Our Anglican founding fathers are turning over in their graves!

[romaneagle13]

rant deleted, humbly beg apologies from all. :sorry:

[Finella]

What is wrong with this country?! Forgive me all, but I feel the need to vent with other Christians.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20050914/1519611288.htm&ewp=ewp_news_0905pledge

Why are the courts allowing the atheists to ruin the country? America was founded by a group of largely Anglican men, who sought to make a democratic land that is ruled by a majority and allows freedom of religion. Most of the original settlers in this land were Christians of some sort (Catholics, Puritans, Huguenots, etc). The country was founded on Christian ideals that they all believed in. The majority of this country is still Christian, the atheists are a minority. Yet the courts cater to them.

Atheist lawyer Michael Newdow is still arguing in defense of all these poor children who are being so put upon by the schools requiring them to say the Pledge of Allegiance because the words "under God" is in it. He argued in a previous case (which he lost) that his daughter shouldn't have to say those words. His ex-wife, who has custody of the little girl, is a Christian and has raised their daughter as one, and she wants her daughter to acknowledge the presence of the Almighty.

Why do the atheists have to get their way? They are infringing on the religious right of the God-believing majority (Christians, Jews, Muslims). Who is going to defend us against the few non-believers who have to make a fuss and get God taken out of everything in society?

I pray Michael Newdow will get his when he passes out of this world and God says to him, "sorry Michael, I can't let you into heaven. You don't believe in me, therefore you can't believe in heaven. Because me and heaven are inseparable!"

Why do the minority get "their way"? Because the majority shall not create a tyranny over the minority. That was actually the point of the founding fathers -- they did not want a majority view to dictate to the rest of the nation what everyone should do. That's why they fled England.

And hey, I'm a Christian and I find the Pledge offensive. I don't think I should be required to pledge allegiance to a nation (if anything, my allegiance is to God only), and I don't think God appreciates being dragged into it.

And no one's right to practice his/her religion in the classroom is being infringed upon here -- each individual has the right to pray and practice his/her beliefs and customs. It's when the State sanctions religion and belief systems that you get problems with the Constitution.

[Aymn27]

Why do the minority get "their way"? Because the majority shall not create a tyranny over the minority. That was actually the point of the founding fathers -- they did not want a majority view to dictate to the rest of the nation what everyone should do. That's why they fled England.

And hey, I'm a Christian and I find the Pledge offensive. I don't think I should be required to pledge allegiance to a nation (if anything, my allegiance is to God only), and I don't think God appreciates being dragged into it.

And no one's right to practice his/her religion in the classroom is being infringed upon here -- each individual has the right to pray and practice his/her beliefs and customs. It's when the State sanctions religion and belief systems that you get problems with the Constitution.
You can count this as one time I actually agree with you!! LOL;)
The pledge is not some "time honored" tradition - and I think it's a little strange "pledging allegiance to a flag..." indeed, my allegiance is to no earthly power. Furthermore, the entire development of the pledge and it's entry into the public school system (I won't even get into what I think of that) was from a socialist with Nazi sympathies. If you look at early pictures of students saying the pledge, it is with a "heil" arm outstretched reminiscent of the Nazi Youth. http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

[Fish and Bread]

With church and state issues, I usually find it helpful to think of things from as if I were a Christian in a Muslim country or a militantly atheist nation. In this case, a similar situation would be if we all lived in a nation that required us to recite a pledge that mentions that God doesn't exist. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. It'd be an infringement of my right to practice my religion. Likewise, I feel requiring students to attend a school where they are required to pledge to the existence of God, essentially, under great social pressure, is violating their right to deny the existence of God. God doesn't force us to believe in Him, he gives everyone free will, and we ought to respect that by making sure people have freedom to practice the religion of their choice or to decline from practicing any religion at all.

Besides, the phrase "under God" was not in the original pledge. It was added by the Knights of Columbus during the Cold War for political purposes, to draw a contrast between the "God fearing" United States and the "evil" Soviet Union.

John

[Lel]

Furthermore, saying the pledge is not going to make anyone believe in God. Likewise, not saying the pledge probably isn't going to shake anyone's faith in God.

The US is a secular nation and religion seems to be doing just fine.

[PaladinValer]

I'd argue that the Pledge should be voluntary, which it is already.

I do believe, however, that it should return to its...purest form, although those who wish to add the (in?)famous clause "under God" are of course allowed to and should be encouraged to.

[IowaLutheran]

Why are the courts allowing the atheists to ruin the country?

If you're worried because you think all courts think this way, you can rest easy tonight. This came from a district court within the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (which encompasses the west coast). There are eleven other circuit courts in the US and the 9th Circuit is always on the fringes, disagreeing with the others on issues like this

If the Supreme Court hears the case on its merits (last time they threw out the case on an issue unrelated to the merits), they will reverse.

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Atheist lawyer Michael Newdow is still arguing in defense of all these poor children who are being so put upon by the schools requiring them to say the Pledge of Allegiance because the words "under God" is in it.

They are infringing on the religious right of the God-believing majority]

I think you need to explain how removing "under God" from the pledge is actually infringing on your religious rights. Where exactly is your right to have all children at school saying "under God" enshrined?

I pray Michael Newdow will get his when he passes out of this world

Rather vindictive, isn't it? Shouldn't you rather be praying that God will have mercy on Newdow and everyone else who doesn't find Him in this life?

[karen freeinchristman]

This came from a district court within the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (which encompasses the west coast). There are eleven other circuit courts in the US and the 9th Circuit is always on the fringes, disagreeing with the others on issues like this


Yay West Coast, especially California, my home state, land of fruit and nuts!

[Finella]

If you're worried because you think all courts think this way, you can rest easy tonight. This came from a district court within the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (which encompasses the west coast). There are eleven other circuit courts in the US and the 9th Circuit is always on the fringes, disagreeing with the others on issues like this

If the Supreme Court hears the case on its merits (last time they threw out the case on an issue unrelated to the merits), they will reverse.

By the way, I understand that this district court had to rule this way because the court above it, the 9th Circuit, had ruled in this way; the district court had to reverse its previous ruling to bring it into line with the court above it.

The way it stands now, the ruling means that saying the Pledge in its current "under God" form is unconstitutional in those school districts mentioned in the litigation. If no further action is taken, then that's the limitations of the ruling.

However, I understand the decision is being appealed again to the 9th Circuit, so there's the risk (for the pro-pledge people) that the 9th Circuit could rule again that it is unconstitutional; and if that is sent to the SCOTUS, then the pledge could be ruled unconstitutional there and, thus, nationwide. So all of this could lead to the pledge being unconstitutional all over instead of just in those school districts.

[Finella]

You can count this as one time I actually agree with you!! LOL;)
The pledge is not some "time honored" tradition - and I think it's a little strange "pledging allegiance to a flag..." indeed, my allegiance is to no earthly power. Furthermore, the entire development of the pledge and it's entry into the public school system (I won't even get into what I think of that) was from a socialist with Nazi sympathies. If you look at early pictures of students saying the pledge, it is with a "heil" arm outstretched reminiscent of the Nazi Youth. http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html
::faints::

:D That's cool that we agree on something, Aymn. :)

When I was a kid, saying the pledge had this Nazi-like feeling to it, too. I just didn't get this "worship the State" thing at all.

[svdbygrace]

You can count this as one time I actually agree with you!! LOL;)
The pledge is not some "time honored" tradition - and I think it's a little strange "pledging allegiance to a flag..." indeed, my allegiance is to no earthly power. Furthermore, the entire development of the pledge and it's entry into the public school system (I won't even get into what I think of that) was from a socialist with Nazi sympathies. If you look at early pictures of students saying the pledge, it is with a "heil" arm outstretched reminiscent of the Nazi Youth. http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

:amen: I always found it strange... but had to do it anyway (say the pledge). I now (in a new school, without such rules) refuse to recite it. I prefere this pledge...

I pledge allegiance to God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again in glory. Amen. ;)

or maybe the traditional ;)

I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag, but above all to the Savior, Our God for whose Kingdom it stands. He was crucified, is now risen, and will come again in glory, his kingdom shall have no end. Amen.