Some help please with BCP

[ChessCastle]

Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far. I am looking for some help understanding some of the terminology and concepts in the BCP. I have found some really helpful websites that list the daily readings, which is very convienient, but the daily readings are the one thing I knew how to look up in the book myself. So here are my questions:

The term 'Daily Office' does this consist of something that is done as a group inside the church or something that is done at home...or both?

One page 136 of my BCP the chapter is called Daily Devotionals for Individuals and Families. These are what I assume are used for private prayer at home, and there is one for morning, noon, evening, and close of day. Are these 4 the devotions used daily by members of the church?

What is a canticle?

What is a collect?

I think thats enough questions for now. Thanks for any help.

CC

[Zacharias]

The term 'Daily Office' does this consist of something that is done as a group inside the church or something that is done at home...or both?
The 'Daily Office' may be done with both.

One page 136 of my BCP the chapter is called Daily Devotionals for Individuals and Families. These are what I assume are used for private prayer at home, and there is one for morning, noon, evening, and close of day.
I believe that you're correct. :)

Are these 4 the devotions used daily by members of the church?
You'll find that some do them and others don't.

What is a canticle?
A song or hymn. :)

What is a collect?
A brief formal prayer that is specific for an occasion or day of the Church year.

God bless, Freak4JC

[PaladinValer]

Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far. I am looking for some help understanding some of the terminology and concepts in the BCP. I have found some really helpful websites that list the daily readings, which is very convienient, but the daily readings are the one thing I knew how to look up in the book myself. So here are my questions:

Ask away. :)

The term 'Daily Office' does this consist of something that is done as a group inside the church or something that is done at home...or both?

Both.

One page 136 of my BCP the chapter is called Daily Devotionals for Individuals and Families. These are what I assume are used for private prayer at home, and there is one for morning, noon, evening, and close of day. Are these 4 the devotions used daily by members of the church?

They can be. It is optional; you may find them of wonderous use.

What is a canticle?

I believe it is a song that is right out of Scripture.

What is a collect?

It is a prayer that includes an invocation, a petition, and a plead to Christ.

I think thats enough questions for now. Thanks for any help.

CC

An excellent resource for you (or for anyone): http://www.holycross.net/anonline.htm

Enjoy! :)

[ChessCastle]

Thanks for the answers. My next question then is what is the difference between the Daily Offices and the Devotionals, as far as when they are performed?

[Naomi4Christ]

Hi Chess,

Might I ask why you want to know about the Daily Office etc.? Are you a new Christian and want to jump right in?

If that's the case (and ignore me if it is not), I would suggest there are better ways to go about bible study habits. There is a wonderful book called "30 days" by the wonderful Nicky Gumbel, which is specifically for new Christians and those who have neglected their bible reading. What it does is takes you through 30 fairly famous bible readings and then explains them to you and asks you questions. By the end of the 30 days, you are ready to do it on your own. Well, bible study is never on your own because you have to start by asking the Holy Spirit to help you open your heart and mind to what the passage is saying.

Most people at our church will buy Bible Study notes, such as "Our Daily Bread" (which I think you can find online too).

[Naomi4Christ]

Hey Chess,

One other thing (now that I've looked over your posts and confirmed that you are a new Christian and new to the episcopal church).

It's really helpful to attend a newcomer's class or find a lay person who can take you through the ins and outs of what happens in the episcopal church. I myself found it unbelievably hard moving from the CofE to Ecusa and was in a trance for several weeks/months as I got to grips the various books (BCP, hymn book, bible - they had no screen in that church) and try to understand all the crossing/genuflecting/kneeling etc., which I never ever did.

[ChessCastle]

Hey Chess,

One other thing (now that I've looked over your posts and confirmed that you are a new Christian and new to the episcopal church).

It's really helpful to attend a newcomer's class or find a lay person who can take you through the ins and outs of what happens in the episcopal church. I myself found it unbelievably hard moving from the CofE to Ecusa and was in a trance for several weeks/months as I got to grips the various books (BCP, hymn book, bible - they had no screen in that church) and try to understand all the crossing/genuflecting/kneeling etc., which I never ever did.

I'm going to see about the class, that sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the tip.

CC

[AveMaria]

Most Episcopal parishes offer newcomers or discover classes several times a year, so I'd be willing to bet there will be one before long.

The fact that the priest is willing to meet with you often and answer your questions is awesome! Don't be afraid of ever asking what you might think is a 'dumb' question, ok?

And if there's anything else we can do to help, just ask. :)

[ChessCastle]

Hi Chess,

Might I ask why you want to know about the Daily Office etc.? Are you a new Christian and want to jump right in?

If that's the case (and ignore me if it is not), I would suggest there are better ways to go about bible study habits. There is a wonderful book called "30 days" by the wonderful Nicky Gumbel, which is specifically for new Christians and those who have neglected their bible reading. What it does is takes you through 30 fairly famous bible readings and then explains them to you and asks you questions. By the end of the 30 days, you are ready to do it on your own. Well, bible study is never on your own because you have to start by asking the Holy Spirit to help you open your heart and mind to what the passage is saying.

Most people at our church will buy Bible Study notes, such as "Our Daily Bread" (which I think you can find online too).

I like the structure of the BCP having daily readings, and not just one or two verses. I have enough time in my day to read and reflect a bit more than that. I also would really like to use them to aid in my prayer and meditation times. I am the kind of person who is greatly helped by somewhat of a schedule.

[Naomi4Christ]

Fair enough, but remember that the Christian faith is a process for most people. You don't have to get there in one day.

Good luck!

[higgs2]

ChessCastle, The devotionals are intended for use in place of the daily office, should you wish something shorter or maybe more suited for personal or family use. My recommendation would be to experiment with all of the options at different times of the day. For example, I love to read compline right before bed but I don't have time to read morning prayer in the morning so the family devotion would be more appropriate for that time of day.

And my advice would be to pick and choose what works for you. If there's a certain prayer that you like from anywhere in the prayer book, then use it when you want.

If you do decide to use the lectionary readings from the back of the book for your private reading, you might enjoy getting "Forward Day by Day" devotional booklets which have a short message to be read each day that corresponds to that day's reading. Your church probably has them, or you can get the day's message online here: http://www.forwardmovement.org/todaysreading.cfm

There is also a link to the lectionary readings on this site. By reading the Sunday readings in advance, you will able to prepare for Sunday's service.


Thanks for the answers. My next question then is what is the difference between the Daily Offices and the Devotionals, as far as when they are performed?

[ChessCastle]

Most Episcopal parishes offer newcomers or discover classes several times a year, so I'd be willing to bet there will be one before long.

The fact that the priest is willing to meet with you often and answer your questions is awesome! Don't be afraid of ever asking what you might think is a 'dumb' question, ok?

And if there's anything else we can do to help, just ask. :)

I'm really glad he's so receptive myself. I'm going to start writing down some of my questions on a pad so I can take them in with me on Friday. I know that priests are busy people so I'm going to try not to take up too much of his time, but he doesn't seem like its a bother for him so I'll feel comforable even with the dumb questions ;)

[ChessCastle]

ChessCastle, The devotionals are intended for use in place of the daily office, should you wish something shorter or maybe more suited for personal or family use. My recommendation would be to experiment with all of the options at different times of the day. For example, I love to read compline right before bed but I don't have time to read morning prayer in the morning so the family devotion would be more appropriate for that time of day.

And my advice would be to pick and choose what works for you. If there's a certain prayer that you like from anywhere in the prayer book, then use it when you want.

If you do decide to use the lectionary readings from the back of the book for your private reading, you might enjoy getting "Forward Day by Day" devotional booklets which have a short message to be read each day that corresponds to that day's reading. Your church probably has them, or you can get the day's message online here: http://www.forwardmovement.org/todaysreading.cfm

There is also a link to the lectionary readings on this site. By reading the Sunday readings in advance, you will able to prepare for Sunday's service.

Thanks for the great link. I think if the church does not carry the pamphlet I will subscribe to it. Thanks for mentioning compline...I had to find it to see what you were talking about and it is great reading!

CC

[SirTimothy]

I'm really glad he's so receptive myself. I'm going to start writing down some of my questions on a pad so I can take them in with me on Friday. I know that priests are busy people so I'm going to try not to take up too much of his time, but he doesn't seem like its a bother for him so I'll feel comforable even with the dumb questions

Well, yes, he's very busy. With people like you, hopefully. A priest is supposed to be many things, but above all, he's called to look after his congregation, and teach them about the faith, both one-on-one and as a congregation on a Sunday morning. So don't be afraid to take up time--if you go in for baptism, you'll likely be meeting him weekly, also for confirmation, ditto.

Timothy

[Lel]

I'm really glad he's so receptive myself. I'm going to start writing down some of my questions on a pad so I can take them in with me on Friday. I know that priests are busy people so I'm going to try not to take up too much of his time, but he doesn't seem like its a bother for him so I'll feel comforable even with the dumb questions ;)

I'm so glad you found a receptive priest! I was so much more in awe that I felt that I had to learn all about Episcopalianism before meeting the rector. Then again, I don't think the rector expected that, but hey, nobody expects me! :eek:

Don't worry about understanding the whole BCP yet. I'm still working my way through getting it. I figure that as long as I can follow the Holy Eucharist (Rite I or Rite II, depending on the service I am attending), I'm doing okay!

[gtsecc]

Paul was constantly proving who Christ was using the Old Testament.
The Lectionary pulls together the Old and New Testament in a way so that we can see Christ in the OT. All members of the Church readign the Bible together is a powerful tool for unity. I would strongly suggest following the Daily Office - which is put forth by the wisdom of the Church. I also strongly recommend attendign evening prayer regularly, so you can pray scripture in unity with other Christians.

[ChessCastle]

Paul was constantly proving who Christ was using the Old Testament.
The Lectionary pulls together the Old and New Testament in a way so that we can see Christ in the OT. All members of the Church readign the Bible together is a powerful tool for unity. I would strongly suggest following the Daily Office - which is put forth by the wisdom of the Church. I also strongly recommend attendign evening prayer regularly, so you can pray scripture in unity with other Christians.

I figured the suggested reading had to kind of rhyme or reason, thats why I want to follow along rather than make up my own system. I would really like to attend evening prayers but work hours conflict. The evening prayer is only done on wednesday..is this common? On the plus side I will be able to make morning prayer (which is also only on wednesday).

[gtsecc]

I figured the suggested reading had to kind of rhyme or reason, thats why I want to follow along rather than make up my own system. I would really like to attend evening prayers but work hours conflict. The evening prayer is only done on wednesday..is this common? On the plus side I will be able to make morning prayer (which is also only on wednesday).
I would be willing to bet that some parish in your town offers evenign prayer everyday. Where do you live?

[pmcleanj]

I would be willing to bet that some parish in your town offers evenign prayer everyday. Where do you live?
You'd be making a sucker bet if you did!

I check out churches and church websites when I travel on business, and I travel to a lot of destinations in the West, both Canada and the U.S. There are many major cities, never mind the smaller towns, where there is no evening prayer service, any day of the week.

I'd like to see it -- I dream of having morning and evening prayer both available, as described in the Rubrics to the 1662 BCP, every day , openly in the Church, with a bell rung so that "the people may come to take part in the Service, or at least may lift up their hearts to God in the midst of their occupations." But attendance at non-Sunday services (other than corporate eucharists for various parish groups) tends to be sparse to non-existant, which may be why that rubric is so often honoured more in the breech than in the keeping.

[AveMaria]

I'd like to see it -- I dream of having morning and evening prayer both available, as described in the Rubrics to the 1662 BCP, every day , openly in the Church, with a bell rung so that "the people may come to take part in the Service, or at least may lift up their hearts to God in the midst of their occupations." But attendance at non-Sunday services (other than corporate eucharists for various parish groups) tends to be sparse to non-existant, which may be why that rubric is so often honoured more in the breech than in the keeping.

I feel very blessed to have access to this, although usually not the 1662 BCP!

[ChessCastle]

You'd be making a sucker bet if you did!

I check out churches and church websites when I travel on business, and I travel to a lot of destinations in the West, both Canada and the U.S. There are many major cities, never mind the smaller towns, where there is no evening prayer service, any day of the week.

I'd like to see it -- I dream of having morning and evening prayer both available, as described in the Rubrics to the 1662 BCP, every day , openly in the Church, with a bell rung so that "the people may come to take part in the Service, or at least may lift up their hearts to God in the midst of their occupations." But attendance at non-Sunday services (other than corporate eucharists for various parish groups) tends to be sparse to non-existant, which may be why that rubric is so often honoured more in the breech than in the keeping.

You are correct, there is only one Episcopal Church in my city and services are held on Sundays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I wish there were more times available but I'm grateful for whats there now.

[PaladinValer]

More services than what I have, although my parish is adding a Saturday Mass, and the later-morning Wednesday Mass with Bible Study is returning this week, though I will not be able to attend until next year :(