WotA/On the Garden of the Heart

[MrJim]

Way of the Ascetics by Tito Colliander
Chapter 4 "On the Garden of the Heart"

"...The garden we have undertaken to tend and watch over is the field of our own heart; the harvest is eternal life.

Eternal, because it is independent of time and space and other external circumstances: itis the true life of freedom, thelife of love and mercy and light, that has no bounds whatever,and for just that reason is eternal.

Persecute yourself, says St. Isaac of Syria, and your enemy is routed as fast as you approach. Make peace with yourself, and heaven and earth make peace with you. Take pains to enter your own innermost chamber and you will see the chamber of heaven, for they are one and the same, an in entering one you behold them both. The stairway to the kingdom is within you, secret in your soul."

OK, there is a lot of stuff in Chapter 4.

1. I would like some thoughts on "persecute yourself". I would expect this is as Paul said about bringing yourself into subjection-self control-things like that. Would that be accurate? Or is it more along the lines of Rom 12 in being not conformed but transformed?

How do you TAW folks persecute yourself?

2. The last line about the stairway to the kingdom is within you--if someone could expand on that too. I have some thoughts but would like yours first.

Thanks TAW

[Orthosdoxa]

I don't persecute myself. Then again, I'm not always the best Christian. I'm just trying to slog along and not screw up horribly.

On your second question, it reminded me of this quote by Clark Carlton:
Hell is, therefore, not so much an external condition of punishment as the inward suffering of self-isolation. When Christ returns in glory and God becomes all in all (1 Cor. 15:28), those who have sealed themselves off in the fortresses of their own egos-those for whom hell is other people-will be faced with the torment of His eternal presence. His very presence will be a judgment and a torment because He is life and love Himself, the ontological antithesis of self-contained individuality. In that Day, there will be no place to hide, no refuge from His burning presence, for our God is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:29). In the words of one of the desert Fathers, The fire of hell is the love of God.

If the locus of hell is the depth of ones own soul, then the Kingdom of God must begin there as well. Did not Jesus Himself declare, the Kingdom of God is within you? In my younger days that verse always bothered me; it certainly was not one that generated a lot of sermons. It seemed too subjective. And yet, this came from the lips of the Savior Himself. When, however, I embraced the Truth of Orthodoxy and encountered the life-giving Trinity, this verse began to make sense. Heaven is not a cosmic Disneyworld, but the state of perfect God-likeness, for which man had originally been created

Don't know if that helps or not, but didn't want your questions to get ignored. :)

LK

[MrJim]

Heaven is not a cosmic Disneyworld, but the state of perfect God-likeness, for which man had originally been created

Now that is an interesting quote. Heaven is generally referred to as a more physical-oriented destination...

[icxn]

Heaven is not a cosmic Disneyworld, but the state of perfect God-likeness, for which man had originally been created

Now that is an interesting quote. Heaven is generally referred to as a more physical-oriented destination...

... because the majority of people would not understand that it is a spiritual state of being and therefore scripture presents an analogy from visible things.

icxn

[MrJim]

... because the majority of people would not understand that it is a spiritual state of being and therefore scripture presents an analogy from visible things.

icxn

Am I hearing you say the pearl gates and gold streets are analogy?

[Philip]

... because the majority of people would not understand that it is a spiritual state of being and therefore scripture presents an analogy from visible things.


I am not completely comfortable with this. Orthodoxy certainly teaches a physical resurrection.

[icxn]

I am not completely comfortable with this. Orthodoxy certainly teaches a physical resurrection.
Of course but then the new body is transfigured so as not to require food and not to be restricted by space like Christ's after He was raised from the dead and could enter the room with the doors being closed.

From St. Maximus:

90. Some try to discover how the kingdom of heaven differs from the kingdom of God. Is there a difference in their actual nature, or is the difference a conceptual one? The answer is that they do not differ in their actual natures, but merely in our conception of them. The kingdom of heaven consists in possessing an inviolate and pre-eternal knowledge of created things through perceiving their inner essences as they exist in God. The kingdom of God is the imparting through grace of those blessings which pertain naturally to God. The first concerns the consummation of created things, the second our conception of their state after they reach their consummation. (Don't ask me the meaning of this :))
91. The text, ‘The kingdom of heaven has drawn near’ (Matt. 3:2; 4:17), does not in my judgment imply any temporal limitation. For the kingdom ‘does not come in a way that can be observed: one cannot say, “Look, it is here” or “Look, it is there” ‘ (Luke 17:20-21). The phrase has reference to the relationship which the saints have with the kingdom, each according to his or her inner state. For ‘the kingdom of God’, says Scripture, ‘is within you’ (Luke 17:21).
92. The kingdom of God the Father is present in all believers in potentiality; it is present in actuality in those who, after totally expelling all natural life of soul and body from their inner state, have attained the life of the Spirit alone and are able to say, ‘I no longer live, but Christ lives in me’ (Gal. 2:20).
93. Some say that the kingdom of heaven is the way of life which the saints lead in heaven; others that it is a state similar to that of the angels, attained by those who are saved; others that it is the very form of the divine beauty of those who ‘wear the image of Him who is from heaven’ (1 Cor. 15:49). In my judgment each of these three views is correct. For the grace of the kingdom is given to all according to the quality and quantity of the righteousness that is in them.

[icxn]

Am I hearing you say the pearl gates and gold streets are analogy?

Of course. Haven't you read what scripture says, "Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;'" If the Kingdom has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that is, it existed before the world was created how can the pearl gates and the gold streets be literal? And if perchance you interpret from to mean at the same time and insist on a literal interpretation how can it be that "...no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him" (1 Cor. 2:9)?

icxn

[choirfiend]

When we receive our new bodies at the creation of the New Earth, there will be none of this silly dichotomy between body and soul/spirit. Our perfected bodies will be able to be in the presence of God.

[MrJim]

Of course. Haven't you read what scripture says, "Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;'" If the Kingdom has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that is, it existed before the world was created how can the pearl gates and the gold streets be literal? And if perchance you interpret from to mean at the same time and insist on a literal interpretation how can it be that "...no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him" (1 Cor. 2:9)?

icxn

Never heard this take on the afterlife. So what you are saying is simply that it is not known what the Kingdom of heaven will be.

What, then, is the analogy? That the kingdom is of great value (with all the mention of gold/silver/gems) beyond imagine and the idea of pearl gates and gold streets-which is beyond image-are just using available words to try to explain the unexplainable?

[choirfiend]

I would say that is a correct understanding of the idea.

[MrJim]

I would say that is a correct understanding of the idea.

You know it does make sense.

What is happening is trying to contain what God is going to do into some package we can "handle" except the package is too big and the handle keeps falling off.

And back to the original OP where the Kingdom is inside us...I think there is some light breaking through here.

Thanks for your imput. :kiss:

[Orthosdoxa]

That the kingdom is of great value (with all the mention of gold/silver/gems) beyond imagine and the idea of pearl gates and gold streets-which is beyond image-are just using available words to try to explain the unexplainable?

I couldn't have phrased it better myself. :hug: