Isaiah 52: 13 through 53

[dvd_holc]

I want to know something. The question is complex in nature because it is over many things. Is common reference of Isreal that spoke of throughout scripture refered to as a woman, man, or both? To my knowledge Isreal is the bride of God which considered a woman role so then Isreal would be refered to as a woman. Also, when there are certain passage that call her a woman about to give birth to the Messiah, man child, etc...

Further getting to Isaiah 52:13 through Chapter 53, is this about the Messiah? To me, it mirrors Jesus and speaks of a servant who is a man.

[Sephania]

Israel is G-ds wife, she is 'estranged' now, but he has promised to take her back. Yes Isa 52-53 is about Messiah

[dvd_holc]

thank you for you time...I was hoping for more responses...I like you signature.

What provoked this is a statement by a person who follows Judaism...who had a formal debate with one person about this verse...

[chokmah]

For those so inclined: it was me who had the debate in Formal Debates within the General Apologetics forum.

And the only reason I bring this up in this thread is to clarify that I am not following Judaism, but instead, was presenting the Judaic understanding of the post. I am a Noachide. ;)

[dvd_holc]

hey look at that...I did not know you could post on this...how interesting...

[dvd_holc]

For those so inclined: it was me who had the debate in Formal Debates within the General Apologetics forum.

And the only reason I bring this up in this thread is to clarify that I am not following Judaism, but instead, was presenting the Judaic understanding of the post. I am a Noachide. ;)

:) I did not know. I only saw you icon. I hope I did not offend you. If I did (which I doubt) please forgive me.

[dvd_holc]

hey since you are here chokmah, can you tell me since Israel is refered to as a woman throughout scripture (the bible) as a woman (and since that is what God is doing with the ten commandments and covanents making a marriage contract with the people) why then in this passage it uses the masculine usage for his servant?

[chokmah]

hey since you are here chokmah, can you tell me since Israel is refered to as a woman throughout scripture (the bible) as a woman (and since that is what God is doing with the ten commandments and covanents making a marriage contract with the people) why then in this passage it uses the masculine usage for his servant?
Unfortunately, DVD, if you would like to discuss things with me; it will have to be through PM or outside of this forum and up in the Non-Christian section.

Feel free to do either.

(and, no, you haven't offended me at all ;) )

Have a pleasant day.

[dvd_holc]

I wish open dialogue so that others by speak up also.

[chokmah]

I wish open dialogue so that others by speak up also.
Okay. I hope you receive a lot.

[Adiel batKelev]

hey since you are here chokmah, can you tell me since Israel is refered to as a woman throughout scripture (the bible) as a woman (and since that is what God is doing with the ten commandments and covanents making a marriage contract with the people) why then in this passage it uses the masculine usage for his servant?because the "he" is Messiah, who humbled himself and became a servant

[talmidim]

because the "he" is Messiah, who humbled himself and became a servantThat is about as well as it can be said, :thumbsup: .

[Shy21]

hey since you are here chokmah, can you tell me since Israel is refered to as a woman throughout scripture (the bible) as a woman (and since that is what God is doing with the ten commandments and covanents making a marriage contract with the people) why then in this passage it uses the masculine usage for his servant?

what about:

Exodus 4:22:
22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the L-RD says: Israel is my firstborn son.'

[dvd_holc]

because the "he" is Messiah, who humbled himself and became a servant

I believe this. I came here to find something to say to him to believe in a Messiah and Jesus was the one in defense of this passage.

[dvd_holc]

what about:

Exodus 4:22:
22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the L-RD says: Israel is my firstborn son.'

Every good quote. It makes me search out for the answer. I believe though it was God who spoke my feeling is that God was targeting his audience effectively. Isreal to God was the bride. Isreal to the nations was the most precious people and the image of the time would be a firstborn son to a father.