Lost on christian marriages

[PorcelainHeart]

I'm not married yet, but I heard from so many guys that GOD allows men to have tons of wives, for some reason that upsets me and gives me no hope on GOD or my future. I don't know why I take it as bad as I do, I always thought GOD wanted a marriage of two, and not one man and tons of wives. I guess I got GOD wrong.

[2lplvr]

God's best is what we see in Genesis with Adam and Eve, one man and one woman.

Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

[rosenherman]

I'm not married yet, but I heard from so many guys that GOD allows men to have tons of wives, for some reason that upsets me and gives me no hope on GOD or my future. I don't know why I take it as bad as I do, I always thought GOD wanted a marriage of two, and not one man and tons of wives. I guess I got GOD wrong.
Naw, the guys got it wrong. You got God right.

[PorcelainHeart]

Thanks for the help, I just get confused with others religous beliefs. I don't believe in stuff like that, and don't understand why someone would want more then one wife. Most the men can't handle the wives they have now.

[twistedsketch]

You're probably talking to Mormons. Mormons are not Christians.

[Linnis]

Actually the Mormon church is against polgamy many years ago now and they are christians although I do not agree with the Book of Mormon. Some people choose to practise it but they are seperate of the Mormon church as far as I know from TV.

Also most things in the Old Testament, got canceled out by the New Testament so the whole many wives thing doesn't apply, also, you have to think in context of the time the Bible was written when women had no rights no status and the bible was written by men like Paul and John and while they were prophets, they were still effected by the world. Or at least I think we should think in context...that's all IMO.

[twistedsketch]

Actually the Mormon church is against polgamy many years ago now and they are christians although I do not agree with the Book of Mormon. Some people choose to practise it but they are seperate of the Mormon church as far as I know from TV.
There are multiple factions.

[PorcelainHeart]

Actually the guys I've talked to are christians, they just believe more into the old testament. They go strictly by the bible, and believe that women should stay home and have babies. Some of them even say Jesus has many wives, I have a feeling they are using the bible for their own needs. They feel if they say it's from the bible women will believe it. Some religions women are treated like they have no mind for theirselves. I think women are just as powerful or not more. GOD gave women many special talents, and they have a right to use them. I believe marriage is two not more. Thanks for the help everyone. I feel better now.

[Linnis]

Many people over the years have twisted the Bible to make it say anything they want it to which is why I said what I did about context. The Bible has it's historical context and that shouldn't be over looked and while some do I wouldn't hold that against all Christians.

Maybe some factions of Mormons still do practise many wives but the Mormon church, does not and has not for a while. I'm sure you can find people of every sect who claim to be of that sect yet they do weird things like torture and killing sheep, yet again I'll point out you can't hold some "odd" beliefs of some against the whole.

[PorcelainHeart]

I read online about one preacher telling people Jesus had many wives so they can. I guess when GOD meant false teaches he meant the people who will twist the bible to meet their own needs. I don't know much about the moron religion, so I don't know the rules.

[Aningat]

cross-preacher.com

[twistedsketch]

Actually the guys I've talked to are christians, they just believe more into the old testament. They go strictly by the bible, and believe that women should stay home and have babies. Some of them even say Jesus has many wives, I have a feeling they are using the bible for their own needs. They feel if they say it's from the bible women will believe it.
Fits the profile for Mormons exactly. Maybe it's an offshoot of the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) that dislikes that main sect. They do exist.

The only other possibility would be if they are from Western Africa. There was a missionary who reached many people in that area - problem was he had no problem with the existing polygamy. However, he did NOT teach that Jesus even had one wife, let alone many. William Wade Harris was his name.

[ceedaisy]

Actually the guys I've talked to are christians, they just believe more into the old testament. They go strictly by the bible, and believe that women should stay home and have babies. Some of them even say Jesus has many wives, I have a feeling they are using the bible for their own needs. They feel if they say it's from the bible women will believe it. Some religions women are treated like they have no mind for theirselves. I think women are just as powerful or not more. GOD gave women many special talents, and they have a right to use them. I believe marriage is two not more. Thanks for the help everyone. I feel better now.

You stay and keep your convictions!! You are right to think that women are just as powerful. God did not create us to be slaves or nothing but baby makers. The boys you refer to, are indeed being selfish and looking to control the home. A husband should love his wife and respect her. And she should do the same. They have no grip on what a mature relationship is. And the next time they tell you that hogwash, tell them to grow up and quote the verse about being one flesh and that the Bible did not say "and thy woman shall be man's slave".:preach: :amen:

[Called2Grace]

I don't know much about the moron religion, so I don't know the rules.

Sorry, but I had to laugh, the moron religion! ;)

Freudian slip?

[twistedsketch]

Sorry, but I had to laugh, the moron religion! ;)

Freudian slip?
That's an old joke, really.

[Called2Grace]

That's an old joke, really.

Oh Sorry....I'm a newbie....:blush:

[Linnis]

I do not think it's nice to use that joke. Someone may be a Mormon here and even if there isn't a single Mormon present, I think the "joke" is in bad taste.


Christian marriage as told in the Bible is a promise between one man and one women with God. It's something I hold very sacred and very dear to my heart.

[Tenorvoice]

MOD HAT ON



http://www.stetsonhat.com/wstrn6.jpg

Alright everyone, lets not turn this into a debate about the Mormons. Also this is getting boarderline in violation of rule 4.2c
4.2You will restrict any posts relating to the following controversial topics to the Philosophy & Morality, Liberal Theology or Christian Philosophy forums (this site uses the scriptural definition of marriage which is a union between a man and a woman):

c. polygamy.

That is not the OP's question. Lest get this thread back on track here.

MOD HAT OFF

[sprky777]

First, the old testament did have many examples of men having more than one wife. God also said not to multiply wives so Solomon having 1000 wives and concubines was excess. Gods law also regulated how a man was to treat his plural wives regarding property and inheritance.

So it is wrong for those men to suggest that they can have 'tons' of wives. When they marry their first wife they are to love her as themselves, they become one so a man that disrespects his wife disrespects himself. That said, if the first wife agrees to have a second wife join their union, God has no prohibition against it.

Some women in some cultures actually encourage their husband to take a second wife so they can share in the household responsibilities. Missionaries in Africa and some asian areas have to deal with conversion of polygynous families to Christianity. Gods word teaches specifically against divorce and putting away so it would be better for these families to keep their wives. A wife that is put away would have to remain celebate for the rest of her former husbands life, that would not be fair or just to her.

[woobadooba]

People like to justify an act simply because it was carried out by men of God in the Bible, but does that it make it right? For example, was it right for David to have so many wives?

The Bible says, in reference to a king, "he shall not multiply wives for himself..."Deuteronomy 17:17

So there you have it! It wasn't right.

Now, if it isn't right for a king to multiply wives for himself it isn't going to be right for anyone else.

Also, concerning Adam and Eve, they became one flesh. And that is the ideal of marriage, that the couple become one flesh. In other words, they share an intimacy between each other that is more than a typical friendship.


And really, how can a man become one flesh with a woman when he has so many other wives to become one flesh with? Do you see my point?

He can't become one flesh with any one woman because he is sharing himself with so many women!


These guys that are telling you that it is Biblical are wrong. And to be quite frank with you, I wouldn't trust them to teach you what the Bible says about anything, since they are using it as a tool to suffice the needs of the carnal nature!


Allow those who are well-balanced in the truth to teach you. But you should study for yourself. Even somone who may appear to be holy on the surface could be, as Jesus would say, a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing.


It is always best to study for yourself. Allow others to teach you, yes, but make sure you take everything that they tell you to the word of God, and that you do that prayerfully, to see if what they are saying is actually something that is according to the will of God.

[kittystrawberry]

God said we must put him above all our desire. I just know that I would not want to be in a marriage where I am sharing my husband with his other wife. I would not feel comfortable with that idea, either. I don't know why the Mormon have many wives.

[californiadreamin]

Do you read the Bible? You must read the Bible to know God's way of doing things. Also you have the Holy Spirit who gives you discernment. Never take someone's word about anything, but compare all things with God's word. His word is final. You have to dig into God's word for His word holds many treasures. Seek GODLY wisdom.

[lordlover]

It was only intented for man to have one wife

[sprky777]

...For example, was it right for David to have so many wives? The Bible says, in reference to a king, "he shall not multiply wives for himself..."Deuteronomy 17:17
also, Deuteronomy 17:16But he shall not multiply horses to himself... 17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

So, a KING couldn't have more than one horse, or more than one wife or more than one piece of silver and gold?
I think the issue here is quantity, having a few wives such as David or having EXCESSIVE wives like Solomon.
Now, if it isn't right for a king to multiply wives for himself it isn't going to be right for anyone else.
A king was given specific guidelines to follow that only applied to the king. For example, the king had to hand write a copy of Gods law that was kept by the Levitical priests. That way he could read it for himself every day. Obviously that command didn't apply to every man.
concerning Adam and Eve, they became one flesh. And that is the ideal of marriage, that the couple become one flesh. In other words, they share an intimacy between each other that is more than a typical friendship.
A man that goes into a prostitute becomes one flesh with a harlot... 1Cor 6:16. Becoming one flesh is Gods way of commanding permanance to a relationship. It encouraged responsibility and reduced disease. A man with two wives is still one with them since they will never part.
It is always best to study for yourself. Allow others to teach you, yes, but make sure you take everything that they tell you to the word of God, and that you do that prayerfully, to see if what they are saying is actually something that is according to the will of God. True, but also don't let understanding of scripture be colored by current culture. (for example, 'it was ok then but it's different now). For a time, and to some extent now, missionaries would go into African villages and force men to divorce their polygamous wives before baptizing them. They destroyed functional families because of 'good intentions'. When God intended for man and wife to stay together. Even when a man effectively 'raped' a virgin he was commanded to take her as his wife and keep her. God intented a union to be permanent. We as a society have cheapened sex down to the level of entertainment. We have made marriages a convenience that we can dispose of when we no longer feel comfortable.
It was only intented for man to have one wife
God intended for man to treat his wife with respect and to love her as himself. It is not specified that a man can have only one wife unless he seeks office as a deacon or bishop. We can either see Gods examples in his word or we can make assumptions as to what God intended.

[PorcelainHeart]

I think it's a turn off if a man has more then one wife, and it's also unfair. I don't want to share my husband.

[twistedsketch]

It is not specified that a man can have only one wife unless he seeks office as a deacon or bishop. We can either see Gods examples in his word or we can make assumptions as to what God intended.
However, if you look at the passages that outline the standards for such offices, you will see that they are all standards that every Christian man is to abide by and aspire to. Paul didn't want bad leadership by example. He was outlining Christlike qualities that we are all to follow (and while Christ never married, He did emphasize TWO people becoming ONE flesh and anything beyond that was adultery). Rather than having two different standards for the way Christians are to act, we have one. And those who faithfully uphold that standard in key areas can be considered whether they are eligible for leadership.

[sprky777]

However, if you look at the passages that outline the standards for such offices, you will see that they are all standards that every Christian man is to abide by and aspire to...Rather than having two different standards for the way Christians are to act, we have one...Actually, that section of scripture defines at least TWO classes itself. Those that remain single or celibate by choice and those that marry rather than burn with desire. Now by adding polygyny we have a third class of 'married with more than one wife'. So only those married with one wife are suitable for office, unmarried and polygynous men are not. So should all men take a wife so that they may be qualified to be deacons or bishops? Or should some remain celibate and some take more than one wife?
(and while Christ never married, He did emphasize TWO people becoming ONE flesh and anything beyond that was adultery)The TWO becoming ONE flesh refers to permanence, not to be separated by man. When a man takes a second wife she also becomes one with him. Now the three are one, never to be separated by man. Adultery is specifically defined as having the wife of another man. Jesus also ADDED the circumstance of a man DIVORCING a wife and marrying another.

[sprky777]

I think it's a turn off if a man has more then one wife, and it's also unfair. I don't want to share my husband.That is why the first wife must approve of a second wife. The husband and wife are one and he must love her as himself. If he knows she doesn't accept a second wife then it would be disrespectful and he would be harming her by bringing another wife into their relationship. The wife does have 'veto' power.

So you and your husband may live happily ever after as two commited people. Polygyny is no threat to you. Actually, those men that take multiple wives will give you the advantage of less competition for monogamous males.

[twistedsketch]

Actually, that section of scripture defines at least TWO classes itself. Those that remain single or celibate by choice and those that marry rather than burn with desire.
Wrong passage, different context. There is no class division here. Whether one chooses to marry or not does not make them more or less of a Christian. 1 Corinthians 7 simply makes the point that those who remain single have advantages from a PRACTICAL standpoint - less attachments, allowing you to serve in more ways. There is no class division here at all.

Now by adding polygyny we have a third class of 'married with more than one wife'. So only those married with one wife are suitable for office, unmarried and polygynous men are not. So should all men take a wife so that they may be qualified to be deacons or bishops? Or should some remain celibate and some take more than one wife?
Paul is clearly limiting the amount of wives a deacon or elder is to have being one. Since Paul was single and yet an elder, so that choice remains open. However, nothing in Scripture shows that polygamy is a legitimate choice for the Christian.


The TWO becoming ONE flesh refers to permanence, not to be separated by man.
That I'll give you, but that's not all it means.


When a man takes a second wife she also becomes one with him. Now the three are one
Which is never spoken well of in Scripture, though marraige of two and only two is.

Adultery is specifically defined as having the wife of another man.
She doesn't have to be married for it to be adultery. If you are married and she is not, that is adultery.

Jesus also ADDED the circumstance of a man DIVORCING a wife and marrying another.
If and only if she committed adultery.

That is why the first wife must approve of a second wife. The husband and wife are one and he must love her as himself. If he knows she doesn't accept a second wife then it would be disrespectful and he would be harming her by bringing another wife into their relationship. The wife does have 'veto' power.
So when would she find this out? After the man has found and decided on another girl? He would have been running around her back, CHEATING before this came to his wife's attention. You can't have a third spouse without adultery happening somewhere down the line.

So you and your husband may live happily ever after as two commited people. Polygyny is no threat to you. Actually, those men that take multiple wives will give you the advantage of less competition for monogamous males.
Maybe you should read the accounts of Hannah and Penninah or of Jacob's wives. Those were not happy homes.

[Linnis]

I believe that the rules God gaves Moses we're discounted by Jesus in the New Testament for Christians. You can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm drawing a blank as to the scripture reference at this moment.

Also, the multiple wives thing must be taken into context, that the time of the OT, the adverage life span was 25-30. 3 in 5 children didn't live to be adults, MANY women died in child birth etc etc, many wives and many off spring were needed to ensure even 2 or 3 children would live to pass on the family bloodline.

People can misuse the Bible any way they wish, a true Christian marriage the way God wanted it to be *is* one man, one woman, that's it. Period.

[sprky777]

...Also, the multiple wives thing must be taken into context, that the time of the OT, the adverage life span was 25-30. 3 in 5 children didn't live to be adults, MANY women died in child birth etc etc, many wives and many off spring were needed to ensure even 2 or 3 children would live to pass on the family bloodline.
Actually, in the time of the patriarchs, Moses, Abraham and their children, they lived well over 100 years of age. Their children did also and they had many children. Reading through the geneologies may be tedious but it is very informative. Just try to draw up a family tree from the OT sometime.

One hero of the bible for example:
Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives. ... 32 And Gideon the son of Joash died in a good old age, and was buried in the sepulchre of Joash his father, in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

[Live2Worship]

Well first off Mormons, of any faction, are NOT Christians!!!

And these guys that say God aloows many ives are wrong!!!! God did intend for one man and one woman. He also disapproved of divorce but in the OT it was allowed because the people conplained so much to Moses God got tired of it and did allow divorce.

Besides we are no longer under the law (OT) but under grace!

[sprky777]

Well first off Mormons, of any faction, are NOT Christians!!!
I agree with you that the Mormons do have problems in the way they believe in Christ.

The issue of polygyny is not exclusive to the Mormons. It is an evangelical Christian issue. A reformationist issue.

Even Martin Luther, the reformationist originator of the Lutheran Church endorsed Christian polygyny.

Here is another example of righteous polygyny by a priest:
2 Chronicles 24

... 2And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.

3And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.

... 15But Jehoiada waxed old, and was full of days when he died; an hundred and thirty years old was he when he died.

16And they buried him in the city of David among the kings, because he had done good in Israel, both toward God, and toward his house.



Just because polygyny existed in the OT doesn't tie it to the OT law or NT grace. OT law regulated polygyny and treatment of inheritances. So those that practiced polygyny in the NT should have to follow the same rules as applied to their wives and children. Fair and equitable treatment was still required.

It wasn't scripture or Christians that prohibited polygyny but the Romans.

[wis]

It's shown in the OT that the families which the hasband had more than 1 wives had no peace and had much problems. The wives were jealous at each other, the husbands were not able to handle the conflicts or they even do nothing to creat peace. For example, Abraham's familiy : Sarah and Hagar, Jacob's family : Leah and Rachel, Elkanah's family : Hannah and Peninnah. I think God wants to show His love and His peace to the world through the example of christians' families which the husbands and wives are honest, loyal and love each other. God wants us to be different from the world. Unlike animals, the relationship between husband and wife is based on God's love, commitment and sacrifice not sexual drive, lust and selfishness. So I think God's family contains one husband and one wife.

If the man has more than one wife, he should manage his wive and his children well. However, in this imperfect world, I've never seen any man who can manage well.

[sprky777]

It's shown in the OT that the families which the hasband had more than 1 wives had no peace and had much problems.
Scripture points out problems so we can learn from their examples. Jealousy and strife cause problems. Don't be jealous. If you cannot control your jealousy then don't enter situations where it will arise.
...the husbands and wives are honest, loyal and love each other. exactly. Two wives should love each other also. Just as their can be strife among siblings that doesn't mean they can't love and respect each other.
I've never seen any man who can manage well.
So any of the examples you can find where the wives did not get along with each other, they didn't bear any responsibility for self control? A woman that seeks strife will find it if she has to make it herself. Just as a parent with their children, a husband should rise above petty squabbles and try to resolve issues between his wives. But, his wives must also be mature enough to do their parts.

[twistedsketch]

Scripture points out problems so we can learn from their examples. Jealousy and strife cause problems. Don't be jealous. If you cannot control your jealousy then don't enter situations where it will arise.
exactly. Two wives should love each other also. Just as their can be strife among siblings that doesn't mean they can't love and respect each other.

So any of the examples you can find where the wives did not get along with each other, they didn't bear any responsibility for self control? A woman that seeks strife will find it if she has to make it herself. Just as a parent with their children, a husband should rise above petty squabbles and try to resolve issues between his wives. But, his wives must also be mature enough to do their parts.
You're chasing a pipe dream here. Polygamy always causes jealousy and strife at one level or another. It is clearly not what God designed for marraige.

[mysparrow]

I read online about one preacher telling people Jesus had many wives so they can. I guess when GOD meant false teaches he meant the people who will twist the bible to meet their own needs. I don't know much about the moron religion, so I don't know the rules.
Anything you are told by anyone , including preachers etc , compare it to the word of God , if it doesnt say so in there , its not truth, period . And for the record, Jesus didnt have ANY wives at all.:) :hug:

[sprky777]

...Jesus didnt have ANY wives at all.:) :hug:
I read online about one preacher telling people Jesus had many wives so they can...
Well, the closest scripture comes to even mentioning wives and Christ at the same time is when he tells the parable of the 10 virgins. This is a parable and in no way implies that these were to literally be His wives. Although that is a polygynous analogy.
Now, the 7 churches were said to be his brides so that may be another source. And of course, all faithful Christians are the brides of Christ so I guess you could say He has many wives. Also a polygynous analogy.
But a literal, physical woman that Jesus was joined to in the bounds of husband and wife?... not in scripture.
In Ezekiel 23 God is portrayed as having two wives. Would God present himself as sining even in an analogy?

[Lionroot]

Greetings Marmaladegirl,

Paul writes, it is better to marry than to burn with passion. He goes on to recommend that single women marry, and he warns that some who have not married have left the faith. In another place he writes, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. So this leaves the believing single woman with a directive to marry a believing man.

Unfortunately many women cannot find a believing man that is not already married, after all they are in high demand among Godly women. So what is such a woman to do? Women who hold to monogamy only, frequently lower their standards, and run after unbelievers and do as Paul says, wander from the faith.

Should men have "tons of wives". No, even the king of Israel wasn't supposed to have many wives. Thats not a limit of one but its not a "ton" either. The Bible tells us that if a man takes another wife he must not diminish the first wifes food, clothing, or marital rights.

This subject really begs the question, will we hang on to our traditions, or will we heed the light of the scriptures. Women must prepare themselves for the fact that there just are not enough godly men out there, and if your going to stay single, i hope your not burning with desire, and in all cases I pray you are serving the LORD.


God Bless,

Robert

I'm not married yet, but I heard from so many guys that GOD allows men to have tons of wives, for some reason that upsets me and gives me no hope on GOD or my future. I don't know why I take it as bad as I do, I always thought GOD wanted a marriage of two, and not one man and tons of wives. I guess I got GOD wrong.

[Lionroot]

greetings woobadooba,

Of couse this is the wrong place to debate the central issue. Still I think its ok if we touch on your questions.

People like to justify an act simply because it was carried out by men of God in the Bible, but does that it make it right?

No, not neccessarily. However when we talk about men like Moses, whom the LORD says, I speak to him face to face, then we know that he has special insight into God's will. or Men like David, who were held up by God as an example to others. Consider Abraham and Sarah were given as an example to those who "follow after righteousness". These people were given by the Lord, in his own words, as examples, so what they did cannot be discounted, because God says so.

...was it right for David to have so many wives?
Would it have been right for David to turn them down? God says he gave David his wives, and if they had not been enough he would have given him even more. Would you turn down the gifts that God gave you?


The Bible says, in reference to a king, "he shall not multiply wives for himself..."Deuteronomy 17:17

So there you have it! It wasn't right.

Now, if it isn't right for a king to multiply wives for himself it isn't going to be right for anyone else.

So then I have one question for you. How many horses can the King of Israel have?

The Bible says, "..he shall not multiply horses to himself..." Deuteronomy 17:16


So there you have it. By your own reconing (if you are going to be consistent) it wasn't right for the King of Israel to have more than one horse. Now, if it isn't right for a king to multiply horses for himself it isn't going to be right for anyone else. Right?

It is always best to study for yourself.
I could not agree with you more. It is so important to study the word for yourself. That way when people post things out of context, you can know your being led astray.

God Bless,

Robert


People like to justify an act simply because it was carried out by men of God in the Bible, but does that it make it right? For example, was it right for David to have so many wives?

The Bible says, in reference to a king, "he shall not multiply wives for himself..."Deuteronomy 17:17

So there you have it! It wasn't right.

Now, if it isn't right for a king to multiply wives for himself it isn't going to be right for anyone else.

Also, concerning Adam and Eve, they became one flesh. And that is the ideal of marriage, that the couple become one flesh. In other words, they share an intimacy between each other that is more than a typical friendship.


And really, how can a man become one flesh with a woman when he has so many other wives to become one flesh with? Do you see my point?

He can't become one flesh with any one woman because he is sharing himself with so many women!


These guys that are telling you that it is Biblical are wrong. And to be quite frank with you, I wouldn't trust them to teach you what the Bible says about anything, since they are using it as a tool to suffice the needs of the carnal nature!


Allow those who are well-balanced in the truth to teach you. But you should study for yourself. Even somone who may appear to be holy on the surface could be, as Jesus would say, a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing.


It is always best to study for yourself. Allow others to teach you, yes, but make sure you take everything that they tell you to the word of God, and that you do that prayerfully, to see if what they are saying is actually something that is according to the will of God.