Sex Within Marriage?

[A Sheep]

I was wondering where in the Bible it says that we, as Christians, are allowed to, and even possibly required to, have sex with our spouse for fun and not simply for procreation. Which passages of scripture state that we are allowed to have intercourse for the sole purpose of recreation as opposed to having intercourse solely to create a new life? Please only post scripture from the Bible and only from the 66 "Protestant" books of said book. Please do not post organized religions' traditions and/or rules; the Bible only, please. Who came up with the idea of the honeymoon and the certain acts that take place on that night? I am aware of the OT passages referring to a man and a woman becoming "one flesh" as well as Jesus' quoting of this, but where does it say that this is a physical (i.e. sexual) "oneness" and not anyother type of joinings(i.e their beliefs, their dreams, their future, them living together, procreating with eachother, them being inseparable till "death do us part," or a combination of some of these things?) I know that wanting to make love simply for the act of procreation and not for enjoyment is not a very popular view to hold, but that does not automatically render it an incorrect view to hold. Scripture regarding the act of intercourse within the confines of marriage and your opinions on the subject of sex(or, lack thereof) within marriage would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

[Athlon4all]

Very good question A Sheep:) I am curious to see what God wants:)

[Andrew]

"I was wondering where in the Bible it says that we, as Christians, are allowed to, and even possibly required to, have sex with our spouse for fun and not simply for procreation."

Try the book of Song of Songs. Also you might want to read the book Act of Marriage (cant rem by who) written by a Chritian couple who I think are doctors too. They go into explicit detail about sex within marriage (purpose etc) with many verses of scripture of course. :)

[PrinceJeff]

And I would like scripture that says "thou must only copulate with thine spouse when thou wanteth to conceiveth."

The reason God killed Onan for spilling his seed was not simply because of that. It was because he refused to father a child in the name of his deceased brother, as was tradition back in the day. And who has read Song Of Solomon lately? Where does it talk about procreation in there? There's your scripture A Sheep.

[PrinceJeff]

"The Act Of Marriage" by Tim and Beverly LaHaye. Excellent resource. :)

[psycmajor]

Ge 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Mt 19:5
and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?

Mt 19:6
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

Mr 10:8
and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.

1Co 6:16
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."

Eph 5:31
"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Andrew
"I was wondering where in the Bible it says that we, as Christians, are allowed to, and even possibly required to, have sex with our spouse for fun and not simply for procreation."

Try the book of Song of Songs. Also you might want to read the book Act of Marriage (cant rem by who) written by a Chritian couple who I think are doctors too. They go into explicit detail about sex within marriage (purpose etc) with many verses of scripture of course. :)

Thanks for the book reference, but I do not have the resources(time nor money) to purchase said book, could you please state your opinion on this subject and/or some scripture regarding this subject?

[psycmajor]

A Sheep! The Song of Songs is the Song of Solomon in the Bible! Old Testament!

Silly sheep! ;) :hug:

Or were you talking about the Act of Marriage book? :o

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by PrinceJeff
And I would like scripture that says "thou must only copulate with thine spouse when thou wanteth to conceiveth."

The reason God killed Onan for spilling his seed was not simply because of that. It was because he refused to father a child in the name of his deceased brother, as was tradition back in the day. And who has read Song Of Solomon lately? Where does it talk about procreation in there? There's your scripture A Sheep.

That is not a quote of mine, why did you post that in that manner?  I also never brought up Onan.  I am not sure as to why God acted as He did in reference to Onan's death, I am going to study that later on.  I just became a Christian last year, so I have read much of the Bible, but I have yet to read Song of Solomon/Songs, if their is an appropriate passage in that book of the Bible, then please post in here, accompanying it should be a few passages preceding and succeeding it, along with the actual passage itself, to determine context, thanks.

[A Sheep]

To "Psycmajor": I was referring to the retail book "Act of Marriage," not the OT book "Song of Songs/Solomon."

[psycmajor]

Prince Jeff
Are you saying that people should be allowed to have sex with people other than their spouse?

[psycmajor]

A Sheep
I realized that after I initially posted :)

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by PrinceJeff
"The Act Of Marriage" by Tim and Beverly LaHaye. Excellent resource. :)

Thank you for the authors of "The Act Of Marriage" book and the secondary recommendation of said book, but I believe that the Bible should be written well enough as to be able to make clear God's opinion on subjects such as this one, without having to purchase another book, which I cannot expend my resources on, at the moment.  I will read Song of Songs/Solomon when I get around to it, but at the moment I would greatly appreciate some opinions from my brothers and sisters and some passages from the Bible concerning this query of mine.  

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by psycmajor
1Co 6:16
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."


Thank you Psycmajor, that passage from Corinthians is very relevant to my question.  So "two becoming one flesh" is referring to sex.  Is it possible that the passage above is referring to the first time that a man and woman have intercourse?  I think that it is referring to the first time that two people have sex with one another, by that reasoning, could not the couple's first time be to procreate, and thus making them "one flesh," and then the couple would be "one flesh for life," without ever having to have sex again?  Or would they become "two fleshes" again, if they don't engage in intercourse again, irregardless of intent of intercourse? 

[Andrew]

"but I believe that the Bible should be written well enough as to be able to make clear God's opinion on subjects such as this one, without having to purchase another book, "

There is no doubt the Bible is perfectly inspired by God, but we certainly cannot understnd all of it 100% -- that's why we have preachers, teachers and pastors to teach us. So reading a book on the subject is like going to church to hear a sermon preached about marriage in God's eyes.

1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Here its obviously not saying your lack of self control to plan for a baby. Men know this best, they think of sex much of the time, they dont think of planning for another kid when they think of sex. ie their lack of self control has to do with lusting after a woman not lusting after babies. so the context has to do with sex for pleasure. so Paul tells the husband and wife not to deprive each other and to do it regularly (cant be making babies all the time) but put aside time once in a while for prayer.

btw: there's a lot of sex (not the dirty type) in Song of Solomon/Songs. eg stuff like caressing the breast. describing the beautiful body etc. so it's like a lot of foreplay, enjoyment, not so much making babies. but in the book are also hidden spiritual truths abt the relationship btw Jesus (husband) and the church (wife/bride).

[Auntie]

Originally posted by A Sheep


Who came up with the idea of the honeymoon and the certain acts that take place on that night?



I wish our beloved ssv would answer this question, but I will try and maybe he will correct me later. :)

I remember reading somewhere that the OT Jewish tradition was for newlyweds to be alone together for ONE YEAR. That is, they were supposed to take a "honeymoon" for a year. The husband was not supposed to go to work for a year. I don't remember the source of my info, so it may be all wrong.

[Susan]

Was this thread posted because of the views that I posted in another thread? ;)

If so, I don't know what to say. . .

[wvmtnkid]

Hi A Sheep!

I am going to post some scripture even though some of it has already been posted. I want to take the grouping of scripture and then post some commentary on particular verses.

I Corinthians 7:

1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.
2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own
wife and each woman her own husband.
3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the
wife to her husband.
4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband.
In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but
also to his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so
that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again
so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 I say this is a concession, not as a command.
7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from
God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried man and the widows, I say: It is good for them to
stay unmarried, as I am.
9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better
to marry then to burn with passion.

The commentary that I have in my Bible and the passages they pertain to:

7:3-5 Sexual temptations are difficult to withstand because they appeal to the normal and natural desires that God has given us. Marriage provides God's way to satisfy these natural sexual desires and to strengthen the partners against temptation. Married couples have the responsiblity to care for each other, therefore, husbands and wifes should not withhold themselves sexually from one another, but should fulfill each other's needs and desires.

7:9 Sexual pressure is not the best motive for getting married, but it is better to marry the right person than to "burn with passion". Many new believers in Corinth thought that all sex was wrong, and so engaged couples were deciding not to get married. In this passage, Paul was telling couples who wanted to marry that they should not frustrate their normal sexual drives by avoiding marriage. This does not mean, however, that people who have trouble controlling themselves should marry the first person that comes along. It is better to deal with the pressure of desire than to deal with an unhappy marriage.

So I understand this to say that we all have God given sexual desires and that in a marriage it is wrong to deprive the other spouse in fulfilling those desires. So, if you only had sex in order to produce children, at some point, one or the other partner would be deprived. Which appears, is not what God has intended.

Hope this helps!

 

[PrinceJeff]

Prince Jeff
Are you saying that people should be allowed to have sex with people other than their spouse?

No. :scratch:

[Thunderchild]

Well now - Paul did make mention that a man should marry his wife (as I recall, an a reasonably regular basis) so I'm guessing that marrying one's spouse might have been what is generally termed, a euphemism.

[Susan]

Remember rule 4, all, even when adding to existing posts :)

[DaveKerwin]

I thought this was a no brianer... God gave us sex organs so we could use them, duh!

There were good verses posted, God made sex for one man, one woman, one flesh, for life.

[DaveKerwin]

oh yeah, one more thing. If you only want to have sex to procreate, then go ahead, but make sure you tell your fiancee before you marry. I believe God made sex for recreation too, as part of the one flesh relationship. As we are intimate with our spouse (which is way more than sexual), it is a reflection of the intimacy that we have with God. We are the bride of Christ.

[Smilin]

I agree totally Dave.....I not only believe God
gave us the wonderful gift of sex between
husband and wife....everyone consider the
following scripture:

Proverbs 5
18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

It's simple what this scripture is referring to

[Thunderchild]

Smilin: I am sure that there are some theologians who would have complexified it... after all, sex is grubby and not to be indulged in more than absolutely necessary, so it can't be about sex... there must be some purely spiritual significance to the verse. (not that I can find one, nor that I can find any support for the concept of sex being grubby etc and so forth ... but I am sure we could invent something to explain that passage away if we tried hard enough.)

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Smilin: I am sure that there are some theologians who would have complexified it... after all, sex is grubby and not to be indulged in more than absolutely necessary, so it can't be about sex... there must be some purely spiritual significance to the verse. (not that I can find one, nor that I can find any support for the concept of sex being grubby etc and so forth ... but I am sure we could invent something to explain that passage away if we tried hard enough.)

oh cmon, sex is not grubby. sex is awesome.

Can some married people check in on this one and speak for yourselves ???

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Smilin
I agree totally Dave.....I not only believe God
gave us the wonderful gift of sex between
husband and wife....everyone consider the
following scripture:

Proverbs 5
18 Let your fountain be blessed,
    And rejoice in the wife of your youth.

19 As a loving hind and a graceful doe,
    Let her breasts satisfy you at all times;
    Be exhilarated always with her love.   
20 For why should you, my son, be exhilarated with an adulteress
    And embrace the bosom of a foreigner?

It's simple what this scripture is referring to

I have a few things to say concerning this scripture.  First, do this passages have to be referring to intercourse?  Being satisfied by your wife's breasts and embracing a spouse's bosom does not sound like intercourse to me.  Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that this is referring to intercourse;  it says "wife of your youth," so it is pertaining to young married couples.  With that in mind, did not the Jewish people(as well as everyone back then) have many kids when the married couple was quite young;  due to death of any of their kids as infants(:(), re-population, and God's own commandment to "be fruitful and multiply?"  So all of the intercourse that the couple is having could just be for procreation, correct?  I know that they couldn't have procreative sex for the 9+ months during gestation and rest, etc. but they would have still have had intercourse many a time, no?  That is, ofcourse, assuming that these passages are referring to intercourse.

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Smilin: I am sure that there are some theologians who would have complexified it... after all, sex is grubby and not to be indulged in more than absolutely necessary, so it can't be about sex... there must be some purely spiritual significance to the verse. (not that I can find one, nor that I can find any support for the concept of sex being grubby etc and so forth ... but I am sure we could invent something to explain that passage away if we tried hard enough.)

I did not refer to sex as "grubby" and you know that.  It's all about the context and intent of the sex.  Also, since indulge means:  "Enjoy to excess," nothing should be indulged in.  I also never said that the verses are spiritual in nature;  I only stated that they could be referring to another type of "oneness," or only procreative sex, though they could be spiritual, atleast in part.  I, nor anyone else that I see(atleast in this thread), is trying to "explain away" any passage, the Bible is God-breathed and God-written, I would just like to discuss with fellow Christians what the nature and meaning of said passages are.

[Jeffwo]

This isn't clear enough to understand?

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


Sounds pretty clear to me. And I don't see any reference to procreation there either.

God bless,
Jeff

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
I thought this was a no brianer... God gave us sex organs so we could use them, duh!

There were good verses posted, God made sex for one man, one woman, one flesh, for life.

I agree, completely!  I am just trying to figure out in what situations we can partake in the gift of sex.  Obviously not pre- or extra- marital.  But for what intentions and purpose within marriage.

[PrinceJeff]

I agree with Jeffwo here. :)

[Thunderchild]

Well now - that was interesting. Seems that some people didn't notice that the comments in brackets showed my opening statement to be satirical.

OK - Take a look at the Song of Solomon... the actual statements of the book, not those of people who insist on believing there is something wrong with sex.

Or take a look at comments in the New Testament to the effect that husbands and wives are not to deprive each other...

Sex within a committed partnership is to be enjoyed, and it would seem - yes - indulged in, even.

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Well now - that was interesting. Seems that some people didn't notice that the comments in brackets showed my opening statement to be satirical.

OK - Take a look at the Song of Solomon... the actual statements of the book, not those of people who insist on believing there is something wrong with sex.

Or take a look at comments in the New Testament to the effect that husbands and wives are not to deprive each other...

Sex within a committed partnership is to be enjoyed, and it would seem - yes - indulged in, even.

yeah, didnt notice that, thanks for the clarification. lol

[SpiritPsalmist]

A Sheep,

It seems that all the scriptures given are saying together that marital sex is for fun and procreation.

The timing is between you and your mate. God created the event. We're to enjoy it. It is a means of showing affection.

Intercourse does not always "have" to take place, but generally does because that just the way God made the body to respond.

[Caedmon]

I have heard several times remarks of this nature:

"Come on, sex is not just for procreation, you're supposed to be able to use it for recreation too."

Now you can show me where any person that believes that procreation should always be a possibility within sex never takes pleasure in sex. Or is the definition of "sex for recreation", "sex where conception is prevented so that we can feel good without having to worry about the responsibility or emotional or financial drain of unwanted children"? I'm supposing that the only two possibilities that certain Christians believe in are: (1) Sex can be used exclusively for procreation, (2) Sex can be used exclusively for pleasure. I have as yet not seen these certain people clearly realize that the two can be partaken of simultaneously, and on the long term basis.

Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, the fruit of the womb is a reward. - Psalm 127:3, NASB, bolding mine

I've heard many mainstream Christians say that God's salvation is a gift as well. How many times have you heard an evangelist say, "Jesus' salvation is a free gift, just waiting for you to just walk up and take it. It's so simple!". And yet I have watched time after time, as Christians have made excuses why they accept only partially God's two-fold plan of procreation/intimacy. Is not the Christian life hard? Is not the Christian life emotionally and financially draining at times? God says He will always take care of His children. Why worry? Trust God in His promises, and follow His commandment: "Be fruitful and multiply."

[Susan]

I think that the procreation-only viewpoint is good because it sees both husband and wife as more than objects of desire.
I think the "sex for pleasure" ethic is why we see so many divorces today. The wife gets old or she doesn't want to become a pervert in order to keep everything "novel" and "like the day we were married." So what happens? she gets dumped for a younger, more beautiful, and less "inhibited" woman.
Conversely the husband becomes ill or doesn't want to engage in perverted things to keep "novelty." so what happens? the wife looks for another man.
Sickening.
I think if people reserved sex for procreation and found other ways to show affection, that sex would be more "special" and less of a "commodity," marriages would last longer, and society would be better.
Just my .02

[Caedmon]

Susan, intimacy is one of the two essential components of sexuality. You're claiming the opposite of what those that claim sex is for pleasure only are doing. A married couple experiencing pleasure during sex is not the same thing as perversion. Sex is a method for a married couple to show affection for one another. An affection that leads to one of the most powerful forces on the face of the planet... new life.

[Thunderchild]

Susan: You will find that if people can't get home cooking, it only increases the temptation to buy take away. And when it comes to sex, take-away comes at a prohibitive cost.

 

There are a number of reasons behind a high divorce rate. Those that you have stated are VERY low on the list. Among the highest is the myth that people, even in a marriage, own their own bodies, and have the right to say "no" whenever it suits them. But when you ask "is your partner permitted to seek sex partners wherever and whenever the mood takes your partner," people invariably answer "no." There is only one possible response to the person who makes both assertions - "I see. You expect to be able to exercise the prerogatives of ownership over your partner, but not the responsibilities that attend upon ownership."

 

Flatly, two rights are available to a married person: 1/ You have the right to ownership of your body. 2/ You have the right to do everything in your power to ensure that YOU are happy in YOUR marriage. To exercise one of these rights, you have to give up the other. This applies equally to male and female. 

[GrowingInHim]

Originally posted by Jeffwo
This isn't clear enough to understand?

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


Sounds pretty clear to me. And I don't see any reference to procreation there either.

God bless,
Jeff

 

Im married and wholeheartedly agree.  This is how my husband and I work our marraige.   ;)

[Andrew]

"I think that the procreation-only viewpoint is good because it sees both husband and wife as more than objects of desire."

IOW, a husband and wife can only come together when both are in agreement to have a baby? so when they decide 2 is enough, it wld mean they cant have sex anymore? how is that even practical?

[Susan]

That would be possible because they could demonstrate affection and care for each other in ways other than sex.

I pity the person, any person, who sees sexuality as the only or even the predominant means and expression of caring and love for one's spouse. :(

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Susan
That would be possible because they could demonstrate affection and care for each other in ways other than sex.

I pity the person, any person, who sees sexuality as the only or even the predominant means and expression of caring and love for one's spouse. :(

susan, if you get married you will see what everyone is talking about. a healthy sexual relationship is not just jump in bed and have intercourse, then go to sleep. there are 100 types of touching, which show phycial affection. Do you have a desire to kiss someone you love? I do. Can you rub your spouce's back to show you care? Yes. Does sexual intercourse count as showing physical affection? Yes. A normal sexual relationship does not see intercourse as the only means of expressing care and love for your spouse. It sees it as an important part, in addition to many other things.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Andrew
"I think that the procreation-only viewpoint is good because it sees both husband and wife as more than objects of desire."

IOW, a husband and wife can only come together when both are in agreement to have a baby? so when they decide 2 is enough, it wld mean they cant have sex anymore? how is that even practical?

Everything works out just fine if you're open to the gift of God, children. Then you wouldn't even have to ask such impractical questions. Will you reject the gift of God Andrew?

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Susan
That would be possible because they could demonstrate affection and care for each other in ways other than sex.

I pity the person, any person, who sees sexuality as the only or even the predominant means and expression of caring and love for one's spouse. :(

Uh huh, and you haven't heard anyone say that they believe that, have you? :scratch:

[Susan]

(edited by me for potential ad hominem remark)

:sorry: about that! 

[Susan]

That would be possible because they could demonstrate affection and care for each other in ways other than sex.

And yes, I HAVE heard people say this. . .

[Caedmon]

Sex occupies a remarkably small percentage of married life. If someone is under the illusion that it is the only or major way to show affection, they are intensely mistaken. I have not said that it is the only or major source of marital affection, nor has anyone else on this thread.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Susan
That would be possible because they could demonstrate affection and care for each other in ways other than sex.

And yes, I HAVE heard people say this. . .

I meant specifically on this thread. Any source quotes? :confused:

[Loser For Jesus]

Originally posted by Jeffwo
This isn't clear enough to understand?

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


Sounds pretty clear to me. And I don't see any reference to procreation there either.

God bless,
Jeff

Again, this pretty much covers it. As several people have already said, this is a "no brainer". Scripture is very clear. All we need to do is obey it.

Why is there anything left to discuss?

Prov 18:2  A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

love in Christ,

Malcolm

[Help-me-learn]

HEB 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral

The is about sex and the only thing here is make sure it is with you spouse.
where is it that you can only have sex to procreat?

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Help-me-learn
HEB 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral

The is about sex and the only thing here is make sure it is with you spouse.
where is it that you can only have sex to procreat?

I'm not saying to have sex "only" for procreation. Please don't make me say it again. I'm saying that married couples should always be open to the possibility of conception, which is in accordance with God's gift of life in children in the marriage relationship.

[Susan]

See what strife discussing this is causing?
Doesn't that say something in itself?

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Susan
See what strife discussing this is causing?
Doesn't that say something in itself?

What strife? :confused: Well, if "strife" means open debate, then yes. I think it says that some of us disagree with each other. That's normal. I don't have a problem with it. You can't ask us to stop debating just because you don't want to do it anymore. That's not fair.

[Andrew]

humblejoe, you said: "Everything works out just fine if you're open to the gift of God, children. Then you wouldn't even have to ask such impractical questions. Will you reject the gift of God Andrew?"

u got the wrong person. I was quoting Susan. :)

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Andrew
humblejoe, you said: "Everything works out just fine if you're open to the gift of God, children. Then you wouldn't even have to ask such impractical questions. Will you reject the gift of God Andrew?"

u got the wrong person. I was quoting Susan. :)

No, I was addressing your reaction. Let me break it down for you...

IOW, a husband and wife can only come together when both are in agreement to have a baby?

A married couple should always be open to the gift of children that God can bring into their lives. Would you reject a blessing of God?

so when they decide 2 is enough, it wld mean they cant have sex anymore?

No Andrew... but how many is "enough"? Is two enough? Three? Four point six? How many blessings do you think God wants to bestow upon you? You believe in Christian prosperity, don't you? If God bestows blessings of children upon your family, do you not also believe that God will faithfully provide you with the funds to support those blessings that He introduces into your life? Would you say, "Nope God, that's enough, I don't want you to bless me anymore. No no, that's ok, I don't want any more of your children". Do you believe God would allow any more children into your family than you could handle? Have faith!

how is that even practical?

What's practical is if you stop worrying and just trust in God to faithfully take care of your family. God will take care of your family, have faith!

Just to clarify, I don't believe that sex is only for the purpose of procreation, as Susan does. I believe that God designed sex as a blessing to couples with a two-fold purpose, procreation/intimacy. Intimacy brings forth new life, and life engenders a closer intimacy.

[Andrew]

humblejoe, you're still getting me and Susan mixed-up so i'll just ignore your post.

I'm not against babies -- the more the merrier as long as you hve the resources to take good care of them.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Andrew
humblejoe, you're still getting me and Susan mixed-up so i'll just ignore your post.

I'm not against babies -- the more the merrier as long as you hve the resources to take good care of them.

Well let me ask you this Andrew: Do you approve of artificial birth control?

[Susan]

he said it earlier that he does.

BTW have you ever considered that some people think about things other than sex all the time?

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Susan

BTW have you ever considered that some people think about things other than sex all the time? [/B]

As opposed to whom? What are you inferring?

[Susan]

I don't want to flame. :)

[IslandBreeze]

There's a great website : www.themarriagebed.com

It's run by a couple who believes sex isn't just for procreation. They use scripture to back everything up!

[Caedmon]

I don't want to flame. :)

Alright then... take care with your comments.

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by Cammie
There's a great website : www.themarriagebed.com

It's run by a couple who believes sex isn't just for procreation. They use scripture to back everything up!

Well I sure am glad that I believe that sex is always for procreation and intimacy. :)

[Susan]

Yeah, right. I am not soiling my eyes or my hard drive by going to that site :holy:

[Susan]

 :rolleyes: Does rule 4 not still apply even in this thread (and I didn't read the site but I can guess the content.)

 

[Susan]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=423510#post423510

Let's continue the discussion here. No flaming or insults from ANYONE. Please. . . :)

[Daniella]

personally and this in my opionon i dont believe everything in the bible.. i mean in the bible it says that women should do this and that for the husbands and have babies ..heck i know some pastors that dont even know how to make toast lol my point being is it depends what you feel like i am married and hubby cooks for me and i clean.. and as for kids i am not here to procreate any kids if i so dont have to.. which i dont want any kids so that means i must be disobeying God cuz i dont want any kids and my hubby cooks for me and i dont kiss his butt right? lol

marriage is 50/50 people not 50/90
if i went with what everything said in the bible or other resources or what society thinks. i think i would have a very unhappy life ;)
 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by A Sheep
I agree, completely!  I am just trying to figure out in what situations we can partake in the gift of sex.  Obviously not pre- or extra- marital.  But for what intentions and purpose within marriage.

It is a deep expression of love, a means of intimacy that you share with him and him only.  I mean you love your friends, right?  You love your pastor, your parents, your brothers and sisters.  But the ultimate act of love and giving totally of yourself to another is sex.  Which the bible clearly states is intended for married couples only.  The bible is so clear, in fact, that sex is for married couples that I would have to believe that if sex were intended for pro-creation only, the bible would state that as well.  As many people have quoted Paul in 1Corinthians, I will spare you from having to read it again.  I would encourage you to read it for yourself, alone after some prayer, then read the Song OF Solomon as well.  I will say to you though, and I mean this in a loving way, if you ONLY have sex when you are trying to pro create and you withhold it otherwise, your husband will "burn with passion" somewhere else.

I am married, sex is fun, sex is great and I would miss it very, very much if I were cut off from it.  My wife and I spend time each night in devotion to God. After we work through our devotion and spend time in prayer together, putting God first, I just can't see where it would be wrong, wasteful or over indulgent to share our love by making love. 

Your apprehension translates to me that you are a bit fearful of the act, thus you are trying to narrow down the time and occasion that it is proper.  Between husband and wife, it is always proper unless you are neglecting God, work or children to do it.  Between two consenting, married people, anything goes as long as you do not involve other people, even through use of pornography, and you're not breaking the law, such as doing it in public.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Susan
Yeah, right. I am not soiling my eyes or my hard drive by going to that site :holy:

Actually Susan, I checked it out.  It's pretty good.. The couple is a christian couple and they do back things up with scripture.  There are p[laces that may give a little more infromation than you are looking for, but you should check it out.  It's not filthy or disrespectful and its not by Tim Lahaye.  

[KeepTheFaith15]

so we all well...er most of us agree that it's not just for procreation? i'm 15 and when im married, i will make love to my husband when he want's to make love because im the wife and i have to submit, but i will not do it like 24 times a day i dont believe in all that cause that goes abit to overboard, but god made sex and he made it for us to enjoy not just to have baby's cause what happens if you have all the babys you want does that mean no more sex? then thats when the wife or husband would look else where i just think god made it for us to enjoy but all in the while not go overboard, to make love to our husband/wife and not just for procreation i mean songs of solomon say it...i mean intimacy is a good thing if it's just a kiss or holding hands, i mean it would get boring if you were just making love to have baby's i would much rather focus on giving my full heart to my husband and exploring his body and make LOVE to him not just meaningless sex, i would want to enjoy it and not have the thought "i hope i have a baby, or i hope this works and we have a kid" thought going through my head cause it would just be dull, i prolly got off topic but it doesnt say n the bible "sex is for procreation only! if you think that im sorry. but no. :) and thats my 04. errrr my 02.

[Andrew]

Keepthefaith15,

For a 15-year-old you have a lot of wisdom and are on the right track! Here are the scriptures to back up what you've posted:

1 Cor 7:
4 For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does.
5 Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.

Now here's a verse that proves that sex in marriage is not just for procreation:

1 Cor 7:9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.

what do you think the lack of self-control/burning with passion here (and even v4) is refering to? Sex for recreation! The couple cant keep their hands off each other so Paul's advice is "get married then!" before you sin.

Surely you dont think the hornie couple is lacking self-control/burning with passion in the sense that they cant stop thinking about starting a family and having babies. No red-hot blooded male or even female will tell you that they ONLY approach their partner (married or not) when they want to have junior no 2 or 3.... *LOL

[Daniella]

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
[B]so   i'm 15 and when im married, i will make love to my husband when he want's to make love because im the wife and i have to submit

that is a joke submit to the hubby? who saids you HAVE to submit i really want to know? oh thats right the bible says that you have to but the bible says a lot of things if you look at the other things it says in the bible like dont have sex on ya pms and all this you would be surprised.. anywho i am not attacking you i just find it hard that you HAVE to do something thats like saying that if your hubby someday says i want a kid and you dont want one but what the heck you do what ya told and have a kid.. that doesnt make any sense..

[Susan]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=423510#post423510

Could we please continue the discussion from that thread here? And no flaming or insults please. :)

[Daniella]

Originally posted by Susan
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=423510#post423510

Could we please continue the discussion from that thread here? And no flaming or insults please. :)

 

that thread is  CLOSED so i dont know why you keep posting it

[Susan]

Because I wanted to continue the discussion we had going before some members erupted into flames. :)

[Daniella]

Originally posted by Susan
Because I wanted to continue the discussion we had going before some members erupted into flames. :)

 

ohhhh so why didnt ya say you had me confused lol :D

[Susan]

So is there anyone who wants to continue "Reasoned Discussion," minus the flames, here? :)

[Smilin]

I thought discussing sexual behavior was against the rules?

FUNNY...everytime I start a thread on it...I get my hair singed with a flame-thrower, called a pervert, say I'm sick....

(no names mentioned)

And sex within marriage? what's that?

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by Smilin
I thought discussing sexual behavior was against the rules?

FUNNY...everytime I start a thread on it...I get my hair singed with a flame-thrower, called a pervert, say I'm sick....

(no names mentioned)

And sex within marriage? what's that?


Discussing the topic is fine as long as detailed descriptions are avoided and any words or thoughts that may be offensive. This is a family oriented web site and some of the members are as young as 10 years old, so post comments that will keep them in mind.

[KeepTheFaith15]

Originally posted by Daniella
that is a joke submit to the hubby? who saids you HAVE to submit i really want to know? oh thats right the bible says that you have to but the bible says a lot of things if you look at the other things it says in the bible like dont have sex on ya pms and all this you would be surprised.. anywho i am not attacking you i just find it hard that you HAVE to do something thats like saying that if your hubby someday says i want a kid and you dont want one but what the heck you do what ya told and have a kid.. that doesnt make any sense..

 

first of all i would want to make my husband happy so if he approaches me and says he wants a baby i'd say yes because first of all i want one! but i mean if i wasnt interested i would talk to him about it and see if we couldnt wait until i was ready or well you know i wouldnt jump all over him case he wants a baby and i dont. daniella i respect your opinion completly cause before i got saved and was like wifes submit to husbands? i dont think so. but you know whatever i can do to make him happy then i will do it, unless it's something sick and out of the question. but anyways i respect your opinion but i dont feel the same way and i hope you can respect that. god bless.

[Susan]

The point is not to discuss sex itself but rather the worldviews of it.

Read Reasoned Discussion, (although it's closed) to see what I believe.

[Daniella]

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
 

first of all i would want to make my husband happy so if he approaches me and says he wants a baby i'd say yes because first of all i want one! but i mean if i wasnt interested i would talk to him about it and see if we couldnt wait until i was ready or well you know i wouldnt jump all over him case he wants a baby and i dont. daniella i respect your opinion completly cause before i got saved and was like wifes submit to husbands? i dont think so. but you know whatever i can do to make him happy then i will do it, unless it's something sick and out of the question. but anyways i respect your opinion but i dont feel the same way and i hope you can respect that. god bless.

Yes. i understand where your coming from.. i was just saying thats what society thinks either christian or not that women should submit i guess you could say i see it with my mom and how she does all this stuff and my stepdad doesnt even work and i said to myself never will i do that ever.. but i been saved since i been 8 and never heard of that be4 and even if i had it wouldnt of changed the way i felt ya know? my marriage is 50/50 but i still wear the pants LOL but seriously dont think just because you do or dont submit to your hubby someday it doesnt make ya any better then the next person.. but you seem to have ya head on ya shoulders at 15! i wish i was like that when i was 15.. good on ya really.. just do what you FEEL is right not what someone tells you to do thats all if you feel in ya heart that you want to submit to hubby great cuz thats how you feel but if someday you change your mind that you dont want to do that then dont think its against God or that your a bad person you want to have a happy life not a  unhappy one thats why so many marriages end.. God Bless you to! :D

[KeepTheFaith15]

i can see where your coming from with your mom man if my husband sat of his duff 24/7 then i'd insist on him getting a job cause i would rather have it 50/50. :)

[EJO]

Originally posted by A Sheep
I was wondering where in the Bible it says that we, as Christians, are allowed to, and even possibly required to, have sex with our spouse for fun and not simply for procreation. Which passages of scripture state that we are allowed to have intercourse for the sole purpose of recreation as opposed to having intercourse solely to create a new life? Please only post scripture from the Bible and only from the 66 "Protestant" books of said book. Please do not post organized religions' traditions and/or rules; the Bible only, please. Who came up with the idea of the honeymoon and the certain acts that take place on that night? I am aware of the OT passages referring to a man and a woman becoming "one flesh" as well as Jesus' quoting of this, but where does it say that this is a physical (i.e. sexual) "oneness" and not anyother type of joinings(i.e their beliefs, their dreams, their future, them living together, procreating with eachother, them being inseparable till "death do us part," or a combination of some of these things?) I know that wanting to make love simply for the act of procreation and not for enjoyment is not a very popular view to hold, but that does not automatically render it an incorrect view to hold. Scripture regarding the act of intercourse within the confines of marriage and your opinions on the subject of sex(or, lack thereof) within marriage would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Read the book Song of Solomon
He writes about sexual intercourse twice. Tommy Nelson has a great teaching resource for the book as well.

[I can eat 50 eggs]

First off, no Christian husband should be sitting on his duff 24 hours a day. We are called to be like Christ was to his church, and lay down our very lives daily for our wives, just as Christ did for his bride. However, a big heroic, save your family from a fire act is actually easier to do than the day to day dying to yourself and your wants, desires, and priorities in order to be a better husband to your wife.

[Susan]

Tommy Nelson? :sick::sick::sick::sick:

You mean the person that perverted such a wonderful allegory, meant to be interpreted spiritually, into Biblical "lemon"?

No thank you.

BTW he denies that lust exists and calls it "misdirected desire." :mad: