Smoking cigarettes

[Entertaining_Angels]

Smoking cigarettes came up on another thread and I am curious as to what other Christians think.

Is it okay for a Christian to smoke?

As for me, I'm a former two-pack-a-day smoker and smoked nearly ten years. I know I now smell a lot better and am amazed at how it feels to really breathe now. Also, that money I was tossing away on smokes is put to far better uses. But, are those really reasons for a Christian to quit? One way to look at it, a Christian who smokes has a much better shot at meeting God face to face much earlier than the rest of us. :)

Thoughts, comments, smart remarks?

[Mashavu]

I'm not so sure that it's good for ANYBODY to smoke. LOL It's an unhealthy habit that destroys the body (and it smells too). It is also EXTREMELY difficult to quit. I still crave a cigarette frequently.
Having said that, however, I think that when it comes to Christians, while it is not good to smoke, it is a secondary issue.

One of the things that so impressed me about my current church is that it was a decidedly non-traditional church. Very biblically sound, but socially non-traditional. What can you expect with two hippie-ish former potheads as pastors. LOL

Traditionalists who visit our church are often SHOCKED to their core to find that there are people outside the chuch who are smoking and even more shocked to her occasional off-colour language. Now, this is not something the church is proud of or brags about, but they feel that when it comes to our relationship with Christ there are certain priorities to be concerned with first.

They would rather have people who don't know the Lord to be able to come to church as they are and not feel judged. They would rather have them show up and smoke and even drink a beer and begin (or continue to nurture) their relationship with Christ and let Him heal their hurting hearts and change them from the inside out, than to have them be hindered by the Christian "culture" that makes them feel like they have to appear a certain way on the outside...and their hearts remain far from God.

More often than not, believers at our church find the strength to quit smoking through their relationship with God. But even if they never quit, that is an issue between them and God and in no way affects their salvation or, necessarily, even their effectivness for reaching the lost. Some of the most diligent soldiers for God that I know are smokers in our church. There are smokers in EVERY church, the difference is at our church, they don't have to hide it. It is not a "secret sin".

I'm not trying to brag on the superiority of my church (trust me, we have our own issues), I'm just trying to make a point, I guess.

I would rather someone have a relationship with Christ and smoke their entire lives than have them stay away from church (and, by extension, a relationship with Christ) because they feel they had to put on the "christian exterior" and hide.

I think that it's possible that smoking can hurt your witness for Christ but there are plenty of Christians who don't smoke who can carry that flag. It takes all kinds of people to make up the body of Christ...and they reach the people they were meant to reach. Our former (heavily pierced and tattooed) gang bangers can reach people that most of us cannot. Likewise, those who smoke can assure hesitant people that you don't have to be "all together" to have a relationship with Christ. Not smoking is not what makes you a Christian, it doesn't mean you love the Lord anymore than someone who smokes, and it doesn't have to hurt your witness...depending on those to whom you are witnessing.

Still....it's a darn smart idea to quit.

[4ujesus]

oregal,

I think when it comes to smoking, the real issue is the fact that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should be good stewards of the body(tent) he has given us to inhabit.

As a pastor, I also believe that far to many are much too legalistic about certain "behaviors", especially when it comes to either new believers, or those who are still unsaved.

Man's greatest problem is not how to overcome his "bad habits", but is his(or her) desperate need for a savior. To often we try to clean ourselves up to try to make ourselves more acceptable to God, when what we really need to do is to come to Him humbly and broken just as we are, and to allow the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out, instead of trying to clean ourselves through our own fleshly attempts at sanctification.

Too often we pray about the symptoms, (Lord help susie to quit smoking, drinking,cursing,etc.), when our prayer ought to be focused on the real problem. The issue of ones heart and right standing before God. Instead of praying for a change in behavior that still leaves someone in their sin(quit drinking, but still on their way to hell), may we intercede on behalf of their greatest need. To come into the saving knowledge of Christ. I believe then that as the Holy Spirit works in their lives, the behavior will take care of itself.( will now longer enjoy our sinful behavior but be grieved by it.)

[Mashavu]

oregal,

I think when it comes to smoking, the real issue is the fact that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should be good stewards of the body(tent) he has given us to inhabit.

As a pastor, I also believe that far to many are much too legalistic about certain "behaviors", especially when it comes to either new believers, or those who are still unsaved.

Man's greatest problem is not how to overcome his "bad habits", but is his(or her) desperate need for a savior. To often we try to clean ourselves up to try to make ourselves more acceptable to God, when what we really need to do is to come to Him humbly and broken just as we are, and to allow the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out, instead of trying to clean ourselves through our own fleshly attempts at sanctification.

Too often we pray about the symptoms, (Lord help susie to quit smoking, drinking,cursing,etc.), when our prayer ought to be focused on the real problem. The issue of ones heart and right standing before God. Instead of praying for a change in behavior that still leaves someone in their sin(quit drinking, but still on their way to hell), may we intercede on behalf of their greatest need. To come into the saving knowledge of Christ. I believe then that as the Holy Spirit works in their lives, the behavior will take care of itself.( will now longer enjoy our sinful behavior but be grieved by it.)

4ujesus,

:clap: I'm grinning ear-to-ear. I entirely agree.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Good answers and I agree. I'd agree this is definately what Paul would call a 'disputable matter' and the real issue is the matter of our heart and brokeness.

Such wonderful answers

and, our power appears to be out and staying out so I don't think my laptop will last much longer...God bless.

[LilAngelHeart]

Smoking cigarettes came up on another thread and I am curious as to what other Christians think.

Is it okay for a Christian to smoke?

As for me, I'm a former two-pack-a-day smoker and smoked nearly ten years. I know I now smell a lot better and am amazed at how it feels to really breathe now. Also, that money I was tossing away on smokes is put to far better uses. But, are those really reasons for a Christian to quit? One way to look at it, a Christian who smokes has a much better shot at meeting God face to face much earlier than the rest of us. :)

Thoughts, comments, smart remarks?


I was always taught that it's not good for Christians to smoke, but it's also not good for anyone to smoke and I would encourage people to quit or not start even if I wasn't doing it for Christian reasons. I never started smoking and don't plan to ever. I would tell anyone not to start or to stop if they can. As far as the nicotene our body is the temple of God where Jesus dwells so it's not good to have nicotene, drugs, or alchohol in the same place where Jesus dwells. :) Would anyone sit up and feel comfortable smoking in the literal physical presence of God? I wouldn't. :) Plus I think things like that is covered in the lust of the flesh scriptures. Bad habits or bad things that pleases your flesh but adds nothing to your life or spirit and does not honor or worship God in anyway. :prayer:

[LilAngelHeart]

Another way to test it is to ask yourself if you asked Jesus or God should you smoke, what would His answer be. ;) God doesn't want us to do anything to shorten our lives and make us less useful on earth as far as ministering to others and the calling God has on our lives etc. by dying too young. :angel: Also you can give it the fast test. Anything you can't give up or do without for a fast, it's like you put it before God and that's not good either, and most smokers cannot fast from cigarettes for more than a day, they can do without food first before cigarettes! :D Then you can also look at it as harming others because second hand smoke is dangerous to those around you so God would not be pleased with Christians harming others through second hand smoke. There are a lot of ways to look at it to see how God feels about it. :angel:

[LynnMcG]

I think God meets us where we are. I used to smoke and I hated it. I always felt like a hypocrit. Putting all this good stuff into my spirit man and totally wrecking my physical man. For a while, everytime I would light up I would hear the Holy Spirit nudging me. I can remember sitting on the front porch and saying outloud "I know, I know. It's stupid. But I'm not ready right now."

Finally, I accepted that nudging and asked God to remove the desire from my body. That was it. Last cigarette. I was completely delivered of smoking about 3 years ago. Never craved another cigarette since then.

But again, God met me where I was. Not everyone is ready not everyone will be willing to be delivered. But I know that with God all things are possible!

[LilAngelHeart]

I think God meets us where we are. I used to smoke and I hated it. I always felt like a hypocrit. Putting all this good stuff into my spirit man and totally wrecking my physical man. For a while, everytime I would light up I would hear the Holy Spirit nudging me. I can remember sitting on the front porch and saying outloud "I know, I know. It's stupid. But I'm not ready right now."

Finally, I accepted that nudging and asked God to remove the desire from my body. That was it. Last cigarette. I was completely delivered of smoking about 3 years ago. Never craved another cigarette since then.

But again, God met me where I was. Not everyone is ready not everyone will be willing to be delivered. But I know that with God all things are possible!

Yup, for those who are already smokers when they get saved, I think God gives them time to grow and time to give it up, but I don't think God will be pleased with someone who's been saved for like 20yrs, still smoking and not even trying to give it up. And He difinately doesn't want anyone to start who hasn't started smoking. :)

[Forest]

Paul said something like all things are lawful, but I will not be under the power of any.

Smoking is addictive.

[Svt4Him]

Smoking won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there.

[Mashavu]

Smoking won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there.

Heeee!!!!!!!!! :D

[Entertaining_Angels]

Smoking won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there.

Thanks for the laugh. I'm still laughing...

:D

[simply intolerable]

i think im the youngest smoker in this thread right here. i've been socially smoking for about a year now and still am not addicted, and honestly dont think i will. i never have the urge or desire to, and only do it on occassion with friends. i've nevershed a single single penny on a pack and i dont smell. most of you probly would think this dosnt even count but im just adding my 2 cents. i can go up to a month or with out one and then turn around then next day and have a half a pack in one day, it just vairies for me. no i dont think it's a sin, unless it's somehow interfering with your spiritual life, i see nothing wrong with it

[Artificial Intelligence]

Smoking won't send you to hell, it will just make you smell like you've been there.Hmm I don't know about that, my pipe smells pretty good ;)

[LilAngelHeart]

i think im the youngest smoker in this thread right here. i've been socially smoking for about a year now and still am not addicted, and honestly dont think i will. i never have the urge or desire to, and only do it on occassion with friends. i've nevershed a single single penny on a pack and i dont smell. most of you probly would think this dosnt even count but im just adding my 2 cents. i can go up to a month or with out one and then turn around then next day and have a half a pack in one day, it just vairies for me. no i dont think it's a sin, unless it's somehow interfering with your spiritual life, i see nothing wrong with it


Hmmm.... I've never heard of a smoker like you. :angel: Just be careful not to let an addiction creep up on you. It's bad for your health and very hard to quit. :prayer:

[Tangnefedd]

In my opinion it is daft for anyone to smoke. Smoking does not only harm the smoker it also harms folk breathing in the smoke.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Hmmm.... I've never heard of a smoker like you. :angel: Just be careful not to let an addiction creep up on you. It's bad for your health and very hard to quit. :prayer:



I have but it was usually in people who didn't like to admit weakness (and, yes, they still smelled bad, even if they could not smell it on themselves)

[MoreInSorrow]

I'm not so sure that it's good for ANYBODY to smoke. LOL It's an unhealthy habit that destroys the body (and it smells too). It is also EXTREMELY difficult to quit. I still crave a cigarette frequently.
Having said that, however, I think that when it comes to Christians, while it is not good to smoke, it is a secondary issue.

One of the things that so impressed me about my current church is that it was a decidedly non-traditional church. Very biblically sound, but socially non-traditional. What can you expect with two hippie-ish former potheads as pastors. LOL

Traditionalists who visit our church are often SHOCKED to their core to find that there are people outside the chuch who are smoking and even more shocked to her occasional off-colour language. Now, this is not something the church is proud of or brags about, but they feel that when it comes to our relationship with Christ there are certain priorities to be concerned with first.

They would rather have people who don't know the Lord to be able to come to church as they are and not feel judged. They would rather have them show up and smoke and even drink a beer and begin (or continue to nurture) their relationship with Christ and let Him heal their hurting hearts and change them from the inside out, than to have them be hindered by the Christian "culture" that makes them feel like they have to appear a certain way on the outside...and their hearts remain far from God.

More often than not, believers at our church find the strength to quit smoking through their relationship with God. But even if they never quit, that is an issue between them and God and in no way affects their salvation or, necessarily, even their effectivness for reaching the lost. Some of the most diligent soldiers for God that I know are smokers in our church. There are smokers in EVERY church, the difference is at our church, they don't have to hide it. It is not a "secret sin".

I'm not trying to brag on the superiority of my church (trust me, we have our own issues), I'm just trying to make a point, I guess.

I would rather someone have a relationship with Christ and smoke their entire lives than have them stay away from church (and, by extension, a relationship with Christ) because they feel they had to put on the "christian exterior" and hide.

I think that it's possible that smoking can hurt your witness for Christ but there are plenty of Christians who don't smoke who can carry that flag. It takes all kinds of people to make up the body of Christ...and they reach the people they were meant to reach. Our former (heavily pierced and tattooed) gang bangers can reach people that most of us cannot. Likewise, those who smoke can assure hesitant people that you don't have to be "all together" to have a relationship with Christ. Not smoking is not what makes you a Christian, it doesn't mean you love the Lord anymore than someone who smokes, and it doesn't have to hurt your witness...depending on those to whom you are witnessing.

Still....it's a darn smart idea to quit.

I completely agree with this entire post. Good to hear there are churches like yours out there.

[LilAngelHeart]

I have but it was usually in people who didn't like to admit weakness (and, yes, they still smelled bad, even if they could not smell it on themselves)

Oh okay. :) :angel:

[- DRA -]

Smoking cigarettes came up on another thread and I am curious as to what other Christians think.

Is it okay for a Christian to smoke?

As for me, I'm a former two-pack-a-day smoker and smoked nearly ten years. I know I now smell a lot better and am amazed at how it feels to really breathe now. Also, that money I was tossing away on smokes is put to far better uses. But, are those really reasons for a Christian to quit? One way to look at it, a Christian who smokes has a much better shot at meeting God face to face much earlier than the rest of us. :)

Thoughts, comments, smart remarks?

Congratulations, OreGal. :clap:

You have done what so many wish they could do -- STOP smoking. :thumbsup:

Personally, I never have smoked -- just breathed a lot of second-hand smoke ... especially those first 20 years. In the mid-80s, people finally started to become more knowledgeable about the hazards of tobacco smoke. It was a welcome relief when the workplace started restricting places where people could smoke while at work.

Nowadays, there a wealth of good information available to warn about tobacco smoke. I wish it had come along sooner. It killed both my parents. Dad died of throat cancer ... Mom of lung cancer. Dad only quit smoking after his larynx was removed. Mom quit when the cancer was diagnosed, but it was too late. She only lived a little over 5 months after finding out she had cancer. When she died, I was already familiar with the medical term pulmonary edema. It's just another way of saying you drown on your own body fluids when your lungs fill up. I can guarantee from first-hand knowledge that it is a VERY UGLY way to die.

For what's it worth, this is a study that I did a few years ago on tobacco smoke. Hopefully, someone may profit from it. Smoking is a bigger deal than most of us ever imagined.

http://www.studywell.org/pdf/TobaccoSmoke.pdf

In His service, :bow:
... Denny

[LilAngelHeart]

Wow thanks for that study Denny! :) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Entertaining_Angels]

Congratulations, OreGal. :clap:

You have done what so many wish they could do -- STOP smoking. :thumbsup:

Personally, I never have smoked -- just breathed a lot of second-hand smoke ... especially those first 20 years. In the mid-80s, people finally started to become more knowledgeable about the hazards of tobacco smoke. It was a welcome relief when the workplace started restricting places where people could smoke while at work.

Nowadays, there a wealth of good information available to warn about tobacco smoke. I wish it had come along sooner. It killed both my parents. Dad died of throat cancer ... Mom of lung cancer. Dad only quit smoking after his larynx was removed. Mom quit when the cancer was diagnosed, but it was too late. She only lived a little over 5 months after finding out she had cancer. When she died, I was already familiar with the medical term pulmonary edema. It's just another way of saying you drown on your own body fluids when your lungs fill up. I can guarantee from first-hand knowledge that it is a VERY UGLY way to die.

For what's it worth, this is a study that I did a few years ago on tobacco smoke. Hopefully, someone may profit from it. Smoking is a bigger deal than most of us ever imagined.

http://www.studywell.org/pdf/TobaccoSmoke.pdf

In His service, :bow:
... Denny

Yes, my mother smoked while pregnant with my brother and as a result his vision steadily declined until he was completely blind in one eye.

Quitting smoking was certainly not easy for me. Up until then, every attempt failed. Finally, I spent nearly a half year telling myself every time I lit up that on a specific date I was going to quit. I purposefully made the date a half year out and when I got to that date, I threw my pack away and that was that. One of the best things I ever did...

Thanks for the congrats :)

[- DRA -]

Wow thanks for that study Denny! :) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



You are most welcome.

I wrote a weekly SHE (safety, health, and environmental) memo at work for a year-and-a-half. The tobacco smoke study was originally sent out as SHE memos over a four-week period to about 300 people. Later, it was sent out to the whole plant site, including contractors. I anticipated some "ruffled feathers," but did not receive any negative feedback -- which was a pleasant surprise.

I since have made a few revisions to the study (correcting a few typos and changing the wording in a few sections). I keep paper copies available in the foyer of the church building for visitors and members. I also send the study out via e-mail for those that request it. The plant doctor reviewed and critiqued the study for me. She was concerned that it might be a bit too technical or indepth for many people. I suspect that she's right, but I wanted to make it clear to folks that the medical community understands the nicotine addiction process and extensive damage done to the body better than we might think they do. I know that I was absolutely shocked when I first found out that nicotine is a naturally occurring insecticide. Imagine being addicted to an insecticide! It's sure NOT marketed that way, is it?

[Tonks]

Interesting topic - particularly since I struggle with my own smoking. I agree with the statement, of course, that the body is indeed a temple of the Holy Spirit. That being said I'm not necessarily sure if smoking is a sin per se, rather a reflection of man's sinful nature.

Did I parse this too fine?

[Entertaining_Angels]

Interesting topic - particularly since I struggle with my own smoking. I agree with the statement, of course, that the body is indeed a temple of the Holy Spirit. That being said I'm not necessarily sure if smoking is a sin per se, rather a reflection of man's sinful nature.

Did I parse this too fine?

You could be right. I think it does become a sin though if you feel convicted to quit and do not but that can be said of anything really.

Quitting smoking is a tough one, no doubt.

[- DRA -]

Yes, my mother smoked while pregnant with my brother and as a result his vision steadily declined until he was completely blind in one eye.

Quitting smoking was certainly not easy for me. Up until then, every attempt failed. Finally, I spent nearly a half year telling myself every time I lit up that on a specific date I was going to quit. I purposefully made the date a half year out and when I got to that date, I threw my pack away and that was that. One of the best things I ever did...

Thanks for the congrats :)

Whew, I hadn't heard of something like this before. Typically, a tetratogen is something that the mother absorbs and affects the baby -- with timing being the critical factor. The body part(s) of the baby developing at the time of the exposure is affected by the tetratogen. A prime example is the drug Thalidomide that mothers took several decades ago (in Europe, for the biggest part). The mothers that took the drug while the baby's legs and arms were developing delivered babies that had deformed arms and legs. While I haven't really studied about a cause and effect relationship between smoking causing eye problems for the infant, I don't doubt the possibility at all -- given the large number of components in the smoke and their various characteristics -- none of which are good for the body.

I don't imagine it was easy quitting. Bottom line. You did it! :clap: And, your body quickly starting healing itself. :)

The nicotine addiction has to be a strong process. Many smokers would quit if they could. They want to ... but just can't seem to do it. Congratulations are in order for those that can. :thumbsup: And, for those still battling the addiction, prayer and support are desperately needed. :prayer:

[LilAngelHeart]

You are most welcome.

I wrote a weekly SHE (safety, health, and environmental) memo at work for a year-and-a-half. The tobacco smoke study was originally sent out as SHE memos over a four-week period to about 300 people. Later, it was sent out to the whole plant site, including contractors. I anticipated some "ruffled feathers," but did not receive any negative feedback -- which was a pleasant surprise.

I since have made a few revisions to the study (correcting a few typos and changing the wording in a few sections). I keep paper copies available in the foyer of the church building for visitors and members. I also send the study out via e-mail for those that request it. The plant doctor reviewed and critiqued the study for me. She was concerned that it might be a bit too technical or indepth for many people. I suspect that she's right, but I wanted to make it clear to folks that the medical community understands the nicotine addiction process and extensive damage done to the body better than we might think they do. I know that I was absolutely shocked when I first found out that nicotine is a naturally occurring insecticide. Imagine being addicted to an insecticide! It's sure NOT marketed that way, is it?

Oh okay, that's good! And yes you are right, it sure isn't marketed that way! People need to know that too. :thumbsup:

[LilAngelHeart]

Whew, I hadn't heard of something like this before. Typically, a tetratogen is something that the mother absorbs and affects the baby -- with timing being the critical factor. The body part(s) of the baby developing at the time of the exposure is affected by the tetratogen. A prime example is the drug Thalidomide that mothers took several decades ago (in Europe, for the biggest part). The mothers that took the drug while the baby's legs and arms were developing delivered babies that had deformed arms and legs. While I haven't really studied about a cause and effect relationship between smoking causing eye problems for the infant, I don't doubt the possibility at all -- given the large number of components in the smoke and their various characteristics -- none of which are good for the body.



That sounds similar to something that happened here too some years ago, I think in the 50's where for like a decade or something a LOT of women were having babies born with no arms, but normal in other ways. Have you heard of that? I don't know what drug it was but they stopped using it on pregnant women after they found the culprit, I think the mothers or the people themselves got a sum of money for it once they grew up from like a law suit or something. I only know vaguely about it because thank God that was before I was born but I would see a LOT of adults all around the same age who had like no arms around here.

Yes it is so true how what the mother takes in can and does get into the baby's blood stream, some babies are born drunk and high. It is sad. :prayer: So some babies can be born addicted to cigarettes if the mom smokes. I like that billboard they had around here about smoking while pregnant and they had a picture of a woman's pregnant belly with a lit cigarette in her bellybutton! LOL! that billboard was so true too! If the mom smokes while pregnant it's like literally giving a lit cigarette to her unborn baby.

[- DRA -]

i think im the youngest smoker in this thread right here. i've been socially smoking for about a year now and still am not addicted, and honestly dont think i will. i never have the urge or desire to, and only do it on occassion with friends. i've nevershed a single single penny on a pack and i dont smell. most of you probly would think this dosnt even count but im just adding my 2 cents. i can go up to a month or with out one and then turn around then next day and have a half a pack in one day, it just vairies for me. no i dont think it's a sin, unless it's somehow interfering with your spiritual life, i see nothing wrong with it

Hmmm. This is interesting. Not to be too personal, but it seems as if you are smoking to impress your friends/peers.

As far as you smoking and NOT smelling is concerned ... well, uh, let me just get straight to the point -- if you smoke you smell like smoke. Simple as that. Perhaps you don't smell it because of olfactory fatigue ... where the sense of smell is overcome by a substance to the point that the person no longer detects its presence. Hydrogen sulfide kills people like this. People initially smell it, then stop smelling it and think it's gone. But it's still there. They just weren't able to smell it any longer. Perhaps this is what is happening to you. If my wife is around someone that smokes, her hair picks up the smell like a magnet. It even gets in her clothes. When you don't smoke, it's not hard to detect who does -- the smell will give the smoker away every time.

Now, back to your friends and smoking. Since you can take it or leave it, why not just leave it? Let's think about it from a few different angles. You may not be buying the smokes, but someone is, right? That means that someone is paying good money for a product that gives absolutely nothing in return to the user, but on the average takes 12 and 1/2 years off the life of the user --because most users will become addicted and become a long time user. Why play with fire (literally)? Sure, everyone has to die, right? Agreed. Adam and Eve's sin in the garden and the resulting punishment by loosing access to the tree of life sends the rest of us down the same road that they followed -- death. But why speed up the process?

Real story ... not fiction. My Mom and Dad both smoked unfiltered Camels, which ultimately ended up leading to their premature deaths. Neither had any serious health problems before coming down with cancer. Dad died in late 1998. Mom in mid 1990. Adding back to their lives the 12 and 1/2 years (on the average) that smoking takes away, they would be alive to early 2011 and late 2013, respectively. Think about it. I still do.

Look back to post # 21. There is a link to a study that you may profit from. I personally know the guy that wrote this study, and can vouch that he doesn't want you or your loved ones to go through what he saw others suffer ... nor does he want anyone to have to watch their loved ones suffer.

Suggestion. Before you "guys" light-up again, why not do a little research on nicotine. I imagine that it will leave several people more than a little upset. Don't know 'bout you, but I personally don't see anything cool about smoking something in which the active ingredient is an insecticide. Got your interest? Go to page 2 of Part II of the study. Note the picture in the center of the page. It shows how the body confuses nicotine for acetylcholine. What the writer doesn't elaborate on is that too much nicotine causes the brain to loose its ability to communicate with the muscles, heart, and lungs. Obviously, the outcome is that you don't get to die of old age. And, just to make sure you see the "big picture," this process is how insecticides do their work. In the right dosage they kill us just as dead as they kill bugs. But, that's a short term thing. There's the other problem -- like all those chemicals that are breathed into the body and absorbed. Oh, and don't forget about the tar residue left in the lungs (there is a picture of it in the study). It's not a very pretty picture at all.

Okay, everyone knows that scare tactics don't work, right? Really? Check out 1 Corinthians 10:11 in your Bible. It concludes a text of Scripture in which the Corinthians are admonished to NOT make the same mistakes that their fathers did as they came out of Egyptian bondage. Simply stated, we should learn from others' mistakes. The principle is also true when it comes to smoking. Nothing to gain. Everything to loose. It kills others. It will kill us.

Smoking is a study in substance addiction. It doesn't start that way, but it is where it ends up. As far as the spiritual consequences of smoking are concerned, there is a special section of the study where I try to provoke some thought about principles the New Testament teaches that we should consider. Let me know what you think.

Sorry if I have come across in what may seem to be a blunt manner. It is not my intent. My intent is simply to share my concern for your life and well-being.

In His service, :bow:
... Denny

[- DRA -]

That sounds similar to something that happened here too some years ago, I think in the 50's where for like a decade or something a LOT of women were having babies born with no arms, but normal in other ways. Have you heard of that? I don't know what drug it was but they stopped using it on pregnant women after they found the culprit, I think the mothers or the people themselves got a sum of money for it once they grew up from like a law suit or something. I only know vaguely about it because thank God that was before I was born but I would see a LOT of adults all around the same age who had like no arms around here.

Yes it is so true how what the mother takes in can and does get into the baby's blood stream, some babies are born drunk and high. It is sad. :prayer: So some babies can be born addicted to cigarettes if the mom smokes. I like that billboard they had around here about smoking while pregnant and they had a picture of a woman's pregnant belly with a lit cigarette in her bellybutton! LOL! that billboard was so true too! If the mom smokes while pregnant it's like literally giving a lit cigarette to her unborn baby.



It sounds like you are describing Thalidomide. I went back and rechecked some of the basic facts surrounding it. It was prescribed to pregnant women during the 50s into the early 60s ... predominantly in Europe. It was given to help them relax and sleep. It is my understanding that it was not approved of for use in the States, so it had less of an impact here. The West Germans established the cause and effect relationship between the drug and the birth defects you described.

The smoking bellybutton is a powerful message ... which is true. The mother and baby share the same blood. Therefore, whatever mom gets exposed to ... the baby gets exposed to. There are studies that suggest a correlation between babies exposed to second-hand smoke and SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome), but a cause and effect relationship have not been established yet. But, it does make you wonder ...

Notice some time when you are driving or riding on the highway a mother or father smoking in a vehicle ... with the windows up ... and little ones in the car. The children are breathing the same stuff that the smoker is. While it is true they get a lesser (or diluted) dose, the point is that they are being exposed to a substance that has a record for killing more people than any other. I suspect the parents do it because they just don't know any better. Bottom line ... as harsh as it may seem ... if someone can't kick the habit and just has to smoke ... there's no reason or excuse for exposing other people (children or adult) to the hazard. It's just not the right thing to do.

Here's another angle. A lot of restaurants have no smoking sections that are very close to the smoking sections. While it does give the non-smoker a little distance from the smoke, the smoke is still circulated throughout the building by the ventilation system i.e. central air, ceiling fans. So, there you go -- everyone in the place is getting exposed to the smoke to some degree. The only places that are truly protecting the non-smoker are the places that have the smokers and non-smokers in separate rooms with separate ventilation systems. As you might suspect, such facilities are not common.

Okay, it's probably time to stop. Whew. Thanks for listening. It makes me feel better to vent some of my frustrations. Just think ... close to a half a million Americans a year are dying prematurely because of tobacco smoke. And, it hasn't been that long ago that the smoking craze spread to the developing countries. It seems those people are eager to enjoy the luxuries the Americans have had. The sad part is that tobacco smoke will kill them just like it has our people. What a shame. :cry:

[Svt4Him]

I didn't smell when I smoked. Either that, or I couldn't smell, because once I moved into a new house, all my stuff stunk like smoke, but I still didn't smell. It wasn't until I quit that smokes started to smell really bad. I think they changed the formula or something.

[hypostatic]

I've only recently quit smoking for good. I've tried quitting many times before, but I was able to do it only by telling God that I was going to quit. I told God I would quit from this month to this month, smoke for a week or two, and then quit again from this month to this month. I know I'm being called to quit permanently, but I've failed quitting cold turkey several times, and this is what has worked best for me. My addiction to smoking was limiting my relationship with God, and I knew it had to end!

I don't know how right this is, but I would make deals with God every time I quit. In other words, I'd quit for a period of time and ask for God's help in return.

Someone please shed some light on this!

[calidog]

congradulations on you're quiting. Unfortunately I continue.

[calidog]

God hears every prayer and answers them according to His will.

[nb_christseeker]

read
matthew 15 : (nothing outside the body going in can defile a man.)
mark 3:28-30 : (all sins and blasphemies forgiven except the one really bad one)

is smoking against the ten commandments? nope.

need there be any more proof? not for a believer. we are free to smoke or not.

[PorcelainHeart]

Smoking is very harmful for the body so I don't think it's ok health wise, but I don't think it's a sin. I really don't like smoking on how it effected my health and also my mom's health. Because my mom smoked when she was pregnant with me I was born with alot of birth defects. Smoking almost killed my mom, she had a heart attack 10 mins after she smoked a cig.

[J4Jesus]

The Lord can deliver you from smoking or anything if you want to get rid of it.

[Entertaining_Angels]

Smoking is very harmful for the body so I don't think it's ok health wise, but I don't think it's a sin. I really don't like smoking on how it effected my health and also my mom's health. Because my mom smoked when she was pregnant with me I was born with alot of birth defects. Smoking almost killed my mom, she had a heart attack 10 mins after she smoked a cig.

Yes, my brother is blind in one eye because my mother smoked and he had some serious behavioral issues as a child.

[justcallmejamie]

Smoking cigarettes came up on another thread and I am curious as to what other Christians think.

Is it okay for a Christian to smoke?

As for me, I'm a former two-pack-a-day smoker and smoked nearly ten years. I know I now smell a lot better and am amazed at how it feels to really breathe now. Also, that money I was tossing away on smokes is put to far better uses. But, are those really reasons for a Christian to quit? One way to look at it, a Christian who smokes has a much better shot at meeting God face to face much earlier than the rest of us. :)

Thoughts, comments, smart remarks?

i was always convicted about smoking, so i quit. i think its wrong. But when i see a christian smoking i dont judge them,they may not be convicted about it yet, maybe God is working on something else in there lives at the moment. Let God tell em its wrong, he will for sure in his time.

[Normann]

Smoking cigarettes came up on another thread and I am curious as to what other Christians think.

Is it okay for a Christian to smoke?

As for me, I'm a former two-pack-a-day smoker and smoked nearly ten years. I know I now smell a lot better and am amazed at how it feels to really breathe now. Also, that money I was tossing away on smokes is put to far better uses. But, are those really reasons for a Christian to quit? One way to look at it, a Christian who smokes has a much better shot at meeting God face to face much earlier than the rest of us. :)

Thoughts, comments, smart remarks?


The cigarette is a filthy weed,
And from the Devil did proceed,
It picks your pocket and burns your clothes,
And makes a chemney out of your nose!


Normann

[Normann]

i think im the youngest smoker in this thread right here. i've been socially smoking for about a year now and still am not addicted, and honestly dont think i will. i never have the urge or desire to, and only do it on occassion with friends. i've nevershed a single single penny on a pack and i dont smell. most of you probly would think this dosnt even count but im just adding my 2 cents. i can go up to a month or with out one and then turn around then next day and have a half a pack in one day, it just vairies for me. no i dont think it's a sin, unless it's somehow interfering with your spiritual life, i see nothing wrong with it


Being that cigarette smoke causes cancer and other problems I am sure there will not be any smoking in heaven.

Is it right for one to blow smoke into the air that I need to breath and impose upon me the task of finding fresh air?

Also if it is not a sin to smoke why are not there ash trays on the back of the church pews?

Can you picture God sitting on His Throne in Heaven smoking?

Smoking is carnal; let's walk after the Spirit.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

[GodsJewel]

No, It isn't good for anyone to smoke. My mother has smoked for almost 30 years. She's 47 now and a few years ago the doctor told her she has the lungs of an 80 year old. It seems like that would've scared her enough to quit. But she still smokes about 2 packs a day.

[mysparrow]

Paul said something like all things are lawful, but I will not be under the power of any.

Smoking is addictive.

actually i think it is , all things are lawful, but not all things beneficial , or expedient. which means , it may not be a sin, but its not healthy , to me . We are no longer bound by the law but God gives us the common sense to know to take care of our bodies, it is the same with eating or anything else, but that is between a person and God , and should be kept an individual, personal , decision, i think sometimes we tend to want to tell everyone what God wants them to do in such matters, and not let God tell them himself what and when. Im reminded quite a few years ago, i was listening to secular music quite a bit , ended up to be more than music to uplift and edify Christ, people berated me for it , i just got more stubborn, telling them that had nothing to do with whether i followed Christ or loved him. Over the course of years, God began to slowly work in me on that, it became not as appealing, and before i knew it , i was just not satisfied listening to secular music at all. I guess its all a growth process, and for each is different on the things that hinder us from becoming closer in our own individual walk. What may hinder you might not hinder me , and vice versa, I think we jsut need to let God be God . :)

[calidog]

I am a smoker looking forward to a place where there is no more temptation (or smoking)

[PastorJoey]

I dont believe that smoking will send any one to hell, but it will make you smell like youve been there and it may get you to heaven quicker.:D ^_^
PJ

[J4Jesus]

I dont believe that smoking will send any one to hell, but it will make you smell like youve been there and it may get you to heaven quicker.:D ^_^
PJ

Pastor J!
LOL :clap:
That is still so funny every time I hear it ^_^

[breezynosacek]

Well, it is refreshing to see that most of you have grown spiritually in this area over the past year. Last year, or maybe a little longer ago, there were people trying to tell others that they were going to hell if they didn't quit!!!

But, I still hear a little condemnation in there. Which doesn't suprise me at all. People tend to be a product of their denominational beliefs and others just allow themselves to come under condemnation and assume that it must be the "Lord".

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one sit in judgment on you in matters of food and drink, or with regard to a feast day or a New Moon or a Sabbath.

Col 2:17 Such [things] are only the shadow of things that are to come, {and} they have only a symbolic value. But the reality (the substance, the solid fact of what is foreshadowed, the body of it) belongs to Christ.

Col 2:18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire {and} declaring you unworthy {and} disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions {and} inflated by his unspiritual thoughts {and} fleshly conceit,

Col 2:19 And not holding fast to the Head, from Whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by means of its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

Col 2:20 If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things {and} have escaped from the world's crude {and} elemental notions {and} teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules {and} regulations?--such as]

Col 2:21 Do not handle [this], Do not taste [that], Do not even touch [them],

Col 2:22 Referring to things all of which perish with being used. To do this is to follow human precepts and doctrines.

Col 2:23 Such [practices] have indeed the outward appearance [that popularly passes] for wisdom, in promoting self-imposed rigor of devotion {and} delight in self-humiliation {and} severity of discipline of the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh (the lower nature). [Instead, they do not honor God but serve only to indulge the flesh.]

Just make sure if you do quit your motives are right, otherwise, it could well be a sin!

And just for the sake of those who are constantly attacked by those that misquote Scripture, the following passage is often used to browbeat people into their traditions and rules.

However the passage is in reference to sexual immorality and THAT is a sin against the body (temple).

1 Cor 6:12 Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything {or} be brought under its power.

1 Cor 6:13 Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both {and} bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [to save, sanctify, and raise it again].

1 Cor 6:14 And God both raised the Lord to life and will also raise us up by His power.

1 Cor 6:15 Do you not see {and} know that your bodies are members (bodily parts) of Christ (the Messiah)? Am I therefore to take the parts of Christ and make [them] parts of a prostitute? Never! Never!

1 Cor 6:16 Or do you not know {and} realize that when a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? The two, it is written, shall become one flesh.

1 Cor 6:17 But the person who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.

1 Cor 6:18 Shun immorality {and} all sexual looseness [flee from impurity in thought, word, or deed]. Any other sin which a man commits is one outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor 6:19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,

That is also in line with Christians being told not to marry unbelievers.

To my understanding, we should submit every area of our lives to Jesus Christ. There have been specific times that the Lord told me not to smoke. But, I have liberty in Christ. I'm not in bondage to rules and regulations of others. Just as there may be a time when eating meat might offend a vegetarian, ect.

[calidog]

I dont believe that smoking will send any one to hell, but it will make you smell like youve been there and it may get you to heaven quicker.:D ^_^
PJthank you, I do appreciate that.:)

[nb_christseeker]

Act 15:24-30 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: (25) It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, (26) Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (27) We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. (28) For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; (29) That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (30) So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:


4 things. 4. ok? 4. don't let the blind leaders of the blind trouble you.

so keep your privates private between you and your spouse of the opposite sex.

as for smoking? lol. its just like, whatever man. have a smoke. who cares?

the real people who have a problem are the people who judge their neighbors for smoking.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Condemn, and you will be condemned.

[Andy Broadley]

I dont believe that smoking will send any one to hell, but it will make you smell like youve been there and it may get you to heaven quicker.:D ^_^
PJ

Very true. I actually do smoke, but desperately fighting it. Down to under ten day and looking to quit altogether.

I do want to spend eternity with my Lord, just not yet

[justcallmejamie]

4 things. 4. ok? 4. don't let the blind leaders of the blind trouble you.

so keep your privates private between you and your spouse of the opposite sex.

as for smoking? lol. its just like, whatever man. have a smoke. who cares?

the real people who have a problem are the people who judge their neighbors for smoking.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Condemn, and you will be condemned.

amen i would add to your rep but you dont have a button for it

[breezynosacek]

Act 15:24-30 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: (25) It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, (26) Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (27) We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. (28) For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; (29) That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (30) So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:


4 things. 4. ok? 4. don't let the blind leaders of the blind trouble you.

so keep your privates private between you and your spouse of the opposite sex.

as for smoking? lol. its just like, whatever man. have a smoke. who cares?

the real people who have a problem are the people who judge their neighbors for smoking.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Condemn, and you will be condemned.

:amen: I should blush that I didn't remember that one but am very familiar with it. God Bless!

[breezynosacek]

Very true. I actually do smoke, but desperately fighting it. Down to under ten day and looking to quit altogether.

I do want to spend eternity with my Lord, just not yet

LOL, there is not a month that goes by that I don't ask the Lord, Please Lord, could you let me hurry up and get my work done so I can come home??? Please???

Tired ole worn out body, been beat up too many times. Tired ole worn out spirit, seen too much and see too much to come. Just wanna go home to Jesus and let Him pick me up and wrap me in His arms and let me rest. I want that rest soo badly, but He says not yet. Just a little while longer, little lamb, just a little while longer.

[stone]

cigarettes are a bad seed, if you smoke them you need to start learning to live without them.:wave:

[Forest]

Smoking is so addicitve that it may control you.
Are serious addictions a sin?

(I have never smoked, but admit to being addicted to caffeine.)

Odds are very high that Smoking will kill you or at least shorten your life.
Is putting your life at risk or taking years off your life a sin?

Smoking may put others at risk for serious disease.
Is putting others at risk a sin?

Will smoking condem you?
I would say not, but do believe that quitting should be a priority.

[Agent]

And then there is the christian who smokes to reach those who smokes...someone has posted earlier that gangbangers that were saved can reach people who are gangbangers, in the same way it is hard for a non-smoker to reach someone who wants to quit but doesn't know how. But i know plenty of people who have smoked their whole life only to die old... I really do not think that God is petty and says: "If thou smoketh thou shall perisheth!"

My God is bigger then that.

[- DRA -]

read
matthew 15 : (nothing outside the body going in can defile a man.)
mark 3:28-30 : (all sins and blasphemies forgiven except the one really bad one)

is smoking against the ten commandments? nope.

need there be any more proof? not for a believer. we are free to smoke or not.

Matthew 15 is showing where sin originates -- in the heart (mind). In essence, the Lord is showing us that our actions are based on our thoughts.
Today, one usually begins smoking because of peer pressure or to feel like they fit in. Given some amount of time as one continues smoking, an addiction to nicotine takes place. At this point, the body's cravings for nicotine take over. Given long-term exposure to tobacco smoke, the numerous toxins take their toll on the body.

Consider the principle Jesus taught in Matthew 4:5-7. God offered Jesus protection, but the Lord still wouldn't deliberately put Himself in harm's way --because that would have been in violation of Deuteronomy 6:16. Isn't this something that those who smoke and profess to follow Christ should consider?

Concerning the ten commandments ... they were given exclusively to the Israelites (Romans 2:14). And, the law of Moses included much more than just the ten commandments e.g. Leviticus 10:1-2.

[- DRA -]

I've only recently quit smoking for good. I've tried quitting many times before, but I was able to do it only by telling God that I was going to quit. I told God I would quit from this month to this month, smoke for a week or two, and then quit again from this month to this month. I know I'm being called to quit permanently, but I've failed quitting cold turkey several times, and this is what has worked best for me. My addiction to smoking was limiting my relationship with God, and I knew it had to end!

I don't know how right this is, but I would make deals with God every time I quit. In other words, I'd quit for a period of time and ask for God's help in return.

Someone please shed some light on this!

May God bless you as you continue with this struggle. :prayer:

Don't give up. As you probably already know, the intense cravings subside after about 5-6 weeks. However, the battle will continue for some period of time.

I lost both parents to smoking. Please do not follow in their footsteps. Life is too precious.

As for the cycle that you describe where you abstain for awhile and then indulge again, all of us go through that same cycle with many of the problems that we deal with. However, the addiction to nicotine is harder to deal with because of the physical things happening within the body.

Hang in there. Keep battling. :thumbsup:

[- DRA -]

Smoking is very harmful for the body so I don't think it's ok health wise, but I don't think it's a sin. I really don't like smoking on how it effected my health and also my mom's health. Because my mom smoked when she was pregnant with me I was born with alot of birth defects. Smoking almost killed my mom, she had a heart attack 10 mins after she smoked a cig.

The nicotine in tobacco smoke makes the platelets stickier than normal, the smooth muscles of the arteries to constrict, and the heart rate to increase. In a nutshell, this drastically increases the likelihood of a heart attack. And, since the body absorbs the nicotine in tobacco smoke within seconds, that definitely fits the description of the heart attack you describe that your mother suffered.

Like you, I was exposed to second-hand smoke due to both parents smoking.

Not sure that I understand the connection between smoking and birth defects, but given the large number of chemicals in smoke I really wouldn't be surprised at all to find that some have an adverse effect on the baby.

Rather than trying to reason whether or not smoking is a sin, I try to reason on the basis of why anyone should start to smoke, their example as a smoker, the damage they are doing to their body, the damage they are doing to others exposed to the smoke, and why they shouldn't try to stop smoking. However, I do think that the principle taught in Matthew 4:5-7 definitely has an application to smoking and should be considered.

[Normann]

How much more could be donated to Missions if everyone stopped smoking and sent their cigarette money to the proper people.

There will be no smoking in heaven so why get in the habit.

Normann

[- DRA -]

Very true. I actually do smoke, but desperately fighting it. Down to under ten day and looking to quit altogether.

I do want to spend eternity with my Lord, just not yet

God bless you. Your struggle is tough ... but worth the effort. :thumbsup:

Fight this addiction like your life depends on it, because using the statistics supplied by the CDC/NIOSH about 12.5 years of your life depends on whether or not you can stop smoking.

[Normann]

Even without scripture is it commonly known that smoking is wrong and bad for your health. For years I was forced to breath second hand smoke in the work place, then people began to wise up.

Some will make excuse for their vice and claim to have a bigger God as if an unwritten law of God approves of such things as smoking and drinking. I've even heard the lame excuse for those living in adultery "in God's eyes we're married".

I have always had compassion on those who smoke becuase I never did and so I don't know how hard it is to quit. However I strongly disagree with those that want to excuse it. The strongest blow to a fault is to first admit we have it.

Let's get real, there will be no smoking in heaven. If you smoke please work on quitting not making excuses. Ask those of us that do not smoke to pray for you. Jesus loves you, smoke or no smoke, but if you love Jesus too then work on pleasing him and our heavenly Father.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

[DunamisHaptomai]

:preach: Repent thou foul weed puffing Opps..........er just a sec.........ow ow ow .........hot hot hot........er.........OK......where was I?


Oh yeah, repent thou...

:D

[- DRA -]

:preach: Repent thou foul weed puffing Opps..........er just a sec.........ow ow ow .........hot hot hot........er.........OK......where was I?


Oh yeah, repent thou...

:D

Food for thought: Nicotine is a natural insecticide. Imagine people being addicted to an insecticide. Come to think of it ... we don't have to imagine it. We can see it everyday all around us.

Repentance is a powerful word. It involves ceasing to do what is wrong and doing what is right. What do you propose the smoker do?

[Theophorus]

smoking is a lesser offense than some passions, such as lust fornication, drunkeness, sloth and laziness. It is equall to covetousness, envy, gluttony, greed etc, imo.

Never the less, it is a passion of the flesh, as all others. One should struggle against it.

[- DRA -]

smoking is a lesser offense than some passions, such as lust fornication, drunkeness, sloth and laziness. It is equall to covetousness, envy, gluttony, greed etc, imo.

Never the less, it is a passion of the flesh, as all others. One should struggle against it.

Not sure what the basis is for your categorization of sin. I understand that James 2:1-12 teaches us not to categorize sin.

[Theophorus]

Not sure what the basis is for your categorization of sin. I understand that James 2:1-12 teaches us not to categorize sin.

There are many statements in the Gospels about people falling into degrees of condemnation. That is for our personal admonishment, not a measuring stick for judgement, or when we limit the reach of God's mercy on others.

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by: Theophorus

smoking is a lesser offense than some passions, such as lust fornication, drunkeness, sloth and laziness. It is equall to covetousness, envy, gluttony, greed etc, imo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (NKJV)."

And, Romans 1:28-32 says, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

I still don't quite understand how you take a list of things like these with the same consequences and selectively separate them by greater and lesser offenses. The text doesn't do that.

[Theophorus]

I still don't quite understand how you take a list of things like these with the same consequences and selectively separate them by greater and lesser offenses. The text doesn't do that.

There are text that say condemnation is greater for believers than for unbelievers, for to much who has been given, much is required, and also for teachers, for they are more accountable. But these miss the point. The consequence is not, do I still get in or not, or how bad is my punishment. As you say, all sin seperates. The seriousness of the sin is how much we regect or withdraw from God. How far is our fall. The scriptures talk of tyrre and sydon being worse off than sodom and gomorrah, and of God turning men over to their depravity. That is the issue.

[Boshirou]

Personally During the Spring I took up cigar smoking with some friends. Many in the church had problems with this. Pastors we have had in the past and present though have smoked cigars(Though not common knowledge). Just this weekend while talking to a Pastor of a new Church I causally attend in addition to my regular church, he offered to bring my friend and I some cigars back from a trip he’s taking.



Late summer I transitioned to smoking a pipe. So I began going to an exclusive Pipe Club, and interestingly enough there are a lot of Christians there. Each time I have gone, I have run into a few Pastors, Priests, Seminary Students, etc. and we have sat down in a group and discussed God. Now I’m not saying smoking is necessarily correct but rather just wanted to point out that many within the church already smoke. For example C.S. Lewis.


...Let's get real, there will be no smoking in heaven...



As C.S. Lewis said in “A Grief Observed”

"There are cigars in Heaven. For that is what we should all like. The happy past restored."



Now I’m taking this out of context for the soul purpose of showing that many people we see as authority might not agree with generalizations about things being ‘wrong’. When they are more so unhealthy.



Personally I would discourage people from smoking, for health reasons, but honestly there are a lot of things people should also watch if they are going to preach against smoking. Such as McDonald’s, not exercising, Coke or Pepsi, etc.

[robertlive]

WHAT WOULD WOULD JESUS SMOKE? NOT!! IM NOT CONDEMING YOU HOWEVER JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 11:29 tAKE HIS YOKE UPON YOU AND LEARN OF ME WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST PICTURE SOMEONE GOING INTO A CHURCH AND DUMPING CIGARETTE BUTS ON THE FLOOR AND LITERALLY SCRUBBING THE WALLS WITH IT:eek:

[Tangnefedd]

I have never understood the idea of the body being the temple of the HS, does that mean we have a spook inside us?

Smoking is daft, because it is proven to be harmful to smokers, and those around them. But providing a smoker is not poisoning me and mine, what they do to their body in the privacy of their own home is their business.

[- DRA -]

I have never understood the idea of the body being the temple of the HS, does that mean we have a spook inside us?

Smoking is daft, because it is proven to be harmful to smokers, and those around them. But providing a smoker is not poisoning me and mine, what they do to their body in the privacy of their own home is their business.

1 Cor. 6:19 says, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" (NKJV)

The passage is implying that in some sense the Holy Spirit -- not a spook -- is in the Christian. The context is that a Christian should flee from sexual immorality (or fornication). The Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer is a motivator to be righteous.

Whatever a person does in private is between them and God. However, if it is wrong, it is wrong -- it doesn't necessarily matter if it's private or public -- it's still wrong.

[Tangnefedd]

If it is right for you it is right, always with the proviso that no one else is hurt!

[- DRA -]

Personally During the Spring I took up cigar smoking with some friends. Many in the church had problems with this. Pastors we have had in the past and present though have smoked cigars(Though not common knowledge). Just this weekend while talking to a Pastor of a new Church I causally attend in addition to my regular church, he offered to bring my friend and I some cigars back from a trip he’s taking.



Late summer I transitioned to smoking a pipe. So I began going to an exclusive Pipe Club, and interestingly enough there are a lot of Christians there. Each time I have gone, I have run into a few Pastors, Priests, Seminary Students, etc. and we have sat down in a group and discussed God. Now I’m not saying smoking is necessarily correct but rather just wanted to point out that many within the church already smoke. For example C.S. Lewis.






As C.S. Lewis said in “A Grief Observed”

"There are cigars in Heaven. For that is what we should all like. The happy past restored."



Now I’m taking this out of context for the soul purpose of showing that many people we see as authority might not agree with generalizations about things being ‘wrong’. When they are more so unhealthy.



2 Corinthians 10:12b addresses those who measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves among themselves. Concisely stated, they were seeing how they measured up against each other, which is the wrong standard. Think about it.

Personally I would discourage people from smoking, for health reasons, but honestly there are a lot of things people should also watch if they are going to preach against smoking. Such as McDonald’s, not exercising, Coke or Pepsi, etc.



Fast food, exercise, and sodas are health topics, but not in the same category as tobacco products. Why not? Because food, exercise, and drink are necessities for the body's health. Therefore, we strigg;e to get that right amount of each that is best for our health. On the other hand, smoking is NOT a necessity for a person's good health. Therefore, the comparison simply will not work. Tobacco smoke is not about getting the right amount of a nutrient the body needs without getting too much -- as would be the case with saturated fats and eating at McDonald's. Rather, smoking is about why a person exposes him/herself (and possibly others) to the toxins, solvents, acids, irritants, and KNOWN carcinogens in tobacco smoke. In essence, the question that arises is why pay good money for a product that, on the average, will take off 12.5 years a person's life? In short, nothing to gain -- but plenty to loose.

[Boshirou]

2 Corinthians 10:12b addresses those who measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves among themselves. Concisely stated, they were seeing how they measured up against each other, which is the wrong standard. Think about it.



True. But in this verse Paul is addressing his authority as an apostle as he was being attacked on the basis of being meek in person and commanding in letter and telling those to not commend someone based on their own personal standing within themselves, but off of there success within the work God has given them. What I am trying to get across is that the people I know who have actually had extensive theological and ethical training, how many of them don’t have any ethical qualms with smoking and have all been successful in their ministries.



Fast food, exercise, and sodas are health topics, but not in the same category as tobacco products. Why not? Because food, exercise, and drink are necessities for the body's health. Therefore, we strigg;e to get that right amount of each that is best for our health. On the other hand, smoking is NOT a necessity for a person's good health. Therefore, the comparison simply will not work. Tobacco smoke is not about getting the right amount of a nutrient the body needs without getting too much -- as would be the case with saturated fats and eating at McDonald's. Rather, smoking is about why a person exposes him/herself (and possibly others) to the toxins, solvents, acids, irritants, and KNOWN carcinogens in tobacco smoke. In essence, the question that arises is why pay good money for a product that, on the average, will take off 12.5 years a person's life? In short, nothing to gain -- but plenty to loose.



About the necessities of what I listed. Pop isn’t required for life, neither is McDonalds. They are unhealthy versions of food and drink which humans consume for pleasure. If you categorize pop and fast food as food and drink, then you can also categorize smoke as air, another unhealthy version of something our bodies need. No I concede the difference is healthier air is always present, unlike food, but the point is people go out of their way in both instances normally to intake these unhealthy habits.



On a side note, while our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit the temple itself was filled with smoke. (don’t even respond to this one, I know I’m being stupid)



Now enough of defending it, I will say again my stance. It is not a sin or wrong to smoke, but it is better not to smoke.

[- DRA -]

I still think my point is valid. Those being addressed in 2 Corinthians 2:10 were using the wrong standard. Rather than looking at God's word and the apostles' doctrine i.e. Acts 2:42, they measured themselves by themselves and compared themselves among themselves. Thus, they were not wise. On the same note, your reasoning is based on what others are doing and assumes that it must be okay if they don't have a problem with it. We could assume the same thing about those who opposed the apostles. In fact, we could use this same principle and really run with it on a lot of issues. However, I suspect that it would also put us into the category of those who are NOT wise.

Sorry, but smoking doesn't belong in a discussion about trying to keep our bodies supplied with food and drink and trying to keep calories, fats, sugars, etc. at a proper level. There is NO such balance in smoking. Whether you accept it or not, even the unhealthiest food on McDonald's menu does supply us with nutrients that the body needs. And, sodas do provide us with liquid that the body can use for hydration.

Smoking is not about the oxygen that one needs to stay alive, but about the nicotine the smoker has become dependant on.

Food (?) for thought:
Wouldn't red meat and other unhealthy meats have been included in Peter's vision in Acts 10:10-16? Sure they would have. I realize that this isn't the real point of the vision, but it does show that the law of Moses had ended along with its prohibitions about eating unclean animals (those that were not lawful under the law of Moses), and that those animals were now acceptable as food. That leaves us with a broad range of meats today that we can consume in accordance to God's will -- if we choose (Romans 14:2-3).

On the other hand, where does smoking ... I mean nicotine addiction fit into this picture? It doesn't. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

[SteelDisciple]

I like how some people compare Cigarettes to something like eating at Mcdonalds in the same health category...because..you know...just like Cigarettes...various forms of POISONS are injected into the burgers as well....

/sarcasm

:)

[Lecarde]

Poisoning by excess fat is just as dangerous as poison by occasional smoke exposure. If you ate 40 burgers a day, you would feel a heck of a lot worse than if you smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day.

[Tangnefedd]

I think that is the sort of excuse smokers trot out. Eating in excess is bad for you, but realistically who eats 40 burgers a day? However, eating in moderation is necessary to keep one alive. Smoking even two cigarettes a day is BAD and can NEVER be good for you!

[holo]

Agreed, smoking is bad for you, but it's still cool.

[Tangnefedd]

Agreed, smoking is bad for you, but it's still cool.


Cool :scratch: I take it you are joking? :scratch: :scratch:

[holo]

I take it you are joking?Nah, smoking does look cool, that's why young people are still starting. And personally I always feel kinda cool when I light one up.

I'm a party smoker, and every day is a party, yay!

[Tangnefedd]

What is cool about smoking, it is a filthy habit and people lighting up are more likely to be looked down upon these days!!!

[lordfalconer]

its not the act of smoking thats cool, im sure all agree is not hte most pleasent of activities, the reason smoking is cool is that its been advertised that way, and such is the grip that advertisments have on our modern world its all believed.

[holo]

What is cool about smoking, it is a filthy habit and people lighting up are more likely to be looked down upon these days!!!That's why I only hang with people who grew up in the 50s. They have better taste in clothes and cars anyway, and they like real music.

[Tangnefedd]

That's why I only hang with people who grew up in the 50s. They have better taste in clothes and cars anyway, and they like real music.

I think you are trying to wind folk up that or you have lied about your age! :P

[- DRA -]

I am confident that my parents thought they were "cool" when they started smoking many years ago. However, I seriously doubt that my dad thought it was cool when he was feeling the effects of radiation treatments and the continuing suffering from the effects of throat cancer. And, for sure, my mom didn't think it was cool when she was sucking on the nebulizer mask trying to get more oxygen and every little tiny drop of morphine from the reservoir to ease the effects of the lung cancer that was killing her.

Yep, smoking is probably "cool" for some people because it means they find acceptance from the crowd that they run with. Mom and dad are both gone now. While smoking may have appeared cool to them when they started, it sure didn't end up that way.

[ArohaB]

If you think you're cool, then you're just a fool,
Sucking on a stick that smells like the gutter.

This was an advert we had on TV some time back in NZ

When I first started reading this thread it starts off all up beat and happy now it's slowing down so I've come to pick it back up.

To all the non-smokers, good on you for having never smoked.

To all the reformed-smokers, who is the more grateful? The one who is forgiven little or the one who is forgiven alot? We are a most grateful bunch, thanks be to the living God for delivering us from the slavery of smoking.

To all of the want to give up-smokers, the Lord strengthen and uplift you, with God all things are possible, do not be condemned rather be convicted in your Spirits.

And to all of the I love smoking-smokers, it's not a sin-smokers, i'll smoke if I want to-smokers. Been there done that!

[heatherq17]

I dont think its ok for anyone to be smoking christian or not. Now I dont know what he bible says about it

[Tangnefedd]

:scratch: I think you might discover that cigarettes had not been invented in Biblical days, but then again I could be wrong!!!

[SteelDisciple]

all you have to do is ask yourself this:
"Is smoking something that contains rat poison and a collection of other poisons something good I want to fill my body with?"

[ArohaB]

all you have to do is ask yourself this:
"Is smoking something that contains rat poison and a collection of other poisons something good I want to fill my body with?"

Amen

[holo]

:scratch: I think you might discover that cigarettes had not been invented in Biblical days, but then again I could be wrong!!!Haha!
There's something about your reading your posts and having a beer or two. A smashing combination, as you might say in Britain. Or splendid or jolly. And bugger and tosser and other brilliant British words.

all you have to do is ask yourself this:
"Is smoking something that contains rat poison and a collection of other poisons something good I want to fill my body with?"Whaa?!

You mean you can actually figure out what is good and right using common sense, without having to analyze the bible first?
Whoa, somebody go tell the... well, all the christians.

[lil~peanut]

:wave:

Hi all, I didn't read everyone's post, but I don't think you should smoke Christian or not. I'm sure that the Lord frowns upon it because we are poisoning the bodies that the God gave us. So, I think he would probably not like us messing with ourselves. I am also a smoker, so it's not like I have room to talk. Well, actually, I quit 2 days ago. :blush: We'll see.....

[Key]

Lovely how the most current health crusades can suddenly be the "Will of God"

Next shall it be "God Hates Fat People" and then "God Hates people with Bad teeth" winding down to "God hates people with less then perfect skin and blond hair" Oh, Wait, I have heard a line like that, something about Blond, Blue Eyed, ideal human specimines being Gods Chosen people.. Anyone remember something like that being said a while back...

But then again, I have seen religious groups that say to eat meat is wrong according to God.

I say, Have your own mind, it takes more will power to smoke in this world of nay sayers that can do nothing more with their time then stick their nose into others lives, then it does to be pressured by the "Group" to quit.

But to each thir own.

God Bless
Key.

[davidslaysgoliath]

Smoking cigarettes is very stupid... But I don't think it's a sin.
It's no more a sin than drinking Coca-Cola or eating fried chicken. All of them will kill you just as fast as the other.

That's my opinion. ;)

[- DRA -]

Lovely how the most current health crusades can suddenly be the "Will of God"

Next shall it be "God Hates Fat People" and then "God Hates people with Bad teeth" winding down to "God hates people with less then perfect skin and blond hair" Oh, Wait, I have heard a line like that, something about Blond, Blue Eyed, ideal human specimines being Gods Chosen people.. Anyone remember something like that being said a while back...

But then again, I have seen religious groups that say to eat meat is wrong according to God.

I say, Have your own mind, it takes more will power to smoke in this world of nay sayers that can do nothing more with their time then stick their nose into others lives, then it does to be pressured by the "Group" to quit.

But to each thir own.

God Bless
Key.

Is good health a "current" crusade?

Consider. 3 John 2 says, "Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers."

It is a given that some people eat too many calories and gain weight. However, what I fail to see is how they end up being compared to smokers. People have to eat to survive. The struggle comes in being able to limit the intake to what the body actually needs. Let's contrast this with smoking. Smoking is not necessary for survival. Consequently, there is no struggle trying to limit the intake to what the body actually needs, because none of the components of tobacco smoke are supplying the body's needs. It is only after smoking for some period of time that a need arises within the body -- to continue to supply the nicotine the body has become addicted to. Smoking is about substance abuse, NOT about trying to balance the caloric intake and nutrient needs of the body to just the right levels.

[- DRA -]

:wave:

Hi all, I didn't read everyone's post, but I don't think you should smoke Christian or not. I'm sure that the Lord frowns upon it because we are poisoning the bodies that the God gave us. So, I think he would probably not like us messing with ourselves. I am also a smoker, so it's not like I have room to talk. Well, actually, I quit 2 days ago. :blush: We'll see.....

May God :bow: bless you and strengthen you in your efforts to "kick" the habit. :prayer:

I have a link to a detailed study that I did on the hazards of tobacco smoke on post # 21 on page 3. Here is a link back to that post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2186220-smoking-cigarettes.html&page=3

[savedbyfaithinchrist]

i smoke sometimes i smoke for 10 years and im happy that i dont smoke but maby 1 or 2 evry 6 months and only when i have a beer every 6 months i think the lord still loves me im sure hes not pointing at me :thumbsup: