Are you a Christian? - continuation thread

[CoffeeSwirls]

The churches helping survivors from the hurricanes don't seem to be arguing one way or another right now, do they? Difficult times have a way of grounding the church in what truly matters.

Tell me, do you believe that some remote tribe in the jungles of Africa that could be first discovered tomorrow has had an opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ? Natural revelation has the power only to condemn. That is why we are called to go to every tribe, tongue and nation to proclaim the gospel.

[Fatty]

The churches helping survivors from the hurricanes don't seem to be arguing one way or another right now, do they? Difficult times have a way of grounding the church in what truly matters.

That is a true fact! I only wish that we all, as the body of Christ would consider every moment, of every day as difficult times, and cease arguing over unimportant doctrinal issues altogether, and focus all of our Spiritual, and physical energy on what truly matters most of all: The Lost, and the hurting.


Tell me, do you believe that some remote tribe in the jungles of Africa that could be first discovered tomorrow has had an opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ? Natural revelation has the power only to condemn. That is why we are called to go to every tribe, tongue and nation to proclaim the gospel.

This is what I believe. If someone, male, or female, is called, by God, to go forth as a missionary, to go to the nations of the earth, declaring, without apology, and without compromise, the uncompromised, life changing, full Gospel message of the cross Of Jesus Christ, God, by the Holy Ghost, will empower, and equip that person to fulfill that calling.

And having been fully equipped, and empowered by the Holy Ghost to declare that message of truth, and Love, and Hope, and assurance of an opportunity to receive the gift of Gods saving grace through Jesus Christ, by faith, even the most hetahen, of the heathen can be saved and have the absolute assurance that they can and will spend eternity in heaven.

God is no respector of persons, with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible, and if believers have faith (Mark 9:23) all things are possible to them that believe!

Our problem is we have been taught, through predestination (Election) that God Desires that only certain ones be saved, and all others be condemnned, but it is Gods desire that ALL be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth, he knows that not everyone who hears the message will accept the gift being offered to them, and that these will eventuallu end up in hell for all eternity, BUT God also knows that many will accept the gift of salvation, and he also knows that many will NOT go forth as his witnesses to tell the lost about Jesus, and because of this rebellion, many, who would have accepted the offer of the gift of salvation, will never hear that message, and will die and go to hell forever.

And for that rebellion, many will be held accountable when standing before the great white judgment seat of Christ Jesus......:prayer:

[CoffeeSwirls]

What is the difference from one person who accepts what they year and another who does not? Was one more receptive than the other? Was the one smarter? Did one hear the gospel preached more forcefully than the other? I say that both came in blind and one had their eyes opened by God and the other did not.

[CoffeeSwirls]

I agree that we need to obey the word of God. The part that I disagree with is this:

First of all God has already pre-determine that anyone, and everyone, anywhere and everywhere is to be given an equal opportunity to hear the Gospel message.

This is something that has not happened in the past and is not happening in the present. There are people dying without ever hearing the name of Christ. That is why we go!

[CoffeeSwirls]

Romans 10
14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

This may come down to what truths need to be believed to be saved. Do you need to know about the penalty placed upon Christ? Do you need to know that he rose again? Are these things that one can determine on their own without being told? I say no.

[CoffeeSwirls]

So what you are saying is; we, as the servants of Jesus Christ, are NOT required by the word of God to go and preach the Gospel to every person everywhere, is that correct?

That is wrong, we are obligated by the commandment of God to witness to the lost.

You're right, no person can believe on their own, BUT they can believe if they are witnessed to!

No, what I am saying is that there are unreached people that we need to witness to. There are people who have died without ever hearing. I believe you denied that fact earlier. Not everyone has heard the gospel.

[CoffeeSwirls]

Amen. There is no such thing as a unreachable person and there is no such thing as a closed border. I have on mp3 a sermon by John Piper, called Doing Missions When Dying Is Gain (http://www.coffeeswirls.com/audio/Doing%20Missions%20When%20Dying%20Is%20Gain.mp3)

You can listen to it by clicking the link. Odd, now this post is coming out bold and I can't turn it off. OK, just know that I'm not yelling here. :sorry:

I have managed to compress the file down to 11.1 MB without significant loss to the quality of the recording. The sermon itself is 48 minutes, 49 seconds, but the time will pass quickly. This sermon is Piper at his best, and I wish the sermon was much longer. I do ask that you right click on the link in case you want to listen to it again. It is a good enough sermon that you likely will want to listen to it frequently.

A good sermon is like a productive study in the word. It changes you. It changes your outlook on life. It causes you to want to conform to the will of God in all things. This is such a sermon. Please download it and listen to it. Please pray over the points in the sermon, that God would move your heart toward missions, whether you decide to go into the field, want to be bolder in your personal evangelism, or more trusting that God will provide for your needs as you support those missionaries who leave everything behind for the joy of the gospel message, only to look back years later and insist that they never missed a thing.

[CoffeeSwirls]

Oh, but just after the shocking statement comes the support for it, and the Biblical and historical fact that the blood of the saints is how the gospel spreads across the whole world. A year or two later, the children of these missionaries went to the same tribe and the tribe realized that any message worth dying for and worth risking all for us a message they should hear out.

Rev 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

God has a number of people destined to be martyred for their faith. Peter and Paul were both told that they would learn to suffer for the name. All but one of the apostles died a horrific death. The stoning of Stephen ignited a scattering of Christians, who spread the gospel all over the known world. If God is sovereign and if He has decreed that there would be people who would leave their blood to witness to all the Earth the value of Christ, then in a sense you could say that His will played a part in this death.

I want to have a faith that will cause me to rejoice at being found worthy to suffer for the name, just as Peter and John did. I want to know that any thorn in the flesh only makes me lean on God all the more. Christianity as it is taught in most of the churches in North America is an abomination of comfort and psycho/emotional felt needs. Comfort and happiness is the promise placed before those who gather. This does not mirror the Biblical accounts or the historical accounts. When Christianity doesn't cost a person anything at all, there is no witness. When it costs a person everything, the world takes notice.

It's no wonder the world only notices Christianity during an election year in the states. Other than our numbers, we are irrelevant. For all of the means at our disposal, we do not touch the lives of people with any solution they can't find elsewhere.

God showed the Aucas how much Nate Saint would suffer for the name of Christ and that day was blessed when the gospel was next preached to them. I found a page on the Baptist Press about this: http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=21347

The title of this thread is "Are You a Christian." I view a Christian as one who is being conformed to the image of Christ. Some of us will have to be put to death by sinful men for the joy set before us, others will not. This message breaks my heart as well, but the story does not end with missionaries being speared on a beach. It ends with many of those tribesmen in glory right alongside them, all because they modelled the infinate value of the gospel and the love needed to share it with them.

[Beoga]

BUT God himself, did NOT murder those missionaries, God had Nothing whatsoever to do with their deaths, satan killed them, blaming God for satans work is the greatest blasphemy there is, in fact, it is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, which is an unpardonable sin, Jesus said it was in Matthew chapter 12.

God is not a murderer, of course he is aware of everything that will happen, but it is NOT his will for his servants (whom he loves) to be violently and viciously murdered......

:eek:
Any Scriptural proof to back up the idea that it is Satan that takes the life away from someone and not God?
I would say that attributing the work of God to Satan is another great blasphemy.

[CoffeeSwirls]

Is God sovereign? That is, must everything that happens be something He allows?
Is God omniscient? Does He know everything?

If the answer to both of those questions is "yes" than God allowed this to happen and everything that God allows will be to His ultimate glory. Now, if God both knows and allows all thing that happen, can one assume that God proactively causes such things that will bring Him the greatest glory to happen? A Calvinist will say that yes, He does. That is a large pill for some to swallow, and I took that pill sideways, but I am all the better for it. Because I know that God has prepared the events in my life, and because I trust Him, I can take my next step confidantly. I don't know what tomorrow brings, but I do know that God is shaping me for it today.

[Robbie_James_Francis]

:scratch:

[Behe's Boy]

God had Nothing whatsoever to do with their deaths....

Sounds pretty arminean to me...

[JJB]

Fatty,

You are missing out on a wondeful sermon. Don't shut down because of one difficulty. Persevere through it so you can hear the wonderful message to Go and Make Disciples of All Nations.

I would encourage you to listen to it particularly since you have a heart for the lost. There will be other parts of the sermon you can glean from. I've listened to that sermon more than once. It will encourage you as you seek the Lord to do his will.

Blessings to you,
JJB

[CoffeeSwirls]

Out of curiosity, do you consider every instance of the willfull killing of a human as murder? That is what I'm hearing here, and if so, we do have a different outlook on such things.

[Beoga]

John 10:10, proof enough, especially since God himself said it!

God never murders anyone, never has, never will.

God has turned the wicked over to satan for the destruction of their flesh, at the hand of satan many times, but God himself has never once killed, or murdered anyone at anytime, and he never will.

I have never once attributed the work of God to satan, that is as ludicrous, and as false an accusation as anyone could ever make.

Please explain how verse 10 is talking about physical life.

[Jon_]

No I do not consider each loss of the life of a human being as an act of murder, and even then God never MURDERS, that act can always at all times be rightly ttributed to satan the event in question was murder, there is absolutely no question about that.

God is NOT a murderer.

God did not cause the death of those missionaries, he never approved of their murders, and he certainly did not have a part in those deaths.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, if you place the responsibility for the murders of those missionaries on God, then we are indeed in total disagreement, I will not condemn God as a murderer, I love him far too much to do that.
Well, God certainly doesn't murder, as murder is morally wrong. But he certainly kills:
(1 Ch. 10:13, 14 AV) So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; 14) And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
Here, the author clearly ascribes the death of Saul (remember, he committed suicide) to the hand of the Lord ("therefore he slew him").

Can't argue with Scripture.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

[oworm]

in fact God does not kill, satan does, :)

Who killed Ananias and his wife in Acts 5:1-11?

[edb19]

Either God controls all things, including the power of life and death, or He doesn't. But if we say He doesn't, that these things are outside of His providence, then we're diminishing Him.

I didn't listen to the mp3 that prompted this discussion. But consider the case of Nate Saint, Jim Elliot and the other missionaries killed in Ecuador in 1956. Family members of the murdered men went back to the village, established a church and many in the same tribe were converted.

History is full of Christian martyrs. God uses each and everyone of them to advance His church and to ultimately bring glory to Himself.

[StAnselm]

[StAnselm]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been split, and the primary discussion trashed.

Rule 1.5 clearly states: You will not directly state or otherwise imply that another member is not a Christian if they are considered “Christian” according to Rule 6 of these forums.

Hence, we will not allow discussion concerning whether or Arminians (or Catholics) are regenerate.

The secondary discussion can continue. Please carry on.
MOD HAT OFF

[StAnselm]

MOD HAT ON

Just to clarify, the discussion about John Piper, unreached people and whether or not God kills people was all fine. Under Rule 1.5, however, it's not appropriate to discuss whether Arminians are regenerate.

MOD HAT OFF

[Rick Otto]

I agree with the Mod by the simple fact that only God knows, & our salvation doesn't depend upon an intellectual or verbal work of articulation. All I knew before I (was) stumbled across reformed doctrine, was how much my love (http://216.130.188.200/cgi-bin/ezlclk.fcgi?id=9759)for Jesus conflicted with every Arminian tradition offered, at some point down the road (http://[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].com/new/[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].php?uid=74957&ezid=122377&elid=9918#do_redir).

I'm "Calvinist" as far as the TULIP goes, but I have reservations about Calvin's ecclesiology, especialy in the area of discipline. =)

If you see me in heaven, you'll hear a lot of "Who (http://[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].com/new/[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].php?uid=74957&ezid=122301&elid=9842#do_redir) knew?" & see some shock (http://[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].com/new/[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].php?uid=74957&ezid=122957&elid=10498#do_redir) & surprise, but I got a grip on this TULIP(these doctrines).:cool:
That's NOT what I'm countin' on, though.

[reformedfan]

and cease arguing over unimportant doctrinal issues altogether,

doctrine is important, for how a person lives post conversion is dictated by their theolgy. The command is to disciple the nations, and this is where doctrine & theology continue to be critically important

[reformedfan]

a person's life flows from his theology. Someone that thinks evangelism is a waste of time isn't going to evangelize; someone who believes their church has a lock on the truth is going to present the 'my church Gospel'; someone who believes that man is basically good, is gonna tone down the Gospel in order not to insult people's intellects; etc.

Doctrine is crucial. It dictates a person's thoughts & actions. It is therefore essential that the doctrine be good & sound, unlike modern stuff based on dilluted heresies

[reformedfan]

You yourself have stated, in another post, in this thread, or anohter similar thread, that you do not believe Arminians have the right to be acknowledged as brethren.

oh my stars, you have SO gotten me confused with someone else!! I was correcting someone else's assertions on that topic! I have said many times, many places the opposite, that it is Christ's blood that justifies a sinner- nothing else. Not works, not proper theology, Christ's propitiationary atonement.

Is this NOT you insinuating thay your church has the one and only LOCK on the truth?

Is this NOT you presenting a MY Church Gospel?

I believe it is.

no, in fact, it is on my list of 'wrong heresies to be avoided thru good doctrine'. hypercalvinism, hyper arminianism, social gospel: you are jumping to conclusions based on whatever your theology is: intolerance of Calvinists, mebbe? ;)



Doctrine has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with witnessing to a lost person about Jesus Christ. duh, i said it was critical in discipleship. It can beuseful in evangelism, but not if it is presented as the way of salvation.

I have never once spoken to a lost person and told them that they had be an Arminian to be saved, or a Calvinist to truly be born again.

I have never once said to any lost person that I have witnessed to that they have to become a member of a certain denomination, or attend a specific church to be a Christian.

These things have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether a person is TRULY a Christian, they are unimportant. there are some (not me) that disagree with you. He is here posting in this thread too. so i'll use the quote feature from now on, since you are confused by my posts.

The lost are witnessing the body of Christ constantly bickering over who is right, and who is wrong, and we are NOT presenting a sincere example of Jesus Christ to them.

A lost person today who Might be considering becoming a Christian, who witnesses the examples of modern day Christians, would not be drawn to considering the truth of Gods word, they are being presented with a witness of confusion by us.

good thing i know about the I in TULIP, or i'd lay awake nights jes tortured over this ;)

[reformedfan]

man alive, dude, didja read Jonas3's post that i was responding to? He said 'weaker brothers are not armins, but people who don't believe the Gospel.' I said, 'if they (as in weaker brothers, not Armins) don't believe the Gospel, how can they (those who don't believe the Gospel) be brothers at all'-you got me pegged wrong, even in your baseball bat threaD i never said armins weren;t Christinas, i consis stood on the side of 'anyone who has been redeemed by Christ's blood is in, no matter what their theology' you are mixed up, like i already said, please knock it off, i got enough problems with internet harrassment from people who are wrong

[Beoga]

I strongly disagree.

We set an example of Jesus Christ by our actions,

That is theology/doctrine


and the prominent actions, which are the daily visible example the world is seeing of Jesus Christ today is severe bickering, and arguing over absolutely NON important doctrinal issues.

The true standard by which any person is required to live their Christian life after being born again is set according to ALL of the word of God (2nd Timothy 3:16), not mans loose denominational, theological interpretations of some of the word of God.

The majority of modern day theological denominational doctrines are at best, severely lacking in sound Biblical truth.

You better not ever open your mouth and speak anything about Christ or God because when you do you are speaking theology.
Our theology affects how we live and how we evangelize.

[reformedfan]

ok, so you're saying the Mormon, the Catholic & I all will tell the same Gospel, since the Gospel is a doctrine- free zone?

[CoffeeSwirls]

I am a Christian by the grace of God and a Calvinist because I read my Bible. When I discuss Christianity with a nonbeliever, there is no mention of election and there shouldn't be. We are to preach the gospel indiscriminately and let the Holy Spirit work in the hearts of those whom He will.

My pastor was raised Catholic, converted at the witness of pentecostals, and came to believe in Calvinism when he read the Bible. He no longer holds the tradition of man as final truth and no longer accepts anything extrabiblical as a foundation of his faith. Was he saved because of the church of those who presented the gospel or because God saved him? Anyone in this forum would give praise to God and not to man.

[Beoga]

Theology has absolutely NOTHING to whatsoever to do with witnessing to the lost.

So the death of Christ and His redemptive power bringing about justification to a lost sinner has absolutely nothing to do with Theology?


I don't go up to a lost person and say hey would you like to become a memebr of the Presbytarian church, or the Baptist church, or the Assembly of God church, or the Pentecostal Church?

I ask them, did you know that Jesus loves you?


This brings about denominational theology. The non-reformed person makes no distinction between God's love for people. The reformed person makes a distinction between God's salvific love for His elect and His general love for all. If you share one or the another, or give off the implication of one over the area, you are sharing denominational theology.



IF That question gets a positive response, I tell them the uncompromised, life changing, full Gospel story of the cross of Jesus Christ.


The Gospel does not contain theology? Christ dying for sinners is not theology?


Election is not spoken of, denominations are not mentioned, theology is NOT declared, ONLY the Gospel of Jesus Christ, denominational trash is thrown to the wind like so much garbage, because when a lost person, who has a need only GOD can meet, is hearing the Gospel declared to them, they could care less about some denominations doctrinal theological trash.


Do you know what theology is? If so, you should not call it trash.


If you folks want to go and try to save people into your denomination, go ahead, but none of them will get to heaven on that witness :thumbsup:

Its not about saving someone into my denomination, it is about presenting the whole of Biblical Truth and not shying away from sharing it so as not to discomfort anyone. I do not want to see someone make a profession of faith and then profess hersey.

[reformedfan]

You are still stating that the lost have to become a Calvinist before they can truly become a Christian....

ok, so the mormon, the arminian, the calvinist & the jehov witness all tell the same Gospel, there ya like that better?

doctrine DOES come into it, two of those on the list above will tell the wrong Gospel, one of the right versionsa of the Gospel from the list above will conclude with "pray this prayer" & the other correct presentation won't. That's doctrine.

[ksen]

I am a Christian by the grace of God and a Calvinist because I read my Bible.

That is an awesome statement! Can I have your permission to put it in my sig? :)

[ksen]

You are still stating that the lost have to become a Calvinist before they can truly become a Christian....

Fatty, you are seriously misconstruing what reformedfan has been saying. Please check your presuppositions and reread what she has been saying.

[ksen]

I am a Born Again, Spirit Fileld, Child of God, and servant of Jesus Christ, by the Grace of God....

Why are you laying all of this theology on us?

[CoffeeSwirls]

Theology is the study of God, just as geology is the study of rocks. geo + ology / theo + ology Theology is the study of God, it is the way that we learn more about the one we worship, who is God. The very gospel message of the mercy of God who came to Earth and was crucufied is theology. A nonbeliever learns of their lack of a way to save themselves and believes on Christ and the atonement for their sins. They must learn several things before they can be saved, if they are to believe in something.

[CoffeeSwirls]

By the way Denny, if you want to learn about God it would be better to learn from a teacher who will listen to what others are saying and who will respect them regardless of what answer they give. Based on the way Fatty has presented himself in these forums and the way he has repeatedly disguised himself to cause trouble, all in the name of some class in church no less, does he present himself as a trustworthy teacher? You don't need to answer me, just think about it for a moment.

[edb19]

ok, so you're saying the Mormon, the Catholic & I all will tell the same Gospel, since the Gospel is a doctrine- free zone?

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Just before I read your post I was thinking that lack of sound theological and doctrinal knowledge/understanding allows people to be taken in by the likes of Jim Jones and David Koresh.

[Fatty]

By the way Denny, if you want to learn about God it would be better to learn from a teacher who will listen to what others are saying and who will respect them regardless of what answer they give. Based on the way Fatty has presented himself in these forums and the way he has repeatedly disguised himself to cause trouble, all in the name of some class in church no less, does he present himself as a trustworthy teacher? You don't need to answer me, just think about it for a moment.

I will say this about my friend, and my SINCERE brother in Christ Jesus, Fatty.

Disguised himself? ^_^ That's rich! What you don't know is sometimes I posted some of the things that were posted, just to test some of you on how Christ Like you would act, and sometimes some of you failed miserably, what an acceptable example of Jesus Christ some of you presented to some brand new Christians in our classes!

Mopre than once some of you were asked for proof of the Biblical validity of your doctrine, none of you ever once gave that proof, ever!

More than once many of you were asked HOW a Calvinist (exclusivelly select elect person) knows for sure they are the one and only exclusivelly select elect, and that they have been saved, NOT once did any of you ever answer that question, most of the time you argued, insulted, and was very arrogant and sarcastic, as is the case even now when a certain memebr of your group declares in his/her posts that anyone who will not accept the teachings of John Calvin should not even be acknowledegd as a brother in Christ!

NOW if that is NOT saying any other person other than a Calvinist is not a Christian, what is, BUT of course, calvinsist can do no wrong, right?

At least Fatty takes the time to present the whole picture from the word of God, and not little pieces of verses butchered and mutilated by denominational prejudices.

The one thing he has taught us from the very beginning of our Bible studies is that we must base all of our beliefs in God, on all of his word, and not part of his word.

AND Fatty has also given each of the opportunity to study any denominations doctrines for ourselves, encouraging us to thoroughly comopare the doctrine to ALL of Gods word to accurately verify it's BIBLICAL authenticity, and we have done this with the teachings of John Calvin, and guess what?

The teachings do not accurately agree with ALL of Gods word!

WE have also read the posts in these forums which supposedly prove the teachings of John Calvin to be acccurate and they are NOT.

Fatty teaches the truth as it is written in the word of God, not some mans false doctrine.

I'd much rather follow a teacher who is not afraid to tell us the whole truth about God. Denny

[Fatty]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Just before I read your post I was thinking that lack of sound theological and doctrinal knowledge/understanding allows people to be taken in by the likes of Jim Jones and David Koresh.

I made this challenge in another thread, so I will give you all the same challenge here.

Give an example of how you would present what you think is a Biblically sound, presentation of the uncompromised, life changing Full Gospel message of the cross of Jesus Christ to a lost person.

BUT remember, the person you are witnessing to is someone who has never been in a church in their life, they have never once heard anything about God, Jesus, or the Bible, they know nothing at all about any religious group, or any denomination, this person is absolutely Spiritually ignorant.

Go for it! ;)

[reformedfan]

everything everyone has said to you, on every single subject, you have mocked & belittled & distorted.

I do not need to tell you the Gospel, hoping you approve of the manner in which i present it, you are not my God. i know i say the Gospel right cuz it's the message of the Bible- not just the New Testament- & cuz I've seen God pleased to used it in the hearts of the elect, drawing them to faith in His Son.

Go to hte debate area if you want to debate. You make a good case for entrapment being illegal. James 3:1

[Fatty]

everything everyone has said to you, on every single subject, you have mocked & belittled & distorted.

I do not need to tell you the Gospel, hoping you approve of the manner in which i present it, you are not my God. i know i say the Gospel right cuz it's the message of the Bible- not just the New Testament- & cuz I've seen God pleased to used it in the hearts of the elect, drawing them to faith in His Son.

Go to the debate area if you want to debate. You make a good case for entrapment being illegal. James 3:1

Again, you refuse to post what you think is a proper way in which to present what you think is the uncompromised life changing full Gospel message of the cross of Jesus Christ.

Why are you all so afraid to post that example, you imply that your way of presenting the Gospel is the one and only absolutely Biblically correct manner in which a TRUE Christian ought to do it, so why won't you at least POST that presentation of the one and only proper way to witness to the lost?