Hard question....

[repentant]

I have been debating on asking this question on here, that was asked of me recently. I had no idea how to answer and just kind of said I don't know...well here it is.

Someone said how Christians (in general) say that other religions such as Buddhism, Muslim etc. are demonic influenced and tricks of the devil to lead people away from Christ. Well he asked me, "what if Christianity was a trick of the devil, to lead us away from Judaism which could be the right religion?"

Well I for the first time could not even give a smidget of an answer. I was thinking I could say, you just have to have faith, but he could have said, "well all religions have faith." Or I was also thinking I could have said about all the different miracles that have happened, but he could have said, every religion has miracles, and could have attributed that to demonic influence. So basically I had no idea what to say, and this was something I never even thought about finding an answer to before. I will ask my spiritual Father, but in the meantime, I would like to hear some opinions about the subject from the people on here.

Thanks

[Akathist]

I may give a better response after thinking about this more. But my very first thought in reply was "Don't throw your pearls amoung swine."

I think that if you had no response that was probably the best response anyway.

I will think about this some more however. I was just reading something about Orthodox thoughts about demonic activity earlier today.. I'll look again to see if it is relevant and post a link if it is.

[repentant]

I may give a better response after thinking about this more. But my very first thought in reply was "Don't throw your pearls amoung swine."

I think that if you had no response that was probably the best response anyway.

I will think about this some more however. I was just reading something about Orthodox thoughts about demonic activity earlier today.. I'll look again to see if it is relevant and post a link if it is.

What do you mean by...."Don't throw your pearls amoung swine."?
I mean why would you give that response?

[Akathist]

Matthew 7:6

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

New King James Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=50) (NKJV)

Commentary from the Orthodox Study bible on Matthew 7:6.

"Jesus warns His disciples to turn away from opponents and those incapable of receiving His message. (I Cor 2:14) and to turn toward those who are receptive (10:13, 14). Dogs and swine refer to heathen peoples (Phil 3:2, Reve 22:15) but here Jesus' own Jewish contemporaries are obviously not excluded. According to the Church Fathers, dogs are those so deeply immersed in godlessness that they show no hope to change, while swine are those who habitually live an unchaste and immoral life-style. The pearls are Christ's teachings (13:46) or the "inner mysteries" of the Christian faith, particularly the Eucharist."

I would not say anything in response to the question... in your words, I would not give that response. I just would give no response. I would leave the question unanswered because this is a question that is likely being used to start an unwinnable debate by someone who is not open to hearing the message of Christ.

There are enough other people who want to believe and who do not contribute Godly things to the devil. They are the one's I would focus my responses to according to what Jesus is saying in this passage.

DISCLAIMER: What is bolded here is quotes. My thoughts are in regular font style. They are MY THOUGHTS. MY OPINIONS and are NOT meant to replace the advice of a Priest. I may very well be misunderstanding the content of the quote as well.

[repentant]

Matthew 7:6

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

New King James Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=50) (NKJV)

Commentary from the Orthodox Study bible on Matthew 7:6.

"Jesus warns His disciples to turn away from opponents and those incapable of receiving His message. (I Cor 2:14) and to turn toward those who are receptive (10:13, 14). Dogs and swine refer to heathen peoples (Phil 3:2, Reve 22:15) but here Jesus' own Jewish contemporaries are obviously not excluded. According to the Church Fathers, dogs are those so deeply immersed in godlessness that they show no hope to change, while swine are those who habitually live an unchaste and immoral life-style. The pearls are Christ's teachings (13:46) or the "inner mysteries" of the Christian faith, particularly the Eucharist."

I would not say anything in response to the question... in your words, I would not give that response. I just would give no response. I would leave the question unanswered because this is a question that is likely being used to start an unwinnable debate by someone who is not open to hearing the message of Christ.

There are enough other people who want to believe and who do not contribute Godly things to the devil. They are the one's I would focus my responses to according to what Jesus is saying in this passage.

DISCLAIMER: What is bolded here is quotes. My thoughts are in regular font style. They are MY THOUGHTS. MY OPINIONS and are NOT meant to replace the advice of a Priest. I may very well be misunderstanding the content of the quote as well.

I knew where the quote was from, was just wondering what you meant by that. I can see where you are coming from, but this is a person who is interested in Orthodoxy and asks me questions all the time, and usually I can answer. So I don't really want to turn away from him, because he is receptive. I thought maybe if I could come up with an intelligant answer, it would be helpful for his understanding of Christianity. When Jesus said the above passage, he was reffering to people who don't want to hear ths Word, or who have no intention of changing their lives. This person is not like that, he wants to hear, and is looking for a religion that seems the best for him. So we talk about Orthodoxy and such, so as to show how complete it is. But not having an answer to that question, makes me feel like he will think Orthodoxy, or Christianity in general is not complete. Thanks for the advice though.

[Akathist]

That is a different situation. However, I guess I would tell him that there is no answer to his question as there is no common ground for you to speak with him on. Of course, you believe that Christianity is the Truth and you believe this due to your own convictions and experiences and intelligent thought about it. His question however, is so hypothetical that there can be no intelligent response.

Then suggest that he ask you a question that is not so hypothetical to keep the discussion going.

I think it is wonderful that he is having these discourses with you!

BTW, when I have been asked this exact same question (and I have numerous times with only slight changes to the wording which makes one wonder where they are getting it from), it is usually because the person wants to bait me and get me to doubt my own faith because he or she doesn't believe and thinks my own beliefs are illogical. That is why I gave you the original answer.

I am glad your situation is different. May he come to know the fullness of faith!

[repentant]

thank you for your kind responses. That does seem like the good way to go. I will still ask my spiritual father this, and maybe my spiritual father would want to meet him, who knows. But if it comes up again, I will just tell him that I can't not answer in a way he could understand. I hope that will be ok

[Happy Orthodox]

Hey, repentant, I just was preparing a text in Russian for a Russian friend who has the same type of question your friend has. A Russian deacon, very famous in Russia for multiple publications in apologetics, wrote an entire book explaining how Orthodoxy is the truth. There is also another book, which converted me and my mom, but it is also in Russian. If you want, I could give you some idea of what the deacon talks about to a limited degree, unfurtunately, due to the lack of time. But in short, his message is if you study all religions (which he did himself, as an atheist before he converted) carefully and systemaitcally, you will find that Orthodoxy presents the best and only canditate for being truthful and sound. But, of course, mere conviction that Orthodoxy is true will not do any good. One needs faith, one needs to KNOW with the whole of his being that Orthodoxy is THE true faith. And that something lacking in other religions but present in Orthodoxy is love.

[Cappadocian]

I believe that all religions are true insofar as they go, but they do not go far enough because they do not reach Christ. In other words, you can find Christ to a degree in the mythology and piety of each religion, but you will not find the fullest expression of Christ in them. I don't necessarily think that people of other religions are worshipping demons, but they might be worshipping images of God that are not as full, bright or complete as they might.

But even we Orthodox must continually strive in our own prayer life and worship to "reach Jesus," "find the fullest expression of Christ," and to "see the brightest vision of God," so this challenge and task is presented to all of us, even Orthodox Christians!

This reminds me of a passage from Irenaeus of Lyons:
Christ did not come only for those who, since the time of the Emperor Tiberius, have believed in him, nor has the Father exercised his providence only in favour of people now living, but in favour of all without exception right from the beginning, who have feared God and loved him and practised justice and kindness towards their neighbours and desired to see Christ and hear his voice, in accordance with their abilities and the age in which they were living.

[Monica, child of God]

Someone (an Orthodox but I can't remember who) said that you can either see Christianity as the fulfillment of all things or the condemnation of all things. I think (my opinion) that the Orthodox tend to view our faith as the fulfillment of all religions which each have their grain of truth, to varying degrees. Each religion's truth, including Judaism, is made full, whole and illumined by Truth, Jesus Christ.

As for how you communicate this to your friend, I have no idea.

Monica

[Annoula]

i believe that orthodoxy is a highly "experiential" faith.

for example islam requires submission to God. Submission is the key word for the muslim.

in Orthodoxy, a christian needs to built their faith piece by piece. "Experiences" of various kinds, demonic, angelic can help us build our faith.

we have to have personal experience of Orthodoxy in order to be sure of what is Orthodoxy about. it's not just reading the New Testament and praying.

i think it is important to say that to someone that is interested in christianity. Orthodoxy is not just a logical religion and a christian is not just an intelligent person giving smart answers (although i understand we should do that some times).

Orthodoxy it's much more than logic, prayers, and intelligence. For me it's first of all Experience. Experience that proves to me that i am on the right track.


Peace!

[repentant]

I appreciate the input, told you it was a hard one.

[prodromos]

I can't speak for all, but a great many false religions have their origin in one man or a small group of people at a particular point in time. I think Christianity is unique in that it was revealed gradually over thousands of years through many, many people all pointing towards the coming of Christ.

John

[e=mv^2]

Judaism is for Jews. Not for gentiles. There can be no arguing this. The old covenant was made with Jews for Jews and only for Jews. Only genetic Jews have any claim to the old covenant.
The net effect is that If christianity is a Jewish heresy then it would only affect Jews as the gentiles would simply remain godless. The question is not relevant to a gentile. Is the asker a Jew?