The Burning Question

[SteelDisciple]

From time to time i'll meet non-christians who give me this one question..it's one I can't quite figure out as I have a horrible memory, so remembering scriptures is EXTREMELY difficult. So maybe someone here can help...the question is:

If God is a God of pure, unconditional love...why does he even allow people to suffer in evil, tormenting pain for eternity in hell. God made everything which means he made hell. IS Hell a place of evil, tormenting pain and fire? And yes..God let's people choose where to go by their choices in life. BUT why did He make hell anyway...a place of pure torment if He is a God of love?

Or is it blackness..a place completely devoid of God...where you are there alone and suffer with that seperation?

Please provide scriptural backup with your response.

[RichardT]

God is not only loving but also just.

edit : im sorry I could not be so much help :(

[AshenK]

My favorite response to those kind of questions is simply I don't know.

I believe you can't prove faith, so I usually don't bother trying to prove it, which is what they're wanting. If the Spirit isn't drawing them, then it's the Spirit they're rejecting, not me.

[SteelDisciple]

My favorite response to those kind of questions is simply I don't know.

I believe you can't prove faith, so I usually don't bother trying to prove it, which is what they're wanting. If the Spirit isn't drawing them, then it's the Spirit they're rejecting, not me.

Yes. But if I can get an answer...then I have something more substantial. What if my answering that question Is the point in which they become open to it?
Someone must know this answer....

[SNPete]

Yes. But if I can get an answer...then I have something more substantial. What if my answering that question Is the point in which they become open to it?
Someone must know this answer....
In a way the answer is both simple and complex. The simple side of the issue is that God created all that there is. So God is the boss and gets to make the rules. If God chooses to set up hell as an alternative to spending eternity in heaven then so be it.



God is perfect by definition. Maybe we humans do not understand what true Godly love is about. Maybe love is not about letting everyone in heaven. Why should God force those who are disinterested in God or even hostile towards God into heaven? Kind of a tough love. But consider this. We owe our existence to God. So why not a hell, if that’s how it is. God gets to make the rules. To agree with this concept is to be humble before God.



God’s invitation is for all who want to be with him. With a nod towards the Calvinists I say: truly, it is our choice. God is not cruel. He states the rules of the game and it is up to us to decide if we want to play.



See Isaiah 55:6-11, 45:9-10 and 29:16.

[sk8Joyful]

From time to time i'll meet non-christians who give me this one question:
God made everything which means he made Hell.
If God is a God of pure, unconditional love...why does he even allow people to suffer in evil tormenting pain, for eternity in hell.
And yes. God let's people choose where to go by their choices in life.
IS Hell a place of evil, tormenting pain and fire? BUT why did He make hell anyway...a place of pure torment if He is a God of love?
Or
is it blackness..a place completely devoid of God...where you are there alone and suffer with that seperation?

Please provide scriptural backup with your response.
Excellent question,
(which I myself asked as a young child - and to which I got, more or less, 'non-sense' answers.
Ten years later, noticing mounting evidence in 'sufferers', lead me to present awareness.)
Can you relate to this (over-simplified) diagram:

God=PURElove... ((love-decreasing...fear-increasing)) ...PUREevil=satan

We begin our existence, created of God=PURElove.
Next,from the moment of our mortal-conception - to the moment of our mortal-death, we
cast our lots - via our *choIces* along a continuum: (love-decreasing...fear-increasing),
allowing ouselves being influenced either more by God's love or satan's fear.

Yes: God made *every*-thing which means he made Hell.
and
Yes: God let's people choose where to go by their 'choices' in life. God allows people to suffer 'Physical/Emotional' pains, on earth, for our learning. Some learn in mortality, most do not.

Yes: If God is a God of pure, unconditional love...why does he even allow people to suffer in evil tormenting pain, for eternity in hell (?) -
Well, considering God does not (for the most part) interfere/intervene in 'mortal pains/hell' -
why would God prevent our choIces afterwards. If God did that,
he would cease being God; something God is not about to do, fortunately.

Yes: 'completely devoid of God'...where you are there alone, and suffer with that seperation?... Volumes of evidence suggest, you are right in that.
~~

Us, willingly accepting God's salvation, choose living with Christ in Heaven, eternally.
And
others, willingly buying into satan's various ways, choose living in Hell, eternally.

You asked for scriptures:
1. Isaiah 29:8-24

2. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalm 14:1-5)

3. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23).

4. Isaiah 55:1-13 http://209.35.123.108/Isaiah-55_1-12.htm
~~

Another *spiritually-safe* 'method' of discovery, not in the Bible, is alluded to in a thread here,
where I just posted.

(Sad to say, a few UNbelievers were foolish enough to actually seek-out the attention of satan. Afterwards, they strongly recommend anyone *NOT* pursuing that ).

Yet, a person can use the 'same' method for visiting Jesus' earthly ministry, and thereby CHOOSE becoming a Christian, and live-eternally, in God's presence...:)
Yes, Choose ye, this day, whom ye will serve...:wave:

[RP1000]

Yes this is always difficult to answer
I always start with a definition of Hell as a place separated from God (once and for all)
and I try to point out that only God sees the full picture (he is outside time etc) we can't (we are finite he is infinite) ... so we have no choice but to believe him on some matters (it is physically and mentally impossible for us to know/understand everything)

... so we have a chance now to choose to live with him/have a relationship with him or not to. In other words we get what we choose.
so ...

why does he even allow people to suffer in evil, tormenting pain for eternity in hell

because we/they chose to be separate from God.

[Dispy]

From time to time i'll meet non-christians who give me this one question..it's one I can't quite figure out as I have a horrible memory, so remembering scriptures is EXTREMELY difficult. So maybe someone here can help...the question is:

If God is a God of pure, unconditional love...why does he even allow people to suffer in evil, tormenting pain for eternity in hell. God made everything which means he made hell. IS Hell a place of evil, tormenting pain and fire? And yes..God let's people choose where to go by their choices in life. BUT why did He make hell anyway...a place of pure torment if He is a God of love?

Or is it blackness..a place completely devoid of God...where you are there alone and suffer with that seperation?

Please provide scriptural backup with your response.

According to Matthew 25:41, hell was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. If one goes to hell, it is because of that one's own choosing.

God has given man "free will." A just God would not create some person to spend eternity in hell and others in heaven. It is man that has the sole responsibility as to where he chooses to spend his eternity. As Joshua said in Joshua 24:115 "...choose you this day whom ye will serve,..."

We have such a loving God that He sent His only Son to pay for all the sins of the world. That means, that every sin that has been committed, and will commit, since Adam's fall has already been paid for.

The price of that God paid for our sins was the giving of His only Son to die on the Cross of Calvary. Every price of every sin that has been committed, and every sin that has yet to be committeed, is already paid for. Therefore, salvation is a "free gift" of God to all those that believe. All one has to do to receive that "free gift" is put their faith and trust in the Cross work (death, burial and ressurrection) of Christ (1Cor.15:1-5).

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[SteelDisciple]

In a way the answer is both simple and complex. The simple side of the issue is that God created all that there is. So God is the boss and gets to make the rules. If God chooses to set up hell as an alternative to spending eternity in heaven then so be it.



God is perfect by definition. Maybe we humans do not understand what true Godly love is about. Maybe love is not about letting everyone in heaven. Why should God force those who are disinterested in God or even hostile towards God into heaven? Kind of a tough love. But consider this. We owe our existence to God. So why not a hell, if that’s how it is. God gets to make the rules. To agree with this concept is to be humble before God.



God’s invitation is for all who want to be with him. With a nod towards the Calvinists I say: truly, it is our choice. God is not cruel. He states the rules of the game and it is up to us to decide if we want to play.



See Isaiah 55:6-11, 45:9-10 and 29:16.


But isn't it cruel to let masses of people suffer for eternity?
For example...God loves us as his children..that's said many times.

Now imagine if a child wouldn't return the love that his parents gave him...he kept rejecting it...wouldn't it be sadistic if that parent decided "well, he doesn't let me...so I guess I'll throw him in a box and set it on fire"?

That's a terrible thought...but the principal is the same...If we are to be like God..then I guess we need to go to extreme punishments on children who won't obey us?

[SteelDisciple]

Yes this is always difficult to answer
I always start with a definition of Hell as a place separated from God (once and for all)
and I try to point out that only God sees the full picture (he is outside time etc) we can't (we are finite he is infinite) ... so we have no choice but to believe him on some matters (it is physically and mentally impossible for us to know/understand everything)

... so we have a chance now to choose to live with him/have a relationship with him or not to. In other words we get what we choose.
so ...

because we/they chose to be separate from God.


But if God is infinite in mercy as it says...then why didn't He create a place for non-believers that doesn't revolve around tormenting them forever?

And like someone else said...people choose to side with the devil and go where all those fallen angels go. But God is all-powerful. Why couldn't he just make a rule that those people DON'T go with satan, but go to a seperate place?

I guess what it comes down to is...allowing someone you love to suffer in eternal torment is down-right sadistic. It's wrong with parents do it...why wouldn't it be wrong in heaven as well? (that's the big question)

[SuzQ]

But isn't it cruel to let masses of people suffer for eternity?
For example...God loves us as his children..that's said many times.

Now imagine if a child wouldn't return the love that his parents gave him...he kept rejecting it...wouldn't it be sadistic if that parent decided "well, he doesn't let me...so I guess I'll throw him in a box and set it on fire"?

That's a terrible thought...but the principal is the same...If we are to be like God..then I guess we need to go to extreme punishments on children who won't obey us?

I can understand the confusion. Here's how I see it:

Like Satan who is no longer an angel of the Lord, we are no longer His children when we completely reject him. Unlike human children who are always "genetically linked" to their parents, we become evil & separated from God. If He doesn't belong to us, we eventually don't belong to Him & therefore Jesus won't "know" us when He comes back. We become like Satan & his demons, and therefore not "innocent children" being punished, but become beings with no soul, no heart, nothing left of God. :( We are knowingly choosing to reject God, therefore we're choosing that consequence.

The most important thing to tell non-believers is that God WANTS us, no matter how bad our past is. Not so that he doesn't have to punish us - but to love us for all eternity in His kingdom. Praise God!!! If punishing humans in hell seems unbelievable, how about God allowing the torture & crucifying of HIS own SON for us?? Jesus not only took the place of Isaac, He took the place of you, me, and your unsaved friends to conquer the "great divide" between us & God. It's free for our taking & costs us nothing.

Tell your friends that He died for us BEFORE we were even "believers" That's true love, folks. :bow: Anyone who questions otherwise really should watch the rated-R version of "The Passion of the Christ". (there's a newly edited version, but seeing the brutality of the original is what wakes people up to just how much God loves us). Help the unsaved focus on the LOVE & ways God shows it over & over. Then hell becomes inconsequential.

On a side note: Be sure to teach non-believers that Christianity is the ONLY religion in the world that crosses all cultural boundaries, races, geography, etc, (have you ever seen a Japanese Muslim? A South American Jew? An Alaskan Hindu? LOL! ;) ) But we see Christians ALL over the world, every race, every language. Not a coincidence. Bottom line: it is the ONLY religion in the world that teaches us to pray, "Our FATHER". FACT. We are all His children & that is undisputed.

John 3:16 - Amen? :pray:

[SteelDisciple]

I understand now. Hell was created as a prison for Satan and his fallen angels. Those that side with him go where he goes. God can't take those unsaved to heaven because God's presense is so powerful that those souls would be utterly destroyed the second they stepped into Heaven. It's only Gods love that gives christians the ability to stand in Gods presense. Only a purified soul can withstand that awesome power. Those that reject God's love chose Satan...God cannot force those to love Him and in that same way He cannot forcefully purify someone who rejects him. Though no one is in Heaven OR Hell until the final judgement. There are also multiple levels of heaven AND hell.

[SNPete]

On a side note: Be sure to teach non-believers that Christianity is the ONLY religion in the world that crosses all cultural boundaries, races, geography, etc, (have you ever seen a Japanese Muslim? A South American Jew? An Alaskan Hindu? LOL! ;) ) But we see Christians ALL over the world, every race, every language. Not a coincidence. Bottom line: it is the ONLY religion in the world that teaches us to pray, "Our FATHER". FACT. We are all His children & that is undisputed.

John 3:16 - Amen? :pray:Nice post, but there are jews in SA, muslims in japan and hindus in alaska. Just thought you should know. :D

[Followers4christ]

When God made Hell,He made it for the devil and his angels not for the human race(Matthew 25:41).
When God made the world he gave adem authority over the animals and the live stock.God made paradise for adem and God made eve to be adems helper.God gave adem and eve freedom to chose God or the devil,they could make thier own minds up.But eve deceived adem and brought sin into the world,which lead to mans down fall.After that who ever sinned would surely burn in hell.Much later people sinned so much that God killed everyone,But he saved his followers noah and his family.He promised he would never kill everyone by a flood ever again(you can read about adem and eve,noah in the book Genesis).Many years later people started Following false gods and went back in thier sinful way.When Jesus came in to the world,He died for all are sins so that all people who believe in him and follow him would inherit eternal life in heaven.We are on earth to make a choce God or the devil,If we choose God we are told to preach the Gospel to who ever will listen.Thats why we are not in heaven straight away.

John 3:16"For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son,that Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world,but to save the world through him."

Romans 3:22"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.There is no difference,for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

[SuzQ]

Nice post, but there are jews in SA, muslims in japan and hindus in alaska. Just thought you should know. :D

:) It was a joke, as I know different faiths exist in "odd" places, but not nearly as much as Christianity does.

[SuzQ]

I understand now. Hell was created as a prison for Satan and his fallen angels. Those that side with him go where he goes. God can't take those unsaved to heaven because God's presense is so powerful that those souls would be utterly destroyed the second they stepped into Heaven. It's only Gods love that gives christians the ability to stand in Gods presense. Only a purified soul can withstand that awesome power. Those that reject God's love chose Satan...God cannot force those to love Him and in that same way He cannot forcefully purify someone who rejects him. Though no one is in Heaven OR Hell until the final judgement. There are also multiple levels of heaven AND hell.

:thumbsup: Sounds good to me!

The bottom line is that Satan & hell are a part of our teaching, but the LEAST important part. When we dwell on the enemy too much, he wins. He's crafty & sneaky, as he's watched man for thousands of years now & wants us to share in his misery. He wants the attention on him & not on Christ.

[- DRA -]

From time to time i'll meet non-christians who give me this one question..it's one I can't quite figure out as I have a horrible memory, so remembering scriptures is EXTREMELY difficult. So maybe someone here can help...the question is:

If God is a God of pure, unconditional love...why does he even allow people to suffer in evil, tormenting pain for eternity in hell. God made everything which means he made hell. IS Hell a place of evil, tormenting pain and fire? And yes..God let's people choose where to go by their choices in life. BUT why did He make hell anyway...a place of pure torment if He is a God of love?

Or is it blackness..a place completely devoid of God...where you are there alone and suffer with that seperation?

Please provide scriptural backup with your response.

First off, God has an unconditional love for mankind whom He created. Jesus' sacrifice on the cross and salvation extended to all people demonstrates this to be so i.e. John 3:16, Titus 2:11, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 10:34-35.

Second, there are two sides to God -- one side which most people tend of overlook. Romans 11:22 describes both sides -- "Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." (NKJV) There are many records of God's severity in the O.T. e.g. death (after being driven away from the tree of life), the flood, the plagues upon the Egyptians, the 40 years of the wilderness wanderings, Nadab and Abihu, the rebellion of Korah, oppressions during the period of the judges, Assyrian captivity, Babylonian captivity. Even the New Testament contains examples of God's severity e.g. Anania and Sapphira and Elymas.

How severe can God be when we are disobedient and rebellious to Him? Obviously, given the history of the Old and New Testament events, He can be very severe at times. But what about hell? Would He really send us to such a place?

Let's briefly consider a few concepts about hell ...
1.) Matthew 25:46 says (KJV), "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." In essence, as we harmonize Jesus' teaching here with other passages, there will be those who go to heaven (Philippians 3:20-21), and there will be those who go to hell (gehenna -- the abode of the wicked after judgment i.e. Matthew 10:28). Note the bolded words in the passage I posted. Both words are translated from the same Koine Greek word "aionios." Therefore, we are obligated to accept that the period of punishment (hell) will last the same length of time as the period of life (heaven).
2.) Jesus used various ways to the consequences of those who are rejected by God ... outer darkness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12); fire in Matthew 3:10; and unquenchable fire in Matthew 3:12. As we consider the illustrations Jesus used, "weeping" and "gnashing of teeth" suggest a level of consciousness among those who have been rejected by God.
3.) Luke 16:19-31 reveals a level of consciousness among those in hell (hades -- the realm of the dead -- which are delivered up to God for the judgment i.e. Revelation 20:13-14). In this parable (if one chooses to call it that -- which I don't), We see both those the faithful and unfaithful conscious of their surroundings and conditions.

In summary, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 also presents the goodness and severity of God upon Jesus' return. Obviously, God has a place prepared for those who have accepted His love and Jesus' sacrifice for them, and He also has a place prepared for those who have rejected Him.

Hope this helps.

In His service, :bow:
... DRA