Alpha Course

[Castlelight2]

I'd like to get some opinions on the Alpha Course that will be started at our church this week. Anyone been thru it or know anything about it? Ours was a UCC church until week before last when the congregation voted to leave the UCC...Where to now?

[New_Wineskin]

I don't know much about it . But , I have heard it being used as a tool to indoctrinate people to a group . I just went to the site . It appears to be a typical IC thing . I attempted to look at the information online . I couldn't fins anything . I find it suspect to only allow the information to be presented outside . They have a website , why not use it and show the info . They claimed that it was "free" .

[Castlelight2]

I've been to the site...and done some research on it online....I'm finding alot of negative...talk of speaking in tongues...and only being filled with the Holy Spirit after "searching for it"... It is making we wary of being part of the program....

[New_Wineskin]

I've been to the site...and done some research on it online....I'm finding alot of negative...talk of speaking in tongues...and only being filled with the Holy Spirit after "searching for it"... It is making we wary of being part of the program....

That is interesting . I knew some charasmatics who were going to use it for their nondenom . I didn't hear them say anything . But , if you are "teaching" the course , you can skip or add to it anyway you wish .

[discernomatic]

I have also heard some negative things about Alpha Course. Last year I went to an ecumenical gathering at Stuttgart. Nicky Gumbel was one of the speakers. Everyone else was giving speeches about peace and unity, the usual stuff, but Nicky Gumbel stuck out like a sore thumb. His speech was primarily about how great Alpha Course is, it sounded like a sales pitch and did not fit into the program. When I saw his name on the list upon arriving I was puzzled, his speech confirmed my doubts.

Here is one article by Chris Hand: http://www.intotruth.org/misc/alpha.html .

And another by Tricia Tillin: http://www.intotruth.org/ms/ms2962.html .

The course has a Pentecostal/Charismatic slant to it.
There is even a Catholic office for Alpha Course.

If you decide to take the course anyway (which I would not recommend) I suggest you read the articles listed above and keep them in the back of your mind at the same time. Keep your mind clear to observe, do not just feel what is going on around you.

[M Paul]

I've been to the site...and done some research on it online....I'm finding alot of negative...talk of speaking in tongues...and only being filled with the Holy Spirit after "searching for it"... It is making we wary of being part of the program....

So, are you saying that being Pentecostal is an extremely negative thing ("a lot of negative") and wearisome??? Is that just in the house churches or everywhere??

Oh, I just looked at a link posted by discernomatic. Are you, perhaps, trying to associate a liberal and unorthodox group with Pentecostals and Charismatics?? Is your interest really in exploring the group, or in using it for an association that accomplishes other objectives--in letting us know what is negative and why??


Regards,

Paul

[Castlelight2]

I'm just trying to find out anything I can about the origins of the course before i take it and make sure that it is in sound as far as the actual teachings of the Bible. When i said "negative" I mean't that i was finding negative articles on the web...not negative being associated with Pentecotals.

[New_Wineskin]

I have also heard some negative things about Alpha Course. Last year I went to an ecumenical gathering at Stuttgart. Nicky Gumbel was one of the speakers. Everyone else was giving speeches about peace and unity, the usual stuff, but Nicky Gumbel stuck out like a sore thumb. His speech was primarily about how great Alpha Course is, it sounded like a sales pitch and did not fit into the program. When I saw his name on the list upon arriving I was puzzled, his speech confirmed my doubts.

Here is one article by Chris Hand: http://www.intotruth.org/misc/alpha.html .

And another by Tricia Tillin: http://www.intotruth.org/ms/ms2962.html .

The course has a Pentecostal/Charismatic slant to it.
There is even a Catholic office for Alpha Course.

If you decide to take the course anyway (which I would not recommend) I suggest you read the articles listed above and keep them in the back of your mind at the same time. Keep your mind clear to observe, do not just feel what is going on around you.

In the first article , the author attacks the Alpha course because they don't use the same emphasis as themselves . They don't point out anything wrong - only that the author would do it differently themselves and so claims that it is a false religion . So , that first article is a bit sad .

In the second article , it appears that the group using the course is doing what I mentioned in a previous post . They are using the course but are tailoring it to their group's specific doctrines .

[SNPete]

I'd like to get some opinions on the Alpha Course that will be started at our church this week. Anyone been thru it or know anything about it? Ours was a UCC church until week before last when the congregation voted to leave the UCC...Where to now?
Unlike the other posters, I actually saw the entire series. It consists of 12, one hour, tapes designed to educate the new believer. Even the mature Christian will enjoy the series found it to be a powerful tool to either lead a person to Christ in tape one or educate the young Christian regarding the truths of the faith. I highly recommend the Alpha series.



Nicky Gumbel started out as a lawyer/barrister and became an Anglican minister. He presents Biblical truths in a manner that is both to the point and funny. By funny, I mean with respectful and powerful humor. He destroys misconceptions about the faith with the skill of an excellent trial lawyer. He argues the case for Christ in an excellent manner.



To those who feel the gift of tongues or healing are not for today one may want to skip the tape that touches on those topics. On the other hand, you may wish to explore this issue with an open mind. See what the man has to say and consider.



By the same token, people who are uncomfortable about the idea of real and personal devil may want to skip that section of the series. ;)



Each tape stands alone as a wonderful educational experience. :thumbsup:

[M Paul]

I'm just trying to find out anything I can about the origins of the course before i take it and make sure that it is in sound as far as the actual teachings of the Bible. When i said "negative" I mean't that i was finding negative articles on the web...not negative being associated with Pentecotals.

Of course--that would be it. Especially since traditionally Pentecostals believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, and that salvation comes by a blood covenant through Christ; and those Christians who preach Pentecostals are not orthodox do so, by maintaining that speaking in tongues indicates consorting with demons, which cancels out their blood covenant as being genuine--but we know the Bible does not say that--it says false teachers are known by changing the concept of who Christ is, and by not accepting him as a matter of faith.

Thank you for clarifying what your post meant.

Regards,

Paul

[meredithnz]

I just finished Alpha last night and it was awesome. I am a bit confused as to what people have said earlier about speaking in tounges...doesn't it clearly say in the bible that this is one of God's gift, even though it is a lesser gift????

[M Paul]

I just finished Alpha last night and it was awesome. I am a bit confused as to what people have said earlier about speaking in tounges...doesn't it clearly say in the bible that this is one of God's gift, even though it is a lesser gift????

Some Christians believe so, and some don't. It's a theological question. This forum is supposed to be about the unchurched and home church, and Christians from those groups can believe in tongues or not. I hope we can keep this section for a review of issues involving the home church or unchurched Christians, rather than moving on to debates in theology, and making the true discussion hard to follow. But I know where you are coming from.

If you are not aware of the prejudice in the Christian community against Pentecostals because they speak in tongues, you should try to become familiar with the fact that it exists and at times you will have to deal with it. However, it's all a very long subject, that began with Calvin holding that the power of God ceased after the church was established, and that believing in the miraculous power of God is a Catholic trick to deceive people--and then it goes on and on. Calvin was a great scholar, and he believed God guides people through scholarship.

Your brother in Christ,

Paul

[Mikecpking]

Having led 10+ alpha courses, I have seen many people come to know Jesus. I recommend it to anyone who wants to investigate Chrisatianity.

[Naomi4Christ]

I'd like to get some opinions on the Alpha Course that will be started at our church this week. Anyone been thru it or know anything about it? Ours was a UCC church until week before last when the congregation voted to leave the UCC...Where to now?

I'm an Alpha Course administrator. I've been through it many, many times over the last 10 years. I love it.

[Naomi4Christ]

I don't know much about it . But , I have heard it being used as a tool to indoctrinate people to a group . I just went to the site . It appears to be a typical IC thing . I attempted to look at the information online . I couldn't fins anything . I find it suspect to only allow the information to be presented outside . They have a website , why not use it and show the info . They claimed that it was "free" .

Not sure what you mean. I think there is a lot of copyright protection on the 'brand' because they don't want people creating their own cultish stuff and marketing as Alpha.

As for the the theology, it the theology that the main churches agree on. It's a pre-catechetical course.

If you want to know something specific, let me know.

[Naomi4Christ]

That is interesting . I knew some charasmatics who were going to use it for their nondenom . I didn't hear them say anything . But , if you are "teaching" the course , you can skip or add to it anyway you wish .

Nope - the conditions of using the Alpha materials and name is that you stick to the course as it is.

[New_Wineskin]

Nope - the conditions of using the Alpha materials and name is that you stick to the course as it is.

Th site itself states that more than one course exists . And , another poster wrote that they could skip over the P/C stuff .

[New_Wineskin]

Not sure what you mean. I think there is a lot of copyright protection on the 'brand' because they don't want people creating their own cultish stuff and marketing as Alpha.

As for the the theology, it the theology that the main churches agree on. It's a pre-catechetical course.

If you want to know something specific, let me know.

Items mentioned on the site are beyond pre-catechetical . There is one item that implies group attendance ( ie denominational ) . Another is about evangelizing . Perhaps you could provide a link to where they outline with a brief explanation on the categories . I couldn't find a link at their site .

I just came back from the site once again . No detailed information on what is included in the course nor on their slant . Far too secretive for me . That is enough to warn others . Cults do this type of thing . "Come to our meetings to find out ." Perhaps , the site is just not organized in an efficient manner .

[Naomi4Christ]

Th site itself states that more than one course exists . And , another poster wrote that they could skip over the P/C stuff .

The variations on Alpha, such as student Alpha, youth Alpha, prison Alpha, lunchtime Alpha, morning Alpha and Alpha for retired people all come from HTB.

[Naomi4Christ]

Items mentioned on the site are beyond pre-catechetical . There is one item that implies group attendance ( ie denominational ) . Another is about evangelizing . Perhaps you could provide a link to where they outline with a brief explanation on the categories . I couldn't find a link at their site .

There's nothing about denominationalism on the course, even in the section entitled, "What about the Church?". Telling others is a basic part of Christianity - is there a church that doesn't believe this?

http://alphacourse.org/welcome/whatisit/index.htm

[New_Wineskin]

The variations on Alpha, such as student Alpha, youth Alpha, prison Alpha, lunchtime Alpha, morning Alpha and Alpha for retired people all come from HTB.

I edited my post .

[New_Wineskin]

There's nothing about denominationalism on the course, even in the section entitled, "What about the Church?".


By refusing to define the term and by giving denominational variations , it is about denomination . The typical idea behind "What about church" is about attendance . By not defining the concept , they know people will concider that is what that topic concerns .


Telling others is a basic part of Christianity - is there a church that doesn't believe this?

http://alphacourse.org/welcome/whatisit/index.htm
You stated that it was pre-catechism . That is not a pre-catechism concept .

[Naomi4Christ]

You have to remember that it is Church of England, so it's never going to be too outrageous.

If you are interested, you come. If you don't like it, you leave - no one is going to call you up and hassle you to come back.

[Naomi4Christ]

By refusing to define the term and by giving denominational variations , it is about denomination . The typical idea behind "What about church" is about attendance . By not defining the concept , they know people will concider that is what that topic concerns .


Telling others is a basic part of Christianity - is there a church that doesn't believe this?

http://alphacourse.org/welcome/whatisit/index.htm
You stated that it was pre-catechism . That is not a pre-catechism concept .

Pre-catechetical is what I said. The reason it doesn't give denominational variation is because that's what you get into after Alpha. Alpha is just the start of the Christian journey. The section "What about the Church" is about being part of a Christian community so that you can build your faith in the fellowship of other Christians - to be part of the Body of Christ.

[New_Wineskin]

You have to remember that it is Church of England, so it's never going to be too outrageous.


I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .


If you are interested, you come. If you don't like it, you leave - no one is going to call you up and hassle you to come back.

Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Why the secrecy ? That is a red flag to me .

[New_Wineskin]

Pre-catechetical is what I said.


I know . That is what I said that you said . It isn't .


The reason it doesn't give denominational variation is because that's what you get into after Alpha.


The site states that there was a different denominational course for Catholics and implies a different one to a few other denominations . Perhaps , it was the wording .



Alpha is just the start of the Christian journey. The section "What about the Church" is about being part of a Christian community so that you can build your faith in the fellowship of other Christians - to be part of the Body of Christ.

There was no mention on the site about *what* it meant . And , your statement could also be construed as meaning that specific group attendance is a basic part of being a Christian . And , that is denominationalism . That is from where I am coming .

[New_Wineskin]

I came from that link . That page is why I asked for more detailed general outline . That only states certain topics but not what they mean by them or a basic understanding of their approach to those topics .

[Naomi4Christ]

I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .

Holy Trinity Brompton is a Church of England church. The course started up as a Christian basics course for use within their own church. The course spread to other Anglican churches about 15 years ago, and was then found to have more broad appeal within the UK so they started advertising it. Shortly afterwards, it spread around the world. So, the doctrine is very much in line with the Church of England, but I don't think there is anything really that other denominations would object to. It does not discuss things like infant baptism which may be objected to by some churches, for example.

Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Sitting down and having a meal together is basic Christian hospitality. There is no ulterior motive other than to say to people that Christians are normal, happy people, who are not weird. The Alpha Course starts of with the Alpha Supper, where the food is a bit grander than usual, and the talk very brief - it's called Christianity - Boring, Irrelevent, Untrue? - and it's just an introduction to the course. It invites you to join the course if you want to find out more. The course proper doesn't start until the next session - there is absolutely no obligation to keep coming. But that is the introduction to the course, without any secrecy.

[Naomi4Christ]

I came from that link . That page is why I asked for more detailed general outline . That only states certain topics but not what they mean by them or a basic understanding of their approach to those topics .

If you want to know more than is on that page, let me know.

[New_Wineskin]

I see that this *could* become heated .

You like the course . I consider their main site to be secretive . Many who are "unchurched" have come from manipulative and even cultish groups . Some of us don't like to leap into things without a good heads-up . It may not be the intent to be secretive . But , I wouldn't suggest to someone to take the chance .

[Naomi4Christ]

I certainly don't want to get into a debate on this, and aware that it would be inappropriate for me to do so.

But I am happy to clarify anything and answer questions about the course.

[New_Wineskin]

Holy Trinity Brompton is a Church of England church. The course started up as a Christian basics course for use within their own church. The course spread to other Anglican churches about 15 years ago, and was then found to have more broad appeal within the UK so they started advertising it. Shortly afterwards, it spread around the world. So, the doctrine is very much in line with the Church of England, but I don't think there is anything really that other denominations would object to. It does not discuss things like infant baptism which may be objected to by some churches, for example.



Sitting down and having a meal together is basic Christian hospitality. There is no ulterior motive other than to say to people that Christians are normal, happy people, who are not weird. The Alpha Course starts of with the Alpha Supper, where the food is a bit grander than usual, and the talk very brief - it's called Christianity - Boring, Irrelevent, Untrue? - and it's just an introduction to the course. It invites you to join the course if you want to find out more. The course proper doesn't start until the next session - there is absolutely no obligation to keep coming. But that is the introduction to the course, without any secrecy.

Ok . Thanks , for the info . :)

I see what you are saying .

[Naomi4Christ]

One more thing about cultish stuff (and I admit to not knowing a lot about this), but Alpha is a course that is run by churches. It is not a church in its own right. When you do the course, and if you give your life to Christ, it's likely that you will simply keep going to that church - so to that extent you know a little of what you are getting into. Even if the Alpha course is taking place in a pub, it should be clear to you that this is the initiative of a local church.

[Naomi4Christ]

Ok . Thanks , for the info . :)

No probs! :)

[SNPete]

I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .



Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Why the secrecy ? That is a red flag to me .Dang it man. It is simply a tape series on the basics of the faith.

I suggest that you view it before making speculative judgments on Its content. Must it line up perfectly with your doctrinal view to be not of the devil?

None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40

[discernomatic]

None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40
The problem is the doctrine. There is always the possibility of a new program that spreads a false gospel. I will check the Alpha course out by taking it at the next opportunity and will write a full report of my findings. But having been deceived in the past by seemingly innocuous doctrines and messages, I am wary about all new programs. Each one must be scrutinized carefully according to Scripture. The gospel is very basic, it generally does not take long to find out if a new gimmick or program is conforming to it or not. The problem is that most people are trying to compare these programs to man-made doctrines, however biblically based they might be. Usually where there is smoke there is fire. Some that I see as very discerning people have written critiques about the Alpha Course, and usually they are not far off from reason and sound doctrine. That is why I will check it out for myself. But I do not recommend this to any that have not trained themselves at least somewhat in discernment. Going naively into such a situation would be irresponsible.

[New_Wineskin]

Dang it man. It is simply a tape series on the basics of the faith.

I suggest that you view it before making speculative judgments on Its content. Must it line up perfectly with your doctrinal view to be not of the devil?


And , I suggest that you follow your own suggestion ( and thus being free of hypocracy ) by viewing my posts before making judgements . And , must *my* posts line up with *your* doctrinal view to be not of the devil ?:confused:

If you read my post that you quoted , you would see that my problem is that they *won't* allow it to be viewed first . Yet , you suggest viewing it first .



None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40

You just contradicted yourself . In order to know of "churchs" that "do a good work" , you already judged them as doing so .

How can you know if it is on the basics of "the faith" before you go to one ? That was my question . The site does not give enough information - it is too secretive , imo . Others may not have a problem with that . But , I have known cults that do this type of thing . I have a right to be cautious .

[SNPete]

And , I suggest that you follow your own suggestion ( and thus being free of hypocracy ) by viewing my posts before making judgements . And , must *my* posts line up with *your* doctrinal view to be not of the devil ?:confused:

If you read my post that you quoted , you would see that my problem is that they *won't* allow it to be viewed first . Yet , you suggest viewing it first .




You just contradicted yourself . In order to know of "churchs" that "do a good work" , you already judged them as doing so .

How can you know if it is on the basics of "the faith" before you go to one ? That was my question . The site does not give enough information - it is too secretive , imo . Others may not have a problem with that . But , I have known cults that do this type of thing . I have a right to be cautious .I am not judging you. I am very flexable on nonesential doctrine. As a matter of fact, I get very annoyed at folks who say I must agree with them 100% or be of the devil. So I apologized for any unintended offense.

Um, one suggestion re viewing the series. You may be able to find a church in your area that is conducting the Alpha series in your town. You don't know me or where I stand, but with that said, I have found the Alpha series to be one of the better outreach series. Solid doctrine and with appropiate British humor. Funny and to the point.

Re the cult issue. Well, the Anglican Church is not a cult.

[Naomi4Christ]

The problem is the doctrine. There is always the possibility of a new program that spreads a false gospel.

The course was started within a Church of England parish. The only non-biblical doctrine for Anglicans is the doctrine of the Trinity. It is fairly safe, I think. The Anglican doctrinal position is one of the reasons why the course works so well within other denominations, because there isn't really anything added onto it that other churches could object to.

The main objections to the Alpha Course from some Church of England churches is that they feel that there is too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit. But that's from the church-reticent wing of the Church of England, so not surprising.

The thing about Catholic Alpha is, in my personal opinion, the 'not invented here' syndrome. The RCC would not endorse the course without some of their own input on it. I've never been on Catholic Alpha, but I think that it is much the same as regular Alpha with a couple of extra sessions to be a bridge between Alpha and Rite of Catholic Iniatiation for Adults. I don't think Protestant churches, including Anglican churches, have anything as formal as this kind of preparation to become a member/communicant of the church, so for Alpha folks just blend into the life of the churches they join (hopefully with appropriate discipleship learning).

[New_Wineskin]

I am not judging you. I am very flexable on nonesential doctrine. As a matter of fact, I get very annoyed at folks who say I must agree with them 100% or be of the devil. So I apologized for any unintended offense.


I came in to re-edit my post in case you didn't respond as of yet . I was flustered yesterday since I thought that I was through with that portion of my thought . I also do not like people telling me what to think but allow them to do so .


Um, one suggestion re viewing the series. You may be able to find a church in your area that is conducting the Alpha series in your town. You don't know me or where I stand, but with that said, I have found the Alpha series to be one of the better outreach series. Solid doctrine and with appropiate British humor. Funny and to the point.


Ok . Thanks . :)



Re the cult issue. Well, the Anglican Church is not a cult.

Yeah . That was a sticking point somewhere in this thread .