Soul and Spirit

[2scoops]

What is your definition of the soul and the spirit?

[aReformedPatriot]

What is your definition of the soul and the spirit?

I prefer the dichotomist view. Each person is comprised of a material body and a soul/spirit. The words for soul (psyche) and spirit (pneuma) are used interchangebly in scripture as synonyms.

Although the trichotomist position can be shown to have some strength, I believe the overall testimony of scripture is that they are not distinct elements of a person, but rather are synonyms terms.

[Flynmonkie]

What is your definition of the soul and the spirit?
:wave: Is there a particular reason you ask? Something your trying to figure out? Or just curious of others thoughts? :)

[HumbleMan]

I believe your soul is your spark of life, what God has given you to make you human. I don't believe we have a Spirit until Christ comes into our hearts, and it is then that the Spirit guides you through life and takes you to your final journey.

[aReformedPatriot]

I believe your soul is your spark of life, what God has given you to make you human. I don't believe we have a Spirit until Christ comes into our hearts, and it is then that the Spirit guides you through life and takes you to your final journey.

That is trichotomy. ;)

[HumbleMan]

That is trichotomy. ;)

I'm not good with big words. ;)

[Flynmonkie]

I'm not good with big words. ;)
You and me both! :thumbsup: But Thanks TLE! I learned something new!

[JPPT1974]

Hey count me three to!

[aReformedPatriot]

:) Ya'll can donate to the Pay Mark's Tuition Because he is Broke Fund in order to support my learning these big words and therefore enabling me to teach them to you! It is a win-win situation for all involved :P j/k of course, except for the broke part :|

[abbygirlforever]

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Dividing soul and spirit implies that there is a difference between the two.

The soul is the spark of life in a person - the mind, the will, the thoughs and memories. The spirit of a person has to do with their connection to God. The spirit of Elijah was passed on to John the Baptist, so it must've come from God. Those who are not in Christ have a different spirit, one inclined to evil.

Perhaps that is why it takes the Holy Spirit to convict a person of sin so they will accept Christ, because it takes the HS to change the spirit of a person.

That is the best way I can explain it. It took me a long time to figure it out, and I'm not sure if I have it exactly right.

[Mikecpking]

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Dividing soul and spirit implies that there is a difference between the two.

The soul is the spark of life in a person - the mind, the will, the thoughs and memories. The spirit of a person has to do with their connection to God. The spirit of Elijah was passed on to John the Baptist, so it must've come from God. Those who are not in Christ have a different spirit, one inclined to evil.

Perhaps that is why it takes the Holy Spirit to convict a person of sin so they will accept Christ, because it takes the HS to change the spirit of a person.

That is the best way I can explain it. It took me a long time to figure it out, and I'm not sure if I have it exactly right.

Hi,
The bible does not teach that the 'Soul' is the mind, will thoughts or memories at all. The Bible does not even teach that the soul is immortal. The trichotomous or tri-partite view comes from Greek thinking that polluted the Hebrew/New Testament view on personhood. It is a more complicated picture; the Hebrews regarded people as a totality in nature (for example, you don't have a soul, you are a soul. You don't have a body, you are a body).
A person becomes a 'soul' (Hebrew, Nephesh) from the infusion of divine breath into the moulded dust. In physical terms, 'Nephesh' means 'Gullet', 'throat', 'neck' and came to mean that vital motion of life.

[2scoops]

Well. the reason I ask is because I do not believe I have ever heard anyone explain it to me. I did read a book once and the author, if I remember correctly said that that the spirit was the mind, and thesould was the heart, or vice versa.

[A Brother In Christ]

What is your definition of the soul and the spirit?

1 thes 5:23 list body soul and spirit in the verse

body = flesh

soul = emotions

spirit = rationale

we have a soulish body now..
spiritual body in the future...with no blood

[Mikecpking]

1 thes 5:23 list body soul and spirit in the verse

body = flesh

soul = emotions

spirit = rationale

we have a soulish body now..
spiritual body in the future...with no blood

I thes 5: 23 in context to the rest of the biblical teaching on personhood is not the complete picture. In context, its rhetoric from Paul.

The 'Body,soul, spirit' view of personhood is not a satisfactory one, because it creates the impression that the human person is comprised of 3 parts and not a totality. This view has been influenced from Greek philosophy rather than by Hebrew thinking and the NEwe Testament words thoroughly polluted by Greek concepts of what the soul, spirit and the body etc are. In 1 Thes 23, the verb and adjective used is in the singular form so its meaning is 'the WHOLE of you' rather than 'PARTS of you'. And of course, what is missing is the 'heart'; which is a key biblical concept....

Obviously, when looking at a totality in personhood, the wourd 'Soul' can also be used for the whole person, as does spirit and body..

A better picture for personhood could look something like this:

Basar
Flesh Body
Heart
soul Spirit

'Soul' in a nutshell is 'lifeforce' it is bound up with the blood and at the death of the person, it dies (numbers 23:10) draining away with the blood. At resuscitation, it 'returns' not that its gone anywhere..

[A Brother In Christ]

1 thes 5:23 list body soul and spirit in the verse

body = flesh

soul = emotions

spirit = rationale

we have a soulish body now..
spiritual body in the future...with no blood

the heart is where all three come together in the mind to make a descision

[MrJim]

I heard it this way:


Old mennonite preacher (George R Brunk II) invited 2 people up on the stage with him. He said the three of them represented the spirit, soul, and body.

Now if I remember this right he said that if you take away the spirit and have just the soul and body you would have an animal. He said that animals are "soulish" creatures, though not with human souls of course. Animals don't communicate with God since they don't have a spirit.

He then said the soul and spirit together only would be an angel. Angels don't have bodies of flesh and are unable to communicate to physical world (Divine Intervention excepted) as we know it.

The idea is that the spirit is the part that enables one to communicate to God. So the combined three parts of the human is what makes us a unique creation.

It makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

[A Brother In Christ]

I heard it this way:


Old mennonite preacher (George R Brunk II) invited 2 people up on the stage with him. He said the three of them represented the spirit, soul, and body.

Now if I remember this right he said that if you take away the spirit and have just the soul and body you would have an animal. He said that animals are "soulish" creatures, though not with human souls of course. Animals don't communicate with God since they don't have a spirit.

He then said the soul and spirit together only would be an angel. Angels don't have bodies of flesh and are unable to communicate to physical world (Divine Intervention excepted) as we know it.

The idea is that the spirit is the part that enables one to communicate to God. So the combined three parts of the human is what makes us a unique creation.

It makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

one problem with this ...

jude 6-7, 2 peter 2:4-5, Gen 6:2,4

[MrJim]

one problem with this ...

jude 6-7, 2 peter 2:4-5, Gen 6:2,4

I listened again to the sermon and it sounds as though he knew it was the weakest of the examples. His point is that we don't see angels flying about us on a normal basis. Scriptures cited were regarding fallen angels and perhaps he didn't mention them since they are in another spiritual/physical state?

[aReformedPatriot]

Excerpt from my theology paper due next week (half of which focuses on this issue):

"The problems with Trichotomy also form a smooth segue to discuss Dichotomy. The dichotomist maintains that “soul” and “spirit” are one and the same. The chief argument stems from the fact that the two terms can be shown to be synonymous. It can be shown that the terms “soul” (greek psyche) and “spirit” (pneuma) are often used interchangeably. The Magnificat for example says, “my soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my savior” (Luke 1:46-47). This is an example of synonymous parallelism wherein a single idea is expressed in two different forms. Likewise scripture also testifies that when death comes, either the “soul” abdicates or the “spirit” abdicates (cf. Luke 12:20; Eccl 12:7; John 19:30). “It should be noted that scripture nowhere says that a persons “soul and spirit” departed or went to heaven or were yielded up to God” together. [1] (#_ftn1)

If the soul is to be differentiated from the spirit, why then can the soul do everything the spirit can do? As noted above, Trichotomist’s maintain the soul contains the emotions, intellect and will. Yet, scripture says the spirit too can experience emotion (cf. Acts 17:16) and share our intellect (cf. Mark 2:8). It is then no surprise that trichotomists have trouble identifying what exactly the difference between soul and spirit are. Furthermore, in Matthew 10:28 defines the whole person as simply “body and soul” the spirit is not mentioned adding to the defense that “soul” and “spirit” are one and the same.

For this reason, I believe the dichotomist position is the most accurate portrayal of the Biblical model. The trichotomists strengths are likewise the dichotomists weaknesses but it is definitely reasonable to say that the dividing of the “soul and spirit” in Heb 4:12 can be seen as Hebrew parallelism. The weaknesses are far outweighed by the strengths of the position and the trichotomist defenses are not definitive in any sense."


[1] (#_ftnref1) Ibid., 474

[A Brother In Christ]

Yet if soul and pirit was the same ...why in John 4:23-24 state that God is spirit...only

[A Brother In Christ]

I listened again to the sermon and it sounds as though he knew it was the weakest of the examples. His point is that we don't see angels flying about us on a normal basis. Scriptures cited were regarding fallen angels and perhaps he didn't mention them since they are in another spiritual/physical state?

kind alike Son of God eating food when He does not need too

But

[Gold Dragon]

Any monists or modalists around?

[MrJim]

Any monists or modalists around?

Can you define those terms-I would expect that its a singular approach to man-that he's not made up of 2 or 3 separate parts but only 1.

[aReformedPatriot]

Can you define those terms-I would expect that its a singular approach to man-that he's not made up of 2 or 3 separate parts but only 1.

Monism is the third view that no one should or really embraces. It is the view that there is no soul or spirit only a body and that a person cannot really be a person aside from a body.

Some maintain there is no resurrection of the body (and ultimately lead to the denial of Jesus' resurrection or it can allow for a ressurection at some later point.

In anycase it is unscriptural on many facets. At least Trichotomy and Dichotomy have more in common than not. Scripture seems to clearly affirm that there is a seperate immaterial side to man. It is infact the soul/spirit which comprises the 'person.' In other words your a soul who has a body.

Yet, scripture contends that to be away from the body is to be at home with the Lord (cf. 2 Cor 5:8-10). This is a direct a direct affront to the monistic view. I am not too sure how one fully comes to embrace this view because it does not make sense to me.

[aReformedPatriot]

Yet if soul and pirit was the same ...why in John 4:23-24 state that God is spirit...only

There is no contradiction, God is a totally distinctive entity. You can grieve God just as the soul or the spirit can be grieved. God is a spirit who can 'think' on a supreme level just as our soul or spirit thinks (has intellect), etc.

[A Brother In Christ]

1 thes 5:23 list body soul and spirit in the verse

body = flesh

soul = emotions

spirit = rationale

we have a soulish body now..
spiritual body in the future...with no blood

i will stick with this

[JPPT1974]

i will stick with this

So will I my friend!! :thumbsup: