Death Penalty...yes or no?

[jcright]

Due to another thread, I thought I would post this question.

Are you for or against the death penalty and why? Don't answer yet, keep reading.

Currently I am for the death penalty. The reason I post is both for curiosity sake as well as convincing sake. I'm not sold on the idea of the DP. If you've been following along in the other thread, then you may be surprised to know that I'm not really that interested in having someone's life terminated. You couldn't hire me to throw the switch or inject the needle of death. What I am interested in though is safety. Safety for myself. Safety for my wife. Safety for our future children. I'm also interested in seeing justice met. Of course, I'm always interested in what God has to say and following that. Based on what I've read so far, I remain unconvinced either way. True, I lead towards the DP, but I haven't closed the book on the subject just yet.

So how do you justify or deny the DP? Let me throw a log on the fire to get it blazing even higher. How do you justify or deny the DP when considering II Tim 3:16?

[aReformedPatriot]

Personally I am against because I cannot rationally ask someone to do something that I cannot do myself. I dont think I could electrocute, or pump full of poision someone who was now no threat to me as they are locked up.

I do think I could kill someone if we were dueling it out with a couple pistols and I were acting in self defense or in defense of my family. Its a different context.

Scripture however says in the OT that if one man kills another his life shall be required of him for the primary reason man bears the image of God.

[Pickles]

I am against the death penalty. I think that if you really want the person to suffer after what they did that you shouldn't kill them because they should have to live with what they did. By killing them they won't have to sit around all day every day thinking about it. Killing the person puts them out of their misery.

[Richard]

I am aganist the death penatly because it's a cruel way to torture someone to death. I think locking them up would be punishment enough.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I am against the death penalty. I come from a law enforcement family and was once a police officer myself, you'd think I would sway the other way. People have asked me, "What if your family was murdered or raped and murdered, wouldn't you want the person to die?" Yes, I would want justice, I would have anger and fury beyond words in me and I would want to kill them myself, but I would need to do what God wants me to do. WWJD? Forgive the person and allow God to take away my anger and hate and let God work his justice, not man. It would be very difficult to do, yes.

I do not feel it is man's place to judge another man and declare that man needs to die. God will have justice in His own time. That timeframe may not be our timeframe, but God is in control.

The death penalty is not the answer. Rehabilitation is not the answer. Prison is not the answer. A society with a conscience is the answer. We've allowed our country to soften up so much on so many things. Just turn on your TV sometime and watch network channels for 5 minutes.

I don't have the answers. Our society is in a bad way and anyone who cannot fore see the return of Christ in our time has to really consider what is happening in our world. How much longer can God wait? Thankfully, He is more patient than me.

God Bless

[Project 86]

I'm for the death penalty because at the very start God says he's for it in the case someone murders another person.

(Genesis 9:6) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Also this article will give more reasoning:

Reasons for Capital Punishment (http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/social_issues/reasonsf.htm)

[TwinCrier]

I am for capital punishment. God instituted the death penalty and the results of not using it have been devasting. I've read many of the arguments against it, and they all basiclly come down to the same basic premise.... that God has somehow changed His mind on this issue. The verses used to argue against it are never even relating to captial punisment, context is everything.

Matthew 15:6b Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

Maybe I haven't read enough Biblical support for it. I guess I didn't even know or think to look for it in the Bible and where in the Bible to look.

[arunma]

While I agree that the Law of Moses prescribes the death penalty, I'm against it for a few reasons. Most importantly, the death penalty is an irreversable punishment. If a person is wrongly convicted of a crime, he can be released. But he can't be brought back from the dead. Furthermore, the death penalty is more expensive than imprisoning convicts for life. Finally, I don't think the death penalty makes our society any safer, since it's enforced on such rare occasions (not that we want it enforced more often). Even with the death penalty, there will still be drug related shootings, gang fights, and many other crimes which cause death.

As I already said, the Law of Moses allows the death penalty. But I see two problems with using the Law to argue for enforcement of the death penalty. First of all, our apostles teach that we are no longer under the Law. Secondly, even if we were to base secular law on the Law of Moses (which isn't prohibited in the Bible), we would have to apply the entire Law.

Unfortunately, the Law prescribes the death penalty for sins that our society would not consider worthy of capital punishment. These sins include attacking one's father or mother, cursing one's father or mother, selling a man into slavery or taking possession of such a slave, owning an ox which has killed another person (provided the owner knows that the ox was dangerous), having sex with an animal, doing work on the Sabbath, and practicing homosexual sex.

Are we really ready to institute the death penalty for these sins? If not, I recommend that we not use the Law of Moses to justify the death penalty.

That said, I don't think the death penalty is intrinsically wrong either. Romans 13:4 says, "For he [the governing authority] is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." So while I think the death penalty is permissible, I think we in America should use the democratic powers that we happen to possess to stop or at least curtail the use of the death penalty.

[McDLT]

I'm against the death penalty. Didn't Jesus say "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"?

I'm all for finding ways of peace, making peace, and actively seeking peace, when someone is dead there is no way to do this.

Just some of my thoughts.

[mesue]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I'm still for the death penalty.

[Crazy Liz]

Personally I am against because I cannot rationally ask someone to do something that I cannot do myself. I dont think I could electrocute, or pump full of poision someone who was now no threat to me as they are locked up.

Most importantly, the death penalty is an irreversable punishment. If a person is wrongly convicted of a crime, he can be released. But he can't be brought back from the dead. Furthermore, the death penalty is more expensive than imprisoning convicts for life. Finally, I don't think the death penalty makes our society any safer, since it's enforced on such rare occasions (not that we want it enforced more often).

I'm against the death penalty. Didn't Jesus say "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"?

I'm all for finding ways of peace, making peace, and actively seeking peace, when someone is dead there is no way to do this.
What they said.

[Stacey]

I don't want to see people killed. However the system is so faulty that an active child rapist or murdered can be let out, and the government isn't doing their job to rehabilitate the criminals. Plus... some that are rehabilitated are beyond help. Would you rather have a sexual molester killed, or eventually back on the streets with your children?

[Crazy Liz]

I don't want to see people killed. However the system is so faulty that an active child rapist or murdered can be let out, and the government isn't doing their job to rehabilitate the criminals. Plus... some that are rehabilitated are beyond help. Would you rather have a sexual molester killed, or eventually back on the streets with your children?

Wouldn't a faulty system lead a Christian to oppose capital punishment? Fix the system first before we start killing people, no?

[arunma]

I don't want to see people killed. However the system is so faulty that an active child rapist or murdered can be let out, and the government isn't doing their job to rehabilitate the criminals. Plus... some that are rehabilitated are beyond help. Would you rather have a sexual molester killed, or eventually back on the streets with your children?

Stacey, child rape and sexual molestation are not capital offenses in America. In other words: in America, these crimes are not punishable by death. Furthermore, most forms of murder are also not punishable by death. In the American justice system, the death penalty cannot be applied to those who commit second degree murder or manslaughter. Only first degree murderers (those who plan their murders in advance) can be executed. Furthermore, the death penalty is rarely carried out. In fact, many criminals die in death row, because it is so difficult (legally speaking) to execute them.

So if we end the death penalty, it would not result in a significantly increased release of the criminals you've mentioned.

[Flynmonkie]

I am against.

Murder and Self-defense or protection - are two entirely different things.

If someone commits the sin of murder - I do not believe it is biblical to return the favor in this manner as punishment.

If someone is threatening life (i.e. genocide, threat of war, terrorism etc) without having to think of own personal issues of protection. I do believe that if it is the only option - it is just. However ALL situations discretion and discernment should be exercised. IMVCHO

[Joykins]

I'm against it.

How many studies have there been of DNA evidence years later, to show that death row inmates were not guilty of the crimes of which they were convicted?

How much does it cost the state to entertain the interminable appeals that should be the least of the due diligence necessary to deprive a person of his or her life? Is it not cheaper and just as effective to keep that person out of society? If Levitical Law is our guide for secular justice, why are most Christians not out there literally picking up stones to throw at disobedient children and adulterers?

If by killing a sinner we are sending them to hell, would it not be better to let them live their life (even in prison) in the hopes that they would ccome to Christ.

[Diakoneo]

kill, Kill, KIll, KILl, KILL!

Saith the Christians

[TwinCrier]

Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

[ZiSunka]

I oppose the death penalty for the same reason I oppose abortion and euthanasia. Human beings are not disposable.

We can't simply get rid of people we don't want anymore.

Executions, abortion and euthanasia all strengthen the growing idea that only those who are economically productive should be considered worthy of life. They cheapen all our lives by showing the world that we believe humans are disposable. :(

[Richard]

kill, Kill, KIll, KILl, KILL!

Saith the Christians

I really hope you are only joking. That is such a barbaric way to say it. What if someones family member died had a death sentence , and were excuted this way. Would you feel the least bit sorry? That's harsh.

Sorry All for the Ramble ;)

[Diakoneo]

I really hope you are only joking. That is such a barbaric way to say it. What if someones family member died had a death sentence , and were excuted this way. Would you feel the least bit sorry? That's harsh.

Sorry All for the Ramble ;)

Yeah that's the point.

[Strongcuppajoe]

I'm for the death penalty because at the very start God says he's for it in the case someone murders another person.

(Genesis 9:6) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.



Good point, I also am for the death penalty.

[TwinCrier]

I really hope you are only joking. That is such a barbaric way to say it. What if someones family member died had a death sentence , and were excuted this way. Would you feel the least bit sorry? That's harsh.

Sorry All for the Ramble ;)I'm not a hypocrite, if someone in my family murders someone they are not less deserving of the death penalty because they're related to me. Facing certain death may be the only thing to make them repent. By not following God's devine plan for justice, you may be damning a soul to hell. I'll follow the bible, not my emotions.

Ezekiel 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

[ZiSunka]

That's strange, I follow the Bible and not my emotions, and I've come to exactly the opposite conclusion.

[JPPT1974]

That's strange, I follow the Bible and not my emotions, and I've come to exactly the opposite conclusion.

I follow the bible and not my instincts. The bible is always truthful & right. But I am not!

[Diane_Windsor]

So how do you justify or deny the DP? Let me throw a log on the fire to get it blazing even higher. How do you justify or deny the DP when considering II Tim 3:16?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

:scratch: what does II Tim 3:16 have to do with the DP?

As for your question-I am against the death penalty. My reasons: Exodus 20:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&verse=13&version=31&context=verse).

Diane
:wave:

[arunma]

While I agree with your conclusion, Diane, I disagree with the reasoning. Paul says in Romans 13 that the government is God's agent of wrath. Thus, if the state's law prescribes the death penalty, I don't think that execution of the penalty is prohibited by the commandment against murder.

[AvgJoe]

A life for a life, as instituted by God in Genesis 9:5-6. Numbers 35:30-34 reinforces the Genesis account and explains that the land, of any place that doesn't execute murderers, remains polluted/defiled. No atonement can be made for murder except by the blood of the murderer.

[arunma]

A life for a life, as instituted by God in Genesis 9:5-6. Numbers 35:30-34 reinforces the Genesis account and explains that the land, of any place that doesn't execute murderers, remains polluted/defiled. No atonement can be made for murder except by the blood of the murderer.

Well, I also disagree with your reasoning. As James says, if we choose to obey the Law of Moses, we must obey the entire Law. The Law also says that certain crimes are worthy of capital punishment. So why do we not execute people for such things as blasphemy and doing work on the Sabbath?

Also, while the quote from Genesis may have some merit, but Numbers 35:30-34 was prescribed specifically for Israel's theocracy, which is now defunct. In fact, verse 34 says, "for I the LORD dwell in the midst of the people of Israel." So how can we justify selective application of God's Law in secular Law? Should not the whole Law be applied?

[AvgJoe]

As for your question-I am against the death penalty. My reasons: Exodus 20:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&verse=13&version=31&context=verse).

Exodus 20:13

This commandment means not to murder another innocent human being. Three biblical exceptions to this commandment are:

The Exception of Self-Defense--Ex.22:2
-Valid because your life and that of your loved ones is threatened

The Exception of War--Num. 10:9 “the enemy that oppresseth you”
-Valid because your country is threatened/an extension of self-defense

The Exception of Capital Punishment--Gen. 9:5-6
-Valid because a life has been taken.

Where capital punishment is not practiced on murderers, the land becomes guilty of blood--Num. 35:31-34

If this commandment were talking about killing, in general, then it would be wrong to kill anything, for any reason (plants/animals for food, swat a mosquito, squish a bug, etc.).

[arunma]

So...anyone care to respond to my last post?

[seebs]

Well, let's see.

Did God kill the first murderer?

When people killed Jesus, did God kill them?

It seems to me that, if death has truly been defeated, the entire concept of the death penalty is on shaky ground.

Worse, the only options I see are killing people who have repented, and condemning people to Hell. If someone has not yet repented, there can be little, probably nothing, more important than trying to give this person time to do so. If he has, there is no particular reason to kill him.

[FreeinChrist]

Well, I also disagree with your reasoning. As James says, if we choose to obey the Law of Moses, we must obey the entire Law. The Law also says that certain crimes are worthy of capital punishment. So why do we not execute people for such things as blasphemy and doing work on the Sabbath?

Also, while the quote from Genesis may have some merit, but Numbers 35:30-34 was prescribed specifically for Israel's theocracy, which is now defunct. In fact, verse 34 says, "for I the LORD dwell in the midst of the people of Israel." So how can we justify selective application of God's Law in secular Law? Should not the whole Law be applied?

Good points.

As a Christian, I can't see using the Law to support the death penalty of today. Under the Law, we all deserve the death penalty.

I am against the death penalty, for I am convinced that among those killed, there are some who are innocents. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the death of an innocent person.

[Crazy Liz]

While I agree with your conclusion, Diane, I disagree with the reasoning. Paul says in Romans 13 that the government is God's agent of wrath. Thus, if the state's law prescribes the death penalty, I don't think that execution of the penalty is prohibited by the commandment against murder.
The traditional Anabaptist would agree with you, but hold that therefore a Christian cannot be a magistrate (judge or police officer).

[AvgJoe]

Well, I also disagree with your reasoning. As James says, if we choose to obey the Law of Moses, we must obey the entire Law. The Law also says that certain crimes are worthy of capital punishment. So why do we not execute people for such things as blasphemy and doing work on the Sabbath?

Also, while the quote from Genesis may have some merit, but Numbers 35:30-34 was prescribed specifically for Israel's theocracy, which is now defunct. In fact, verse 34 says, "for I the LORD dwell in the midst of the people of Israel." So how can we justify selective application of God's Law in secular Law? Should not the whole Law be applied?

I believe Genesis 9:5-6 was approximately 900 years before the Law of Moses existed, so thats a moot point. You can throw out Numbers 35 and you still have God's institution of capital punishment in Genesis 9.

[arunma]

I believe Genesis 9:5-6 was approximately 900 years before the Law of Moses existed, so thats a moot point. You can throw out Numbers 35 and you still have God's institution of capital punishment in Genesis 9.

Fair enough. Genesis 9:5-6 was God's covenant with Noah, so that applies to non-Israelites too. Incidentally, I'm fairly certain that this was more than 900 years before the Law, since it doesn't make sense that man could multiply so quickly in 900 years. But that's a completely unrelated comment.

Anyway, I still stand by my objection that the death penalty is too risky a proposition to be instituted. As I said, I don't object for any moral reasons, since I don't think the death penalty is ungodly. But I do think that mustn't be carried out unless a criminal's guilt can be ascertained with absolute certainty (a task that is almost impossible).

[AvgJoe]

Fair enough. Genesis 9:5-6 was God's covenant with Noah, so that applies to non-Israelites too. Incidentally, I'm fairly certain that this was more than 900 years before the Law, since it doesn't make sense that man could multiply so quickly in 900 years. But that's a completely unrelated comment.

Anyway, I still stand by my objection that the death penalty is too risky a proposition to be instituted. As I said, I don't object for any moral reasons, since I don't think the death penalty is ungodly. But I do think that mustn't be carried out unless a criminal's guilt can be ascertained with absolute certainty (a task that is almost impossible).

I quickly consulted a online Bible timeline for the 900 years, so it could easily be incorrect.

Even though we are on opposites sides of the fence, we are not that far apart, because, for the most part, I agree with you. Where you are against it because of the possibility of error, I am not against it just because of the possibility of error. We're God's creation. We make mistakes in everything we do. Knowing this, God instituted capital punishment. God knows what He is doing and I will follow His plan, regardless of what I may think about them.

That last sentence is not an easy task, sometimes, ok, a lot of the time. If I could follow that, in every aspect of my life, I would be a much better person.

God bless!

[seebs]

<duplicate post>

[seebs]

God instituted many things, not all of them are still in place post-Resurrection.

[jcright]

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

:scratch: what does II Tim 3:16 have to do with the DP?

As for your question-I am against the death penalty. My reasons: Exodus 20:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&verse=13&version=31&context=verse).

Diane
:wave:

Well, there seem to be two sentiments. The first is the command to love and the second is the example in the OT. If it was okay in the OT to sentence someone to death, then why not now? So, if all scripture is useful...then which do we go by? Do we implement DP or do we not do it for the sake of love?

Hope that clarifies why I put that there.

[TwinCrier]

...Did God kill the first murderer?....If you mean Cain, no, and look what happened. God had to wipe out almost the whole population of the entire planet a short time later.
For anyone who uses Exodus 20 to support their hold against the DP, please, read chapter 21.

http://av1611.faithweb.com/whats_new.html

[Ragamuffins]

There was a story once about a man who came home from a long flight to find a man brutally raping his wife. He tried to stop the man, but the man attacked him, knocking him down the stairs, breaking his back. The criminal went back to raping the wife until she died.

He got a very good look at the man and there was no problem identifying the man through mug shots. A warrant was issued and within weeks the man was held for trial. The man had numerous run ins with the law, including a history of violent rapes that could never be proven.

With the testimony of the husband pretty much sealed the case for the prosectuters office, and he was found guilty. Before the sentencing the judge asked the husband if he had any words for the court to help in their decision on what to do with the man.

Slowly he turned his head, and looked at the man who destroyed the one he loved. "I want to tell you that I hate you and I wish you would die, but I cannot do this. My Lord tells me that I am to love my enemies, so in response to his request I wish to die in your place. I wish to pay the penalty for what you did."

The court room gasped and the man was told under no certain terms could his request be met. But the convict got the message anyway.

Christ did the same thing for us. He took the penalty of all our sins. I dunno, in his footsteps I guess.

[ZiSunka]

There was a story once about a man who came home from a long flight to find a man brutally raping his wife. He tried to stop the man, but the man attacked him, knocking him down the stairs, breaking his back. The criminal went back to raping the wife until she died.

He got a very good look at the man and there was no problem identifying the man through mug shots. A warrant was issued and within weeks the man was held for trial. The man had numerous run ins with the law, including a history of violent rapes that could never be proven.

With the testimony of the husband pretty much sealed the case for the prosectuters office, and he was found guilty. Before the sentencing the judge asked the husband if he had any words for the court to help in their decision on what to do with the man.

Slowly he turned his head, and looked at the man who destroyed the one he loved. "I want to tell you that I hate you and I wish you would die, but I cannot do this. My Lord tells me that I am to love my enemies, so in response to his request I wish to die in your place. I wish to pay the penalty for what you did."

The court room gasped and the man was told under no certain terms could his request be met. But the convict got the message anyway.

Christ did the same thing for us. He took the penalty of all our sins. I dunno, in his footsteps I guess.

:amen: Christianity is not about condemning the guilty, it's about loving the unforgivable. If it were about condemning the guilty, we would all be condemned already.

I'm glad God chose to provide a way for us to be forgiven and not just a way for us to be punished.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever shall believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that through him, we might be saved. John 3:16 & 17

[seebs]

If you mean Cain, no, and look what happened. God had to wipe out almost the whole population of the entire planet a short time later.

This is the post hoc fallacy at its finest.

[Snow Angel]

No"Look at all the innocent men they have let out of prison,since they have been doing DNA Testing: