Exorcism, Movies, and You

[MrJim]

Hey,

So there are these two guys at work that come to me a lot about exorcism stuff. They seem genuine enough about their questions, but it stems from movies. So there is this new one out that is "based on a true story". I explain to them about how there are actual excorcisms done, though primarily through the Catholic church, and that Pope JP2 performed two himself (though I don't know when in his life he did them). And I try to explain that "based on a true story" does not equal a "true story";) .

Lots of info in NT about demonic activity. So why don't we hear much about "casting out demons" amongst B/A or other protestant denoms? Demons seem to be as much a part of the NT as other issues we deal with.

And how do you respond to the inevitable questions that arise?

[OrthoCanuck]

Wow, the same question's been bugging me for a while...but you said it in a way far better than I could. I'll keep my eye on this thread.

Peace.

[aReformedPatriot]

Hey,

So there are these two guys at work that come to me a lot about exorcism stuff. They seem genuine enough about their questions, but it stems from movies. So there is this new one out that is "based on a true story". I explain to them about how there are actual excorcisms done, though primarily through the Catholic church, and that Pope JP2 performed two himself (though I don't know when in his life he did them). And I try to explain that "based on a true story" does not equal a "true story";) .

Lots of info in NT about demonic activity. So why don't we hear much about "casting out demons" amongst B/A or other protestant denoms? Demons seem to be as much a part of the NT as other issues we deal with.

And how do you respond to the inevitable questions that arise?

I assisted a minister in an exorcism. It was nothing flashy like one would see in the movie the exorcist for example, though I am sure it can happen. During the exorcism this woman's demeanor totally changed and we exchanged words with the spirit. The demon told us what his purpose was and that we had better leave it be. We started praying and cast it out in the name of our Lord and she became normal.

If I may speculate for a moment, I believe that one of the chief reasons we do not hear many stories about dealings with the spiritual realm is for the simple fact that the devil in our country has focused our attention elsewhere. For example, post modernism and scientific study has for many become a god in which the supernatrual is sought to be explained away. Where 'reason' reigns, the spiritual is viewed as lunacy. However in countries/remote locations where this worldview is rare we do hear more about such things happening.

[MrJim]

I assisted a minister in an exorcism. It was nothing flashy like one would see in the movie the exorcist for example, though I am sure it can happen. During the exorcism this woman's demeanor totally changed and we exchanged words with the spirit. The demon told us what his purpose was and that we had better leave it be. We started praying and cast it out in the name of our Lord and she became normal.

If I may speculate for a moment, I believe that one of the chief reasons we do not hear many stories about dealings with the spiritual realm is for the simple fact that the devil in our country has focused our attention elsewhere. For example, post modernism and scientific study has for many become a god in which the supernatrual is sought to be explained away. Where 'reason' reigns, the spiritual is viewed as lunacy. However in countries/remote locations where this worldview is rare we do hear more about such things happening.

Exactly the type of info I'm looking for...

[Palatka44]

If you have ever led someone to Christ you have helped that soul to be set free from sin and Satan's demons. There are those that come to Christ rather easily while there are many that take a lot of prayer and fasting. It is the same guideline that Jesus set when dealing with demon possesion.

[mesue]

Some verses come to mind:
Jesus said there would be no more signs"
Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[arunma]

I believe that exorcisms are sometimes necessary. I just don't know much about them.

[TwinCrier]

I would think someone who had had demons excised from them would not want to publicize the event. And I would hope the Christian doing the excising would protect their privacy and dignity.

[aReformedPatriot]

I would think someone who had had demons excised from them would not want to publicize the event. And I would hope the Christian doing the excising would protect their privacy and dignity.

In our society one is often made ashamed of the power of Christ. I belive one should not be ashamed of the event as it is testimony to our great King. It is understandable though.

[steepfall]

I personally believe that the reason why exorcisms as well as stigmata, are prodominatly seen in the catholic religion, is as the quotes that mesue posted show that as human kind we seek signs, physical examples of what we believe show religious truth. People are thus drawn to the denominations that have the most occurrences of these spiritual activities. When in reality we should rather be looking at the doctrine that is followed in that domination. It would thus ultimately benefit satan at the end of the day to cause these "signs" in denominations that have questionable doctrine.

[aReformedPatriot]

I personally believe that the reason why exorcisms as well as stigmata, are prodominatly seen in the catholic religion, is as the quotes that mesue posted show that as human kind we seek signs, physical examples of what we believe show religious truth. People are thus drawn to the denominations that have the most occurrences of these spiritual activities. When in reality we should rather be looking at the doctrine that is followed in that domination. It would thus ultimately benefit satan at the end of the day to cause these "signs" in denominations that have questionable doctrine.

I agree. I believe I once saw a thread in OBOB wherein people praised God for a wafer that began to bleed. Theologically speaking, that is frightening especially when one views the eucharist to be symbolic. Apparations of Mary are another thing I would ascribe to demonic activity. :|

[Ginny]

hmmmm

people stereotype possessed individuals as their heads spinning with deep baritone voices.... quite the contrary.

Ever wonder if a person that drowns all 7 of her children is possessed? I wonder if the BTK killer was possessed. What about Charles Manson? I believe people that are of sick minds are usually thought of with some psychology terminology babble...when really Satan entertains the thought to the individual and they act upon it....whether of their own free will or through Satan.

How many of you would care to admit that Satan has made a very ugly image or vision pop up in your mind....something you would never do in a million years...something horrific? I believe Satan/ demons try to spring stuff on us until we are lured or it affects us big time. He islooking for that weak point and everyone has one. I have first hand experience. If it were not for my armor of God ridding the situation, I probably would have been thought to be a nut had I shared it with a licensed individual.

[Joykins]

How many of you would care to admit that Satan has made a very ugly image or vision pop up in your mind....something you would never do in a million years...something horrific? I believe Satan/ demons try to spring stuff on us until we are lured or it affects us big time. He islooking for that weak point and everyone has one. I have first hand experience. If it were not for my armor of God ridding the situation, I probably would have been thought to be a nut had I shared it with a licensed individual.

I don't recall having these, but I believe psychologically these are called "intrusive thoughts." Sometimes, though not all by any means, they are part of a chemical imbalance, and most people do not act on them.

Just as when we are physically sick, we turn to both medicine and prayer, when we have what seems to be a mental illness we should turn to both mental health care and prayer. Exorcism would be something of a last resort after verifying that the cause is demonic. While I do believe demons exist, it is also unnecessarily traumatizing and disrespectful of the gifts we have been given to diagnose a demon and attempt an exorcism when the person in question needs Zoloft and some prayer, especially when that person is a professing Christian (and, quite, often, a new mother--postpartum depression/psychosis can cause these things).

[novcncy]

I assisted a minister in an exorcism. It was nothing flashy like one would see in the movie the exorcist for example, though I am sure it can happen. During the exorcism this woman's demeanor totally changed and we exchanged words with the spirit. The demon told us what his purpose was and that we had better leave it be. We started praying and cast it out in the name of our Lord and she became normal.

If I may speculate for a moment, I believe that one of the chief reasons we do not hear many stories about dealings with the spiritual realm is for the simple fact that the devil in our country has focused our attention elsewhere. For example, post modernism and scientific study has for many become a god in which the supernatrual is sought to be explained away. Where 'reason' reigns, the spiritual is viewed as lunacy. However in countries/remote locations where this worldview is rare we do hear more about such things happening.

That's some good speculation, and I had some similar thoughts on the issue.

One problem, is that the church has bought the secular ideology that there are physical, spiritual, and psychological needs. Unfortunately, we carry that view into medical doctors for the body, pastoral or Christian counselling for the spirit, and lump everything else into the mental category, that is supposed to be treated by phsychiatrists and drugs. I suspect that many of these mental issues are actually spiritual ones, and because it is uncomfortable both to science (i.e. they don't want to admit the existence of demons because of the other implications) and to religion (because let's face it, it's creepy to us), that the topic ends up nearly completely ignored. Further complicating the issue, is the sensationalistic approach taken whenever the topic DOES come up, so in effect, everyone thinks it's something like a comic book or a movie or some such nonsense. Anyway, that's why I think it doesn't get any attention.

[sneezingleopard]

posted by the lords envoy,
If I may speculate for a moment, I believe that one of the chief reasons we do not hear many stories about dealings with the spiritual realm is for the simple fact that the devil in our country has focused our attention elsewhere. For example, post modernism and scientific study has for many become a god in which the supernatrual is sought to be explained away. Where 'reason' reigns, the spiritual is viewed as lunacy. However in countries/remote locations where this worldview is rare we do hear more about such things happening.

good assesment.

postyed by palatka44
If you have ever led someone to Christ you have helped that soul to be set free from sin and Satan's demons. There are those that come to Christ rather easily while there are many that take a lot of prayer and fasting. It is the same guideline that Jesus set when dealing with demon possesion.

also a great point.
In CHrist,
Matthew

[sneezingleopard]

posted by mesue,
Some verses come to mind:
Jesus said there would be no more signs"
mark 8:12
Matthew 24:24


Not to argue, but I would like to ask you some questions of clarification. What about MArk 1:21-28 where JEsus performs an exorcism and other passages in Mark and all the gosples where Jesus performs signs? DO these mean Jesus is lying in chapter eight which you pointed out?
feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong but in chapter eight of mark JEsus seems to be telling this specific group of people (the pharisees) that there generation (the jews) would not see signs. He seems to be saying that a sign originating in human demand will not be provided. look to Numbers 14:11-22, God has given this generation of people (the jews or israelites) many signs but they still didn't believe, instead they kept asking for more. check out John 12:36-43 and luke 11: 29-32. Now Jesus is there to form a new covenant with a new people. It is with this new generation that he will and is performing signs to show that the kingdom of God is at hand.
Doesn't MArk 9:38-41 also point out that Jesus isn't against people casting out demons? In fact Jesus seems to be promoting it. you also quoted MAthew 24:24 . This passage seems to be saying that there will be false prophets and false messiahs who perform signs and we should watch out for this. We should watch out for mohamed not people who cast out demons in christ's name. However we can not conclude from this that there will be no more signs performed by the people of God because the holy spirit himself comes on pentecost in the book of acts to enable the apostles to do just that, heal the sick, speak in tongues, cast out demons etc. look at acts ch. 3.
John said to him, 'teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.' Jesus replied, 'Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak il of me. For whoever is not agains tus is for us.'
Also check out MArk 3:20-30. Oh yeah, I also wanted to say that it isn't just catholics who perform excorcisms as some have already noted. I am in a multi denominational group and I know that the assemblies of god church believes in excorsism. hope this helps answer your question.
In Christ,
Matthew

[stone]

. Apparations of Mary are another thing I would ascribe to demonic activity. :|

you were doing good until you said this.

remember, y]shua was accussed of casting demons with the power of demons, when you recall his answer, you'll know that the apparitions inspire faith, therefore, it is giveing to g-d and not takeing away.

dont forget there is a war, both good and bad will reveal itself.

[stone]

The demon told us what his purpose was and that we had better leave it be. .

May i ask, what you were told by this thing?

[aReformedPatriot]

you were doing good until you said this.

remember, y]shua was accussed of casting demons with the power of demons, when you recall his answer, you'll know that the apparitions inspire faith, therefore, it is giveing to g-d and not takeing away.


As far as I am concerned marian apparitions inspire idolatrous devotion to mary.

That is my position and so shall be.

[stone]

your implying that i now worship Mary.

you are incorrect. I'm not even catholic.

Although, since she showed herself to me, well... it took several years for me to even begin to research this religious stuff, but i do not and have never taken part of any Mary worshipping. I believe you have a misconception of the entire thing.

and you know, since i've began researching this religion stuff, i've discovered the catholic church has the deepest roots in christianity, regardless of what you think. and then as my research goes even deeper, into the source of christianity, these apparitions are all angels of jewish roots, which has taken me into a new level of researching this Torah thing. now that, has opened my eyes too many many new concepts, that are wirtten plain as day in the new testament.

anyrate, yea, i've seen the apparition, and i just blew it off for many many years. now g-d is speaking to me, and i simply obey the words and this is where my path lies today.

[novcncy]

your implying that i now worship Mary.

you are incorrect. I'm not even catholic.

Although, since she showed herself to me, well... it took several years for me to even begin to research this religious stuff, but i do not and have never taken part of any Mary worshipping. I believe you have a misconception of the entire thing.

and you know, since i've began researching this religion stuff, i've discovered the catholic church has the deepest roots in christianity, regardless of what you think. and then as my research goes even deeper, into the source of christianity, these apparitions are all angels of jewish roots, which has taken me into a new level of researching this Torah thing. now that, has opened my eyes too many many new concepts, that are wirtten plain as day in the new testament.

anyrate, yea, i've seen the apparition, and i just blew it off for many many years. now g-d is speaking to me, and i simply obey the words and this is where my path lies today.

He didn't imply you were Catholic. He said that the apparitions encourage worship of Mary, which even most of the Catholics on this board would say is not appropriate.

As far as the "apparitions" beinig "angels of jewish roots", that is on of the most extrabiblical statements I've ever heard. It's theologically unsound on so many levels, I'm not sure where to begin. Since when do angels have roots in any nationality?

If you've seen an apparition, you should be concerned. Satan himself can appear as an angel of light. Since the ONLY Biblical accounts of people who are dead interacting in the physical world consist of Samuel pronouncing God's judgement on/to Saul, and Moses and Elijah at the mount of transfiguration, combined with God's specific condemnations of attempting to speak to/with the dead, there is no reason to presume this apparition is Mary, despite its claims, real or imagined. Since God's revelation has been concluded in his word, and he has given us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, there is no reason to accept this claim that the apparition is a Jewish angel, either. So if it ain't Mary, and it ain't an angel, what is it?

You talk of studying, I urge you to get to it, as you are in great peril.

[aReformedPatriot]

He didn't imply you were Catholic. He said that the apparitions encourage worship of Mary, which even most of the Catholics on this board would say is not appropriate.

As far as the "apparitions" beinig "angels of jewish roots", that is on of the most extrabiblical statements I've ever heard. It's theologically unsound on so many levels, I'm not sure where to begin. Since when do angels have roots in any nationality?

If you've seen an apparition, you should be concerned. Satan himself can appear as an angel of light. Since the ONLY Biblical accounts of people who are dead interacting in the physical world consist of Samuel pronouncing God's judgement on/to Saul, and Moses and Elijah at the mount of transfiguration, combined with God's specific condemnations of attempting to speak to/with the dead, there is no reason to presume this apparition is Mary, despite its claims, real or imagined. Since God's revelation has been concluded in his word, and he has given us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, there is no reason to accept this claim that the apparition is a Jewish angel, either. So if it ain't Mary, and it ain't an angel, what is it?

You talk of studying, I urge you to get to it, as you are in great peril.

I agree. :prayer:

[Sword-In-Hand]

I think possession is very real and alive in our society, but as someone else stated, under a different disguise. Look at things like drug use, pornography and other sexual addictions. It's a new form of possession, one that has snuck up on us which sounds like something the devil would do.

While I don't deny that exorcisms are real, I believe that very few people have the faith to accomplish a cleansing. Even the apostles tried to cast out demons and when they couldn't they asked Jesus why and He said things of that nature take much prayer and fasting.

Satan works in subtely and subterfuge. Sin has a desirable feel to it, so demon possession as described in movies is probably a farce. Froathing, spitting, vomiting people isn't something beautiful.

I have to ask, why would God need to show us apparitions to get our attention, and why show apparitions of mortals rather than of Jesus? Jesus has the only power to save, no one else. We have the Bible, our guide to the words and works of God, and our guide to things physical and spiritual. Seeing a spirit proves nothing. As we know through scripture that Satan can appear to be as an angel of light, I would be weary of any sighting of apparitions.

[MrJim]

Does anyone think that demonic activity in any way resembles the world painted by Peretti his novels?

[stone]

You talk of studying, I urge you to get to it, as you are in great peril.

Already have been, for a very long time now. Your response is typical of many. You should know that when i say to you what i have seen is truely what i say.

You speak as if all angels are deceptive and if one appears to you, by the grace of g-d you give the impression that you will reply just as the Israeli's replied to y'shua when the messiah had visited them.

I am not asking for your guidance along my journey, i have the guidance of my father now and what more would i need.

With deception comes fear, and i tell you there is none when she was before me, in fact it was unlike anything you have ever felt i'm sure, the feeling of pure good and the white dove that flew before me, then of course the church was there as well.

I know of all these stories of deception and am being taught by the best.

Now as far as angels being jewish, well.. you will say what you feel is correct, however, you do know, until christianity began, all the angels were jewish i guarantee you, of course now there are the saints of christianity.

Maybe you can teach me something i don't already know?

[stone]

and i must also mention, that if you are so weak to see the truth, and that you atempt to cast demons, that you are who is in perile as your faith in seeing the truth is weak.

I suggest you ask g-d to cleanse you from any demons that may have found there way into you.

and i say this with all my heart. my prayers and blessings to you. :angel:

[Sword-In-Hand]

With deception comes fear



That's not true at all. We are to fear the Lord, so is there deception in the Lord? When dealing with Satan, Michael did not even have power to rebuke him, but instead rebuked him in the Lord's name. If Satan was to stand before you, I would almost guarantee that you would not feel fear or deception, but pleasure and delight. Such is the way with the tempter.

Not saying this about you, but relativism is killing the world today. People base to many things off of feelings rather than the truth. Sin gives pleasurable feelings, but it's not right. So even if I were confronted by an apparition, and didn't feel fear, that does not mean that it wasn't Satan. Continue on your journey though. When seeking the Truth, all roads lead back to Jesus.

[novcncy]

That's not true at all. We are to fear the Lord, so is there deception in the Lord? When dealing with Satan, Michael did not even have power to rebuke him, but instead rebuked him in the Lord's name. If Satan was to stand before you, I would almost guarantee that you would not feel fear or deception, but pleasure and delight. Such is the way with the tempter.

Not saying this about you, but relativism is killing the world today. People base to many things off of feelings rather than the truth. Sin gives pleasurable feelings, but it's not right. So even if I were confronted by an apparition, and didn't feel fear, that does not mean that it wasn't Satan. Continue on your journey though. When seeking the Truth, all roads lead back to Jesus.

Good post. I agree.

Do you really think Satan is going to show his true colors, in an attempt to coerce someone? Of course not! He's not going to tell them he is a roaring lion who wants to devour their very soul! He's going to make them feel wonderful, and at peace.

There is no biblical precedent or reason to have visions of Mary or visitations from angels. As such, any that appear cannot be from God. God has given us His word, and the Holy Spirit. We do not need nor have visions or signs that provide further enlightenment, revelation, or good feelings.

[steepfall]

Cool man have a good one! God bless

[aReformedPatriot]

These visions inspire others to follow a Jesus who teaches that one is imputed with grace that saves from hell at baptism (false view), works that merit grace (another false view), prayers to saints (false view), a papal hierarchy (yet again, false). The highest act of worship is the celebration of Mass, an unbloody sacrifice (terribly false). My friends this Jesus has bad theology and it is as simple as that.

I honestly do not get excited when I hear about what the "church fathers" may or may not have believed, I take all that with a grain of salt. I think for a lot of people they get intimidated when they hear about some of the 'fathers' views. My friends, let me throw a question out for you to posit: If the Galations fell away so quickly from the truth, while the apostles were still alive, how much more quickly might they have done so after their death?

Renowned Catholic writer and apologist Scott Hahn writes: “Down through the centuries, many of the doctrinal seeds that were planted by Christ and the apostles have blossomed into dogmas, as defined by the Church’s magisterium. In this manner, theology has developed over time, as other sciences do” (Hail, Holy Queen 145-46). I disagree, especially with regard to evolved Marian doctrine. The only thing I believe this statement teaches is that “we can make up things as we go along.”

______Shifting Focus____

I think possession is very real and alive in our society, but as someone else stated, under a different disguise. Look at things like drug use, pornography and other sexual addictions. It's a new form of possession, one that has snuck up on us which sounds like something the devil would do.

While I don't deny that exorcisms are real, I believe that very few people have the faith to accomplish a cleansing. Even the apostles tried to cast out demons and when they couldn't they asked Jesus why and He said things of that nature take much prayer and fasting.

Satan works in subtely and subterfuge. Sin has a desirable feel to it, so demon possession as described in movies is probably a farce. Froathing, spitting, vomiting people isn't something beautiful.

I have to ask, why would God need to show us apparitions to get our attention, and why show apparitions of mortals rather than of Jesus? Jesus has the only power to save, no one else. We have the Bible, our guide to the words and works of God, and our guide to things physical and spiritual. Seeing a spirit proves nothing. As we know through scripture that Satan can appear to be as an angel of light, I would be weary of any sighting of apparitions.

I both agree and disagree. I think what you said about the apostle's not having enough faith is for the most part correct. I believe all Christians have the ability as the spirit off God indwells each man who is born of His blood. I do believe that it should never be approached lightly and should be a serious task.

As for what you said about demonic possession being somewhat appealing because of sins seductive charms I would disagree, but probably not in everycase as who am I to say? Is there not a biblical account where someone who is possessed throws themself into a fire? I doubt that guy was pleasing to the eye. The "prophet" Mohhamad for example, is said to have started frothing at the mouth and convulsing whenever he recieved a vision from "god." I doubt he was being "filled with the spirit" during those times. It was probably God giving him a prelude of 'paradise.' ;)

I also believe Angels both good and bad can appear to man, although, one must test what they say with scripture and prayer. I honestly have no idea why one would reveal itself though.

[novcncy]

I also believe Angels both good and bad can appear to man, although, one must test what they say with scripture and prayer. I honestly have no idea why one would reveal itself though.

Think about both of these statements for a few minutes.

Where does the first one come from? Did Mary try Gabriel with scripture and prayer? Did Joseph? What about Zachariah? Peter in prison? I guess I just don't see the reasoning behind the statement. Can you elaborate?

Secondly, in the Bible, when DID angels appear? I can assure you it wasn't to encourage people to follow Mary, which I'm sure we both agree on. But angels didn't just casually appear, is what I'm driving at. They had a message straight from God.

[Sword-In-Hand]

As for what you said about demonic possession being somewhat appealing because of sins seductive charms I would disagree, but probably not in everycase as who am I to say? Is there not a biblical account where someone who is possessed throws themself into a fire? I doubt that guy was pleasing to the eye. The "prophet" Mohhamad for example, is said to have started frothing at the mouth and convulsing whenever he recieved a vision from "god." I doubt he was being "filled with the spirit" during those times. It was probably God giving him a prelude of 'paradise.' ;)



I see what you are saying. I know where in the scripture that someone possessed caused himself bodily harm. And the man who ran into the temple screaming and such. So, I would say there is a point where sin looses its attractiveness and becomes outwardly disgusting. Again look at a person strung out on drugs. What does their body look like? I agree with what you are saying there.

Also, I must say that nothing I posted was done to "bash" Catholics. Do I agree with their practices? Not at all, but I love them the same as I love anyone else. All I reported was my thoughts on seeing spirits. In my opinion God has finalized what we need in the Bible, and there is no need in seeing people from the past.

[novcncy]

I see what you are saying. I know where in the scripture that someone possessed caused himself bodily harm. And the man who ran into the temple screaming and such. So, I would say there is a point where sin looses its attractiveness and becomes outwardly disgusting. Again look at a person strung out on drugs. What does their body look like? I agree with what you are saying there.

Also, I must say that nothing I posted was done to "bash" Catholics. Do I agree with their practices? Not at all, but I love them the same as I love anyone else. All I reported was my thoughts on seeing spirits. In my opinion God has finalized what we need in the Bible, and there is no need in seeing people from the past.

Yeah, I didn't get the bashing Catholics comment either... but to each their own.

[stone]

The "prophet" Mohhamad for example, is said to have started frothing at the mouth and convulsing whenever he recieved a vision from "god." I doubt he was being "filled with the spirit" during those times. It was probably God giving him a prelude of 'paradise.' ;)

I also believe Angels both good and bad can appear to man, although, one must test what they say with scripture and prayer. I honestly have no idea why one would reveal itself though.

I never heard that before about mohammed, but is logical to what i've learned of Islam... lol.

and neither do i know why they've revealed themselves to me, and with messages of course, like, you must believe the word of Jesus and the last, was a bit different, this last time, last week actually, i heard a voice, say, "My son, you are doing good, fast until tonight" and of course i obeyed and have received many blessings.

now tell me, would satan say to believe in the word of Jesus and to fast? I think not. I know what i am dealing with here, i'm not looking for anyone to explain anything to me, i don't need it and if i am looking for an explanation for something, will ask for it, as i am currently asking many questions to my Messianic brothers.

I simply am letting you know, that just because i have seen what you call an aparition of Mary, and you have implied that those who have seen these are victims of witnessing satan, i tell you, you are incorrect in your assumptions. At least in my case i know your incorrect.

You say clearly what you will believe, but it would be wrong for me to ignore what you said, knowing what i know.

good day to you all as well. :angel:

[McDLT]

Have you seen this article in Christianity Today?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/interviews/scottderrickson.html

I think it might be interesting.

[aReformedPatriot]

I never heard that before about mohammed, but is logical to what i've learned of Islam... lol.

and neither do i know why they've revealed themselves to me, and with messages of course, like, you must believe the word of Jesus and the last, was a bit different, this last time, last week actually, i heard a voice, say, "My son, you are doing good, fast until tonight" and of course i obeyed and have received many blessings.

now tell me, would satan say to believe in the word of Jesus and to fast? I think not. I know what i am dealing with here, i'm not looking for anyone to explain anything to me, i don't need it and if i am looking for an explanation for something, will ask for it, as i am currently asking many questions to my Messianic brothers.

I simply am letting you know, that just because i have seen what you call an aparition of Mary, and you have implied that those who have seen these are victims of witnessing satan, i tell you, you are incorrect in your assumptions. At least in my case i know your incorrect.

You say clearly what you will believe, but it would be wrong for me to ignore what you said, knowing what i know.

good day to you all as well. :angel:

Will you ask a question for us and for yourself next time you talk to either Mary or some other spirit: Who is queen of Heaven and is Jesus Christ your Lord?

And let us know :)