Father Serafim Rose to be a saint?

[rafaeldaher]

Dear brothers in XC,

Is any Orthodox Church declaring Fr. Serafim Rose a Saint?

I found some orthodox sites with icons of him, but, sorry, i can't post here, because i dont have the 15 posts to put a external link.

Somebody knows about the canonization of Fr. Seraphim?

It's allowed make an icon of someone not officially declared as a saint?

[gzt]

He's not a saint yet. There has to be local veneration of a man before a man can become a saint, and icons are taken as evidence of said local veneration, though IIRC they should be made without a halo before his glorification. The only jurisdiction which can make him a saint is ROCOR.

[The Prokeimenon!]

He hasn't been canonized, but I tend to believe he is a saint. I'll wait until The Church speaks before I say he's definitely a saint, though.

Moses

[Dust and Ashes]

My sponsor's OCA parish has an icon of him (- halo, of course).

[pilgrimtim]

Saint Phanarious was a saint with a glorious Icon found but his name was not on any official record
In Orthodoxy the people proclaim the saint then in time the church organizes this veneration and officially fix the title saint to the person. But it is not improper to call someone who you have great respect for, who has left this life, to call them Saint Seraphim and ask for his intercessions.
After the people in general display signs of the veneration of Saint seraphim then they will recognize him as a Saint.

[Ioan cel Nou]

He's not a saint yet. There has to be local veneration of a man before a man can become a saint, and icons are taken as evidence of said local veneration, though IIRC they should be made without a halo before his glorification. The only jurisdiction which can make him a saint is ROCOR.

Surely if he's a saint he's a saint even before he's officially recognised as such? I don't think God waits for the Church to make Her mind up on the issue - not that I think that's what you meant to say, but it is the way it comes across.

And are they really meant to be shown in icons without a halo until they are officially glorified? The reason I ask is that there is a famous very old icon of my son's patron saint from well before his glorification (in 1992) and that does have a halo.

James

[repentant]

Well they say that he did not succomd to decay or rigor mortis for the few days he was dead and not buried yet. Also some people that viewed his body said he smelled like roses. This is common among alot of saints. We will just have to wait and see. Does anyone know if they exhumed his body at all in the years after his burial? If he is intact, that could be a sign as well, but I have not heard.

[Orthodox Andrew]

Some wonderful Icons of Father Seraphim. http://users.sisqtel.net/williams/pics-icons.html

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Why is ROCOR the only jurisdiction authorized to proclaim someone a saint? If proclaiming someone a saint is based on local veneration, why couldn’t the other jurisdictions of Orthodoxy declare someone a saint? :scratch:

Inquiring minds and all that…

In XC,

Maureen

[Ioan cel Nou]

Why is ROCOR the only jurisdiction authorized to proclaim someone a saint? If proclaiming someone a saint is based on local veneration, why couldn’t the other jurisdictions of Orthodoxy declare someone a saint? :scratch:

Inquiring minds and all that…

In XC,

Maureen

All the local churches glorify their own saints and these are then later accepted by the others. As Fr. Seraphim was in ROCOR, then, it would almost certainly fall to them to glorify him (or perhaps the MP if the reunion talks are successful). I don't believe that anyone was saying that ROCOR had a monopoly on glorifications, though. That would certainly be incorrect in any case.

James

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Thank you!!

[ufonium2]

All the local churches glorify their own saints and these are then later accepted by the others. As Fr. Seraphim was in ROCOR, then, it would almost certainly fall to them to glorify him (or perhaps the MP if the reunion talks are successful). I don't believe that anyone was saying that ROCOR had a monopoly on glorifications, though. That would certainly be incorrect in any case.

James

I wonder about all that. I was told that the reason St. John Maximovitch (the one that lived in America in this century, not his Russian great-uncle) was not on the OCA calendar is that ROCOR never sent the OCA official permission for them to put him on there, or something like that. Of course there are OCA churches and monasteries named after him, and he's been on the Greek calendar for a while, so it seems kind of odd.

Also, wasn't the OCA the first to glorify St. Raphael? I know that technically he was under the Russians (but at that point, wasn't everyone here?), but considering he was Arab, and his flock is now Antiochian, wouldn't it logically have come from the Antiochians?

Personally, I've seen icons of the North American saints that included Fr. Seraphim (sans halo), and I've never seen that done for anyone else here. So it would seem he's the logical choice for next NA saint. But that would be a controversial move, as a lot of folks don't like him. Honestly, I think veneration of him is greater abroad, and wouldn't be surprised if his ultimate glorification came from Moscow.

[Padraig]

I wonder about all that. I was told that the reason St. John Maximovitch (the one that lived in America in this century, not his Russian great-uncle) was not on the OCA calendar is that ROCOR never sent the OCA official permission for them to put him on there, or something like that. Of course there are OCA churches and monasteries named after him, and he's been on the Greek calendar for a while, so it seems kind of odd.

Also, wasn't the OCA the first to glorify St. Raphael? I know that technically he was under the Russians (but at that point, wasn't everyone here?), but considering he was Arab, and his flock is now Antiochian, wouldn't it logically have come from the Antiochians?

Personally, I've seen icons of the North American saints that included Fr. Seraphim (sans halo), and I've never seen that done for anyone else here. So it would seem he's the logical choice for next NA saint. But that would be a controversial move, as a lot of folks don't like him. Honestly, I think veneration of him is greater abroad, and wouldn't be surprised if his ultimate glorification came from Moscow.

St John Maxomovitch is venerated throughout the OCA as a saint. He's commemorated in our services, but I'm not really sure why he doesn't have a day on the calendar yet. St Raphael is recognized because he was part of the Russian Greek Orthodox Metropolia that became the OCA. Everyone was sort of under this omophor at the time. He was actually sent from Russia IIRC.

Fr Seraphim is somewhat controversial. There would be some in the other jurisdictions in this country that would welcome his glorification. Others would not. Though no one doubts he lived a hard, and an ascetic life, his teachings on certain things have been called into question. As St John Maximovitch held similar teachings that could explain why some are not ready to put him on the calendar. Though it's a moot point because we here his name and ask his prayers just about every service.

Nobody has ever accused the Orthodox Church of being organized. I'm sure one day it'll all get worked out.

Kevin

[Rilian]

Also, wasn't the OCA the first to glorify St. Raphael? I know that technically he was under the Russians (but at that point, wasn't everyone here?), but considering he was Arab, and his flock is now Antiochian, wouldn't it logically have come from the Antiochians?

This article (http://orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/EardwineHistory.php) talks about some of the history, I'm not sure how accurate it is. This one (http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Raphael_of_Brooklyn) gives the details of St. Raphael's glorification.