started attending church 18 months ago. My kids were 13 and 16 at the time, and, yes, I made them go with me. My son loved it. My daughter did not and resisted for awhile. A few months later, she thanked me for making her go.

I guess there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Just a thought...

Lisa

[Tangnefedd]

I don't think anything Joshua had to say was worth taking note of as the man was a mass murderer, he committed one of the worst atrocities in the OT!

[Lisa0315]

I don't think anything Joshua had to say was worth taking note of as the man was a mass murderer, he committed one of the worst atrocities in the OT!

Joshua did as he was commanded by God.

[jasperbound]

I was forced to attend a pentecostal church as a kid where I was spiritually abused. When I left home to marry at 19 both my husband and I were determined that our kids would not be forced to go to church if they didn't wish to do so. In consequence they all opted to attend as children, even though we didn't go. Our eldest daughter (35) is an Anglican Priest.

So, you won't force your children to do anything they do not want to, or does this apply only to church?

[jasperbound]

I don't think anything Joshua had to say was worth taking note of as the man was a mass murderer, he committed one of the worst atrocities in the OT!

As if the people Joshua were killed were saints. When one thinks about it, killing Nazis was mass murder in World War II.

[New_Wineskin]

I was forced to attend a pentecostal church as a kid where I was spiritually abused. When I left home to marry at 19 both my husband and I were determined that our kids would not be forced to go to church if they didn't wish to do so. In consequence they all opted to attend as children, even though we didn't go. Our eldest daughter (35) is an Anglican Priest.

I feel that whilst one should explain to children why we celebrate Christian festivals and one's own standpoint where faith, or lack of it, is concerned, it is not for us to force a child to believe as we do.

My husband is a convinced atheist but has supported our daughter in her decision to become a priest. He attended her ordination and priesting and is now helping her with her Masters degree studies in theology, in which he has a degree himself. As parents we should support our children, but not coerce them.

Not only was I forced to go to meetings but , as Catholics , my parents were forced to force me to go to them . There is no Scriptural ( ie law ) basis for attending meetings . Now , Catholics have an excuse because they go by doctrine and admit it . No such excuse is available for those "saying" that they go by the law ( ie Scriptures ) but then push for meeting attendance and even membership .

[Forest]

Do You Force Your Children To Attend Church?

Force, implies that they don't want to do whatever they are being "forced" to do.

So, no I do not force my children to go to church.

[Lisa0315]

Not only was I forced to go to meetings but , as Catholics , my parents were forced to force me to go to them . There is no Scriptural ( ie law ) basis for attending meetings . Now , Catholics have an excuse because they go by doctrine and admit it . No such excuse is available for those "saying" that they go by the law ( ie Scriptures ) but then push for meeting attendance and even membership .

There is scriptural basis for attending church.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching

[New_Wineskin]

There is scriptural basis for attending church.


This isn't about attending church but about forcing people to do so .

Anyway , there couldn't possibly be a Scriptural basis for attending church . One *cannot* "attend" church . We *are* the church . And , the groups that you call "churches" are only exclusive clubs that create identities to isolate each from others - they are not churches .

[Entertaining_Angels]

Not a problem here, our kids love to go to church. Our seven year old is actually involved in activities at several different churches but he really loves the Lord. God has really touched his life. We'll see as he grows older but he wants to be a missionary which is more than fine with us. God is working in his life and I'm just honored to be a part of it.

[JVD]

I don't force my children to go to church. I have 4 children who have always gone to church. They practically force me to go. There are some days that I would rather do something else but they don't want to miss it so I have to go even if I would rather not.

My oldest, now 19 and in college, asked if she could attend a different church when she turned 16 and had her drivers license. We allowed her to do that and she has grown in the Lord so much that it was obviously the right decision.

Sooo Tang... Joshua was a mass murderer? Apparently you accept the veracity of the OT concerning Joshua but have doubts about the gospels? There are 4 gospels written in much more recent times with much more supporting documentation yet you have doubts about Jesus but not Joshua.

[jasperbound]

This isn't about attending church but about forcing people to do so.

This is about treating children like children and not like adults, because they aren't adults yet. What's funny is that the same people who think it's wrong to force a child to go to church would most likely have no qualm forcing them to do other things, things that are much less important than eternal salvation. It really shows where one's priorities aren't.

Anyway , there couldn't possibly be a Scriptural basis for attending church . One *cannot* "attend" church . We *are* the church . And , the groups that you call "churches" are only exclusive clubs that create identities to isolate each from others - they are not churches .

Wow. Somebody had a bad experience with churches. That said, I wouldn't judge all churches based on those experiences just as I'm sure it'd be wrong for me to judge all Christians who do not go to a church as just being lazy, even though there are plenty of them. I do agree with you though that one does not need to go to a building for fellowship with other Christians centered around Christ.

[Tangnefedd]

If Joshua did as he was commanded by God then God is a homocidal maniac who makes Saddam look good! I don't believe that the violence in the OT has anthing to do with the bloke in the sky, God was, and still is, used as an excuse for atrocities! Many Christians on other sites are questioning the violence in the Bible that is supposed to be at God's request, and having a serious rethink about their faith.

I realise my posts aren't popular, I have had two unofficial warnings :D and will no doubt get banned from the site, which wont worry me as I post on plenty of other forums. Others are much more open, even American ones. I will continue to post from my liberal perspective as I believe it to be just as valid as the fundamentalist stuff that is prevalent on this forum!

[Entertaining_Angels]

I just don't get though why you feel you have to keep defending yourself and you have to keep mentioning how unpopular your views are. Do you do this in real life too?

Honestly, who cares? Speak your mind. If the powers that be decide you are on the wrong board, so be it. Why do you have to keep letting people know you'll always speak your mind (you think they don't know that?). These are only forums and not 'real life'.

Honestly, as somebody pointed out, I don't see you as being really very different from many of the fundamentists I've read here. I'm not sure what you believe about kindness but I believe that is always the best approach. If you're kind, people tend to respond in kindness even if they don't agree and if you get a rude reply, again, so what? Not worth getting the ol' knickers in a bunch (said in the kindest of ways :) )

God bless.

[Tangnefedd]

Actually I am not getting my knickers in a twist, others seem to be doing that over my posts, which have been pulled and now I have two warnings. I haven't notice that others have been exactly kind either, but I take the point.

Now I must have some brekkie before heading off to the supermarket.

[New_Wineskin]

This is about treating children like children and not like adults, because they aren't adults yet.


Not according to the title of the thread ... it is about forcing people to attend .

Saying that is saying to teach the children to havd no respect for people by giving *them* no respect . It is teaching them that one can buy righteousness from the Lord and that "going to church" is an actual command of the law ( which it isn't ) and that the law obtains salvation .


What's funny is that the same people who think it's wrong to force a child to go to church would most likely have no qualm forcing them to do other things, things that are much less important than eternal salvation. It really shows where one's priorities aren't.


I doubt that . But , I do think that a lot of people who are always yelling about "free will" and that the Lord doesn't want "robots" are saying the opposite to their children . What hypocracy . Not that you would do so but I know many that do . This isn't about teaching a child to look both ways before crossing the street . This is about a relationship with the Lord . Attending meetings is not about that but usually about sitting , standing , kneeling , and singing when someone tells them to - about looking at the bak of someone's head and listening to someone else - *that* is being a robot - no relational aspect in all of that .

Now , predestinational folk forcing their children show themselves to be hypocrites , as well .


Wow. Somebody had a bad experience with churches.


Why become a liar simply to make a personal attack ?


That said, I wouldn't judge all churches based on those experiences just as I'm sure it'd be wrong for me to judge all Christians who do not go to a church as just being lazy, even though there are plenty of them. I do agree with you though that one does not need to go to a building for fellowship with other Christians centered around Christ.

Ok . Thanks for some agreement .

If people don't treat children as people , they will teach them that the Lord deisres only actions and routine from them - just as the superstitious religions in ancient times . That is a huge reason why unbelievers look at christianity *as* superstitious . By forcing children to go to meetings , they are only passing along their religiousness which does the children no good whatsoever .

[Lisa0315]

This isn't about attending church but about forcing people to do so .

Anyway , there couldn't possibly be a Scriptural basis for attending church . One *cannot* "attend" church . We *are* the church . And , the groups that you call "churches" are only exclusive clubs that create identities to isolate each from others - they are not churches .

The state you live in forces you to send your children to school until they are 16. If you do not do this, you will go to jail. If your children wake up one morning and refuse to go to school, you make them go. No question. You have a choice in which you can choose public, private, or homeschooling, but your children are FORCED to attend school. The same principal applies to the spiritual upbringing of children. My husband and I are responsible for my children's spiritual education.

[Lisa0315]

If Joshua did as he was commanded by God then God is a homocidal maniac who makes Saddam look good! I don't believe that the violence in the OT has anthing to do with the bloke in the sky, God was, and still is, used as an excuse for atrocities! Many Christians on other sites are questioning the violence in the Bible that is supposed to be at God's request, and having a serious rethink about their faith.

I realise my posts aren't popular, I have had two unofficial warnings :D and will no doubt get banned from the site, which wont worry me as I post on plenty of other forums. Others are much more open, even American ones. I will continue to post from my liberal perspective as I believe it to be just as valid as the fundamentalist stuff that is prevalent on this forum!

Either you believe the Bible, or you don't. Joshua was obedient to God. Changing the Bible to suit your own sense of morality does not change the facts.

[heron]

"Saying that is saying to teach the children to have no respect for people by giving *them* no respect . It is teaching them that one can buy righteousness from the Lord and that "going to church" is an actual command of the law (which it isn't) and that the law obtains salvation."

Kids who don't want to attend church is a common problem, and I have watched many kids totally deny the faith when their parents don't allow them any input in decisions. If we want the best for our kids, we should find a way to make this work, not just follow rules.

I consider "train up a child in the way they should go" as advice to prepare them for making their own decisions. We can teach them how to make decisions as early as they can hear us. Sometimes that means giving up our own appearances...letting them wear mismatched clothes so they know how to carry the consequences of their actions...letting them attend a church with friends instead of their family church.

One solution for this lack of interest, is to take the kids on a round of different types of churches...spanish, messianic, traditional, charismatic, orthodox...to give them a sense of how diverse the body of Christ is. This means giving up a few of our own committments at church, in order to spend time on our children's growth.

There are also issues we can look at, rather than just dress and dump them.

1. Is there Sunday school class relevant, or are they just cutting out papers of toga men?
2. Do they get along with other kids there...is one person bullying them or tagging to closely ?
3. Is there too much repetition of scenery and ritual--should you sit in a different place, or encourage them to usher and greet people, or join a choir?
4. Do they feel like they contribute and have value there? For some people, it's easier to feel productive than to be entertained.
5. Are the youth groups too peppy, too clean, too shallow, or too personal for that particular child? Maybe they should hop to other churches' groups.

More suggestions welcome...

[Mashavu]

I realise my posts aren't popular, I have had two unofficial warnings :D and will no doubt get banned from the site, which wont worry me as I post on plenty of other forums. Others are much more open, even American ones. I will continue to post from my liberal perspective as I believe it to be just as valid as the fundamentalist stuff that is prevalent on this forum!

Me thinks that Tangnefedd rather enjoys her self-appointed position as the "flaming liberal" in this section of the board....the lone voice of reason to the obviously deluded "fundies". Some folks thrive on opposition.

Come on, admit it....this is a "kink" thing, isn't it? ;) :P :D


Kidding!

[SUNSTONE]

What gave it away? Was it t he mischievous icon by her name?

[HistoryMaker]

Just a thought... I am only a child myself and call it immaturity or disobedience or what you will, but I remember a time when I hated everything my parents forced me to do, simply because I wanted to resist their authority. I was forced to go to Church from birth and really hated having to get up early on Sunday - as a young child I got very little from the service. It was only when I became old enough for my parents to stop deciding for me that I should go to Church that I actually chose to become a Christian and started to believe. I don't think it is possible to force belief onto people - if that happens, in my experience, there is hostility or little chance for real belief.

[Lisa0315]

Just a thought... I am only a child myself and call it immaturity or disobedience or what you will, but I remember a time when I hated everything my parents forced me to do, simply because I wanted to resist their authority. I was forced to go to Church from birth and really hated having to get up early on Sunday - as a young child I got very little from the service. It was only when I became old enough for my parents to stop deciding for me that I should go to Church that I actually chose to become a Christian and started to believe. I don't think it is possible to force belief onto people - if that happens, in my experience, there is hostility or little chance for real belief.

But it was not because your parents forced you that you were disobedient. You (and all of us) are disobedient because it is our sin nature to be so. Not "forcing" children to go to church is giving in to their sin nature to disobey parents and God.

I have seen two kinds of Christians in my life: 1) Those who get saved after a life full of sin, and 2) Those who have been raised up in church since birth, accepted Christ, and have never known any other life.

I have seen passionate Christians arise out of both groups. However, it seems that those who have been raised in church and do not depart from it are more blessed in life as they do not have far-reaching sin (forgiven, but still affecting their lives) to deal with.

I believe in giving children a firm foundation in all aspects of life. My biggest regret is NOT having raised my children in church. If I had it to do all over again, I would have taken them as babies all the way to adulthood.

[SUNSTONE]

But it was not because your parents forced you that you were disobedient. You (and all of us) are disobedient because it is our sin nature to be so. Not "forcing" children to go to church is giving in to their sin nature to disobey parents and God.

I have seen two kinds of Christians in my life: 1) Those who get saved after a life full of sin, and 2) Those who have been raised up in church since birth, accepted Christ, and have never known any other life.

I have seen passionate Christians arise out of both groups. However, it seems that those who have been raised in church and do not depart from it are more blessed in life as they do not have far-reaching sin (forgiven, but still affecting their lives) to deal with.

I believe in giving children a firm foundation in all aspects of life. My biggest regret is NOT having raised my children in church. If I had it to do all over again, I would have taken them as babies all the way to adulthood.

Amen on that! :thumbsup:

[heron]

"It was not because your parents forced you that you were disobedient."

You don't think that's a possibility?

[jasperbound]

Not according to the title of the thread ... it is about forcing people to attend .

Not just people. Children. Now, perhaps you are one of those people who believe children should be treated like adults, but I personally believe that it's only reasonable to treat them like children who need discipline and authority.

Saying that is saying to teach the children to havd no respect for people by giving *them* no respect . It is teaching them that one can buy righteousness from the Lord and that "going to church" is an actual command of the law ( which it isn't ) and that the law obtains salvation .

So, forcing a child to do something they do not want to do is showing them no respect. I hope you and those who agree with you are consistent in that view and do not ever demand one's children do anything, whether it's go to sleep, come home at an appropriate time, go to school, etc.

I doubt that . But , I do think that a lot of people who are always yelling about "free will" and that the Lord doesn't want "robots" are saying the opposite to their children . What hypocracy . Not that you would do so but I know many that do . This isn't about teaching a child to look both ways before crossing the street . This is about a relationship with the Lord . Attending meetings is not about that but usually about sitting , standing , kneeling , and singing when someone tells them to - about looking at the bak of someone's head and listening to someone else - *that* is being a robot - no relational aspect in all of that .

Now, can you honestly tell me that if you have children, you do not in any way use parental authority to make them do something they do not want to do? Now to go "It's wrong to force a child to go somewhere they don't want to go!" and then force them to go to school, the dentist, etc. is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Why become a liar simply to make a personal attack ?

Perhaps I was being presumptuous. If I'm wrong, and your view of churches was in no way influenced by your own experience in churches, then I retract that statement. That said, take that plank out of your eye. Unless you can say that you've been to every church (in this case, the ones that take place in buildings) in the world, you have no right to act as if you know how they all are, and are lying when you say they are all a certain way.

If people don't treat children as people , they will teach them that the Lord deisres only actions and routine from them - just as the superstitious religions in ancient times . That is a huge reason why unbelievers look at christianity *as* superstitious . By forcing children to go to meetings , they are only passing along their religiousness which does the children no good whatsoever .

And these people are hypocrites, as they usually force their children to do things they don't want to do. I'm seriously tired of such hypocrisy. It's disgusting. Either they should admit it's all right that children do need to do some things they do not like for their own good or they shouldn't force them to do anything at all.

[knownbeforetime]

A note about Joshua:

The people God told him to kill weren't necessarily human. They were giants, half-human/half-fallen angel.

[JVD]

There is no getting around the fact that in the OT God ordered people killed enmasse. At the very least, there is the flood which God personally engineered and killed everyone but 8.

While someone may try to explain away the slaughter by the Israelites of the Canaanites by saying they were not necessarily human, (and I am not arguing against that), there are plenty of other instances in the OT where God personally killed large numbers of people. Sodom and Gomorrah for instance.

I personally believe these were historical events that I cannot completely explain to my human satisfaction, but I accept. God sees the big picture, I don't. It does cause me to wonder what became of these people that were killed. It makes me wonder if there really is a literal hell to which all the people killed in the flood were sent. The bible is really not all that clear on that issue.

[Shannonkish]

I wasn't forced to go to church, ever. I did so of my own volition. I do not think that the "As for me and my house... " says anything about forcing church upon anyone.

When I have kids, I will not force them to go to church. You can raise your kids in the Lord without forcing them to go to church.

[Kelly]

Well, since my kids are 6 and 1 y.o., and we can't go without them, yes, I force them to go. They both like it, btw. When they are teens? I don't know if I'll force them to go, I'd like for them to go to a church, even if it's not mine, so long as it's Christian.

[Shannonkish]

Well, since my kids are 6 and 1 y.o., and we can't go without them, yes, I force them to go. They both like it, btw. When they are teens? I don't know if I'll force them to go, I'd like for them to go to a church, even if it's not mine, so long as it's Christian.

I definitely think it is understandable to be "forced" to go to church when you are that young.. but when you are old enough to make your own decisions--- I think then is when the "forcing" should cease.

[Kelly]

Parents set rules for living under their roof. No boyfriend/girlfriend overnight, no cursing, etc. Many rules like these are acceptable. A rule of going to church seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially with all the teen church services, groups etc that most churches have now.

[Shannonkish]

A rule of going to church seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially with all the teen church services, groups etc that most churches have now.

But if the child doesn't want to go to church?

I was not forced to be a Christian, not by my parents, nor by anyone else. It was a choice that I made myself. Forcing a child to go to church does not automatically mean that they will become Christians.

I can give you plenty of examples of kids that I know who were forced to go to church, and because of this, once they went to college, they turned their backs on everything they were taught because they were no longer forced to go to church...

[heron]

Ditto. The term "force" is a little scary. Many of us are fortunate that our kids don't mind. But as in the OP, there are plenty of instances of spiritual abuse out there.

[Kelly]

I guess we need to know the greater chance of backsliding - Kids who were never required to attend church of some kind vs. those who were required to.

[Kelly]

Also, forcing them to go to a particular church as opposed to a different one. My form of worship might not be the same that my child wants to express as they mature. They may have more friends that go to a different church. I have no problem with that.

[Shannonkish]

I guess we need to know the greater chance of backsliding - Kids who were never required to attend church of some kind vs. those who were required to.

I would suspect that it would be those that are required/forced to attend church.

[Kelly]

I disagree but we're both talking out of opinion :)

[discernomatic]

I didn't like to go to church when I was a kid because I had to wear a dress and stockings that usually itched. I felt more comfortable in pants but they were out of the question when going to church. My mom took me to the Catholic church, our priest was old, and his sermons boring to me. I enjoyed it more later when I was older and could sing in the youth choir on Saturday evenings with the accompaniment of a guitar rather than an organ.

The best thing was that I was allowed to go to a friend's Baptist church sometimes, they had Sunday school during at least part of the sermon, so you didn't have to hear it all. The youth of the church helped with the children, putting together skits and puppet shows. That church was where I was born again. Not because of the Sunday school, though. I just still have fond memories of that time.

If my mother had not "forced" me to go to the Catholic church, perhaps I would not have had the willingness to believe in Jesus Christ as the gospel was presented to me in my friend's church. The background knowledge was useful both then and now.

[Mashavu]

While someone may try to explain away the slaughter by the Israelites of the Canaanites by saying they were not necessarily human, (and I am not arguing against that),...

Okay, this is a new one on me. Can someone tell me what made the Canaanites "not necessarily human"????? :scratch:

[Lisa0315]

There is no getting around the fact that in the OT God ordered people killed enmasse. At the very least, there is the flood which God personally engineered and killed everyone but 8.

While someone may try to explain away the slaughter by the Israelites of the Canaanites by saying they were not necessarily human, (and I am not arguing against that), there are plenty of other instances in the OT where God personally killed large numbers of people. Sodom and Gomorrah for instance.

I personally believe these were historical events that I cannot completely explain to my human satisfaction, but I accept. God sees the big picture, I don't. It does cause me to wonder what became of these people that were killed. It makes me wonder if there really is a literal hell to which all the people killed in the flood were sent. The bible is really not all that clear on that issue.

You are looking at this from a human point of view. God's judgement on all of mankind (for sin) was death. Read Genesis. It is only His mercy that permits us to continue in sin IN HOPES that we will turn to Him and accept His pardon through Christ Jesus. There will come a day when God will judge the world, and you may call Him a mass murderer for that as well, if you like, but we are in fact, already dead, until we are reborn in Christ.

Quite simply put...Joshua was used as an instrument of God's judgement. Whether He judges now or later is His perogative. The examples of these judgements in the Bible are a WARNING to future generations, again displaying the mercy of God.

[4ujesus]

As a former Youth Pastor (now a Senior Pastor), I used to get this question from parents alot.

A couple of quick thoughts.

God has given us as parents to our Children. To guide them as well and to serve as their Spiritual leaders. Our Children need our Love, guidance and discipline.
Without parents our children would continually make horrible if not dangerous decisions. We are to be an example to them as we raise them.

One example we are to set for them is that the Word of God is the authority in our Lives.

God's Word says to "forsake not the gathering of yourselves together"
So we should make going to Church a regular part of our everyday lives and our Children should be included in it.

But what if they Don' want to go?

Well what if they didn' want to go to math class would you make them go?
ofcourse you would! and their spiritual walk is far more important then their understanding of math.

I also diasagree with the fact that "forcing" your kids to go to church will lead to rebellion, so you should let them stay home.
If they are not taught the truth of God's Word, even if they don't want to be there, they won't have the foundation of scripture to fall back on.

I can't tell you the number of kids in 15 years of youth ministry, who I thought hadn't heard a single word that was taught. Only to years later to hear from them in times of great difficulty, reminding me of a message they had heard years earlier. Wanting to get right with God.

God's Word does not return void.

It's time for us to be the Parents, and lead our families by taking them to Church, whether they feel like it that day or not.

Joshua 24:15 "..but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord"

On a seperate issue, my 4 kids all love sports and participate in many. And while I am very supportive and attend every game, we draw the line when it comes to having to choose between church and sports. Games or practice never come before church.

Not out of some type of legalistic obligation, but out of love for the Lord and a desire to establish the right priorities in my children's lives.

God Comes First!

May we raise our(his) children with this in mind and we will never regret it.

[Lisa0315]

[QUOTE]I wasn't forced to go to church, ever. I did so of my own volition. I do not think that the "As for me and my house... " says anything about forcing church upon anyone.

Just like anything else, we set examples for our children. We do not permit them to do things that will be harmful to them. If we have to physically restrain them to keep them safe, we do it. If we have to force them to attend school, we do it. Why would they get a "choice" about the most important thing in their lives?

When I have kids, I will not force them to go to church. You can raise your kids in the Lord without forcing them to go to church.

Aha! Now I see. When you have kids, you are going to feel differently about a great many things. Believe it or not, parents do the best that they can, good, bad, or ugly, and even the mistakes are made out of love. I tell my kids that if they do not like my decisions, then, they should get a really good education so they can get a really good job, so they can afford a really good therapist!

I forced my kids, and believe me my then, 16 year old daughter did not want to go. She would sit in church sullen and angry the whole time. I made her sit up, listen, and be respectful. Now, she stands up in church to give testimony and says that she is thankful that Mom "made" her go to church. I have many regrets, but forcing my kids to go to church is not one of them.

[Lisa0315]

Okay, this is a new one on me. Can someone tell me what made the Canaanites "not necessarily human"????? :scratch:


It is speculated that the Canaanites were the descendents of the fallen angels who had children with human women. It's all in Genesis. Goliath was also one of these descendents. The two angels who are bound are likely those who participated in this activity.

Sorry, I am not giving you Bibical references here, but I have alot of posts to reply back to. I am sure the person who originally stated the non-human post can support what he said. I just wanted to give you a quick reply.

Don't get hung up on these references. It is important to know about as it may explain the judgement of God on these people, but not all scholars agree that the fallen angel/human thing actually happened especially since angels are not supposed to be gendered. :scratch:

[4ujesus]

[QUOTE=Shannonkish]

Just like anything else, we set examples for our children. We do not permit them to do things that will be harmful to them. If we have to physically restrain them to keep them safe, we do it. If we have to force them to attend school, we do it. Why would they get a "choice" about the most important thing in their lives?


Aha! Now I see. When you have kids, you are going to feel differently about a great many things. Believe it or not, parents do the best that they can, good, bad, or ugly, and even the mistakes are made out of love. I tell my kids that if they do not like my decisions, then, they should get a really good education so they can get a really good job, so they can afford a really good therapist!

I forced my kids, and believe me my then, 16 year old daughter did not want to go. She would sit in church sullen and angry the whole time. I made her sit up, listen, and be respectful. Now, she stands up in church to give testimony and says that she is thankful that Mom "made" her go to church. I have many regrets, but forcing my kids to go to church is not one of them.
Amen Lisa,

What a blessing to hear about your daughter.

"raise up a child in the way that he must go, and when he is old he will not depart from it."

May other parents learn from your example.

4ujesus

[moonkissedtiger]

When I have kids, I'll take them for as long as they want to go and when they have a problem with them....

I'm gonna straight up ask them why. I want to know the reason why they don't want to go anymore, I want to know if it is because they don't feel comfortable, if it's the church and the teaching, if they don't like Christianity.

I want to know so I know what to do. I think it also depends on your child. Some kids don't like being forced, they want to make a choice of their own. Others don't mind at all. Children have their own temperments, feelings, thoughts, and actions. None are alike. What works for one won't work for another.

But it's the same with school. If one day my child wakes up and says, " I don't want to go to school." I want to know WHY they don't. Yea, in the end they'll have to go but I want to know if there is a problem with the school, with them... ya know?

Just my opinion of course. :)

[jasperbound]

But if the child doesn't want to go to church?

I was not forced to be a Christian, not by my parents, nor by anyone else. It was a choice that I made myself. Forcing a child to go to church does not automatically mean that they will become Christians.

I can give you plenty of examples of kids that I know who were forced to go to church, and because of this, once they went to college, they turned their backs on everything they were taught because they were no longer forced to go to church...
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And I'm sure one can mention plenty of examples of the complete opposite.

That said, if parents are going to force their children to do anything at all, as I'm sure you will do even if it isn't forcing them to go to church, then I don't see why forcing them to go to church is that bad. I know of no parent who lets his child do anything he wants to do, unless the parent's terribly neglectful.

[jasperbound]

Parents set rules for living under their roof. No boyfriend/girlfriend overnight, no cursing, etc. Many rules like these are acceptable. A rule of going to church seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially with all the teen church services, groups etc that most churches have now.

Indeed! In fact, as I keep mentioning in this topic, forcing them to go to church isn't any more "wrong" than forcing a child to do anything else he does not want to do. To claim that it's wrong to force a child to go to church, and then force on them school, a curfew, limits, etc. is hypocrisy and shows that one's priorities are not straight.

[jasperbound]

There is no getting around the fact that in the OT God ordered people killed enmasse. At the very least, there is the flood which God personally engineered and killed everyone but 8.

While someone may try to explain away the slaughter by the Israelites of the Canaanites by saying they were not necessarily human, (and I am not arguing against that), there are plenty of other instances in the OT where God personally killed large numbers of people. Sodom and Gomorrah for instance.

I personally believe these were historical events that I cannot completely explain to my human satisfaction, but I accept. God sees the big picture, I don't. It does cause me to wonder what became of these people that were killed. It makes me wonder if there really is a literal hell to which all the people killed in the flood were sent. The bible is really not all that clear on that issue.

It's great when people try to understand that there might have been a reason to questionable things in the Bible rather than claim omniscience and refuse to understand why certain things were necessary!

Here's a link that might help explain it: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html

I would say that these people needed to die because to let them continue their wicked ways would be to jeopardize our salvation, and although some people do prefer political correctness to salvation, their opinions don't matter to me.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I agree with the posters who ask the questions:

Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to attend school?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to go to the dentist?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to go to the doctors?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to get up in the morning when they'd rather sleep?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to eat vegetables.
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to visit a relative when they just did not want to see them or had something better to do?

At some point we need to be parents. We need to nurture our children. We need to guide our children. We need to love our children. For us, church is a large part of nurturing, guiding and loving our children. As a result, we've never had to 'force' them to attend but, yes, we have forced them on those other issues and I believe we are better parents for it.

God bless :)

[Kelly]

Ironically enough, in my men's group this morning we were on the topic of raising your kids up to have a relationship with the Lord. A poll revealed that 88% of church going children drop church by their senior year in high school.

Another poll of young adults who had left the church asked what were the reasons and the top reasons were: Hypocracy, judgementalism and parents who were indifferent to attending church except for holidays.

It is our duty as parents to keep our kids in church, and if the youth ministry of our church isn't cutting it, find a different one or be an instrument for change within our churches.

Deuteronomy 11:18-20
18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 19 Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 20 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates,

[Gentle]

Never, no

Daughter is an atheist and her mother Buddhist

peace
Andrew

[heron]

Let's change the word "force" to "expect" --I don't think anyone here means drag them by the hair, lock them in chains. We don't do this over spinach or the dentist. We let them know what's expected. We can even calmly stand our ground.

When teens and YAs look back on their childhood, they evaluate themselves in terms of their past and surroundings. They own what they knew. If they remember themselves as belonging to a church, it's easier for them to feel accepted there (and in God's eyes) as an adult.

I do think that moonkissedtiger's words were important. Our relationship with our kids should reflect our relationship with God. God is attentive to us, listens to our whinings, and even makes adjustments for us when we ask. He communicates back and forth, and cares about our petty worries.

My daughter had a problem with church when she was young, and I found it was because one boy was following her everywhere she went. I know teens now who would enjoy church if their parents let them attend ones where they could dress more like they dress for school. Sometimes the obstacles are simple....we don't need to blow them up into a battle.


Adding a little to the God wrath sideline-- natural events can be predicted, and God knows the rumblings below the earth, the winds heading toward us, the enemies crouching in the foxholes. He happens to know a little before we do.

For example, the parting of the Red Sea could have occurred slightly after a seismic event on the other side of the Mediterranean. That doesn't mean it's not a miracle, or that God didn't lead them to the right place at the right time.

[New_Wineskin]

The same principal applies to the spiritual upbringing of children. My husband and I are responsible for my children's spiritual education.

There is no "same" principle here . The state does not force someone to force their children to "go to church" . And , if you and your spouse *are* responsible for your children's education ( as you say ) , then what does going to a club have to do with it ? Why arent you doing your job ? Why take them somewhere else ? All you are doing is telling them that the Lord wants robots and that "church" is a requirement for salvation .

[New_Wineskin]

Perhaps I was being presumptuous. If I'm wrong, and your view of churches was in no way influenced by your own experience in churches, then I retract that statement.

No , you were not being presumptuous - you were being a liar . You deliberately wrote something as fact knowing that you didn't know it was a fact . If you would only retract it , you show that you have no desire to repent of being a liar . Retraction is repenting .

[Lisa0315]

There is no "same" principle here . The state does not force someone to force their children to "go to church" . And , if you and your spouse *are* responsible for your children's education ( as you say ) , then what does going to a club have to do with it ? Why arent you doing your job ? Why take them somewhere else ? All you are doing is telling them that the Lord wants robots and that "church" is a requirement for salvation .

hmm...This is actually a bit insulting. Was that your intention? I hope not. Tones are really hard to "hear".

Regardless, there are many things that I make my children do that the state does not have anything to do with or even know about.

First, my church is not a club. It is a place to go so that we can worship God. It is a place in which we can learn about God. It is a holy place where the presence of God can be felt in a real way.

Second, attending church does not make me or my family robots.

Church is not a requirement for salvation. Of the 4 of us, only one was saved in church.

We have only been in church for 18 months, but despite my failure there, I raised my kids with the same principles that I had been raised with. Meaning, I made my kids do the right thing no matter how hard or how unpopular it might make them. This builds character, something sorely missing in today's youth. In addition, I also controlled every move that my children made. Yep, that's what I said. I CONTROLLED everything they did. You better believe it! I knew where they were, who they were with, what they were doing. They didn't spend the night anywhere unless I talked to the parents and gauged the values of those parents first. My children sometimes lost "friends" because of my strict control on who, what, where, and when they did anything. So what!

I made my daughter take ROTC in 9th grade. She needed self-discipline badly. I have made both of my kids write letters of apology to their teachers if they got a bad note home from school. I gave my kids very few choices, and when they got a choice, it was because they earned it. I cooked one meal, and you either ate it or you didn't, but you did not come back later and fix something else that you liked better. I made my kids become friends with the unpopular kids that were picked on. I once threatened my daughter with coming to school and holding her hand all day in middle school when she began getting in trouble with the "cool" kids. My kids heard "no" more often than they heard "yes", and when they did hear "yes", they were truly thankful. They understood the principle of privilege balanced with responsibility. You cannot have one without the other. Today, my children are opinionated, self-confident, tough as nails, ready to take on life, disciplined, never experiemented with anything, know the value of a day's work, and and independent as they come. I am very proud of both of them.

So, you have at least one example of children who were forced and controlled and turned out very well.

[jasperbound]

No , you were not being presumptuous - you were being a liar . You deliberately wrote something as fact knowing that you didn't know it was a fact . If you would only retract it , you show that you have no desire to repent of being a liar . Retraction is repenting .

Considering all your stupid generalizing of these "clubs," I really do doubt that my presumption was incorrect. Seriously, this is a case of me think thou doth protesteth tooeth mucheth.
What's funny though is how when I state things as fact without knowing them to be fact, it's a lie and a sin, but when you do it (as if you know how every single church is or even most of them), it's all right. Self-righteous hypocrisy is a disgusting thing.

[jasperbound]

There is no "same" principle here . The state does not force someone to force their children to "go to church" . And , if you and your spouse *are* responsible for your children's education ( as you say ) , then what does going to a club have to do with it ? Why arent you doing your job ? Why take them somewhere else ? All you are doing is telling them that the Lord wants robots and that "church" is a requirement for salvation .

There is a same principle, if not with school, then with other areas of a child's life. I am positive, if you are a parent, that you force your child to do some things that are not required by the government. I am positive, if you are a parent, that you even discipline your children, even though discipline is forcing something upon a child, and there's no government law that states that one must discipline his child. Of course, perhaps you only force your child to go to school and do other things that keep you out of jail. If so, then I guess you are the greatest parent in the world! I would never give a child that much freedom until he was an adult.

And nobody here is saying that going to a building is a requirement for salvation, and you know it, but if somebody is, then quote whoever said it here or shut up about it. And, in case you'll find somebody who'll say that going to a building is necessary for salvation, I'll point out that not all, or even most, churches believe so, so to suggest that they do would be as stupid as it would be for me to suggest that all home church Christians are lazy and have a vendetta against church organizations. Are you humble enough to admit that maybe your bias against churches is causing you to form these strawmen? Pride is a sin too, you know.

[heron]

Wow! What's going on here?

This would be a time I would sit one child on the couch and talk to them, then another child in another room and talk to them, and find out why rage has worked into their otherwise beneficial relationships.

Does anyone feel they are accomplishing anything with these insults?

[GodsJewel]

I don't have children but when I was a child I began to lose interest in church when I was in the fifth grade due to getting teased and felt out of place. My grandmother made me go against my will and I didn't even live with her. She left me alone once I started going to church with a friend during the beginning of middle school. Which didn't last long. The pastor was very controlling and wouldn't let anyone go to the restroom during service. If he saw somebody walk towards the back of the church he would tell the ushers to stop them. He said it was the devil that made people want to go to the restroom during church service. It was other things he did that I didn't agree with either.

[moonkissedtiger]

The pastor was very controlling and wouldn't let anyone go to the restroom during service. If he saw somebody walk towards the back of the church he would tell the ushers to stop them. He said it was the devil that made people want to go to the restroom during church service.

Wow, that's a bit scary sounding.

If I gotta pee, I gotta pee. Don't matter where I am at. The urge comes. I can only hold it in for so long, ya know?

[Llauralin]

I don't have children but when I was a child I began to lose interest in church when I was in the fifth grade due to getting teased and felt out of place. My grandmother made me go against my will and I didn't even live with her. She left me alone once I started going to church with a friend during the beginning of middle school. Which didn't last long. The pastor was very controlling and wouldn't let anyone go to the restroom during service. If he saw somebody walk towards the back of the church he would tell the ushers to stop them. He said it was the devil that made people want to go to the restroom during church service. It was other things he did that I didn't agree with either.
That's pretty weird...

Did you ever start attending church regularly after that? (At another church of course!)

I'm not sure about *force*, but I would definatly expect my children (supposing I had some) to go to church pretty regularly, both for all the benifits to their understanding of God, and so that I wouldn't have to get someone to watch them. I always went to church with my parents, and since there was a Sunday schooland friends there, generally liked it.

[Eazy E]

When one thinks about it, killing Nazis was mass murder in World War II.



:thumbsup: Here, Here! Actually, it should have been a genocide, but hey, you have to show some restraint. :thumbsup:

[possum2005]

:amen: I thank God that my children attend church on their own accord and want to go. They have a choice because their father does not attend but they are there for every service that they are able to attend:clap:

[daverain]

There is scriptural reference to "forcing" children. Remember, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!"

I don't feel it's possible to 'force' someone to serve the Lord. I feel it's possible to identify if they do, and then proclaim it (like in the above quote)

[Tangnefedd]

I rarely attend church now, the whole experience put me off for life. Our eldest daughter is an Anglican Priest of the Church of England so naturally we, even my atheist husband, sometimes attends her church when we visit, in order to support our girl. Our daughter is on the evangelical wing of the church, and respects our wishes not to push her brand of faith down our throats, we never discuss the matter with her.

[heron]

Whether a person goes through the motions of a denomination or not, God sees their heart.

For the Lord searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you. I Chronicles 28:9

1 Chronicles 29:17 (http://www.biblegateway.org/passage/?book_id=13&chapter=29&verse=17&version=31&context=verse)
I know, my God, that you test the heart and are pleased with integrity. All these things have I given willingly and with honest intent. And now I have seen with joy how willingly your people who are here have given to you.

[mysparrow]

my children went to church with me , they never assumed otherwise , because they knew i felt strongly about giving them the basis for making a decision for Christ when they were ready , if they chose to . They were shown the love of Christ at home , and support . But i felt then, as i do now , that it is more at stake than making them upset over thinking im forcing them, we wont let our children play with a dangerous snake , just because they may want to , because we hold their life precious to us ; how much more precious is their spiritual life , and the chance that they wont accept the free gift of salvation ? If they are surrounded with Godly principles at home , and shown the love of Jesus , and brought up worshipping , then they have seen that side of it , and if they choose to not accept then , then its not held to the parents . It is our responsibility , God entrusted them to us. My oldest daughter has 6 of her own and is a wonderful mother, compassionate , and loving , and they attend with her , they dont assume anything else , thats a part of life , in turn she makes sure that they do not endure "abuse" at chutch , or anywhere . My middle daughter is still struggling to decide for or against , but is glad i took her . My youngest daughter is not attending right now but is looking for a home church to worship. My son passed away , but was confident in his standing with Christ . I wouldnt do anything different , with the exception of accepting Christ earlier than i did , because they were already over 5 when i accepted Christ myself .

[If Not For Grace]

(OP) Yes, or better say I insisted, just like I insisted they get good grades, have manners etc. EXPOSURE was what they needed. It was one of those my house, my rules, determines what you get in privilidges. It did not hurt em one bit.

[Tangnefedd]

Well we must agree to differ. Forcing me to go to church hurt me a lot! I still feel angry to this day and I am 55!

[Entertaining_Angels]

Well we must agree to differ. Forcing me to go to church hurt me a lot! I still feel angry to this day and I am 55!

I still have the emotional scars and bruises from catholic school. And, yes, there were many times I felt forced to attend that school. Doesn't mean I avoid school or have my children avoid school. I certainty don't decry all schools as evil or worthless. I just won't have my children attend catholic school. My son has attended a very wonderful, private school and while we are homeschooling for the second grade, he'll be back there next year.

I really don't think it is church that is your problem. I think it was the brand of 'christianity' shoved down your throat. Believe me, I grew up with word/faith type teachings and I can relate.

[Tangnefedd]

Giving children the choice whether to attend church or not, when they are old enough to decide for themselves is the answer imo. or they might very well reject it entirely

[Entertaining_Angels]

to me that would be like giving them the right to give up school. I place church a bit above school. I guess I am just blessed that I have children who love church and look forward to going. Then again, I am not raising them in the types of churches I grew up attending and that makes a HUGE difference. I suppose if my children really hated church that much I'd have to look at a couple things. Does it have something to do with the way I am raising my children? Does it have something to do with the church? Those are two questions any parent should examine if they have children who hate church. Sometimes it may be the church but I think in many cases, the answer why children hate church has more to do with the parents themselves.

[Tangnefedd]

Children have to go to school so they can be educated. They need education so they can decide for themselves about religion.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Children have to go to school so they can be educated. They need education so they can decide for themselves about religion.

And how much education does one need to decide 'about religion'?

[Tangnefedd]

Plenty, imo, otherwise we end up believing the most amazing and silliest of things. People need education to work out if something in the Bible is remotely credible, like the creation story or Noah's flood for instance!

[Entertaining_Angels]

Plenty, imo, otherwise we end up believing the most amazing and silliest of things. People need education to work out if something in the Bible is remotely credible, like the creation story or Noah's flood for instance!

Interesting theory. I have a graduate degree in the sciences and have found people all over the educational spectrum who agree with me about the infallibility of the Bible. I also know people all over the educational spectrum who disagree with me.

Based on what I've read on this thread I am more inclined to believe parentage plays a greater role.

[Tangnefedd]

Well my parents input didn't convince me of the rightness of the fundamentalist position.

I have to admit that I find it extremely hard to believe that any educated person can believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I can only think that they have any ability to suspend logic when it comes to that collection of writings.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Well my parents input didn't convince me of the rightness of the fundamentalist position.

I have to admit that I find it extremely hard to believe that any educated person can believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I can only think that they have any ability to suspend logic when it comes to that collection of writings.

Seems to me, much of what you believe about God has much to do with your parents. Of course, my opinion is based only on the small glimpse you have allowed us into your life. I don't know you at all so that is just my impression.

God bless.

[Tangnefedd]

I am 55, so obviously I cannot blame my parents for what I believe now.

The fundamentalist position has not changed since I was a child, it is re-enforced by what I read on message boards both here and in the UK. I find myself at odds with most of their perceptions of God and I cannot ever see myself coming around to their way of thinking.

[New_Wineskin]

Well my parents input didn't convince me of the rightness of the fundamentalist position.

I have to admit that I find it extremely hard to believe that any educated person can believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I can only think that they have any ability to suspend logic when it comes to that collection of writings.

Many fundies have a few self-contradictory doctrines . And , most won't give up their doctrines no matter how unimportant a particular doctrine is and how much evidence can be given to contradict that doctrine .

[New_Wineskin]

I am 55, so obviously I cannot blame my parents for what I believe now.

The fundamentalist position has not changed since I was a child, it is re-enforced by what I read on message boards both here and in the UK. I find myself at odds with most of their perceptions of God and I cannot ever see myself coming around to their way of thinking.

LOL!! It would be nice if the stance changed a little here or there . But , the idea of "fundamentals" would mean that one is changing an essential concept . That is a bit tricky - especially with people who are stuborn to begin with . :)

[heron]

We are all coming from totally different experiences of what church is.

I know adults who still have scars from knuckle whacks and kneeling on rice in Catholic school. Their parents never knew what went on. I've also seen churches where the adults are in their own little wonder world and the children are stifled, demeaned and neglected. This is certainly not normal, but there are pockets of it everywhere. The opposite can also happen--all the energies poured into children's programs, while the adults are drained.

It's a simple issue for some, because they are fortunate to have positive, nurturing experiences at church. How it was meant to be.

About logic, that's something that Christians spend a lifetime exploring. Science is a fluid field, just as our faith is. We are always learning.

This summer I read some of Enoch's writings...some believe this believer to have lived between 3000 and 4000 BC. He wrote about solar systems, magnetic fields, stars as suns (not dots), the clockwork of the planets' rotation and revolution.

Christopher "earth is round" Columbus 1451-1506
Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

Knowledge comes with time and flexibility...revelation just hits.

[Renuka]

Well I have daughters aged 12 & 6. :wave:
I really don't force them.... they go cos they love sunday school and get to meet their friends.... :amen:
well at this age we don't really give them the option.... :D
I have never come across a time when they said they didn't want to go.
If it does happen I will look at why they don't want to go and then decide
well I hope I won't have to make that choice. ;)

[Luvmy5grls]

My parents didn't have to force me to go to church. I enjoyed it. I went on some Sundays and most every Wednesday night youth group for quite a few years and really enjoyed my time.

My parents weren't real consistant however, in church attendance. They were for a couple of years but that eventually waned. As a result I did end up falling away from the Lord for quite awhile and about 4 years ago recommitted my life to Jesus. So for quite awhile we didn't attend church at all.

Four years ago my husband was saved and I recommitted my life to Jesus. We now attend church regularly.

Personally I do intend to make sure my children attend church regularly as well as Wednesday night Youth Group. It was when my parents stopped going consistantly and didn't make me go that I fell away from the Lord and made some poor decisions that caused a lot of sorrow for myself and my children now.

My goal isn't to "force" my children but to make sure it is enjoyable to them so that they *want* to go. So far they really enjoy it. We made a change of churches a few years back because the first church we began to attend was extremely long and boring to the children. They didn't connect with the other kids of the church and dreaded going to Wednesday night functions. Since we changed to our current church (which is actually where the first church we attended branched off from) our children began to enjoy going and look forward to it. Basically because their school mates and some of their teachers and coaches attend this church..........but of course it also feels like home to my husband and I. It was totally a God thing.

Personally I believe that if I keep lifting my children up in prayer and raise them in the ways of the Lord He will continue to shine brightly in their lives and they will make the decision for themselves to stay connected to other believers.:thumbsup:

Blessings,

[Tangnefedd]

I am happy that my children have been left to make their own decisions about faith matters. Our eldest is an Anglican priest, the middle one attends church sometimes. Our youngest daughter doesn't as her Sundays are taken up with other things, but she isn't against it in principle. We put no pressure on them at all. My husband is a convinced atheist, but would never dream of influencing our girls to adopt his viewpoint.

[Renuka]

Well I think I spoke too early y'day...
Today my younger daughter made a lille fuss to go to church...
I said I left it to her to decide but she knew I was upset and moreover I said no TV so I suppose she had no choice left!!!
Actually I feel she is too young to take such decs.
So I did not leave her with a choice
When we were back home she said "Ma, thanks for takin me to church I really enjoyed myself"
Well I don't think she will 'not want to go to church' anymore

[heron]

Renuka, funny coincidence. We can theorize all we want, huh? I agree with you about ages--especially when leaving someone home means an adult has to stay home with them.

Something I've found with family activities--when we're scheduled to do something routinely, we just fall into it and it happens. When we start to allow choices, everyone gets whiney and slow, making random emotional decisions. I'm talking about fun things, entertainment and recreation and even extravagance. It's not fun anymore, when people have to look inward and see if they feel like doing something.

I do believe in listening to each family member, but also see the pitfalls of asking "what do you want to do?"

[rkymtnjesusfreak]

I agree with the posters who ask the questions:

Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to attend school?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to go to the dentist?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to go to the doctors?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to get up in the morning when they'd rather sleep?
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to eat vegetables.
Do you (or have you) force(d) your child to visit a relative when they just did not want to see them or had something better to do?

At some point we need to be parents. We need to nurture our children. We need to guide our children. We need to love our children. For us, church is a large part of nurturing, guiding and loving our children. As a result, we've never had to 'force' them to attend but, yes, we have forced them on those other issues and I believe we are better parents for it.

God bless :)

:thumbsup: :amen:

[Tangnefedd]

Faith is personal and we cannot, or should not, determine for our children what spiritual path they should take by forcing them to conform to our belief system.

[Luvmy5grls]

:amen: to the :amen: :D

I agree. IMO children who are guided in these matters are grateful for the guidance.

IMO parenting our children is like holding a wet bar of soap. If you hang on too loosely it will slip out of your hand and fall...if you hang on too tightly it will also slip out of your hands and fall. You have to hang onto it just right.;)

Real life example in my own family. My sister pretty much allowed her children to make all their own decisions. They are now having difficulty as young adults handling the real world where yes you have choices but the consequences of those choices can be pretty steep.

As for my brother, he is extremely controlling and strict with his children. They are already revolting and they are experiencing some serious troubles with their youngest daughters.

Allow my girls to make decisions on their own with my guidance. So far it's working pretty well. My children are not perfect but they are centered and well balanced...so far.

Blessings,

[Tangnefedd]

Obviously children need guidance, and it is fine to tell kids what your faith means to you as long as they are under no pressure to go along with it too unless they wish to.

[Quantos]

And we just ignore Proverbs Chapter 22 right ?

[Entertaining_Angels]

Fortunately my children are going to be raised knowing there is only one way to the Father. I could take a more relativist approach, but I prefer knowing my children will be with us in Heaven...silly me, I know, but that is a important to me.

by the way, I am a former moral relativist <<twitch>>

God bless.

[Izzy23]

My parents insisted that we give God HIS day. I praise Him every day for being so good to me and blessing me with believing parents. As a result, I have come to know a great and loving Savior.

Peace
Izzy

[Luvmy5grls]

My parents insisted that we give God HIS day. I praise Him every day for being so good to me and blessing me with believing parents. As a result, I have come to know a great and loving Savior.

Peace
Izzy

This is my prayer for my children.

Honestly, I don't believe that Jesus has to be forced on our children. We as followers of Christ are the chosen...as the chosen we belong to God for eternity. He chose us before we were even born.

The older 4 girls have accepted Christ as their personal savior. Not because I forced them to but because they chose too...or I believe He chose them. One of the 4 had the experience at VBS and the other 3 came to me and asked what being saved meant and asked me to help them pray.:) My youngest is only 5 months but with sisters and parents who live for Christ she's sure to join the family of believers!;)

Blessings,

[Izzy23]

This is my prayer for my children.

Honestly, I don't believe that Jesus has to be forced on our children. We as followers of Christ are the chosen...as the chosen we belong to God for eternity. He chose us before we were even born.

The older 4 girls have accepted Christ as their personal savior. Not because I forced them to but because they chose too...or I believe He chose them. One of the 4 had the experience at VBS and the other 3 came to me and asked what being saved meant and asked me to help them pray.:) My youngest is only 5 months but with sisters and parents who live for Christ she's sure to join the family of believers!;)

Blessings,

When you really love your children you want the best for them. Nothing is better then Jesus.

The love you have for your girls is reflected in your posts. God has blessed and will bless you.

Peace
Izzy

[PegasusOnFire]

my daughter is to young yet to fight against going to church, she is 7.5 months old

[heron]

7.5 months old! Ahh--that's when they kick off their shoes every time you think you're almost out the door. (-;

[Tangnefedd]

And we just ignore Proverbs Chapter 22 right ?

Absolutely, we have no business brainwashing a child in our own belief system, they should be free as air to choose their own! If they choose to believe in ours that is fine, if not that should be fine too. After all belief is personal and as there is no proof any belief system is more valid that any other, then we should not force our point of view on anyone else!

[Kelly]

What are you talking about, Tang?!?!

Deu 4:9 Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them slip from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them.

4:10 Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children."

THE FUTURE OF THE CHURCH IS THE CHILDREN!!!!

When the Israelites in the desert were told that they would not see the promised land because of their sins, all they had left was to instruct their children, so the children could teach their children, the inheritors of the promised land.

Deu 6:7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

The church is always ONE GENERATION away from death, T.

[Tangnefedd]

Democracy is what it is all about. I can share my faith with my children, but expecting them, or worse still forcing them to accept it, as was the case when I was a child is very wrong indeed!

[Kelly]

Food for thought, though. In the States, 40% of the people didn't vote in 2004. Democracy in 'inaction'! By taking a 'democratic' stance on faith in your home, you are basically saying that it isn't important. Tell a child they can eat their vegetables "if they want to" is telling them "don't eat your vegetables". They are too young to understand their importance, simply because they don't taste as sweet as candy.

A child who doesn't go to church will probably not grow up with admonition for the Lord.

[Tangnefedd]

Faith is different to other aspects of life it is not something that you can require of a person.

I was forced to go to church and I only ended up wanting to spit in God's face because I hated him so much! My children were allowed to choose whether they wished to attend church or not. In consequence they all opted to attend, and our eldest girl in now an Anglican Priest!

[discernomatic]

Faith is different to other aspects of life it is not something that you can require of a person.

I was forced to go to church and I only ended up wanting to spit in God's face because I hated him so much! My children were allowed to choose whether they wished to attend church or not. In consequence they all opted to attend, and our eldest girl in now an Anglican Priest!
I agree with you on that, Tangnefedd. Faith cannot be forced. Either someone has it or they don't, and you cannot make anyone believe.

I think that when we tell the gospel a seed is planted. God may choose to make it grow, or may not, it all depends on Him, not us, not even the person that has heard the gospel.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I agree with you on that, Tangnefedd. Faith cannot be forced. Either someone has it or they don't, and you cannot make anyone believe.

I think that when we tell the gospel a seed is planted. God may choose to make it grow, or may not, it all depends on Him, not us, not even the person that has heard the gospel.

I agree. God knows our heart.

[Kelly]

I'm am not avocating forcing of faith, that is impossible. I'm talking about making your kids attend church (as they become teens, perhaps not even your own church), biblestudy, and of course, discussing scriptures with them yourself and how YOUR faith relates to everyday things.

Raise them up with God as part of everyday life.

[Luvmy5grls]

I'm am not avocating forcing of faith, that is impossible. I'm talking about making your kids attend church (as they become teens, perhaps not even your own church), biblestudy, and of course, discussing scriptures with them yourself and how YOUR faith relates to everyday things.

Raise them up with God as part of everyday life.

Agreed...well put.:)

[New_Wineskin]

Faith is different to other aspects of life it is not something that you can require of a person.

I was forced to go to church and I only ended up wanting to spit in God's face because I hated him so much! My children were allowed to choose whether they wished to attend church or not. In consequence they all opted to attend, and our eldest girl in now an Anglican Priest!

As long as people consider it a law to go to "church" and that righteousness is obtained through it and damnation by not doing it , they will brainwash their children to do likewise for the same reasons . They won't state it in that way , but that is why the implication works .