Apostles

[marciebaby]

After Judas committed suicide, Matteas (sp?) was appointed to fill his office as one of the 12 disciples, but other men throughout scripture are referred to as apostles as well.

When does scripture refer to "apostle" as an official title (i.e. one of the 12), or as one who is simply a messenger of Christ? And how does Apostolic succession fit in with all this?

[PaladinValer]

Basically, apostle=bishop.

[Wigglesworth]

The consecration of Matthias to undertake the ministry first assigned to Judas Iscariot is an example of physical apostolic succession as we know it today. Paul's consecration of Timothy is another example. Apostolic succession includes physical succession (the laying on of hands), and succession in faith (teaching and believing what was taught and believed by the one doing the consecrating).

In some passages, it is written that "the twelve" or "the eleven" did something. That clarifies it was the original apostles chosen by Jesus Christ. Other passages refer to "apostles" by name, such as Barnabas, who were not part of the original twelve.

Where Paul identifies himself as an "apostle," I think he is proclaiming that he has as much authority and right as one of the original twelve. Paul was chosen directly by Jesus on the Damascus Road. Where someone other than Paul or the original twleve is identified in Scripture as an apostle, I consider that to be according to the common definition of apostle as simply one sent. A modern missionary is an apostle under this common definition.

I don't think Scripture declares "apostle" to be an official title. It just happens to be the term used to describe his chosen thirteen who exercised the highest authority in the church in the first century. The term refers also to those, in addition to the chosen thirteen, sent to proclaim the Gospel to the world.

[pmcleanj]

After Judas committed suicide, Matteas (sp?) was appointed to fill his office as one of the 12 disciples, but other men throughout scripture are referred to as apostles as well.

When does scripture refer to "apostle" as an official title (i.e. one of the 12), or as one who is simply a messenger of Christ? And how does Apostolic succession fit in with all this?
This usage may indicate -- I think, probably does indicate -- that the ancient church was less rigourous than many modern branches of the church, in forcing people and their roles into rigid categorization.

I've argued the issue of Apostolic succession with my non-Anglican husband a number of times. I think the counterpoint of Saint Paul and Saint Matthias are something of a lesson to us:

Yes, Apostolic Succession is an important source of order and authority for the church. BUT, God has the right and the power also choose successors directly, from unlikely people in unlikely places and imbue them with unlikely ability for an unlikely calling. Who, after all, had more impact on shaping the church for the next two thousand years? The properly-elected liturgically-appointed Matthias? Or the persecutor of Christians who was struck blind in the middle of a dusty thoroughfare?

[Aymn27]

The consecration of Matthias to undertake the ministry first assigned to Judas Iscariot is an example of physical apostolic succession as we know it today. Paul's consecration of Timothy is another example. Apostolic succession includes physical succession (the laying on of hands), and succession in faith (teaching and believing what was taught and believed by the one doing the consecrating).

In some passages, it is written that "the twelve" or "the eleven" did something. That clarifies it was the original apostles chosen by Jesus Christ. Other passages refer to "apostles" by name, such as Barnabas, who were not part of the original twelve.

Where Paul identifies himself as an "apostle," I think he is proclaiming that he has as much authority and right as one of the original twelve. Paul was chosen directly by Jesus on the Damascus Road. Where someone other than Paul or the original twleve is identified in Scripture as an apostle, I consider that to be according to the common definition of apostle as simply one sent. A modern missionary is an apostle under this common definition.

I don't think Scripture declares "apostle" to be an official title. It just happens to be the term used to describe his chosen thirteen who exercised the highest authority in the church in the first century. The term refers also to those, in addition to the chosen thirteen, sent to proclaim the Gospel to the world.

:thumbsup: Good answer!! That is what I have always read...also, the term bishop and priest were used interchangeably (according to the books I've read) and did not take on a specific ministerial understanding (other than being a eucharistic presider) until late in the first century or early second. So, I'd have to go against Paladinvaler's assumption in his response - unless he can direct us to some sources otherwise.

[Aymn27]

This usage may indicate -- I think, probably does indicate -- that the ancient church was less rigourous than many modern branches of the church, in forcing people and their roles into rigid categorization.

I've argued the issue of Apostolic succession with my non-Anglican husband a number of times. I think the counterpoint of Saint Paul and Saint Matthias are something of a lesson to us:

Yes, Apostolic Succession is an important source of order and authority for the church. BUT, God has the right and the power also choose successors directly, from unlikely people in unlikely places and imbue them with unlikely ability for an unlikely calling. Who, after all, had more impact on shaping the church for the next two thousand years? The properly-elected liturgically-appointed Matthias? Or the persecutor of Christians who was struck blind in the middle of a dusty thoroughfare?

That is a great point that I've never really thought about...however, I do have to question exactly how the church would be able to discern between the two if they taught doctrine contrary to one another...

Also, just as an afterthought, even Paul said he laid out his gospel before Cephas (Peter) and the others to ensure he was not teaching error..

[gtsecc]

Come to Thursday group.
We are studying ACTS and just covered this.
;)