Orthodox in the Confessional

[Vasya Davidovich]

I noted that in the Convert thread the issue of confessions was raised, and I thought that this might be bulky enough of a theme to merit its own thread.

I also have some more personal reasons for starting this thread... I have some friends who have (had) trouble with the confessional for various reasons. The most recent case came up in the past little bit, where my good friend "Freddie" was looking to me for counsel. I had none to give, really - I'm not impartial enough.

Maybe the wiser or the more opinionated would care to comment on the cases that I present below?

Case 1: Amanda was abused by a priest some years ago. She fears priests and the priesthood (understandably), and her trust is lacking (even more understandably). How does she deal with confessing things to someone she cannot trust? Especially things of an intimate nature?

Case 2: John has issues with authority. Bluntly put, he rebels, frequently and radically. The stronger the authority figure, the greater the rebellion. How does he approach someone who has the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, someone who is an icon of Christ Himself (the ultimate of authorities)?

Case 3: Peter repeats sin. He is a habitual sinner. And every single confession he ends up repeating practically the same litany of sins. He almost has the list memorized. [How often have I heard him rant on this theme!] However, he is getting sick and tired of never getting anywhere in his spiritual walk, and feels that he is treading a mire endlessly. He is ashamed to go forward, yet again, to confess the same sins, yet again.

Case 4: Susannah has no problem going to the confessional, but her priest pries. He asks for details, and plenty of them, in whatsoever she confesses... no matter how embarassing or sordid the sins are. Susannah is beginning to wonder how Orthodox this methodology is, and now dreads confession.

Case 5 (the one that came up recently): Freddie has committed some sexual sins, but is afraid to broach them with his priest, with whom he is on good terms, and whose good esteem he desires to keep. Freddie knows he has to confess, but wants to find someone - anyone - else. [I didn't know quite how to direct him, as I sympathized with his desire to keep in his priest's esteem. Thoughts?]

If you wish to comment, please reference the name of my friend or the case number. This will keep things clearer. Thanks.

-Vasya.

PS. Names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent. -V.

[gzt]

I don't think any of us are really qualified to comment on these, but as for cases 3 and 5, I'd say suck it up and confess it to your usual confessor.

[gzt]

Note that what I said may not be helpful advice for person having a problem, but it's probably what I'd need to hear.

[repentant]

I won't even try to answer this. Are you using examples to learn? Or are these real people you know?

[Philip]

Maybe the wiser or the more opinionated would care to comment on the cases that I present below?

These should probably be addressed by a priest. In the meantime, I'll embarrass myself by trying to answer.


Case 1: Amanda was abused by a priest some years ago. She fears priests and the priesthood (understandably), and her trust is lacking (even more understandably). How does she deal with confessing things to someone she cannot trust? Especially things of an intimate nature?

Perhaps she could first speak with the presbytera. After trust is established there, with both the priest and the presbytera.


Case 2: John has issues with authority. Bluntly put, he rebels, frequently and radically. The stronger the authority figure, the greater the rebellion. How does he approach someone who has the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, someone who is an icon of Christ Himself (the ultimate of authorities)?

I am confused as to the situation. Does John want to confess? Does he understand his rebellion is wrong?


Case 3: Peter repeats sin. He is a habitual sinner. And every single confession he ends up repeating practically the same litany of sins. He almost has the list memorized. [How often have I heard him rant on this theme!] However, he is getting sick and tired of never getting anywhere in his spiritual walk, and feels that he is treading a mire endlessly. He is ashamed to go forward, yet again, to confess the same sins, yet again.

This is definitely an issue that should be handled by Peter's spiritual father.


Case 4: Susannah has no problem going to the confessional, but her priest pries. He asks for details, and plenty of them, in whatsoever she confesses... no matter how embarassing or sordid the sins are. Susannah is beginning to wonder how Orthodox this methodology is, and now dreads confession.

Difficult one. Perhaps there is another priest she can speak with?


Case 5 (the one that came up recently): Freddie has committed some sexual sins, but is afraid to broach them with his priest, with whom he is on good terms, and whose good esteem he desires to keep. Freddie knows he has to confess, but wants to find someone - anyone - else. [I didn't know quite how to direct him, as I sympathized with his desire to keep in his priest's esteem. Thoughts?]

Will priest hold him in a higher esteem if Freddie confesses the sins? Or will he hold him in a higher esteem if he learns that Freddie was hiding his sins and did not trust him?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

These are indeed tough, but I'd love to see them discussed. I can personally relate to the first one (case 1). I wasn't abused by a priest, but I was abused in other ways and it has caused me to be very distrusting of men in authority. My first confession (life confession) was actually somewhat traumatic for me. I didn't get the joy of feeling relief after the confession. I still have trust issues, so I would love to see if anyone has advice on this (obviously I can't talk to my priest about it because I am not able to trust him).

[Vasya Davidovich]

I won't even try to answer this. Are you using examples to learn? Or are these real people you know?
Well, these can all be used to learn. I mean, I see a lot of myself in Case 2 (John), and I daresay many of us could say something similiar ... see ourselves reflected in these stories.

But they are all gleaned from real life. Real friends. And I am not revealing any deep dark secrets either. "Amanda", for example, is quite public with her case. Not that anyone outside my parish would ever know to whom I am referring.

I'm just wondering how to overcome these kinds of things. I want to know how to answer Susannah and Freddie, and I want to be able to combat my own John-like tendencies.

Advice, thoughts, etc. would be appreciated.

-Vasya.

[Vasya Davidovich]

These should probably be addressed by a priest. In the meantime, I'll embarrass myself by trying to answer.
Thanks for making the effort. :)
Perhaps she could first speak with the presbytera. After trust is established there, with both the priest and the presbytera.
Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, not all presbyteras are approachable.
I am confused as to the situation. Does John want to confess? Does he understand his rebellion is wrong?
Sorry. My bad.
In John's case, I really don't know. His rebellion masquerades under the cover of "zeal". I hope that he wants to confess it, but I suspect that he isn't aware of it.

But my own lesser rebellions crept into my story. In my case, I realize that rebellion is bad, and I confess it. However, the nature of rebellion lies in that when one places oneself under authority, one wants to kick over the traces.

A not-so-amusing cycle.
This is definitely an issue that should be handled by Peter's spiritual father.
Hmm. Hard to do when Peter is not going to confession.
Difficult one. Perhaps there is another priest she can speak with?
Nope. Susannah is relatively isolated.
Will priest hold him in a higher esteem if Freddie confesses the sins? Or will he hold him in a higher esteem if he learns that Freddie was hiding his sins and did not trust him?
This is a trick question, isn't it?

[repentant]

I noted that in the Convert thread the issue of confessions was raised, and I thought that this might be bulky enough of a theme to merit its own thread.

I also have some more personal reasons for starting this thread... I have some friends who have (had) trouble with the confessional for various reasons. The most recent case came up in the past little bit, where my good friend "Freddie" was looking to me for counsel. I had none to give, really - I'm not impartial enough.

Maybe the wiser or the more opinionated would care to comment on the cases that I present below?

Case 1: Amanda was abused by a priest some years ago. She fears priests and the priesthood (understandably), and her trust is lacking (even more understandably). How does she deal with confessing things to someone she cannot trust? Especially things of an intimate nature?

Case 2: John has issues with authority. Bluntly put, he rebels, frequently and radically. The stronger the authority figure, the greater the rebellion. How does he approach someone who has the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, someone who is an icon of Christ Himself (the ultimate of authorities)?

Case 3: Peter repeats sin. He is a habitual sinner. And every single confession he ends up repeating practically the same litany of sins. He almost has the list memorized. [How often have I heard him rant on this theme!] However, he is getting sick and tired of never getting anywhere in his spiritual walk, and feels that he is treading a mire endlessly. He is ashamed to go forward, yet again, to confess the same sins, yet again.

Case 4: Susannah has no problem going to the confessional, but her priest pries. He asks for details, and plenty of them, in whatsoever she confesses... no matter how embarassing or sordid the sins are. Susannah is beginning to wonder how Orthodox this methodology is, and now dreads confession.

Case 5 (the one that came up recently): Freddie has committed some sexual sins, but is afraid to broach them with his priest, with whom he is on good terms, and whose good esteem he desires to keep. Freddie knows he has to confess, but wants to find someone - anyone - else. [I didn't know quite how to direct him, as I sympathized with his desire to keep in his priest's esteem. Thoughts?]

If you wish to comment, please reference the name of my friend or the case number. This will keep things clearer. Thanks.

-Vasya.

PS. Names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent. -V.

Case 1..since you mention converts, was she abused by a Orthodox Priest or another faith Priest? Either way the idea mentioned earlier sounds good, talking to the wife of the Priest may comfort her a little bit. Then she could move on to the Priest.

case 2..i really don't understand this one either. Maybe he should talk to the priest about his rebellion, or in other words his self pride, which in itself is a sin. The get counseled about that, then maybe he will be able to open up more.

case 3..well you must understand we are always going to sin, the hard part is trying not to. As long as he repents everytime, and everytime he does less and less, overall he will be allright. And it's always easy to think your not getting anywhere, God knows I feel like that, but we need to have patience, it is a great virtue that is hard to aquire but we need to. Once he is patient then he will see his progress, and not feel his is getting nowhere.

case 4..this is common for a Priest to do. They want you to give a frank confession and not hold anything back. We shouldn't want to anyway, becasue every unconfessed sin will be used against us. By them asking questions, which seemsl ike prying, they are just trying to get you to open up. They want your soul to be saved, and as your Spiritual Father they will do whatever the can to do it, even if it seems like they're prying. And remember Priests never judge you, and are always happy when you confess your sins. But they would rather you not sinned, but that's impossible anyways.

case 5...Priests will never look down on you for something you did. They know what the world is like, and how temptation is everywhere. And like I said before they won't judge you, they have heard it all before anyways. He should try to stick with his normal confessor, as it's not good to change, plus the one he goes to now knows him, and his history. And like someone said earlier, he wouldn't hold him in any less esteem if he confesses.

Well thats what my simple mind came up with.

[MariaRegina]

Case 4: Susannah has no problem going to the confessional, but her priest pries. He asks for details, and plenty of them, in whatsoever she confesses... no matter how embarassing or sordid the sins are. Susannah is beginning to wonder how Orthodox this methodology is, and now dreads confession.

Priests are men --- and they are sinners like us. If a priest asks for the sordid details -- which are really not necessary -- then she should find another confessor because he could have an unhealthy attraction to her.

Likewise, if a woman feels attracted to a priest .. then she should definitely not go to him for confession.

My former confessor was on powerful medications and was weird at times (I won't elaborate), so I searched for another confessor.

[Matrona]

Although I don't think I have the ability to comment on the stories given in the OP--those would be much better put before a priest--I do have my share of troubles when it comes to confession.

Let's just say, when it comes to confession, I don't have issues, I have bound editions. Being in a mission parish, I don't really have the opportunity very often, which works fine with my spiritual state at the moment, as it takes me a long time and a lot of struggling in order to work up the courage to do it again. I also had to cut someone out of my life who made it their business to exacerbate my uneasiness over confession. I may not confess as much as I should, but I've gotten indisputably better about it since I converted. I know none of you are qualified to give me guidance but anyone offering a bit of friendly advice would be appreciated. :)

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Priests are men --- and they are sinners like us. If a priest asks for the sordid details -- which are really not necessary -- then she should find another confessor because he could have an unhealthy attraction to her.

Likewise, if a woman feels attracted to a priest .. then she should definitely not go to him for confession.

My former confessor was on powerful medications and was weird at times (I won't elaborate), so I searched for another confessor.
How would a person go about finding abother confessor? What would you tell your former confessor?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Although I don't think I have the ability to comment on the stories given in the OP--those would be much better put before a priest--I do have my share of troubles when it comes to confession.

Let's just say, when it comes to confession, I don't have issues, I have bound editions. Being in a mission parish, I don't really have the opportunity very often, which works fine with my spiritual state at the moment, as it takes me a long time and a lot of struggling in order to work up the courage to do it again. I also had to cut someone out of my life who made it their business to exacerbate my uneasiness over confession. I may not confess as much as I should, but I've gotten indisputably better about it since I converted. I know none of you are qualified to give me guidance but anyone offering a bit of friendly advice would be appreciated. :)
:hug:I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Vasya Davidovich]

How would a person go about finding abother confessor? What would you tell your former confessor?
This raises the interesting question of:

What do you TAWers think of the practice of having a parish priest and having a spiritual father as opposed to the practice of having a parish priest/spiritual father?

Ie. two men vs. one?

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Good post! I don’t have answers to all your questions, but I’ll take a crack at some of ‘em.



For Case #2 (John): When we are chrismated, we must “die to self.” (Galatians 2:20, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.) That means putting aside any desires or ideologies that separate us from Christ. James 5:16 says, “Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.” Bearing this in mind, it makes sense that we would confess our sins to our spiritual father, our priest, for he has our best interests at heart. He has gone to seminary; he is educated in the ways of the Church, in interpreting the Holy Scriptures, and in assisting us in our walk with Christ.



In some ways, we should look at our priest as a football player regards his Coach. Just as the Coach of a Football team will push the players to their physical limits to make them stronger in the game, our priest will push us to our spiritual limits to aid us in our eternal walk with Christ. Just as a Coach knows when to praise and when to criticize, our priest consoles and corrects us in confession.



Is confession about authority? Absolutely. It is about coming to terms with who rules in our life; Christ or sin. The act of Confession allows us the opportunity to lay down our worldly selves, and to allow Christ to live in us.



In the end, what one has to realize is that it’s not “all about me.” It doesn’t matter what we may think is cool or uncool, or what our position on authority is, because God still rules. Your friend may try to rebel against this all he wants, but it will not move God from the throne. He has to come to terms with that.



It doesn’t matter if he likes or dislikes God’s commandments; the kingdom of Heaven is not a democracy. God has no popular opinion polls. What God says, goes.



When he realizes this, he will be able to accept the idea of confession.



God bless,



Maureen

[Vasya Davidovich]

Case 1..since you mention converts, was she abused by a Orthodox Priest or another faith Priest? Either way the idea mentioned earlier sounds good, talking to the wife of the Priest may comfort her a little bit. Then she could move on to the Priest.
Orthodox priest, unfortunately. It happens.
case 2..i really don't understand this one either. Maybe he should talk to the priest about his rebellion, or in other words his self pride, which in itself is a sin. The get counseled about that, then maybe he will be able to open up more.
I know. Tricky. You feel so helpless when you see your friend on "self-destruct". It's like watching a train wreck happen - you are unable to do anything to stop it.
case 3..well you must understand we are always going to sin, the hard part is trying not to. As long as he repents everytime, and everytime he does less and less, overall he will be allright. And it's always easy to think your not getting anywhere, God knows I feel like that, but we need to have patience, it is a great virtue that is hard to aquire but we need to. Once he is patient then he will see his progress, and not feel his is getting nowhere.
A very thoughtful response, Repentant.
case 4..this is common for a Priest to do. They want you to give a frank confession and not hold anything back. We shouldn't want to anyway, becasue every unconfessed sin will be used against us. By them asking questions, which seemsl ike prying, they are just trying to get you to open up. They want your soul to be saved, and as your Spiritual Father they will do whatever the can to do it, even if it seems like they're prying. And remember Priests never judge you, and are always happy when you confess your sins. But they would rather you not sinned, but that's impossible anyways.

case 5...Priests will never look down on you for something you did. They know what the world is like, and how temptation is everywhere. And like I said before they won't judge you, they have heard it all before anyways. He should try to stick with his normal confessor, as it's not good to change, plus the one he goes to now knows him, and his history. And like someone said earlier, he wouldn't hold him in any less esteem if he confesses.

Well thats what my simple mind came up with.
Unfortunately, priests are also men. And sometimes the simply-a-man side of the equation is a little stronger than the icon-of-Christ side.

As for Susannah (case 4), my understanding was that the prying was not so much for specific sin (ie. swore, lusted) as prying for all the details pertaining to the sin (ie. swore at so-and-so because of X, or lusted at such-and-such a person and thought Y). And personally, that strikes me as weird, not helpful.

[Cecilytwin]

About case 3, I think this is a common problem. I have told my confessor the same thing, that I am ashamed to confess the same things over and over, and he immediately said, that that was a feeling sent from the devil, who wants us to stay in our fallen state. No, we fall and get up until the end of our lives.
About case 5, it is a sin to conceal sins. And it is also a sin to confess a sin to another priest, if if is only for concealment. I've heard this from priests and from reading I think it's called On Confession, by a pre -revolutionary Russian bishop, and in the book, The mystery of repentance I think it' s called. Concealment comes from pride. We don't want someone to think of us as we really are or worse than we project ourselves to be. It's kind of a form of lying.
Not that I'm omnicient, these are things that I've heard.

[repentant]

Orthodox priest, unfortunately. It happens.

I know. Tricky. You feel so helpless when you see your friend on "self-destruct". It's like watching a train wreck happen - you are unable to do anything to stop it.

A very thoughtful response, Repentant.

Unfortunately, priests are also men. And sometimes the simply-a-man side of the equation is a little stronger than the icon-of-Christ side.

As for Susannah (case 4), my understanding was that the prying was not so much for specific sin (ie. swore, lusted) as prying for all the details pertaining to the sin (ie. swore at so-and-so because of X, or lusted at such-and-such a person and thought Y). And personally, that strikes me as weird, not helpful.

Well having lustful thoughts is a sin as well, so trying to get her to confess her thoughts would seem normal. Acting out your thought is not just the sin, but thinking of it, without an immediate dismisal is a sin as well. All bad thoughts that a person has comes from demonic influence, what causes this to become a sin is accepting of it and then start to think about it. If you dismiss the thought as soon as it comes, without paying attention to it, then it's not harmful. The devil tries to get to everyone, so we are not accountable for the thoughts he implants in our heads, if, we immediatley dismiss it as demonic influence, and don't dwell on it.

[Vasya Davidovich]

About case 3, I think this is a common problem. I have told my confessor the same thing, that I am ashamed to confess the same things over and over, and he immediately said, that that was a feeling sent from the devil, who wants us to stay in our fallen state. No, we fall and get up until the end of our lives.
Well said, Cecily Twin.
About case 5, it is a sin to conceal sins. And it is also a sin to confess a sin to another priest, if if is only for concealment. I've heard this from priests and from reading I think it's called On Confession, by a pre -revolutionary Russian bishop, and in the book, The mystery of repentance I think it' s called. Concealment comes from pride. We don't want someone to think of us as we really are or worse than we project ourselves to be. It's kind of a form of lying.
Not that I'm omnicient, these are things that I've heard.
Ouch! I doubt that Freddie will enjoy hearing this.

But I have an uneasy feeling that you have hit the nail on the head.

Would you be able to find out the name of the Russian bishop who wrote that book? I should like to have my authorities citable when I speak to him.

Thanks again.

-Vasya.

[Marjorie]

GDE & Matrona,

Everyone has his/her own issues and pet sins to deal with... in my case, a HUGE one is guilt and just being paranoid. So for me I don't get the relief feeling most do after confession generally, because I just go back and worry about not having confessed well enough directly afterwards, and then feel bad about not having the right feelings i.e. sinning. Of COURSE it's all irrational and I know this, and I know God's mercy, and so on... but it's just one of my own personal problems. It is definitely hard for me to react to confession in the same way a lot of people do... especially because I feel that I'm being dishonest even when I'm not... I also am just always completely petrified, not so much about saying my sins, but about not being able to do it in any way that actually conveys what my sins are, but just using it as a "get of jail free" card before next communion.

So anyway, just wanted to say that one shouldn't feel like one is doing something wrong if they don't react to confession the way most seem to. We're all different, and Christ is healing all of our pains...

I definitely felt like I was somehow confessing wrong for a while, though. It is good to hear that there are other experiences a bit like mine.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Cecilytwin]

Oh, it's not my thought, it's my spiritual father's.
The book I was thinking of is Confession, A Series of Lectures on the Mystery of Repentence, by Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky. It was given in a seminary for priests direction, but it's also good for laity to read while preparing for confession.
There is a whole lecture about fear of admitting a sin. As Met. Anthony points out "As the Church says (prayers before confession) say "If thou hidest anything from me, thou hast the greater sin. Take heed therefore, lest, having come to a physician, thou depart unhealed."
It's a very good book.

[MariaRegina]

Oh, it's not my thought, it's my spiritual father's.
The book I was thinking of is Confession, A Series of Lectures on the Mystery of Repentence, by Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky. It was given in a seminary for priests direction, but it's also good for laity to read while preparing for confession.
There is a whole lecture about fear of admitting a sin. As Met. Anthony points out "As the Church says (prayers before confession) say "If thou hidest anything from me, thou hast the greater sin. Take heed therefore, lest, having come to a physician, thou depart unhealed."
It's a very good book.

Yes, that prayer makes one take notice.

Better not to confess, than to confess unworthily.
Better to repent first before going to Confession.

[MariaRegina]

How would a person go about finding abother confessor? What would you tell your former confessor?

I told my former confessor that I could no longer go to confession to him, that it was tearing me up inside.

Unfortunately, he was kind of arrogant and told the people of the parish that they should confess to their parish priest (him). Not everyone could handle his attitude. He finally left our parish for another. Pray for him.

Sometimes a person must travel. A lot of my friends travel two to three hours to see their confessor once per month.

Even when I was a Roman Catholic, I did the same. Not every priest should be hearing confessions.

We must use discernment in chosing our spiritual father. Even the saints said this. With a priest or two being defrocked every year, because they have left their wives for another woman, would you go to that priest?

We must pray for our priests.

They really need our prayers, because this world

has become so evil and their judgment is being influenced by it.

[katherine2001]

I noted that in the Convert thread the issue of confessions was raised, and I thought that this might be bulky enough of a theme to merit its own thread.

I also have some more personal reasons for starting this thread... I have some friends who have (had) trouble with the confessional for various reasons. The most recent case came up in the past little bit, where my good friend "Freddie" was looking to me for counsel. I had none to give, really - I'm not impartial enough.

Maybe the wiser or the more opinionated would care to comment on the cases that I present below?

Case 1: Amanda was abused by a priest some years ago. She fears priests and the priesthood (understandably), and her trust is lacking (even more understandably). How does she deal with confessing things to someone she cannot trust? Especially things of an intimate nature?

Case 2: John has issues with authority. Bluntly put, he rebels, frequently and radically. The stronger the authority figure, the greater the rebellion. How does he approach someone who has the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, someone who is an icon of Christ Himself (the ultimate of authorities)?

Case 3: Peter repeats sin. He is a habitual sinner. And every single confession he ends up repeating practically the same litany of sins. He almost has the list memorized. [How often have I heard him rant on this theme!] However, he is getting sick and tired of never getting anywhere in his spiritual walk, and feels that he is treading a mire endlessly. He is ashamed to go forward, yet again, to confess the same sins, yet again.

Case 4: Susannah has no problem going to the confessional, but her priest pries. He asks for details, and plenty of them, in whatsoever she confesses... no matter how embarassing or sordid the sins are. Susannah is beginning to wonder how Orthodox this methodology is, and now dreads confession.

Case 5 (the one that came up recently): Freddie has committed some sexual sins, but is afraid to broach them with his priest, with whom he is on good terms, and whose good esteem he desires to keep. Freddie knows he has to confess, but wants to find someone - anyone - else. [I didn't know quite how to direct him, as I sympathized with his desire to keep in his priest's esteem. Thoughts?]

If you wish to comment, please reference the name of my friend or the case number. This will keep things clearer. Thanks.

-Vasya.

PS. Names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent. -V.

I won't answer all the cases, but in Case 1, she needs to be open with her priest about what happened. That will give him some insight about how he needs to be with her. Any parent has to treat each child differently because each of his children is different. She doesn't have to give him the other priest's name, but she definitely needs to let her present priest know what happened. He'll know that he has to give her time to trust him and that he'll have to work to gain that trust. I always had trouble trusting others because of abuse in my own life. My second priest especially gained my trust and I knew that I could tell him anything--he was there for me when God was opening a lot of wounds and I was in a lot of pain. I pray that her current priest will be as great as my second priest was with me.

In case 2, the more you struggle with rebellion (and I struggle somewhat with this myself), the more you need confession. The Holy Spirit will show the priest how he should deal with John. Most priests I've had have been very good about figuring out how I need to be handled at each particular moment--do I need to be treated with a lot of compassion, or does he need to be firm with me? I really believe that the Holy Spirit guides priests in how to deal with each particular person at each moment.

In case 3, the same is true for many of us. As my current priest explains it, confession removes the rocks (our sins) that the snake (Satan) can hide behind. We are not cured of our passions overnight. It is a process and takes a long time, especially if these passions are ingrained. I confess the same things all the time. I've been told not to be ashamed of that and to not think that I'm not making progress--just keep going to confession and getting everything out.

In case 4, Susannah shouldn't be afraid to give the details if the priest wants them. It may be that the priest needs the details so that he can help her and give her the correct treatment or counsel. He may need to know how deeply she is into the passion. Also, getting these details out and being cleansed of them and knowing that you are loved and forgiven will help in the end. We are often ashamed because of pride or because we're afraid that if the truth was known, nobody would want anything to do with us. I have learned that when I dread going to confession the most that it is when I really need it. I have also found that this is when my priest tends to be the most compassionate with me (they sense the dread, I think).

In case 5, it is important that Freddie confess to his regular spiritual father/priest these sexual sins. First of all, most priest have heard just about everthing. We are supposed to go to one confessor as much as possible so that that confessor truly knows us and can help us to deal with all of our passions. Think how easy it is for our medical conditions to get lost in the shuffle if we are going to many different doctors.

[Akathist]

I feel that I can't give a better response than Katherine just did.

I think that the priest should be told about the past episode of abuse and that she should be very honest about anything that makes her uncomfortable. If she feels she can set some safe boundaries as far as personal space is concerned (to a degree) she may feel safer. Also the priest should understand her better knowing this background.

Authority issues abound! This is a very common sin. But I am a bit confused because I don't confess to my Priest. I confess facing the icon of Christ... my confession is to Him. The Priest is a witness and an advisor and does the sacremental reconciliation prayers, etc. I think the answer is for the guy to admit he has issues with authority and recognize this sin.

I honestly think that most people repeat the same bad habits and same types of sin. To tell on myself, I have yet to go to confession and not have to confess that I have committed the sin of self-pity and not trusting God enough. However, I need to confess this, receive reconciliation and keep working on it. THe danger is to get into the thinking that it is OK to just keep doing the same wrong things over and over again because all one has to do is confess them. It didn't sound like this was the problem in that case you presented, but it is important to mention. We need to work at making changes but realize also that it takes time to grow in virtue.

About the detail thing. I suspect that the Priest has a good reason for doing this and would be compliant with it. I work as a counselor and have had people say to me something general and I could not get a "feel" for the pattern of behavior they were expressing and needed more detail. In my own case, I had a lustful thought about someone and confessed this and my Priest asked me if he needed to know who it was. I told him it was someone in a different church that I visited. That satisfied him. I think he wanted to know if he needed to be aware of a problem that he should pay attention to outside of the confession. (Funny, after this confession, I have not had the same thought about that person ever again.)

About the sexual sin. Well, I doubt the Priest has never heard it before. I was extremely embarrased to mention the lustful thought I had, but at the same time, I know that this is ridiculous because although it is a sin, it is not that uncommon. I believe that my receiving reconciliation is more important than avoiding embarrassment at disclosing something that I have thought or done to a Priest. It may not be fun exposing these negative things about myself. However, the purpose of confession is not to tell one's Priest about our dark natures, but to seek the forgivness of Christ and receive reconciliation with Him through our Priests.

I dread confession. It is the hardest thing. But it is VERY good medicine for my soul. ANd honestly, it has been very good medicine for my psychological health too.

About two men: a priest and a seperate confessor or spiritual director. In my parish, the Priest openly states that we can go to confession with a different Priest if we wish. He is a great Spiritual Director and I can't imagine going elsewhere. However our parish had no Priest at all for a number of years with only visiting Priests coming in for DL once or twice a week. (And not the same Priests each week even.) As a result, some families started driving 90 minutes to a Greek Orthodox Parish just for confession and reconciliation. (We are OCA). They developed a relationship with that Priest and they now still go to him for confession although they attend DL at our church.

THe Priest's wife and children go to confession somewhere else too. (I thought that was the case with all Priest's wife and children though.)

[choirfiend]

You're right, no one has to confess to their own family member, so Matushkas and PKs confess to another priest...it gets much too complicated otherwise.

[Cecilytwin]

Yes, we don't confess to my dad.

[Monica, child of God]

This raises the interesting question of:

What do you TAWers think of the practice of having a parish priest and having a spiritual father as opposed to the practice of having a parish priest/spiritual father?

Ie. two men vs. one?

I am interested in the possibility of a spiritual mother. I have heard that some female monastics are given a blessing to hear confession but the penitent goes to the parish priest for absolution.

My interest is partly because our parish priests do not have a lot of time to give counsel (even via email) and partly because sometimes I think counsel from a woman would be more keen. Of course I don't know for sure. I would guess in countries with more monastic communities, confession in the presence of a monk or nun would be more common than it is in North America.

[NewToLife]

Case 3: Peter repeats sin. He is a habitual sinner. And every single confession he ends up repeating practically the same litany of sins. He almost has the list memorized. [How often have I heard him rant on this theme!] However, he is getting sick and tired of never getting anywhere in his spiritual walk, and feels that he is treading a mire endlessly. He is ashamed to go forward, yet again, to confess the same sins, yet again.

I'd suggest that Peter reads 'Unseen Warfare'. I'd also observe that Peter is probably not unusual, certainly i recognise some of myself in him.

[Akathist]

The Unseen Warfare series is great.... hard to apply but great!

[Vasya Davidovich]

Yes, we don't confess to my dad.
Your dad is a priest?

What jurisdiction?

[Cecilytwin]

Rocor.