Oxford Movement?

[rainbowbright]

When did it happen? I was Episcopalian for four years and I had never heard of it until after I left. It's just hard for me to imagine the Anglican church having been more like the EOC, how did England get a hold of the Eastern Rite :scratch: ?
Sorry, I hope I don't sound too stupid, I haven't been able to find anything on this and I'm just so curious and was just hoping someone here could give me some type of answer.
Thanks and have a wonderful day!!!

[Fish and Bread]

The Oxford movement was back in the 18th or 19th century. Anglicanism has historically periodically swungs back and forth between emphasizing more Catholic and more Protestant expressions, though it is always a mixture of both to a certain degree. The Oxford movements was an attempt to move towards (Some would say restore, but that isn't universally agreed upon) a more liturgical high-church anglo-catholic mode of belief and practice. Some echos of it can be seen strongly today in Anglo-Catholic parishes in the US and the UK, as well as a generally more liturgical/catholic skew in the average parish than previous existed (There are actually ocassional photos of some bishops wearing suitcoats and ties at services, I'm told, just prior to the Oxford movement -- so some correction was clearly needed. ;)), though it is no longer really an active movement and the high point of it's influence has come and gone, with the evangelical and liberal movements being the ones that are growing the fastest nowadays. In other words, the pendulum's swing continues. :) Hopefully, we'll never go back to the days of suitcoat wearing bishops, though. ;)

John

[rainbowbright]

Thanks. some reason I thought I was a told by my former Anglican priest that there used to be icons. So, that's not true? It seems like the Oxford movement was deffinitely a good thing, I thing I would laugh myself out of church if I saw a bishop in a suit and tie ^_^

[Naomi4Christ]

I think the Bishop of Uganda goes without vestments. But rather than a suit and tie, I think he likes a scruffy jumper with darned elbows.

Of course, that's the wonderful Sandy Millar.

[SirTimothy]

Heheh. The Bishop of Tanzania was my favourite... he turned up in our church with a whole bunch of other bishops and clergymen--We had a meeting of the Inter-Anglican Commission on Mission and Evangelism held on the island--in a typical loud african shirt with 'Tanzania' written on it, whether the other bishops were in purple shirts and dog-collars. :)

Timothy

[PaladinValer]

When did it happen? I was Episcopalian for four years and I had never heard of it until after I left.

The Oxford Movement occurred during the early-mid 19th century. The concept was to "recapture" Anglicanism as it was under Henry VIII and potnentially Elizabeth I: simply a reformed Catholic church. Not in doctrine, but in "polity."

Not that such beliefs hadn't existed since; they did. It was simply a sort of "Renaissance" if you will (bad word really to use, including for that it is typically used for today, but I suppose it will do).

It's just hard for me to imagine the Anglican church having been more like the EOC, how did England get a hold of the Eastern Rite?

Fairly early on actually. There has always been several elements that Anglicanism has shared with the East, either because of local culture or through communication to the East. Celtic Christianity was well known for its deep mysticalism, a trait shared deeply by the Eastern Orthodox, to give just one (but powerful) example.

As for a communicative element, I give this fun story: It was through the Episcopal Church of Scotland that the Americans received its very first bishop. It seemed that the Scottish Anglicans had sympathies for their American counterparts, and did want to help them establish their own bishops. But, they had to agree with something: a certain liturgical change during the Liturgy of Holy Communion. To the Scottish Anglicans, it was truer to the original liturgies practiced by the Early Church.

The point of this story? This you will love: it seems that this liturgical change was continued through Eastern Christendom, which is where the Scottish Anglicans got it from, through interaction and trade over centuries.

So for a time, it was really in Scotland and in the budding USA that Anglicans kept to an original piece of liturgy, thanks in part with contact with the East.

[qupte]Sorry, I hope I don't sound too stupid, I haven't been able to find anything on this and I'm just so curious and was just hoping someone here could give me some type of answer.[/quote]

Stupidity is not asking when you don't know. You've shown intelligence, not stupidity. :)

Thanks and have a wonderful day!!!

And to your spirit :)

[gtsecc]

The Church in England was fully Orthodox until 1066.

[rainbowbright]

Heheh. The Bishop of Tanzania was my favourite... he turned up in our church with a whole bunch of other bishops and clergymen--We had a meeting of the Inter-Anglican Commission on Mission and Evangelism held on the island--in a typical loud african shirt with 'Tanzania' written on it, whether the other bishops were in purple shirts and dog-collars. :)

Timothy

Was that Bishop Alpha Mohamed? My Episcopal church had him 'stationed' with us for a whole year while he made rounds to other diocese and we were under him instead of our local bishop that the rector didn't get a long with.

Thanks everyone, I need to get back into reading history.... I keep forgetting England was Orthodox that would make a lot of sense as to how the Eastern rite came to the Anglican church:doh: . I've been doing so much other research on Orthodoxy that I just keep forgetting the western world and my roots so I just need to get caught back up.
Thanks again

[Fish and Bread]

Actually, much of the Eastern Orthodox influence comes from Anglican priests receiving training in Eastern Orthodox seminaries during certain periods in history, thus spreading some of the Eastern ideas into what is primarily a western church. While the Celtic Church seemed to have been similarities to Eastern Orthodoxy, it is very difficult to say how many of those similarities survive in a straight thread to the present day given the fact that a) we know very little about the Celtic Church, so we don't know what the similarities were and thus can't really tell which are surviving similarities and which were introduced later and b) Rome made a concious attempt to squash the traditions of the Celtic Church and force the Church in England to confirm to the traditions of the western patriarcy, so many of the similarities that once existed were likely extinguished. I think the issue would be a lot clearer if we could just get our hands on a mint condition 4th century Celtic Christian religious library. ;)

John

[pmcleanj]

I think the issue would be a lot clearer if we could just get our hands on a mint condition 4th century Celtic Christian religious library. ;)

John
Mmmm ...

Traditional Celtic culture is believed to have placed heavy emphasis on oral transmission. Definately a weakness when it comes to preventing cultural genocide in the face of invasion and persecution.

If only we could just get our hands on a mint condition 4th century Celtic Christian ;)

[Fish and Bread]

If only we could just get our hands on a mint condition 4th century Celtic Christian ;)

After church today, a few folks were discussing the possibility of introducing a Celtic liturgy once a month or on some other regular but not weekly basis. I was a vistor, so I didn't want to risk having an inquiry being misinterpreted as being a criticism, and chose not ask, but I had to wonder on what they'd be basing that liturgy. I'd imagine that they're mostly guesswork. It's interesting to note that the churches which claim to be Celtic nowadays vary wildly from each other -- some being low church evangelicals with two sacraments and some being more similar to Eastern Orthodox. To a certain extent, I wonder if we don't all make the Celts into a sort of mythological version of what we think the perfect church might be like. :)

John

[ahab]

I wonder whether the Anglo-Catholics are any closer to the Roman Catholics than the low church evangleical Anglicans. Not in style perhaps but maybe in theology. ;)

Peace

[AveMaria]

John, my home parish has a once-weekly Celtic service. It's quite informal and laid back, with a bit of Taize music and a bit from Iona.

I did go once, to see what it was all about, but it wasn't my cup of tea - it's very short on liturgy. Apparently, the idea behind this particular service was to be 'seeker friendly'. We're going to re-evaluate it after 6 months and see whether or not it's bearing fruit. (It replaced what had been the contemporary music service, which was so scarcely attended as to be nearly dead).