Yeshua's birth

[debi b]

Do you believe it was in the fall?

As Luke notes he was "about thirty years old" when he began his public ministry, thus placing his mikvah (baptism) and first public "preaching" in the fall.

Are there some parallel themes with Rosh HaShanah? Could there be a parallel between Elul and his forty days of testing?

[BarbB]

I keep hearing that the shepherds would not have had their flocks in the fields in December. I don't know about fall. Anyway, that tidbit is usually used to argue for a spring birth.

Are there some parallel themes with Rosh HaShanah? Could there be a parallel between Elul and his forty days of testing?

I'm going to need to think about this a bit! Sounds interesting. :)

[Tishri1]

http://www.hatikva.org/articles/birth-of-yeshua-at-sukkot.html

An easy to document, but not well known fact, is the date of the birth of Yeshua. This is done by establishing several things:



The date that Gabriel the angel tells Zechariah, the soon to be father of Yochanan, about his son's birth. (The birth date of Yochanan (John) is established by going forward nine months, the term of pregnancy).
The approximate date of Miriam's (Mary's) conception.
The date of Herod's death.
...

[debi b]

Most of those involved with Messianic Judaism believe that Yeshua was born in the fall.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age…

So then when Luke talks about his age we can approximate the time of the events of the beginning of his public ministry. In light of the themes of the month of Elul and of Rosh HaShanah do you think there may be parallels between the forty days of testing? And the message Yeshua proclaimed after the forty days? “Turn from your sins to God, for the kingdom of heaven is near!”

[Bruce101]

I seen a compelling essay that says Feast of Tabernacles.
That is October 18th this year. Then circumsized eight days later. Can anybody say "Simchat Torah"?
Merry Christmas!

Bruce

[BarbB]

I seen a compelling essay that says Feast of Tabernacles.
That is October 18th this year. Then circumsized eight days later. Can anybody say "Simchat Torah"?
Merry Christmas!

Bruce

Do you have a link to that essay, Bruce?

[visionary]

my favorite is http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm

[P_G]

We comemerate the birth of Y'shua at Sukkot

This year we are having a big do for Sukkot and are inviting several western churches to come celebrate with us (though it will be a day early so we can have private time here durring Sukkot)

Its a grand time - perhaps birthday cake in the Sukkah?

PG

[Henaynei]

at Sukkot...

[Henaynei]

Biblical Dates for Messiah's Conception and Birth (http://www.messianic.com/articles/dates.htm)

[Henaynei]

sukkah center (http://store.yahoo.com/comfort1st/sukkahs.html) ;)

[Tishri1]

Most of those involved with Messianic Judaism believe that Yeshua was born in the fall.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age…

So then when Luke talks about his age we can approximate the time of the events of the beginning of his public ministry. In light of the themes of the month of Elul and of Rosh HaShanah do you think there may be parallels between the forty days of testing? And the message Yeshua proclaimed after the forty days? “Turn from your sins to God, for the kingdom of heaven is near!”and the wedding he went to where he change the water in to wine...is this maybe a chronological time line for the festivals?
1.40 days=Teshuvah in Elul thru Rosh Ha Shannah
2.repentance= Yom Kippur
3. Wedding supper= Sukkot

:clap::clap::clap:

[debi b]

and the wedding he went to where he change the water in to wine...is the a chronological time line for the festivals
1.40 days=Teshuvah in Elul thru Rosh Ha Shannah
2.repentance= Yom Kippur
3. Wedding supper= Sukkot

:clap::clap::clap:

That was just what I was trying to get at - I should never try to start a thread when I am in a hurry :doh: Things just don't come out right :blush:

[Tishri1]

yeh but you think of great revelations when your hungry ! Hey I'm hungry too, what cha cookin?:yum:

[debi b]

Well, I tried a new scone recipe this morning. Wanted to have them ready for Shabbat morn - so hubby needed to try them today :)

[Tishri1]

I just had some Artichoke Hummus..feeling better now:yum:those scones sound great!

[Henaynei]

hoping to make some Babagannouj this weekend - not the Israeli (mayonnaise) version :)

[Torah]

The birth of Yeshua!
The Bible does not give specific date for the birth of the body of Yeshua, nor does it say that anyone celebrated it. However the date can be determined quite closely by data given in the Bible.

The clue is in Luke 1:5, Zechariah father of John the baptizer, was a priest of the division of Abijah. When king David reorganized the priesthood, as related in 1 Chronicles 24, the numerous priests were divided into 24 divisions.

According to Josephus, one division should minister to God at the tmeple for eight days, from Sabbath to Sabbath, with two divisions serving on each Shabbat. Each priest served with his division for eight days, then again six months later for another eight days. All of the priests served during the busy times of the Passover season and Sukkot (Festival of Booths or Tabernacles.) This took care of all the weeks in the year.

Let us take the year 2000-2001, Jewish year 5760-5761, for illustration. Exodus 21 declares Nisan (Abib) the first month of the year.
The division of Abijah was 8th in the order. The first division would start after Moed (Appointed Time) of Passover/Unleavened Bread, which is always Nisan 14-22, corresponding to April 19-27, 2000, a Wednesday through the following Thursday.

Sabbath was April 29, 2000, or Nisan 24, 5760. First Division serves from April 29 through May 6, 2000.

Second Division serves from May 6 through May 13, 2000.
Third Division serves from May 13 through May 20, 2000, and so on until the 8th Division.

The eighth division (of Abijah), with Zechariah on duty, would serve from June 17 through June 24 in the year 2000. During this week an angel appears to Zechariah as he is burning incense in the Temple, and tells him that prayers are answered, that his wife Elizabeth will bear a son, and to call his name John. Read it all in Luke 1!

Zechariah goes home, Elizabeth gets pregnant by the end of June or early July. Nine months later John is born, by the end of March or early April 2001.
Passover/Unleavened Bread is always Nisan 14 – 22, but in 2001, it is April 7-15. So John the baptizer is born at approximately Passover time.

Gabriel tells Miriam that her relative Elizabeth is already 6 months pregnant. Therefore, the Body of Yeshua would be delivered from Miriam about 6 months after John is born.

Six months after Passover on the Jewish calendar is Sukkot, the Festival of Booths or Tabernacles, Tishri 15-23, which corresponds to October 2-10, 2001. All Moadim (Appointed Times, or Festivals from Leviticus 23) go by the Jewish calendar. Sometimes Sukkot is in the latter part of September, as September 25 – October 3, 1999, but never later than October.

Therefore, the body of Yeshua was delivered about the time of Sukkot, September or October!

[MattyJames]

The birth of Yeshua!
The Bible does not give specific date for the birth of the body of Yeshua, nor does it say that anyone celebrated it. However the date can be determined quite closely by data given in the Bible.

The clue is in Luke 1:5, Zechariah father of John the baptizer, was a priest of the division of Abijah. When king David reorganized the priesthood, as related in 1 Chronicles 24, the numerous priests were divided into 24 divisions.

According to Josephus, one division should minister to God at the tmeple for eight days, from Sabbath to Sabbath, with two divisions serving on each Shabbat. Each priest served with his division for eight days, then again six months later for another eight days. All of the priests served during the busy times of the Passover season and Sukkot (Festival of Booths or Tabernacles.) This took care of all the weeks in the year.

Let us take the year 2000-2001, Jewish year 5760-5761, for illustration. Exodus 21 declares Nisan (Abib) the first month of the year.
The division of Abijah was 8th in the order. The first division would start after Moed (Appointed Time) of Passover/Unleavened Bread, which is always Nisan 14-22, corresponding to April 19-27, 2000, a Wednesday through the following Thursday.

Sabbath was April 29, 2000, or Nisan 24, 5760. First Division serves from April 29 through May 6, 2000.

Second Division serves from May 6 through May 13, 2000.
Third Division serves from May 13 through May 20, 2000, and so on until the 8th Division.

The eighth division (of Abijah), with Zechariah on duty, would serve from June 17 through June 24 in the year 2000. During this week an angel appears to Zechariah as he is burning incense in the Temple, and tells him that prayers are answered, that his wife Elizabeth will bear a son, and to call his name John. Read it all in Luke 1!

Zechariah goes home, Elizabeth gets pregnant by the end of June or early July. Nine months later John is born, by the end of March or early April 2001.
Passover/Unleavened Bread is always Nisan 14 – 22, but in 2001, it is April 7-15. So John the baptizer is born at approximately Passover time.

Gabriel tells Miriam that her relative Elizabeth is already 6 months pregnant. Therefore, the Body of Yeshua would be delivered from Miriam about 6 months after John is born.

Six months after Passover on the Jewish calendar is Sukkot, the Festival of Booths or Tabernacles, Tishri 15-23, which corresponds to October 2-10, 2001. All Moadim (Appointed Times, or Festivals from Leviticus 23) go by the Jewish calendar. Sometimes Sukkot is in the latter part of September, as September 25 – October 3, 1999, but never later than October.

Therefore, the body of Yeshua was delivered about the time of Sukkot, September or October!

Yeh...thats what we've always believed as well. Although this is in much more depth. Thanks Torah, I will take this one the the Congregation.

Matt James

[Charles YTK]

The birth of Messiah.

Tabernacles not Christmas.




(http://www.yeshuatheking.com/Tabernacles%20not%20Christmas.html)

[Rut]

Can I join the chat? I know I`m not a Messianic like you are :blush: and I agree with Torah.I have seen that in the Bible:) I want only to say something more

[Charles YTK]

Speak on RUT

[plum]

bumpity bump bump! may need to bump it again at sukkot

[Steve Petersen]

I keep hearing that the shepherds would not have had their flocks in the fields in December. I don't know about fall. Anyway, that tidbit is usually used to argue for a spring birth.



I'm going to need to think about this a bit! Sounds interesting. :)

Here's an interesting bit of info from Edersheim:

"And yet Jewish tradition may here prove both illustrative and helpful. That the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, was a settled conviction. Equally so, was the belief , that He was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, 'the tower of the flock.' This Migdal Eder was not the watchtower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the barren sheepground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to Jerusalem. A passage in the Mishnah leads to the conclusion, that the flocks, which pastured there, were destined for Temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds. The latter were under the ban of Rabbinism, on account of their necessary isolation from religious ordinances, and their manner of life, which rendered strict legal observance unlikely, if not absolutely impossible. The same Mishnaic passage also leads us to infer, that these flocks lay out all the year round, since they are spoken of as in the fields thirty days before the Passover -- that is, in the month of February, when in Palestine the average rainfall is nearly greatest. Thus, Jewish tradition in some dim manner apprehended the first revelation of the Messiah from that Migdal Eder, where shepherds watched the Temple-flocks all the year round. Of the deep symbolic significance of such a coincidence, it is needless to speak". (Afred Edersheim in The Life and Times of Jesus The Messiah, p186-187)

Rachel died and was buried near Bethlehem, then Jacob camped near Migdal Eder (Gen. 35:21.)

Then there is this prophecy in Micah:

Micah 4:8-9 (KJV) And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.