Christian Mystiycs

[VirginBlack]

Hi!
Just a few weeks ago I have read an article in a german christian magazine wich was written by an christian mystic (i have heard that Francis of Asissi was altough one of this people). So I want to know what this "christian mystizcsm" is about. Does anybody know more about this subject?

Be blessed!

[Divinus]

mys·ti·cism
n.
1. a) Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
b) The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
2. A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.

Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

mysticism

\Mys"ti*cism\, n. [Cf. F. mysticisme.] 1. Obscurity of doctrine.

2. (Eccl. Hist.) The doctrine of the Mystics, who professed a pure, sublime, and wholly disinterested devotion, and maintained that they had direct intercourse with the divine Spirit, and aquired a knowledge of God and of spiritual things unattainable by the natural intellect, and such as can not be analyzed or explained.

3. (Philos.) The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc

---

There is no one doctrine of mysticism, as it seems to be more of a personal experience for each mystic. The definitions above seem to sum it up pretty neatly - personal communion with the divine.

-Divinus

[ZiSunka]

Websters:

Main Entry: 1mys·tic
Pronunciation: 'mis-tik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English mistik, from Latin mysticus of mysteries, from Greek mystikos, from mystEs initiate
Date: 14th century
1 : MYSTICAL 1a
2 : of or relating to mysteries or esoteric rites : OCCULT
3 : of or relating to mysticism or mystics
4 a : MYSTERIOUS b : OBSCURE, ENIGMATIC c : inducing a feeling of awe or wonder d : having magical properties

The definitions above seem to sum it up pretty neatly - personal communion with the divine.

The divine WHAT?

[aggie03]

Originally posted by Divinus
mys·ti·cism
n.
1. a) Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
b) The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
2. A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.

Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

mysticism

\Mys"ti*cism\, n. [Cf. F. mysticisme.] 1. Obscurity of doctrine.

2. (Eccl. Hist.) The doctrine of the Mystics, who professed a pure, sublime, and wholly disinterested devotion, and maintained that they had direct intercourse with the divine Spirit, and aquired a knowledge of God and of spiritual things unattainable by the natural intellect, and such as can not be analyzed or explained.

3. (Philos.) The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc

---

There is no one doctrine of mysticism, as it seems to be more of a personal experience for each mystic. The definitions above seem to sum it up pretty neatly - personal communion with the divine.

-Divinus [/B]

Christianity is not based on feelings - although feelings are a major part of Christianity - they are not our guides.  Our guide to God is Christ.  He is the mediator of the New Covenant which has been established, and we come to know and love Him through the Gospel.  We are also to obedient to the will of God which we find in His word.  In short, we are to use the Bible as our guide, not our feelings or thoughts or desires.  From the definitions given it sounds like someone who claims to be a mystic is claiming to be a prophet. 

 

[stephen1964]

I'm not too familiar with the suject of mystics; but my understanding is that they are people who have received a special vision from God. An example would be Hildegard of Bingen. For more information about her, see: http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Hildegard_Bingen.htm

[ZiSunka]

Hildegard reported visions that contradicted Biblical teachings. Is everyone who has visions necessarily a "Christian mystic"?

[stephen1964]

I have not read her writings about her visions, but I thought that the church had not branded her as a heretic. I would have to read her to make an educated criticism here. What did she say that contradicted Biblical teachings?
I agree that not everyone who has visions is a Christian Mystic (remember David Koresh?). Still, I do not dismiss all visions as false; I may be blessed to have one myself some day.

[MizDoulos]

Moved the thread from Ecclesiology to this forum for further discussion.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by aggie03
Christianity is not based on feelings - although feelings are a major part of Christianity - they are not our guides.  Our guide to God is Christ.  He is the mediator of the New Covenant which has been established, and we come to know and love Him through the Gospel.  We are also to obedient to the will of God which we find in His word.  In short, we are to use the Bible as our guide, not our feelings or thoughts or desires.  From the definitions given it sounds like someone who claims to be a mystic is claiming to be a prophet. 

 

Mystic's and prophets of God are NOT of the same source nor are they the same thing.  The source of the former is evil. The source of the latter is God. 

It's impossible to be Christian and mystic.  If the person is truly a Christian they need to get their termonilogy straightened out.  It does make a difference.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by stephen1964
I have not read her writings about her visions, but I thought that the church had not branded her as a heretic. I would have to read her to make an educated criticism here. What did she say that contradicted Biblical teachings?
I agree that not everyone who has visions is a Christian Mystic (remember David Koresh?). Still, I do not dismiss all visions as false; I may be blessed to have one myself some day.

She was subject to many migraine headaches during which she would have visions of luminous objects floating in the air around her. Sometimes her visions would give her "knowledge" that she claimed she wouldn't have had otherwise, like what it feels like for a woman to have an orgasm during intercourse (her description is extremely detailed, a description that would be considered pronographic even to this day), or that the strength of a man's semen determines not only the sex but the personality of his child. Her visions were often sexual in nature.

Here is one of the many songs she wrote after one of her visions:
"Because, then, a woman prepared death,
an illustrious virgin now subsides it;
and thus the highest blessing
is found in female form,
rather than in any other creature.
For God is made human
in a lovely and blessed virgin."

From Nunc aperuit nobis clausa porta.

Her songs are being recorded by many groups these days, always catalogued under the category of New Age Music. Her visions are largely interpreted as refering to the Mother Earth goddess, rather than the mother of Jesus. Note that the virgin woman is not the mother of God's human form, but His human form herself.

Her visions would hardly be considered Christian in the orthodox sense.

[stephen1964]

It's hard to base any judgement on Hildegard's theology based on the quote you gave. If it is just veneration to Mary, I don't see anything obviously unorthodox, but I'd have to educate myself more on her other writings to give an educated opinion. I'd have to say that if what you say is true, she sounds kind of kooky.

[ZiSunka]

But it's not veneration to Mary. It's worship of Mary as the true savior. Go back and read the lyrics again.

Most of Hildegard's lyrics are so pornographic that CF wouldn't let me post them. Those were the only "clean" stuff I could find written by her.

She wrote hundreds of songs about sex, although she is historically considered a virgin, and about "the goddess" although she is historically considered a Christian. She wrote them in a Christian convent, but they are not Christian in content. Do a search on her and see what comes up. I really can't repeat here on CF a lot of what she wrote. Their filters don't allow it.

[isshinwhat]

A Christian mystic is one who tries through contemplation, Scripture reading, and prayer to discern the will of God and to live that will. Father Benedict Groeschel explains it like this:

God calls us in a thousand different ways in the course of a short space of time. This is an aspect of His grace - or the free, unmerited love he has for His children. One of the secrets of the interior journey is to be sensitive and responsive to the different ways He calls us. The Imitation of Christ gives us this wise insight: "If your heart is pure, every creature will be to you a mirror of God and a book of holy teaching." The real secret of the saints is to listen more attentively and respond ever more faithfully to the invitations of God in everday life.

It would be impossible to give even the most succint list of ways in which Christ summons the Christian soul in what is called the sacrament of the present moment. We have included some of the most obvious ways: the created world, the Bible, the words of great spiritual writers... the experience of the faithful soul, and, finally, marriage.

(The Journey Toward God: In the Footsteps of the Great Spiritual Writers- Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox, Chapter 11)

A Christian mystic is not one who desires visions. One of the great Christian mystics, St. John of the Cross, wrote in The Ascent of Mount Carmel, Book 2, Chapter 22:

Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would not only be guilty of foolish behavior but also of offending Him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty

God could respond as follows: If I have already told you all things in My Word, My Son, and if I have no other word, what answer or revelation can I now make that would surpass this? Fasten your eyes on Him alone, because in Him I have spoken and revealed all, and in Him you shall discover even more than you ask for and desire.

That is true Christian mysticism.

God Bless,

Neal

[ZiSunka]

Good post!

[isshinwhat]

Thank you. :)

[isshinwhat]

and thus the highest blessing
is found in female form,
rather than in any other creature.

This has to be understood in context. In Catholic theology, Mary is considered the most blessed human person by virtue of her becoming the mother of Jesus, who was Himself God in the flesh. This is made clear by her further stating:

For God is made human
in a lovely and blessed virgin.

This does not mean that the virgin was made God, although I can see a New Age fanatic misapplying the statement, it means that God took form in the Virgin Mary; that Christ grew from conception in her womb.

Because, then, a woman prepared death,
an illustrious virgin now subsides it;

This is a allusion to Eve and Mary. Eve, through her disobedience paved the way for sin to enter the world through Adam. Mary, through her accepting of her ministry as Mother of God, had become the chosen vessel for Christ's entry into the world. It is a reference to Genesis 3:15 where a new and obedient Eve was prophecied.

In reference to her sexual symbolism, I can't say anything. Could you provide a link, lambslove? I think the work you quoted was orthodox, just misunderstood, or misapplied, depending upon the situation.

God Bless,

Neal

[Caedmon]

I consider myself an unofficial mystic hopeful... hehe... :) lol

[reAsonX]

I think that Swedenborg and Nostradamus might be consider Christian Mystics, as might Edgar Cayce or Ruth Mongomery.  All these use the name of Jesus and give marginal confession to the gospel. Yet they are all widely considered occult and outside the Christian fold. I believe all such "mystics" are outside the bounds of Biblical Christianity.

[Reader Nilus]

A nice site on Christian Mysticism (http://www.digiserve.com/mystic/Christian/) it has samples of writings of various mystics Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant.
Jeff the Finn