Is CF Bad For One's Spiritual Health?

[Tangnefedd]

I am an old forum hack and know what to expect from the forums on which I post. However, when coming on CF I do find that the certainty of rightness and judgemental clap trap is almost beyond belief!

I freely admit to being a very liberal Christian who does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I am pursuing a spiritual quest and see where it takes me. The responses I get to my posts are rarely anything less than condemnatory. Usually it is like water off a duck's back, but sometimes I get annoyed and think that if God is really as bad as some fundies portray him, then I want to punch him straight in the mouth!:mad: Fortunately I don't take that view of him.

However, others could be on a spiritual quest too, and when the sky falls on them with people telling them what to believe in thunderous tones, they might not be so robust as me and kick it all into touch completely.

Don't treat me with kid gloves I know what I am getting into when I post here, but others might be more sensitive!

[Lynn73]

If you're on a spiritual quest and don't accept the authority of the Bible, then your quest may take you in the wrong direction. The Holy Spirit isn't the only spirit out there and the others are interested in deceiving and destroying you. If you count on your feelings or experiences to be your authority, you're standing on shifting sand. If you don't like the Bible's "thus saith the Lord" then I'm sure the devil and his demons will be thoroughly delighted to be able to lead you down any number of wrong paths as long as they can keep you from placing any permanent and final authority in God's word. I don't mean this to be a debate but felt I should say something. All that's left is to pray.

And, as for the OP, yes I'm sure CF could be bad for some people's spiritual health, especially the baby Christian and those not close to the Lord and firmly rooted in His word, the Bible.

[Tangnefedd]

Somehow the devil and his demons, if I believe they existed, are preferable to some of the extreme fundamentalist stuff we get on this site:D

[lismore]

Somehow the devil and his demons, if I believe they existed, are preferable to some of the extreme fundamentalist stuff we get on this site:D

If you'd ever met a demon possessed person you would not talk nonsense like this:scratch:

I agree with Lynn above. if you're on a spiritual quest that takes you away from the Lord then you're veering towards the only other spiritual camp-the demonic.

Lismore:)

[discernomatic]

Hi Tangnefedd, :wave:

Seems I know you from somewhere....thought you were Anglican...(wink). Hmmm, since no one is perfect, including Christians and the sub-category fundies, then no one can accurately represent God as it should be done. I did run into someone here who made himself a general pest in a number of threads, called me a witch, a feminist and other things...(even though I am more conservative than you are) maybe you ran into the same person. §$%& happens when you are on a public forum. In general I don't think that frequenting CF is bad for one's spiritual health, you just have to accept that there are Christians at the other end of the spectrum, too. It seems to me that the farther right or left you go the harder it becomes discussing religious issues rationally. One or both parties get caught in circular reasoning. The nature of American fundamentalism may complicate matters, too, there seems to be a lot of US fundies in this forum, or maybe they speak the loudest.

[Tangnefedd]

I don't believe there are such things as demons as physical entities, is there one in captivity? I agree we might have demons in our own minds, but that is different.

I can't understand why seemingly intelligent peiople can suspend logic enough to believe in something that the ancients used to explain mental illness as they knew no better. I believe that Jesus was a man of his time, whilst on earth, and did not have anymore knowledge of such things either!

[SuzQ]

I don't believe there are such things as demons as physical entities, is there one in captivity? I agree we might have demons in our own minds, but that is different.

I can't understand why seemingly intelligent peiople can suspend logic enough to believe in something that the ancients used to explain mental illness as they knew no better. I believe that Jesus was a man of his time, whilst on earth, and did not have anymore knowledge of such things either!

See for yourself what Jesus knew about the matter: Mark 1:23-34

Why, oh why would the Bible constantly tell us to take up God's word as a weapon against Satan & his demons? They are not a "metaphor". Satan would LOVE for you to believe he (or his demons) don't exist. Demons are very real, and not just "mental illness". Some might say "mental illness" is could very well be the EFFECT of demonic possession, which stems from a lack of God in one's life.

I suppose your logic makes sense, since you've mentioned in numerous posts & threads that you do not study the Bible, as it's "unneccessary". As far as mental illness being caused by the "physical" alone? One of the most distinguished of psychiatrists, Dr. Carl Jung, says on page 264 of his book, Modern Man in Search of a Soul, 'I have treated many hundreds of patients. Among all my patients over thirty-five, there has not been one whose problem was not that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost that which the living religions of every age have given to their followers, and none of them has been really healed who did not regain his religious outlook'. "

:amen:

[Tangnefedd]

The last books in the Bible were written about 2000 years ago, they knew no better. We have science on our side and in time that will explain what is still inexplicable.

I live in one of the most haunted houses in the UK where the range of phenomena we experience is incredible. you name it we have it. Writing and carvings on the walls, which come and go, apparitions, footsteps, voices, the transportation of very heavy objects including a tombstone, images on photos that weren't there when the photos were taken and much, much more! Of course the usual suspects like to say the place is possessed by demons, but the house has a lovely atmosphere and we wouldn't wish to live anywhere else. We firmly believe that one day science will come up with an explanation for this kind of activity, an energy sourse maybe. What we take for granted nowadays would have been thought supernatural a couple of hundred years ago. Electricity, microwaves, TV, telephones etc.

[SUNSTONE]

I am an old forum hack and know what to expect from the forums on which I post. However, when coming on CF I do find that the certainty of rightness and judgemental clap trap is almost beyond belief!


Unbelievers are the most judgemental people on the planet.
They go around judging everyone, including and especially God.

[pobe]

I don't believe there are such things as demons as physical entities, is there one in captivity? I agree we might have demons in our own minds, but that is different.

I don't really like trying to express myself throught short pieces of text in a foreing language... I hope I don't come across as a "crazy fundie", I do consider myself quite liberal, I guess... But I just have to ask...

Do you believe in God as an entity? Or just as something in your mind? Also, perhaps we're now using the term "mental illness" to explain something that actually is demonic possession... ;-)

[Tangnefedd]

I think God is within us not out there, but I could be wrong on that. I think we know enough about the mind to know that mental illness is not demon possession!

[SuzQ]

I think God is within us not out there, but I could be wrong on that. I think we know enough about the mind to know that mental illness is not demon possession!

No, of course not all mental illness and/or chemical imbalances are demon possession....but some definitely are. How else do you explain a manic depressive (supposedly "chemical") that successfully no longer takes medication & soley relies on prayer & the teachings of Christ? One can argue that the mind is powerful enough to "heal" the body, but then we wouldn't even need religion in that case. See what I mean?

My own son has struggled with ADD for years. We've adjusted his diet, got him to join cross country running for exercise, had him go through counseling (both professional and Christian counseling), plus I've layed awake at night praying for him to not have to take medication. He started the school year without it & he's done horribly! :( Obviously God didn't "heal" him in that sense, he needs medication physically to help him focus, & his ADD is not caused by Satan. My son loves Jesus with all his heart (he accepted Christ on his own at a summer camp a few years ago :) ), loves Bible Study, & wants to be a Christian Youth Counselor when he's old enough.

Look, I love the fact that you question, but you do seem awfully angry & defensive in several posts. When you post such "in-your-face" threads, you're bound to stir up a "hornet's nest" among those who DO rely on Christ. He's not just a "crutch" to some of us, He's an entire body cast! :thumbsup: LOL! While you are concerned of how some of us come across to those seeking, we are worried about your views to them as well. I think we agree that neither of us want to lead someone away from God.

Just know that most of us who who don't share your view aren't just trying to make you feel bad or judge you. We care - even if some of us have a silly way of showing it. I used to think exactly like you do & that's probably why I personally like you so much, sister! :hug: Like I said on another thread to you, your heart is obviously "tugging", the Holy Spirit is at work within you (otherwise you could care less about what this forum). The best thing to do is to meditate, while abandoning all of "man's" stupid views, thoughts & reasoning, and just follow your heart to where it leads you. Don't be bothered about what others tell you on a website - let Christ Himself tell you. When He does, get ready for a miracle! It's awesome! :)

[Entertaining_Angels]

Just speaking for myself, I'm not on this site to win the souls on this site to Christ. I'm here to learn. In fact, I was just in prayer over a matter on this site recently and was very much reminded of that. I already know that God is going to take what I learn and make a ministry out of it. I don't know when that is going to happen but I know it is. So, when I'm on a thread and disagree, I'm not really trying to change minds. I am really working on learning more and sometimes those threads hone my 'skills' so to speak. Other times they cause me to really dig into my Bible and pray about what somebody has said. And, still other times, God shows me a Truth I never saw before in what somebody wrote.

Honestly, I don't really think of this as a 'Christian' site per se because I've run into far too many people who place little to no importance on the Word of God. I do worry about deception on the site but if somebody is truly seeking God's Truth, it will be revealed.

God bless.

[deskjockey]

Hey just aheads up here, this Tangnefed is only here to rile you up and create discontent. I suspect it's purely for her amusement, don't worry about it to much and take it all with a grain of salt. Any and all questions or lack there of, statements, should be run thru a christian litmus here. She defines herself as a Christian with out believing in Jesus as Gods son, angels or demons. Just a warning, ok I'm out.

[Entertaining_Angels]

That's funny...I so often do not look at the icons and thought the original poster was a male.

I don't think many people are riled up by her. I'm certainly not. And, I don't think she or anybody else should be riled us by anything anybody else posts here. This is only a website. Everything you read here ought to be taken with a grain of salt. True, there may be a lot of anger in some of these posts but those posts are easily glossed over.

God bless.

[twistedsketch]

Look at it from my perspective. Believing unbiblical lies plunged me into a deep depression and I would argue that demons were tormenting me. But the truth has set me free. If it's not Biblical, it has the potential to be death to me or others like the lies I used to believe. So I will hammer it with all the truth at my disposal.

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." - John 10:10

[Lynn73]

Hey just aheads up here, this Tangnefed is only here to rile you up and create discontent. I suspect it's purely for her amusement, don't worry about it to much and take it all with a grain of salt. Any and all questions or lack there of, statements, should be run thru a christian litmus here. She defines herself as a Christian with out believing in Jesus as Gods son, angels or demons. Just a warning, ok I'm out.

I can't say what I feel led to say because we aren't allowed to question someone's salvation. Just have to ask yourself, does God's word consider this person a Christian if she doesn't beleive God's word or believe and Christ. I think we know the answer.

[Lynn73]

I don't believe there are such things as demons as physical entities, is there one in captivity? I agree we might have demons in our own minds, but that is different.

I can't understand why seemingly intelligent peiople can suspend logic enough to believe in something that the ancients used to explain mental illness as they knew no better. I believe that Jesus was a man of his time, whilst on earth, and did not have anymore knowledge of such things either!

Excuse me, but you have a Christian icon and yet you post that you don't thing Jesus had any more knowledge about demons than anyone else while he was here on earth? You are mistaken. He addressed them He cast them out. Jesus was God in the flesh, not just a mere man. It's obvious to me that to you the Bible is just some old book a bunch of ignorant people wrote. It is not, it's God's word and totally accurate and if you don't believe it, how can you call yourself Christian. It's totally baffling to me. :scratch: I feel I should have the right to ask this since you are making statements that obviously are not the tenets of Christianity as taught in Scripture so hopefully I won't get in trouble. Is science your god? God invented science and true scientific studies without any preconceived agenda to conform to will always confirn God's word. God knows all about science and I doubt He's intimidated by it.

[twistedsketch]

I think God is within us not out there, but I could be wrong on that.
Pantheism? That's anathema. 100% incompatible with Christianity.

Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit, but God the Father also resides in Heaven.

[moonkissedtiger]

*raises her hand slowly and waves*

Ahhh... to answer what was originally brought up, I CAN see it, 'cause I experienced it myself last night. I'm a new Christian and I read a couple of threads on here (can't remember which ones) and I started getting scared because there was so many different views to one subject and some of the posts are very much like, "This is right, you are wrong... sorry." Sometimes the posts can border on disrespectful but there ARE a lot of posts that are perfectly fine. The opinions are stated well, and non-judgemental of anyone with a dissenting view. If I had a view/interpretation of a scripture that was different from somene else, I would become scared that I was doing things all wrong.

Do I think this forum is bad for one's spiritual health? It can be for SOME people. For me? I don't think so, because once I got scared I talked to someone about it and worked things out and I'm back on track. But some people may be turned off or scared by the hardcore religious folks on here (on both ends), because when you believe what you believe you want someone else to see that you are right.

Ok! I am rambling I know! I think in the end, a person should go to God about whether or not this forum is a good place for them to be. If a person is noticing that it is hindering there relationship with God for whatever reason, and they pray about it and still have a problem with it, then they should probably not go here.

It can be either way. This can be a GREAT place for fellowship, debate, and spiritual growth, or it can be a place where it's nothing but arguments, fears, and hinderance. Some people are more fragile or sensitive then others. I think it comes down to knowing yourself, praying to God about it, and doing what is best for YOU. Whether it be continuing to post here or leaving this forum.

Ok, trying to figure out WHY I'm even talking about this! Hahaha. Oh goodness. :doh:

[SuzQ]

*raises her hand slowly and waves*

Ahhh... to answer what was originally brought up, I CAN see it, 'cause I experienced it myself last night. I'm a new Christian and I read a couple of threads on here (can't remember which ones) and I started getting scared because there was so many different views to one subject and some of the posts are very much like, "This is right, you are wrong... sorry." Sometimes the posts can border on disrespectful but there ARE a lot of posts that are perfectly fine. The opinions are stated well, and non-judgemental of anyone with a dissenting view. If I had a view/interpretation of a scripture that was different from somene else, I would become scared that I was doing things all wrong.

Do I think this forum is bad for one's spiritual health? It can be for SOME people. For me? I don't think so, because once I got scared I talked to someone about it and worked things out and I'm back on track. But some people may be turned off or scared by the hardcore religious folks on here (on both ends), because when you believe what you believe you want someone else to see that you are right.

Ok! I am rambling I know! I think in the end, a person should go to God about whether or not this forum is a good place for them to be. If a person is noticing that it is hindering there relationship with God for whatever reason, and they pray about it and still have a problem with it, then they should probably not go here.

It can be either way. This can be a GREAT place for fellowship, debate, and spiritual growth, or it can be a place where it's nothing but arguments, fears, and hinderance. Some people are more fragile or sensitive then others. I think it comes down to knowing yourself, praying to God about it, and doing what is best for YOU. Whether it be continuing to post here or leaving this forum.

Ok, trying to figure out WHY I'm even talking about this! Hahaha. Oh goodness. :doh:

You're so cute! And, more importantly, you are absolutely right. Welcome, newbie to Christ & newbie to Christian Forum!! :hug: I've been a Christian follower for only 5 years, so I'm still sort of a newbie myself.

The internet should not be the only place one goes for answers. It can be a great place of fellowship, especially those who live in rural areas & don't have a church home yet. It also can lead some "astray". Whether we read the Bible, look on the internet, go to church, listen to evangelists, whatever - we must always pray for "discernment" & allow the Holy Spirit to lead & speak within us. I used to think my own "random thoughts" were the Holy Spirit. I got confused whether a "voice" in my head was my own or God. :confused: When the Lord speaks to you, believe me, you'll know.

One of my most recent examples was asking God to reveal what's holding me back, as I felt myself slipping away from Him. When we first become Christian followers, we go through that "honeymoon" period - such peace, joy, & love overflow us. Then, comes the "desert" for some reason :( (God's love through testing, I later found out). When I cleared my head in church one morning & asked Him to reveal what was separating the two of us, a voice, CLEARLY not my own "silently" spoke to me & said one word: Unfaithfulness. :bow: It was a "jolt" to have that voice speak!! I sat in awe for about 5 minutes taking in the fact that God just spoke to me. Even now my eyes tear up at the thought He would bother with me at ALL. I've had only a handful of other times this has happened, but when it does, LOOK OUT!

Definitely, we must seek His will in any matter, big or small. When the Holy Spirit is "nudging", don't ignore it.

[Tangnefedd]

Your are all entitled to your view of God, just as I am entitled to mine. But that is all it is, a view of God, it doesn't mean any of us have got it right!

[Entertaining_Angels]

Somebody on the site sent me a poem they found online and PM'd it to me. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this but I think this is a worthwhile read:

The Souls We Kill
Had he and I but met, I say,
In some old church or pew,
We should have sat us down to pray
As Christian brothers do!

But with our anonymity,
Remote in cyberspace,
I railed at him as he at me,
And put him in his place.

I attacked because --
Because he was my foe,
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

He thought he'd surf, perhaps,
Off-hand like -- just as I --
He had some time -- a cherished lapse --
No other reason why.

How dangerous our words can be!
You wound a soul in pride,
Failing at that time to see,
T'was him for whom Christ died."

[Lynn73]

Your are all entitled to your view of God, just as I am entitled to mine. But that is all it is, a view of God, it doesn't mean any of us have got it right!

The Bible has it right because it's God's word and I believe it.

[pobe]

Just speaking for myself, I'm not on this site to win the souls on this site to Christ. I'm here to learn.

Amen to that!

This is exactly the perspective / point of view I try to keep through life... That I think I know "sort of" what's going on, but I try to ask God for guidance (oh, how insecure I feel about words and spelling when writing english... I can just hope and pray that I manage to convey what I actually mean... :-P ).

God bless!

[Entertaining_Angels]

Amen to that!

This is exactly the perspective / point of view I try to keep through life... That I think I know "sort of" what's going on, but I try to ask God for guidance (oh, how insecure I feel about words and spelling when writing english... I can just hope and pray that I manage to convey what I actually mean... :-P ).

God bless!

Believe me, I would love it if I knew everybody I met would one day be in Heaven but God has really shown me, we just plant seeds. We cannot argue people into a relationship with God. We cannot win people to God. God wins people to God and He can use even me to do that which is pretty amazing in itself.

God bless you much.

[jasperbound]

I am an old forum hack and know what to expect from the forums on which I post. However, when coming on CF I do find that the certainty of rightness and judgemental clap trap is almost beyond belief!

I freely admit to being a very liberal Christian who does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I am pursuing a spiritual quest and see where it takes me. The responses I get to my posts are rarely anything less than condemnatory. Usually it is like water off a duck's back, but sometimes I get annoyed and think that if God is really as bad as some fundies portray him, then I want to punch him straight in the mouth!:mad: Fortunately I don't take that view of him.

However, others could be on a spiritual quest too, and when the sky falls on them with people telling them what to believe in thunderous tones, they might not be so robust as me and kick it all into touch completely.

Don't treat me with kid gloves I know what I am getting into when I post here, but others might be more sensitive!

I think it's great. It teaches me to tolerate other Christians who I do not get along with as well.
Also, I've seen a few of your posts. You seem rather judgmental and quick to look down upon less liberal Christians. Why should people treat you better than you treat them?

[Entertaining_Angels]

I Also, I've seen a few of your posts. You seem rather judgmental and quick to look down upon less liberal Christians. Why should people treat you better than you treat them?

I'll take a stab at this one :)

Could it be because as Christians we are told:

Matthew 5

Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-23278h)] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-23279i)] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I'm not calling the original poster my enemy because I don't know the person at all and have no beef with this person but if we are to love our enemies, why wouldn't we do the same for our non-enemies.

Let's love our neighbors even if they don't love us.

God bless.

[Vaudois]

I am an old forum hack and know what to expect from the forums on which I post. However, when coming on CF I do find that the certainty of rightness and judgemental clap trap is almost beyond belief!

I freely admit to being a very liberal Christian who does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I am pursuing a spiritual quest and see where it takes me. The responses I get to my posts are rarely anything less than condemnatory. Usually it is like water off a duck's back, but sometimes I get annoyed and think that if God is really as bad as some fundies portray him, then I want to punch him straight in the mouth!:mad: Fortunately I don't take that view of him.

However, others could be on a spiritual quest too, and when the sky falls on them with people telling them what to believe in thunderous tones, they might not be so robust as me and kick it all into touch completely.

Don't treat me with kid gloves I know what I am getting into when I post here, but others might be more sensitive!

Well, Tangy (My Danish/Dutch/German spelling is woefully slack) I have to give you a stick of Blackpool rock (stick candy from a resort town, for you Yanks) for even having the guts to make your statement. Pretty radical for an Englishwoman, from my experience.

I was once in the same state of mind as you (will in my own version, naturally) and no amount of words from any Fundy made a dent on me either. Been there; done that; got the T-shirt hanging between my "Mind the Gap" and my Screaming Lord Sutch and the Savages press pass. Well in my mind anyway!

It took way more than opinions (be they ever so sweet and even biblical) to get me where I am with the Almighty. I'll be glad to talk with you, but don't expect fuzzy platitudes and Sunday School response, OK?

[Tangnefedd]

I am British NOT English! I wasn't born in the UK!

[Forest]

Your are all entitled to your view of God, just as I am entitled to mine. But that is all it is, a view of God, it doesn't mean any of us have got it right!

I am curious where your view of God comes from if not the Bible?

[Tangnefedd]

The Bible isn't the only source of wisdom. Experience is a good teacher. I have had 55 years on this earth so know one or two things!

[jasperbound]

I'll take a stab at this one :)

Could it be because as Christians we are told:

[b]
I'm not calling the original poster my enemy because I don't know the person at all and have no beef with this person but if we are to love our enemies, why wouldn't we do the same for our non-enemies.

Let's love our neighbors even if they don't love us.

God bless.

I agree, and if the OP calls herself a Christian, then she has as much of an obligation to do that as any "fundy" does, and because she doesn't, she's in the same camp as the fundies she criticizes. I've noticed that about liberal Christians and fundies though: they're closer than they think.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I agree, and if the OP calls herself a Christian, then she has as much of an obligation to do that as any "fundy" does, and because she doesn't, she's in the same camp as the fundies she criticizes. I've noticed that about liberal Christians and fundies though: they're closer than they think.

Amen to that. I agree and I've actually been in both those camps at one time or another in my life. Now I am just in Jesus' camp.

[Latreia]

The Bible isn't the only source of wisdom. Experience is a good teacher. I have had 55 years on this earth so know one or two things!

Too many posters on message boards today simply refuse to believe in the value of years of life experiences. Even many liberals, especially the college grads, have been instructed by their professors: only youth have all the right answers, refuse and disrespect any one else's opinions and beliefs if they won't agree that you are right all the time, challenge every thought, religion, and authority you encounter, above all, prove your superiority with arrogance and rudeness.

I have just had a taste of Charismatic ministry and love. I made it clear how I felt about Moonie-type accosting of ordinary citizens in public, specifically those sick people going in and out of hospitals. I think that is one the reasons public places have security guards. Naturally, I was attacked, insulted, and wiped out.

Fundies and atheists locked in mortal combat in 150 or more posts threads are not representing their rights as to what they think, but in who can argue the most effectively, make points, and prove the other side is wrong.

For a forum dedicated to Christian unity, CF has become divisive and misrepresentations of individuals have not and cannot be regulated. In short, there is no sanctuary here for all Christians, cronyism and cliques, special interest groups and political agendas are de rigor.

[Vaudois]

Not English, eh, Tangy? Just British. My foopah!
I am such a dolt. I should have known by all the subtle hints.
So which dol in Wales ya hale from?
(PS...Love that green tube in your photo...looks like fun!)

[jasperbound]

Too many posters on message boards today simply refuse to believe in the value of years of life experiences.

I'm one of those persons. Personal experience is very subjective and self-centered, and some people's personal experiences with Christianity lead them away from Christ (and some people's personal experiences lead them to believe that they are God), and that is what causes the schisms.

I'm into trying to see the world through more objective lenses, which is why I value the Bible over my own point-of-view. Otherwise, I'd probably be a solipsist.

[Vaudois]

Yeah, you're so right, Jasperbound. Greyhairs don't equate with truth and wisdom. Look how long the "flat earth" idea was venerated. Or how commonly accepted the ancient business of slavery was.
It's not experiences that count, but contact with the Creator and following His wisdom....at whatever age.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Is CF Bad For One's Spiritual Health?
I am an old forum hack and know what to expect from the forums on which I post. However, when coming on CF I do find that the certainty of rightness and judgemental clap trap is almost beyond belief!

I freely admit to being a very liberal Christian who does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible. I am pursuing a spiritual quest and see where it takes me. The responses I get to my posts are rarely anything less than condemnatory. Usually it is like water off a duck's back, but sometimes I get annoyed and think that if God is really as bad as some fundies portray him, then I want to punch him straight in the mouth!:mad: Fortunately I don't take that view of him.

However, others could be on a spiritual quest too, and when the sky falls on them with people telling them what to believe in thunderous tones, they might not be so robust as me and kick it all into touch completely.

Don't treat me with kid gloves I know what I am getting into when I post here, but others might be more sensitive!Sure, it can be. At times, it's been bad for mine. But, that is dependent on where I am spiritually on that day. Most days, I can't handle the hypocritical actions of "Christians" in some of the forums here. And it isn't just the bad behavior that is hard for me. It's the hypocricy of it coming from people using the title "Christian" while not embodying any aspect of observing Christian doctrine.

Arrogance is what makes someone harang you for not agreeing with them. Arrogance is something God abhores. Arrogance is the precursor of a fall. If someone is not humble, they will be humbled. That's just how it works. So, when someone arrogantly evil speaks to you, step out of their way. Because God will deal with their ungodliness and their spiritual weakness.

And yes, even knowing this, it's still hard to deal with. What was it Ghandi once said? I like your Christ. But your Christians are so unlike your Christ? That's an embarrassing testimony.

[Vaudois]

Yeah...hypocrisy stinks.
But how insane to let them keep you from the Fountain of Life. It's easy to claim to be a christian (especially in the West); but it's a narrow way and strait gate to actually BE a Christian, His way.
It's rather petty, however, to not go to a library because the librarians are ugly and the janitor is asleep.

PS: All religions/and anti-religions have their share of bigotry, shams and sanctimoniousness. It's a human thing, not a cornered market among professedly christian people.

You should hear the Muslims here wail about hypocrites among themselves.

[Latreia]

Yeah, you're so right, Jasperbound. Greyhairs don't equate with truth and wisdom. Look how long the "flat earth" idea was venerated. Or how commonly accepted the ancient business of slavery was.
It's not experiences that count, but contact with the Creator and following His wisdom....at whatever age.


That must limit your sources of information. Books written by older persons who condense their studies and information gathered over the years can't possibly amount to a hill of beans.

Amazing beyond belief that you should use "flat earth" idea and the "ancient business of slavery" to stigmatize "greyhairs". It is very difficult to reconcile your occupation of ministry and "publishing of Christian books" with this display of indifference to an important segment of humanity.

Perhaps it would vastly improve society if people were routinely euthanized at...what age?

[Latreia]

Yeah...hypocracy stinks.
But how insane to let them keep you from the Fountain of Life.
It's rather petty, however, to not go to a library because the librarians are ugly and the janitor is asleep.



May I verify that you make these statements quite seriously, and in complete sincerity?

[Lynn73]

I'm one of those persons. Personal experience is very subjective and self-centered, and some people's personal experiences with Christianity lead them away from Christ (and some people's personal experiences lead them to believe that they are God), and that is what causes the schisms.

I'm into trying to see the world through more objective lenses, which is why I value the Bible over my own point-of-view. Otherwise, I'd probably be a solipsist.

I'm glad you realize that. Experiences can deceive us. Many people who've had near death experiences who aren't even Christians, now believe that everyone is going to a nice, blissful, happy place where no one is judged and everyone is accepted regardless. Well, guess what? That isn't what the Bible teaches. I wouldn't want to base my eternal destiny on an experience, I'd much rather trust God's word.

[Vaudois]

I stigmatize no one, Latreia. I am old, and know that years of experience mean zip without the Wisdom only available from God, available to the reborn.
As a re-publisher, I do not look at someone's age, degrees or position in the world or any church in order to ascertain light. I look for the breath of Christ, in whatever vessel.

Old theories are not always correct; hence the flat earth/slavery points I made.

Oh: and yes. My "library" illustration can be just as valid if it is ugly mechanics and sleeping grease-monkeys at the garage.

The upshot is: Don't let the slack workers rob you of salvation.

[Latreia]

If true, it would be amazing if those who have never experienced the following can comprehend as much about those experiences as people who did have them:

Being pregnant and having a baby.

Watching friends and relatives you have had for 20 or 30 years grow disabled and die.

Seeing your children grow from toddlers to being married and having your grandchildren and watching them enjoy life and grow.

Learning that you have cancer, trying to find a way to live with that knowledge, submitting yourself to chemotherapy, while watching others die from cancer. Suffering every bad effect of chemotherapy and managing to survive, but not knowing for how long. This could take several years.

Being parents of an adult man or woman who has been victimized, assaulted, raped, and brutally murdered. Waiting to find out what has happened to your child when the body has not been found.

Losing your ability to walk, talk, move some part or any part of your body, have tubes inserted in various orifices of your body and endure that day after endless day.

Suffering chronic mental and/or physical pain and weakness for 10, 20, 30 years.

Loving and raising your children until they show you contempt, indifference and move far away from your love for them.

Being unable to have a baby for any reason, all of your life.

Enduring every kind of disappointment, heartbreak, defeat, loneliness, despair, confusion, hard work, hateful bosses and co-workers from whom you cannot escape in jobs you have stayed with for 25 years or so for the sake of trying to meet the expenses of your family.

Losing a beloved husband or wife of many anniversaries to Alzheimer's, cancer, strokes, diseases, and then facing the empty years alone with only memories and anguish.

Do you really think that God views these experiences of aging and life experiences with indifference?

[Latreia]

I stigmatize no one, Latreia. I am old, and know that years of experience mean zip without the Wisdom only available from God, available to the reborn.
As a re-publisher, I do not look at someone's age, degrees or position in the world or any church in order to ascertain light. I look for the breath of Christ, in whatever vessel.

Old theories are not always correct; hence the flat earth/slavery points I made.

Oh: and yes. My "library" illustration can be just as valid if it is ugly mechanics and sleeping grease-monkeys at the garage.

The upshot is: Don't let the slack workers rob you of salvation.

Yeah, you're so right, Jasperbound. Greyhairs don't equate with truth and wisdom. Look how long the "flat earth" idea was venerated. Or how commonly accepted the ancient business of slavery was.
It's not experiences that count, but contact with the Creator and following His wisdom....at whatever age.

You message has not remained the same.

[Vaudois]

It's how you react to these things, L., not that you've had them
If none of these things have brought to a soul a peaceful, saving trust in the Creator, a kind and thankful spirit, than it is a waste.

But if ONE such disaster happened to a 14 year and they are eternally transformed into His likeness, fit for loving and service to Christ, collecting more pain is a waste.

It's the transformation that counts, not the track-record's length.

[Latreia]

Too many posters on message boards today simply refuse to believe in the value of years of life experiences. .

I'm one of those persons. Personal experience is very subjective and self-centered, and some people's personal experiences with Christianity lead them away from Christ (and some people's personal experiences lead them to believe that they are God), and that is what causes the schisms.

I'm into trying to see the world through more objective lenses, which is why I value the Bible over my own point-of-view. Otherwise, I'd probably be a solipsist.


Could this also be so subjective a post that it represents one who still sees only what he wishes to see?


"Admitting my mistakes costs me nothing, denying the truth costs me everything."

[Latreia]

It's how you react to these things, L., not that you've had them
If none of these things have brought to a soul a peaceful, saving trust in the Creator, a kind and thankful spirit, than it is a waste.

But if ONE such disaster happened to a 14 year and they are eternally transformed into His likeness, fit for loving and service to Christ, collecting more pain is a waste.

It's the transformation that counts, not the track-record's length.


Do you represent God to all the world?

[Vaudois]

Do you represent God to all the world?

You'll have to ask God that, not the world or yourself. I personally will find out at the Judgement whether I have or allowed my own ways to foul up His reflection, or not.

But stick around: read my posts and see for yourself if there is the fruits of the Holy Spirit or the wax-fruit of man.

[jasperbound]

Could this also be so subjective a post that it represents one who still sees only what he wishes to see?


"Admitting my mistakes costs me nothing, denying the truth costs me everything."

No. Among my faults, only seeing what I want to see is not among them. I do not pick and choose what to believe from the Bible, and consequently, I do things that I acknowledge are sin, whereas others simply say: "This is part of the Bible I disagree with is a mistranslation," or "The Bible was written by ignorant and superstitious men so this verse I dislike I can disregard," or "God told me that the way I see things is the right way and the Bible is wrong in this case." I even had to change some attitudes because of it.

Unless I wrote the Bible, one cannot say that I'm being subjective by using God's revelation to the world as my standard. Unlike basing one's beliefs on personal experience, it's not based on just what I see.

"Denying the truth costs me everything, but manipulating the truth so that it conforms to what I want costs only my integrity."

[Reazzurro90]

Don't believe that the heart is there for you and that it will lead you to truth.

"The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)


You may want to hold onto your Bible. Just reject all the "feel good" and "feeling" methods...The heart is deceitful...

[Vaudois]

Love that last quote, Jasperbound!

[Latreia]

No. Among my faults, only seeing what I want to see is not among them. I do not pick and choose what to believe from the Bible, and consequently, I do things that I acknowledge are sin, whereas others simply say: "This is part of the Bible I disagree with is a mistranslation," or "The Bible was written by ignorant and superstitious men so this verse I dislike I can disregard," or "God told me that the way I see things is the right way and the Bible is wrong in this case." I even had to change some attitudes because of it.

Unless I wrote the Bible, one cannot say that I'm being subjective by using God's revelation to the world as my standard. Unlike basing one's beliefs on personal experience, it's not based on just what I see.

"Denying the truth costs me everything, but manipulating the truth so that it conforms to what I want costs only my integrity."

How sad and vain.

[Latreia]

Love that last quote, Jasperbound!


Ironic, isn't it, since he immediately rewrote it to manipulate the words to his own advantage?

[jasperbound]

How sad and vain.

What's sad and vain about preferring the Bible, a set of books that have proven themselves reliable, to self-centered personal experience?

[jasperbound]

Ironic, isn't it, since he immediately rewrote it to manipulate the words to his own advantage?

Actually, I didn't rewrite the quote. I made my own in response to it. :)

To be fair though, the original quote does work to my advantage as well. After all... I'm not the one defining truth with the self at the center.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

That must limit your sources of information. Books written by older persons who condense their studies and information gathered over the years can't possibly amount to a hill of beans.

Amazing beyond belief that you should use "flat earth" idea and the "ancient business of slavery" to stigmatize "greyhairs". It is very difficult to reconcile your occupation of ministry and "publishing of Christian books" with this display of indifference to an important segment of humanity.

Perhaps it would vastly improve society if people were routinely euthanized at...what age?

:D While I can appreciate your angst. I couldn't help but laugh when I read this retort. :thumbsup: You are too funny.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I have to surmise that whenever one group of people causes another group of people feel "less than", it hurts. And through that hurt, words can be uncharitable.

If you're fortunate, you may not feel threatened by either stage of life. They are both valuable. And they are both part of the same journey.

It is not a slam against young people that age and experience lend to wisdom. It is the natural effect time and experience has on every person. It is not a prideful statement by older people, to make the youngers feel "less than".

The Bible says that Christians are known by their charity. Or love if you use a different version of the Bible than I do. If we can't show charity in the way we respect each other here on this thread, then the question of the OP "Is CF Bad For One's Siritual Health?" would undoubtedly have to be Yes.

Respect goes both ways. And maybe I'm a sap, but I believe showing respect, is a form of showing love, Christian love.

Anyway...

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I'm going to add this, in what I see has become a very hostily, uncharitable environment. And hope that I can duck out of the way before anyone's anger turns on me. I hope that those who have ears, will hear.

It is only arrogance that would make a person say that they "know the truth" about the Bible, or God's word...and still be alive.

The wise know that they don't "know" anything...no matter how much they study, no matter how strong their prayer life, no matter how much they go to church, and no matter how much more they know than everyone else around them. Understanding deapens with time. But, even time does not lend itself to full understanding in this life time. It is a quest that does not have a finite point in this incarnation. When you die, you see all things clearly. All questions are answered. And you know.

Looking through a glass darkly?

Pride is not a fruit of the spirit.

[Vaudois]

You message has not remained the same.

Please show my contridiction.

I will restate: Age does not automatically bring God's wisdom with it. Many well worn concepts, held for centuries by christian nations and peoples (slavery 0r flat earth) we know to be untrue.

Age must be biblically respected for :
1. It's frailty in body
2. Wisdom from God
3. It's Enduring unselfishness
4. It's record of godly leadership
5. It's resemblence to Christ

and not merely because one has managed to live a certain number of years, a gift from God, after all.

Youth is not to be spurned as the Pharisees rejected Christ in the Temple when He taught them at 12 years old.

[Shannonkish]

Tan, understand where you are coming from with the fundamentalism on this site. :)

[discernomatic]

To get back to the original statement, I think that many here may have misunderstood Tangnefedd. She is what is called a liberal Christian, I think. I consider myself liberal in a few points as well, but remain more at the conservative end of the spectrum. I think (and please correct me here if I am wrong, Tangnefedd) that she feels that the overt fundamentalism and conservativism on this forum are irritating to those that are liberal and/or less fundamentalist, although the forum is open to all that profess to be Christians, no matter what type. Just hanging out in the liberal section may be too confining for some.

I know what Scripture says on this matter concerning the proper beliefs of the Christian, but how does one express this to someone that does not accept the bible or at least part of it as infallible or at least credible? That would be an argument without end.

We cannot judge whether any professing Christian really believes or not based on their worldview or other visible factors, and we cannot look in their hearts to find out what is really there or not there. That is not in our jurisdiction as fellow human beings, and thank goodness for that.

[Kelly]

Tang,

There has been some real wisdom posted in reply here, thank God. Are you open to changing your viewpoint through what others post in replies to your threads - or what's revealed to you in scripture?

[Lynn73]

No. Among my faults, only seeing what I want to see is not among them. I do not pick and choose what to believe from the Bible, and consequently, I do things that I acknowledge are sin, whereas others simply say: "This is part of the Bible I disagree with is a mistranslation," or "The Bible was written by ignorant and superstitious men so this verse I dislike I can disregard," or "God told me that the way I see things is the right way and the Bible is wrong in this case." I even had to change some attitudes because of it.

Unless I wrote the Bible, one cannot say that I'm being subjective by using God's revelation to the world as my standard. Unlike basing one's beliefs on personal experience, it's not based on just what I see.

"Denying the truth costs me everything, but manipulating the truth so that it conforms to what I want costs only my integrity."

Love that quote. People can be as liberal as they choose to be, but the Bible still says exactly what it says and no amount of spinning, twisting, manipulating, or ignoring it is going to change it.

[contriteheart]

I live in one of the most haunted houses in the UK where the range of phenomena we experience is incredible. you name it we have it. Writing and carvings on the walls, which come and go, apparitions, footsteps, voices, the transportation of very heavy objects including a tombstone, images on photos that weren't there when the photos were taken and much, much more! Of course the usual suspects like to say the place is possessed by demons, but the house has a lovely atmosphere and we wouldn't wish to live anywhere else. We firmly believe that one day science will come up with an explanation for this kind of activity, an energy sourse maybe. What we take for granted nowadays would have been thought supernatural a couple of hundred years ago. Electricity, microwaves, TV, telephones etc.

Dear Tangnefedd,

I'm curious about something. You say that you don't believe in demons, and yet you live in a house in which writing is mysteriously appearing on the walls. You credit this later in your post to some kind of an energy source which science has yet to explain, and give examples of microwaves, TV, telephones, etc. to show that such things may be understood at a later date.

What is interesting about the post is that all the technology you mention was all created by intelligent, rational beings. Televisions didn't just appear out of nowhere, nor did telephones or microwaves. So the cause of these things was a sentient being using the laws of nature to create an intelligible message.

In the case of writing, there is some kind of communication going on. This would also presuppose a sentient being whom you cannot see. Even if science were to explain the physics of how the writing is physically getting there, there would still have to be a being as the source of the phenomenon of communication. An energy source alone could not communicate in writing, but only cause unusual physical phenomena.

So what, or should I say who, then, is writing on your walls?

[Vaudois]

Looks like Tangy is busy...

But back to her basic gripe..."Is CF unhealthy, spiritually?"

I suppose it depends on what you want from CF: challenges or fellowship......or both!

However there does seem to be alot of breast-beating and "electronic courage" being displayed by typist tyrants. More here at CF than elsewhere due to the huge numbers of members, perhaps.



Christians should keep in mind that everything you write will be faced in the Judgement.
Spiritualists should be careful that there karma does not run over their dogma!
True; there's clearly some rude religionists and non-religionists here. But I have met some mighty sweet folks too, of all religious convictions.

We can't control how others write, nor should we wish to; but we do have one great tool: the "Ignore" button!

[Shannonkish]

vaduios,

I found your post extremely rude and feel that you should apologize to Tan.

[HoneyDew]

Hmm, I think that has been said before.


No matter what though, I am not staying in a house where writings appear on the wall and whatnot. LOL In the meantime I will move far, far away until science comes up with a rational explanation.

[Vaudois]

Oops...forgot a word....look for the orange "not".

[contriteheart]

For me, today...yes.

I've been tremendously saddened by all the mudslinging, namecalling, and exaggerated accusations that have been flying between two Christian factions over in another part of this forum for the past couple of days.

It has been truly awful. Please join with me in praying that God would bring all of us who name the Name of Christ closer to the unity of the faith, and help us all to truly love one another, and to forgive one another from the heart.

With love in Christ,
Grace

[Kelly]

Grace, don't let it get to you. We'd all act much nicer to each other in person. The anonimity of the `net brings out the pride in people.

What I do is take breaks from certain forums whenever I can't take it anymore. Go into one of the other Christian sections that perhaps you don't normally visit. I have to take breaks from the News & Current Events area because people on both 'sides' can be really nasty and sarcastic with each other.

[SpiritPsalmist]

MOD HAT ON

JUST A REMINDER THAT THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO DEBATE IN THIS FORUM ARE THOSE WHO ARE NON-DENOMINATIONAL. SEE FORUM RULE 2 BELOW

.: Forum Rule 2 :.
Rule No. 2 - No "Trolling"
2.1 You will not do anything on the site that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. This includes, but not is limited to:
a. Deliberately reposting a post, thread, image, Chatbox post or anything else that has been removed by a staff member for a breach of forum rule.
b. Baiting where a member harasses another member to the point where he or she might retaliate in a flame.
c. Brinking where a member deliberately does things to push the boundaries of the forum rules.
2.2 You will not debate in forums that are not part of the “Discussion and Debate”, “Congregation” or “Theology” categories. Debate is defined as to engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
a. The Politics Political Party subforums only allow debate between people supporting the Political Parties - others can only post fellowship and ask questions.
b. The Congregation subforums only allow debate between people belonging to the Congregation - others can only post fellowship and ask questions.
2.3 You will not start threads with topics that are not relevant to the forum topic. Staff reserves the right to move threads to the appropriate forums.
2.4 You will not post replies in threads that are off-topic to the original post. That is considered “thread hijacking” and staff may intervene to bring threads back on-topic.
2.5 You will not start a thread or post a reply directed at another member. Replies must be directed at another member’s post, not the individual. Individual communication should be done via PM. This includes, but is not limited to:
a. Accusing another member in public of breaking a rule (including calling him or her a troll or a sock-puppet). Please report any rule breaches to the staff.
b. Posting in public that you have reported another member.
c. Responding to a post (by telling the poster he or she is breaking a rule) or quoting a post before or after you have reported it.
2.6 You will not stalk and harass other members (including sexual harassment and unwanted attention). This includes deliberately reporting multiple posts of the same member in an attempt to harass the member. This also includes multiple unwanted PMs to a member despite requests to stop.
2.7 You will not enter inaccurate details in your profile to gain access to restricted forums.
2.8 A member may have more than one account on this site but you will not use such accounts to bypass a suspension or ban from the forums. Such accounts will be banned. Any warnings on separate accounts will be counted towards the same user.
a. Banned or suspended members may still use the Formal Appeals Process (See Rule 7.1).
2.9 You will not post in public any private correspondence (including contents of emails, PMs, IMs etc.) between yourself and another CF member without the express permission of that member.
2.10 You will not use the CF Chatbox for anything other than friendly chat and fellowship (in English only). Serious discussion belongs in the forums or in the IRC debate channel.

[Shannonkish]

Thanks Quaffer!