Can we stop sinning?

[Thunderchild]

Can you provide reasons for your answer?

[savinggrc]

Yes, we can stop sinning - as soon as we put off this body of flesh. :D

[Thunderchild]

Oh well said sir. Prithee tell, when might that occur?

[epobre]

Apostle John writes: "My little children, these things I write to you, that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteosness."

True Christians, being new creation in Christ must have the mind of Jesus and walk according to the spirit of God and not according to the flesh.

However, man being of a sinful nature, cannot avoid sin or transgression of God's laws completely. That's why there will always be a NEED for the ONLY mediator, the MAN Christ Jesus.

Ed

[WhitBit]

Jesus conquered the power of Sin at the cross - And where God provides that "way out" of every sin, He also offers us strength to take it.

Doesn't mean we always choose to - our flesh leaves us vulnerable to our own evil desires and God doesn't take away the OPTION of sin just because we become Christians.

But CAN we physically, spiritually win the battle? Yes :D

Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

[Josephus]

amen!

[Thunderchild]

Well, I'll be descended from a monkey....I was NOT expecting those responses at all.

Yes we are able to stop sinning.

Yes, we are able, but we don't.

OK - so how did you come to get it right. I am THOROUGHLY confused.

(And we don't because it is that we tend to try to serve two masters.)

[WhitBit]

"The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constatly fighting each other, and you choices are never free from this conflict. But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law." - Galatians 5:17-18

Thus...we are still subject to our old desires, but can conquer them with the Holy Spirit's guidance.

"I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection!! But I keep working twoard that day when I will finally be all that Christ Jesus saved me for and wants me to be, but I am focusing all my energies on the one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I strain to reach the end of the race and receive the prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us up to heaven." -Philippians 3:13-14

Doesn't mean that we always will...Paul warns believers over and over to put their time to doing righteous deeds, avoiding a "devil's workshop" situation. God does not take away our freedom of choice just because we live for Him - and bad choices are not without consequence...but we should not let our sins keep us dwelling on it, for there is a greater plan, and all is not lost because we give in to temptation.

Is this making sense? I get so engrossed in Scripture that I often forget what I'm looking for :rolleyes: ...and I tend to digress :D But this is not altogether a bad thing.

[LouisBooth]

"Yes, we are able, but we don't."

You just stumbled upon why we are OSAS :)

"Thus...we are still subject to our old desires, but can conquer them with the Holy Spirit's guidance."

And here it is again...sin nature is gone but we still sin.

[Optimus_P]

i wold have to agree with at least 3 other people here that voted.. hehe

Yes we can stop, but thru temptation we do not. It can take a life time to stop sinning but in that life time your faith should grow to such a level that really you see past the temptation in later life, you learn to reap the rewards that you can not have now. Its an investment. How many kids/teenagers/Young adults (mindframe) know how much an investment is actually worth in later life?

[Blackhawk]

OptimusP,

Yeah. I think that although we can stop sinning we won't. Just like God could go against His word and scrap this world and start over. But He won't. (which makes me very happy :) )

God has given us the ability to choose something besides sin but we are too weak to always choose God instead of sin. That is why the Holy Spirit takes us through the process of sanctification all our lives. Although I think that it would be better not to sin at all, it is really neat to work out my problems with the God of the universe.

Blackhaw6

[InspectorVol]

NO! This explains it all.
1John.1
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
[3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[4] And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[Blackhawk]

Inspector Vol,
It definitely says it better than I ever could. But how can I compete against an all-everything God. He is one person I will let win. :D Or is that one of the 3 persons? :p

blackhaw6

[Thunderchild]

Inspector Vol> Who could possibly say that he has no sin? For that claim to be made, one would have to have lived one's entire life without ever sinning.

Over 57 passages in the New Testament (outside the gospel record) show that a person can, and is required to, overcome sin. I haven't counted the number in the gospel records which make the same statement, but there are many. (I stopped counting the number of records when I realised that counting all the time was getting silly.)

An abbreviated list of the passages, together with the quotes, can be found at - no point in cluttering up this message with the details.

But you have yourself posted a point that should be examined in depth. "He is able to cleanse us of all unrighteousness."

Blackhawk> Quite true. One of the reasons we need to produce works is that by works faith is perfected. And with a perfected faith, one can proceed to not sin.

However, love for God is the only true safeguard against sinning. Without that, all else is just bricks and mortar piled upon no foundation.

[LouisBooth]

Sanctification is done by GOD not us. The choice we have is to allow or not allow it to happen...or something to that effect.

[InspectorVol]

I may have misunderstood what you were saying to me and if so treat this post as such.
I was simply answering the question ,"if we could stop sinning?" No we can't, the bible says exactly that. I didn't mean to infer that we couldn't ask and get forgiveness for those sins. Jesus died just for that reason.

[kezekiel]

Matthew 22:36 [wash my mouth]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 [wash my mouth]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 [wash my mouth]This is the first and great commandment.
39 [wash my mouth]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 [wash my mouth]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If you have loved God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and you have loved your neighbor as yourself, then you haven't sinned.

Did I mention that you have to do this perfectly, 24/7?

Trust me - you sin. We all do, for we all fall short of the glory of God.

[edjones]

Your right Kezekeil, and we can't stop till were done dead.

[Apologist]

Amen!

Romans 7:14-25 sums it all up:


14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

God Bless

[JohnR7]

>>Can you provide reasons for your answer?

You can tell that we are living in the time of the great apostasy, because there are so many who either do not know the truth, or who reject the truth.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Jesus had no unfair advantage over us. Yet He was without sin. He came to show us the way to overcome sin. He had the same body we have, and He brought it into subjection. The only difference is, He had divine blood in His vains, but we who are born again, have the divine blood in our soul. We take on the same divine nature He had, when we are born again.

1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Peter makes it clear that there are righteous and there are sinners and sinners are not saved. Jesus is returning soon for a church that is without spot, blemish or wrinkle. She will be living free from sin. Only the truely righteous will be qualifiied to go up in the rapture to be with Jesus. Those who have sin in their life, will have to go by way of the grave.

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul makes it clear that "we are made free from sin". It's the power of the Blood of Jesus that cleanses us, and our faith in the power of God to set us free from all sin.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

All sin is bondage, if there were any sin in our lives. Then we would not be truely free, we would still have bondage. The Bible clearly says, you shall know the truth and you shall be free.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. [35] "And the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. [36] "If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

[SPaZZdOG]

IMO you can't stop sinning complete,but as you grow to be a stronger christian and get closer to Jesus you are less likely to sin as much.For new christians that haven't studied the bible enough maybe sinning and not know it.Does that mean that they won't go to Heaven,absolutly not.The bible says to repent daily I think its because we sin daily.I think a person should strive to be perfect but I think it's an unreachable goal :) :)

[kezekiel]

All sin is bondage, if there were any sin in our lives. Then we would not be truely free, we would still have bondage. The Bible clearly says, you shall know the truth and you shall be free.

I think it would be helpful if I understood just how you understand sin. I believe that the Bible teaches that sin is falling short of the glory of God; failing to love Him with all of your heart and all of your mind and all of your strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself. The standard is perfection. We cannot hope to live up to it.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." - 1 John 1:8

While we are free from our slavery to sin, and final victory in the war that is within us is assured, there are still many battles to be fought.

[snw7]

While we continue to live in this fallen world, we will continue daily with the struggle of sin. Positionally we are righteous before God (we are saved by His grace through our faith), yet we still sin because we haven't yet discarded our sinful nature (flesh and blood). That doesn't preclude us from being saved, it just shows why this world isn't perfect - because sin is still dominate in the world we live in.

However, when we are resurrected, then will the old nature truely be dead and we will no longer be slaves to sin or this sinful world.

But if anyone can confess honestly and truthfully that they are without sin since becoming a child of God, then I would really like to meet you and study with you and find out how you did it, because not even Paul the Apostle was able to make that claim (Romans 17:18-19).

[psalms 22.3]

i believe we can stop sinning. becuase sin isnt gods will. and god wants us to be in his will.
those who walk according to the spirit, dont fullfill the lust of the flesh.
and were not a debtor to the flesh, im not controlled by it anymore, if im in the right place with god.

did jesus sin?
he came in the likeness of sinful flesh. he battled everything we do, and overcame.

is it possible to walk purely in the spirit?
i think it is the same question as
is it possible to be totally obedient?
then
is it possible to hear his voice that well? i believe so.

yes.
there is a place with god, where you always know him, and hear him, all you must do is obey.
it is possible to be fully consumed by the spirit of god, in a place of pure intamicy with him, where you always hear his voice, and you must simply obey. to be totally led by him, hell never lead you into sin.

and actually, no matter what, hell make a way of escape for every sin you ever incounter, but do you know him well enough to hear his voice like that?
i dont know if anyone does now, but i want to.

[Blackhawk]

Can we stop sinning?

Well that is the impossible possibility. We could do it. We are no longer slaves to sin. However we won't. Why? because we are human. So the pratical answer is no. But the theological answer is yes but not in real life.

blackhaw6

[LouisBooth]

Yup we can, will it happen? Nope, because we are not strong enough in our faith.

[Darren]

1 John 3:5-6,9:

"But you know that he appeared that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him…No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

What part does this play in your dicussion then? It clashes with a lot of what some of you have said. And it kind of clashes with what Paul writes, and has been quoted earlier?

??????????????????????????

[psalms 22.3]

yes, thats true.
but in that sentence, the word SIN OR SINNING means THE PRACTICE OF SIN, not really the individual mistake of a single sin.
i mean, i sin, but does that mean i never got saved? i know im saved, yet i sinned yesterday a couple of times.
its talking about the practice of sin.
i do not practice it anymore. but it does happen.

were humans?
we dont have enough faith?
i refuse to accept that.
if god said somethings possible, im gonna do my best to doit! and i can doit!

were humans? so our flesh keeps us from gods best?
that is not true, not in scripture.
romans 8.11,12
but if the spirit of him that raised up jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES by his spirit that dwelleth in you.
therefore, brethren, WE ARE DEBTORS NOT TO THE FLESH, TO LIVE AFTER THE FLESH.

you as a christian do not have to live in the limits of your flesh!
but live in the almightiness of the holyspirit! the unlimitedness!

we dont have enough faith?
2 cor 8.7
therefor as ye ABOUND in everything, IN FAITH...
that word ABOUND is
"perisseuo"
it means
SUPERABOUND(in quantity, or quality)
BE IN EXCESS
BE SUPERFLUOUS
translated-
TO CAUSE TO SUPERABOUND OR EXCELL
ENOUGH TO SPARE, TO EXCEED.

we can have more than enough faith! these people did!

its not that WE dont have enough faith, YOU can choose to not have enough, but I MYSELF dont have to live under that limitation.

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Pastor Thunderchild
Can you provide reasons for your answer?

If you are a child of the devil, you can not stop sinning, because it is the nature of the devil to sin and his children to sin. Just the same, a child of God does not sin, because that is what makes them a child of God, they have a divine nature and they do not sin.

1 John 3:8-9
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

[Debbie]

The scriptures that refer to our being sinful & admitting it, is referring to knowledge that we were sinful before we accepted Christ. Even if we think we were good, we still inherited Adam's sin. So anyone who said they were not sinful before they were saved is lying to themselves.
This has nothing to do with "once saved always saved". It has to do with our will in opposition to God's will. I don't want to sin. I don't find it necessary.
I have found that the longer I place God's will above my own, The less I am tempted to sin. I believe that eventually I will laugh at temptation. I'm just not there yet. Maybe I will never get there. But I don't what kind of sin everyone is saying they commit either.
HAving a bad thought is sinful, so I will always sin if we are counting satanic suggestion. If I dwell upon those thoughts, it's my sin. If I act upon those thoughts I'm in deep doo-doo. BUt I can ask for forgiveness & start all over. So what type of sins are we still committing?

[psalms 22.3]

yeah, i agree totally.

one thing i think most people dont realise about sin, is really where its from, a man showed this to me the other day and its really good.

if you talk to the average christian about sin, theyll be like, YEAH THE DEVIL WAS JUST ATTACKING ME YESTERDAY! or when they feel tempted THEY START REBUKING DEMONS, and really attacking something that may not even be there. as if all temptation is from a devil whispering in your ear. but it isnt.

many times, when we are tempted, its not becuase some devil is talking to you, or attacking you. but becuase you have an unclean desire, and you desire that thing thats tempting you. so, many times you yourself are the root of that temptation, there is still something in you somewhere that wants to do that thing, and thats why you are tempted by it.

like, say your own a fast. and you see a big ol choc.cake! your gonna be like MAN I WANT THAT CAKE! but is that the devil in your ear? no, its just that you want it.

so, in battleing sin, there must a cleansing of the old man, a burning away of yourself, you must be changed. its not so much beating the demons that attack you, and sometimes they do, but mostly it is you changing THE WAY YOU ARE INTO A M AN THAT DOESNT DESIRE THOSE THINGS ANYMORE.

so, next time you feel tempted, think about it, is it a demon? or is it simply your unclean desire? its probly not a demon.
and ask god to change you, and do the neccesary things to change yourself. like,
1. renew your mind by the word.
read the bible so much that you start to automaticly live it.
to where in every situation your first reaction is what the word says. change the way you think, by reading the word, day and night. god told joshua to meditate on it, day and night. that shows just how much we need to be reading it. josh 1.8
no matter what, always have a teaching tape playing, be reading the word, someway somehow feed yourself on the word at all times, youll become to so full, that it will just start spilling over and out of you. youll no longer think the way you thought.
i use to be like WHOA MOMMA THAT WOMANS GOT SOME BIG ******!
but now im like
DANG IT! I DONT WANNA SEE THOSE! my nature is changing. where i use to instantly reach out to sin. now i am starting to instantly recoil and fight it.

2. stay in prayer.
stay in strong relationship with god, those who really love god, obey god. and love comes through intamicy and that comes through relationship. you wont really love god like you should if you dont have a continual prayer life. your love will grow cold and youll start to move farther away. continual prayer keeps a strong relationship, it also brings a strong level of conviction. sins will start to look so filthy and disgusting! when you are close to god, youll hunger to obey him, and youll hate to disobey him.

3. fast.
it casts off your flesh. as you willfully deny yourself of its desire, you train yourself to overcome the flesh, and your flesh dies.
your mortifying your flesh like paul said to do.
much of the reason that people dont really know god like they should even when they want to, is becuase they are so full of the flesh, that god cannot come very close to them in his holiness.

there must be a cleansing of your uncleanliness. a divine washing of your soul. as you allow the holyspirit to take away what is your and naturally unclean, and replace it with divine substance! but that costs everything.

this was said of a man named smith wigglesworth.
when smith prayed, you couldnt stay in the same room with him for more than 30 min. becuase so much of the power and glory of god would come down that anyone else would run for his life!

see, those other men were so unclean (or average) that god wouldnt come like this for them, but when smith prayed god would come becuase he was purified.
and these other men where cast into a dangerous place that god really hadnt allowed them to go to ,becuase they were unclean.

smith said he rarely prayed more than 30 min. but he never went 30 mins without praying.
he was one time walking to a revival with his friends, it was a long walk. and he just started going crasy! he was like, WE HAVE TO STOP AND PRAY! THE FLESH IS OVERCOMING US!
he hated to go very long without reading his bible, or praying, thats how close he was to god.

hed carry a bible around, and hed be reading it everywhere at all times.

hed have conversations with people, and hed openly repent to god, if they had been talking about other things besides god for very long.

and this mans shadow healed the sick, he raised his wife from the dead and she asked him to let her go back! he raised 26 people from the dead. hed get into a box car and people would cry out, saying WHAT ARE YOU!? WHO ARE YOU!? theyd be convicted of their uncleanliness by being near him.

charles finney did the same things.
its not odd, its the power of martyrdom! to where god removes what is yours, and replaces it with what is his.

[StogusMaximus]

I have found a website that has a lot of good information. I don't agree with everything that is being said, but I think there are some good points.

www.stopsinning.net

[edjones]

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[jbenjesus]

Yes!

Emphatically, yes!!!

If we walk in the Spirit (which can only be done when we have the indwelling Spirit of God by Jesus' baptism), we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

When Jesus is allowed to live His life through us ("walking in the Spirit") He never sins. So if He is allowed by us to live His life through us we cease to sin.

Righteousness is fulfilled in us not that we fulfill righteousness.

Ezekiel 36:27 promises us that He, "...will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

He causes us to sin no more.

Paul talked of this revelation in these words (paraphrased) that it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives within me. And He is the one that does all that I have been able to do.

Hallelujah! That is a glorious revelation if you will receive it and walk in it.

[SenseiPiccolo]

simply put... NO
the bible says...
Even the rightious man sinneth seven times in a day
also
If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us
^_^

[LouisBooth]

"He causes us to sin no more. "

*sigh* nope. You can't stop sinning. Does this mean you shouldn't try? Nope, you should try not to sin as Paul wrote in romans. The ideal is to not sin but don't fall into a guilty mess when you do because you will sin.

[psalms 22.3]

so, what if i didnt sin seven times yesterday?

if im led of the holyghost, the only reason for me to sin is disobedeince. which proves i dont have to sin, becuase i do have the ability to obey.
those who obey (or walk according to the spirit) dont sin (or fullfill the lust of the flesh).

saying i have to sin, is like saying i have no choice but to go look at a ****o. or that, i have no choice but to lie, or to steal.
which none of those are true.
there is way of escape for all sin, if you follow them, you wont sin.

[Debbie]

I wonder if the difference is that "once saved always saved" folks believe you can never stop sinning, & the ones who believe we CAN stop sinning don't believe "once saved always saved?
I believe I can stop sinning. I don't believe in "once saved always saved".

[jbenjesus]

I encourage you to receive what you can walk in now.

Unfortunately many of us won't and don't believe. Therefore, we continue to fail b/c we rely on our own strength "trying not to sin."

The reality is that we "can" stop sinning, IF we walk in the Spirit. This can be done for those who trust and rely on the resurrection power of Jesus Christ to enliven their mortal bodies to serve Him. Which means I don't rely on myself to enable me to stop sinning. I put my trust that He will cause me to walk in righteousness and holiness before Him.

Do I slip up? Sure I do. Why because I stopped walking in the Spirit and began to walk in the flesh. But that does not disregard the spiritual truth (the revelation) that I CAN stop sinning.

Paul did not preach an unreachable ideal when he said to "walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh (sin)". This is a reality he walked in. Christ lived through him and lives through His people when the people (the body) are yielded to Him. When He is the head, we can do no wrong.

Paraphrased:

As a man thinks, so he is. (Proverbs).

Change what you believe to align with the Word of God and ask God to cause you walk in His ways as He promised He would, for those that have a new heart and a new Spirit - born again.

[rwc109]

Psalms 56:4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption

Psa 31:6 I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

[Blackhawk]

Can I ask what is the confusion or the 2 sidsin thi discussion. We all believe that we all sin daily right? We all believe that we can theoretically overcome and defeat sin right? But we also all believe that we will not overcome all the sin in our lives. Right? We will neer be fully sanctified until Jesus return right? So the anser to me is obvious. WE can stop sinning all together in the theoretical world but not in the real world.

For example answer this question. is it possible for me to go throughout all of grade school without getting one answer wrong but answering 10 questions from the teacher a day? Yes it is possible but not in the real world.

Is there someone who would disagree with me on this? If not then what are we talking about?

blackhaw6

[Debbie]

Some of us think we can stop sinning in the real world thru the work of the Holy Spirit.

[Blackhawk]

Debbie,

But not even Paul could do that. Nor Peter or John. I think the Bible is very clear that all sin and that "if you say that you are without sin then you are deceiving yourself" (carl paraphrase)

We can conquer some sin in our lives and we are justified through Jesus' work on the cross but we will not be sanctified until we see Jesus.

blackhaw6

[jbenjesus]

It's only theoretical to you, blackhaw6, because you do not believe. Some of us have not obtained the righteousness of God in Christ so we can't walk in it.

But for those that have obtained, believe and walk in it now, it is a reality, just as it was for Paul, the apostle.

Paul, the apostle said this,

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

Paul did not say HE sinned. He did not condemn himself, or blame himself. He said it was sin that dwelled in him. "That is, in my flesh." He realized he was a new creation in Christ.

His mind (will) sought to please and serve God. He did not take condemnation from anyone because he knew this to be true in his own heart (spirit). For those who walk in the Spirit there is no condemnation. He walked in the reality that the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (in contrast to the old law of sin and death) freed him from the old law. He knew he did not need to fulfill righteosness because the righteousness which he sought was fulfilled in him because he now walked in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit expresses the righteousness of God in you.

They that are of the Spirit do the things of the Spirit. Paul was not in the flesh, because the Spirit, also known as the Spirit of God, also known as the Spirit of Christ, dwelled in him. He realized that his body was dead because of sin, but now he is alive by Christ who was in him. The Spirit in his life brought the righteousness of God which he sought.

He was led by the Spirit of God, therefore, he wasa son of God and the sons of God are righteous. We were (past tense) sinners, but now we are righteous, in Him.

We know that no sinner will inherit the kingdom of God, but the righteous will.

If the Spirit of Life is in you, than you have been made righteous (without sin). Did his blood cleanse us, or not? Victory (salvation) is not only in the future, it is now. The kingdom of God is in you, if you have met these requirements, and it is present now.

Romans 14:17 - For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

[LouisBooth]

You can stop sinning...I believe in OSAS why don't you stop sinning? Because we are weak willed and are human.

[jbenjesus]

We can enter into a "state", for lack of a better word, where we do not sin.

Can we sin? Sure. Our choice to obey or not is always there. But the attitude that we can't stop sinning and we're inevitabley going to fail is where I take issue.

We do not sin when we are walking in the Spirit. Can we sin? Yes, but the point is we do not have too!

We are not doomed to fail. We have been enabled by the power of the Spirit to not sin and have the victory over that which has ruled and reigned in our lives before we were born again.

Michael F. Blume gave a wonderful teacing on this and has it posted on his web site. It's free and it's only two web pages long (that's relative b/c how long is a web page ;) )I highly recommend it.

Paul Taught We Do Not Have To Commit Sins Again (http://mikeblume.com/romans1.htm) Hallelujah!!!

[Blackhawk]

jbenjesus,

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

"Paul did not say HE sinned. He did not condemn himself, or blame himself. He said it was sin that dwelled in him."

"That is, in my flesh." He realized he was a new creation in Christ.

Me: I have no problem with you saying that we are new creations in Christ because we are. However even Paul realized that He did sin. When you say that he said he did not sin do you think that he meant that it really was not him at all? No. He was the one doing it but it no longer in his nature to sin. Sinning now went against his own self because it was opposite of who God made into a new creation. But He stil sinned.

My pastor used to say that we are no longer sinners but saints who sin. What he is saying is that we are saints because we are justified now but we still sin because we are not sanctified. Because of Jesus' sacrifice we are right with God but we still do the things that Jesus had to die for.

blackhaw6

[jbenjesus]

Paul recognized that his own heart's desire (spirit, mind, what you will) served God and the new law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

I'm just showing that when Paul recognized that he sinned after becoming born again, he admitted,

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me ."

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it , but sin that dwelleth in me. "

As a new creature in Christ, Paul said, "It is no more that I do it." Not once, but twice in Romans 7. He said it was sin that dwelled in Him.

He cries out later, who will rescue me from the body of this death, (where sin dwells).

Ha-ha!!! Thank God for the rest of Romans!!!

[rwc109]

Dearly beloved of God,
Does thsi not indicate that we must be perfect to be translated and not see death:-

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Also a repeated theme....."be thou perfect" :-

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Leviticus 22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.

Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

1Ki 8:56 Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant.

1Ki 8:57 The LORD our God be with us, as he was with our fathers: let him not leave us, nor forsake us:

1Ki 8:58 That he may incline our hearts unto him, to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, which he commanded our fathers.

1Ki 8:59 And let these my words, wherewith I have made supplication before the LORD, be nigh unto the LORD our God day and night, that he maintain the cause of his servant, and the cause of his people Israel at all times, as the matter shall require:

1Ki 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

1Ki 8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

2Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

[LouisBooth]

in a word RW...nope :) Its by grace I have been saved.

[Darren]

hear! hear!

[Optimus_P]

to clarify by grace and faith. you must have both.

This is a fundimental teaching at least in christianity. I dont follow other denominations so i can not speak for them.

[Blackhawk]

rwc109,

"Does thsi not indicate that we must be perfect to be translated and not see death"

YES! We can't have any sin when if we want to enter into Heaven because God is perfect and becaue He is jsut He cannot be in fellowship with imperfect beings. But none of us are perfect even after we were saved so we are in a bad position. That is why God's grace is so important. God justified us through His sacrifice so we can enter into Heaven with all our sins apid for in full. So in a sense all Christians are perfect becasue we have no sins that are not forgiven and not paid for through Jesus' blood on the cross.

So we do not have to be perfect in ourselves. We receive perfectedness from God.

blackhaw6

[LouisBooth]

"YES! We can't have any sin when if we want to enter into Heaven because God is perfect and becaue He is jsut He cannot be in fellowship with imperfect beings. But none of us are perfect even after we were saved so we are in a bad position. "

This seems to contradict what the rest of your post said..so I'll correct this ;) at the moment of salvation we are perfect, our sin nature is dead and not coming back thus we can get into heaven at anytime after that event.

[solo66 man]

We'll not stop sinning until we are at the right hand of God.
If we keep our eyes on Jesus, the road will be smoother and straighter.

[Day]

Originally posted by savinggrc
Yes, we can stop sinning - as soon as we put off this body of flesh. :D

Amen! Not until we get new bodies.

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"YES! We can't have any sin when if we want to enter into Heaven because God is perfect and becaue He is jsut He cannot be in fellowship with imperfect beings. But none of us are perfect even after we were saved so we are in a bad position. "

This seems to contradict what the rest of your post said..so I'll correct this ;) at the moment of salvation we are perfect, our sin nature is dead and not coming back thus we can get into heaven at anytime after that event.

Yes it does seem to contradict but I do not think it does. Our sins if not paid for will keep us out of heaven. That is any sin that is not paid for will do it. However our sins our paid for becasue of Jesus' sacrifice. So what I am basically saying is that we only go to heaven because of god's grace. Becasue He sent His son to die and make us "perfect" as far as what God seees when He looks at our lives. Basically that God makes us perfect so that we can have communion with Him. So it is nothing that we do but what He does. He was the sacrifice for all of our sins so even my sins in the future are paid for and I am still "perfect." But it is really not me but it is God's grace that has made me perfect. So it all comes back to God and how great He is. i do not have to be perfect myself He makes me that way through His sacrfice.

blackhaw6

[Day]

Originally posted by blackhaw6


Yes it does seem to contradict but I do not think it does. Our sins if not paid for will keep us out of heaven. That is any sin that is not paid for will do it. However our sins our paid for becasue of Jesus' sacrifice. So what I am basically saying is that we only go to heaven because of god's grace. Becasue He sent His son to die and make us "perfect" as far as what God seees when He looks at our lives. Basically that God makes us perfect so that we can have communion with Him. So it is nothing that we do but what He does. He was the sacrifice for all of our sins so even my sins in the future are paid for and I am still "perfect." But it is really not me but it is God's grace that has made me perfect. So it all comes back to God and how great He is. i do not have to be perfect myself He makes me that way through His sacrfice.

blackhaw6

Amen! I got happy when I read this. GOD LOOKS AT ME THROUGH HIS SACRIFICE! THATS AMAZING! I"D BE DEAD IF HE DIDN'T :D