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Wigglesworth
25th September 2005, 08:11 PM
There was no priest at the church I visited this morning. Instead of a mass, there was a communion service celebrated by a deacon. That was a first for me. He delivered a homily that he had personally prepared, and that actually answered a question for me. I had wondered whether deacons preached, and this one did.

I had heard that laypeople in the ECUSA were allowed only to read a sermon that had been written by someone else, but not allowed to deliver one they had prepared themselves. So, that is why I wondered whether the deacon was allowed to preach. Of course, the deacon is not a layperson, but an ordained minister. This just happened to be the first time I attended a PNCC service when no priest was present. One of the ECUSA churches I've visited has morning prayer with a layperson every other Sunday, so I had been somewhat familiar with that.

The deacon I met this morning talked about his duties, and he sounds much busier than I expected. He will be filling in for the next six weeks as the regular celebrant in two parishes where the priest just broke his foot. He regularly serves at the cathedral, and it sounds like he probably spends a good amount of time visiting and working as a deacon during the week. All that may be in addition to his regular day job.

Being a deacon, at least for this guy, is clearly not a "Sunday once in a while" ministry. Although I considered it before, I seriously doubted today that I would be up to it.

:crossrc:

IowaLutheran
25th September 2005, 09:17 PM
I had heard that laypeople in the ECUSA were allowed only to read a sermon that had been written by someone else, but not allowed to deliver one they had prepared themselves.

:crossrc:

I've seen a layperson in an ECUSA parish deliver a sermon they prepared - maybe that is a policy that varies from diocese to diocese.

Finella
25th September 2005, 10:27 PM
From my experience, the policies regarding lay preaching in the ECUSA do vary from diocese to diocese -- in the diocese of PA, for example, I believe, one needs to get a license from the diocese to be a lay preacher. It has been and can be done.

And I thought deacons preaching would be the norm until my latest parish where the deacon never preached. I guess it varies from deacon to deacon!

And I doubt any deacon would consider their vocation to be limited to "just Sundays." :)

TomUK
26th September 2005, 02:10 AM
For some reason i've often thought that traditionally the role of the deacon was to preach the sermon. I've no idea where i got that from though and i'm probably totally wrong!

Fish and Bread
26th September 2005, 02:25 AM
For some reason i've often thought that traditionally the role of the deacon was to preach the sermon. I've no idea where i got that from though and i'm probably totally wrong!

The traditional role of the deacon is to read the gospel. You probably heard that and then over time remembered it as preach the gospel and then remembered that as preach the sermon. Words can get mixed up pretty easily over time, especially when they're so closely related. Happens to me all the time. :)

John

Naomi4Christ
26th September 2005, 05:02 AM
Do all your churches have deacons?

We don't, and I don't think we ever have.

We have a vicar, curate, verger, 4 lay workers, 2 readers, and a bunch of pastoral assistants. Anyone can deliver a sermon/talk in our church - I did one myself a couple of months ago - but in general there are three members of the congregation, not including ministers or readers, who routinely preach. Anyone can read the gospel as well - we are a fairly literate parish!

The only job that is down to vicar/curate is celebrating HC, but I think this is always carried out by the highest 'ranking' person present anyway - so if we had an Archdeacon in our midst, or a Bishop, it would be down to them. We only have HC once a month, so always have a member of the ordained clergy present, but I don't think an Agape would be beyond us.

karen freeinchristman
26th September 2005, 08:58 AM
In the Church of England as I know it, the deacon has become just a passing phase on the way to priesthood. The first year after a person is ordained, they are a deacon. After one year as a deacon, they are then routinely ordained priest. The Church of England is throwing around the idea of having a more permanent office of deacon.
Currently, deacons can do everything a priest can do except celebrate HC and pronounce the absolution. It is up to the priest to decide what things (apart from those two things) the deacon can do in the particular church/parish. The deacon is under the priest's direction.

higgs2
26th September 2005, 09:33 AM
Do all your churches have deacons?

We don't, and I don't think we ever have.

We have a vicar, curate, verger, 4 lay workers, 2 readers, and a bunch of pastoral assistants. Anyone can deliver a sermon/talk in our church - I did one myself a couple of months ago - but in general there are three members of the congregation, not including ministers or readers, who routinely preach. Anyone can read the gospel as well - we are a fairly literate parish!

The only job that is down to vicar/curate is celebrating HC, but I think this is always carried out by the highest 'ranking' person present anyway - so if we had an Archdeacon in our midst, or a Bishop, it would be down to them. We only have HC once a month, so always have a member of the ordained clergy present, but I don't think an Agape would be beyond us.

What is a verger?

Father Rick
26th September 2005, 11:15 AM
There are 2 types of deacons-- permanent deacons and transitional deacons. Each category is exactly what it sounds like. Permanent deacons are those who don't want to be priests and therefore remain deacons permanently. Transitional deacons are those who are in training to be a priest and spend normally a year as a deacon while preparing.

A deacon's original (and still primary) role is to 'wait on tables'. The deacon assists the priest at the altar during mass and also takes communion to the sick, those in prison, etc. who cannot attend mass.

A deacon may also read the gospel and prepare/deliver the homily. The degree to which this is done depends on the particular parish and it's needs-- as well as the comfort level of the priest in charge of that parish. Personally, I will have my newly ordained deacon preaching once a month so that he gets plenty of experience.

Naomi4Christ
26th September 2005, 11:22 AM
What is a verger?

Good question - and the answer will be different in different churches.

In our church, the verger is present at all of our morning services, weddings and funerals. One of the things he does is lead a procession (we only have this with formal services) by carrying the cross - this is called verging, and it historically means making a path through a crowd for the preacher to safely pass through on the way to wherever he was to deliver his sermon. Our verger is also responsible for the cleaning of the church and keeping all the communion stuff spic-and-span, and for booking the church. Woe betide anyone who leaves the church in a mess after their small group - they then have the verger or, worse, the verger's wife to deal with. I think the verger might also singlehandedly dispose of any excess communion wine, judging by his rosy cheeks!

The role of the verger is a very ancient one and assumes a lifelong dedication to the parish. A lot of newer churches have split the role among various volunteer groups.

svdbygrace
26th September 2005, 11:45 AM
Good question - and the answer will be different in different churches.

In our church, the verger is present at all of our morning services, weddings and funerals. One of the things he does is lead a procession (we only have this with formal services) by carrying the cross - this is called verging, and it historically means making a path through a crowd for the preacher to safely pass through on the way to wherever he was to deliver his sermon. Our verger is also responsible for the cleaning of the church and keeping all the communion stuff spic-and-span, and for booking the church. Woe betide anyone who leaves the church in a mess after their small group - they then have the verger or, worse, the verger's wife to deal with. I think the verger might also singlehandedly dispose of any excess communion wine, judging by his rosy cheeks!

The role of the verger is a very ancient one and assumes a lifelong dedication to the parish. A lot of newer churches have split the role among various volunteer groups.

Very Interesting! :)

higgs2
27th September 2005, 06:35 PM
Oh! Thank you for the answer -- I just saw it.

Good question - and the answer will be different in different churches.

In our church, the verger is present at all of our morning services, weddings and funerals. One of the things he does is lead a procession (we only have this with formal services) by carrying the cross - this is called verging, and it historically means making a path through a crowd for the preacher to safely pass through on the way to wherever he was to deliver his sermon. Our verger is also responsible for the cleaning of the church and keeping all the communion stuff spic-and-span, and for booking the church. Woe betide anyone who leaves the church in a mess after their small group - they then have the verger or, worse, the verger's wife to deal with. I think the verger might also singlehandedly dispose of any excess communion wine, judging by his rosy cheeks!

The role of the verger is a very ancient one and assumes a lifelong dedication to the parish. A lot of newer churches have split the role among various volunteer groups.

Polycarp1
12th October 2005, 10:02 AM
The canons of ECUSA provide that deacons, and laymen as well, may preach when authorized to do so by the Ordinary (i.e., the Bishop of the Diocese). In most dioceses, the deacons, whether transitional or vocational, get an automatic authorization. The rector of a self-supporting parish may also authorize a lay member to preach at a given service, reviewing and taking responsibility for the homily or sermon he or she preaches.