Adult or child

[HeHasHelpedMe]

We had 4 kids kill a delivery man for 30 dollars. The ages of 14, 15, 15, 17. Do you think they should be tried as an adult or not. They had him deliver to an a banded house, where they killed him. Stole 30 dollars and when bought drugs and a bottle of whiskey. Then went to a party. Let me know what you think should happen in this.

[Willo]

pre meditated murder, they need to be tried as adults, as there was motive, and planning. This wasn't a random kill for quick cash.

[arunma]

Is this a hypothetical scenario, or a real murder case?

[cenimo]

Adult.

[Stormy]

17 adult

14, and 15 children

[HeHasHelpedMe]

This is happened in KCMO last week. They said it was for the money. They thought that he would of had more money on him. They all had a previous record but one 15 year old

[arunma]

This is happened in KCMO last week. They said it was for the money. They thought that he would of had more money on him. They all had a previous record but one 15 year old

Wow, this is truly dispicable. What possible purpose could be served by killing a random delivery man? I'm tempted to say that they should all be tried as adults, so that the death penalty can be sought. But that's probably motivated more by my disdain for people who commit such senseless crimes. I don't even favor the death penalty.

[Flynmonkie]

My first thoughts were where are the parents! Every single one of these kids had records. Personally I am sick and tired of hearing these situations over and over again, and it seems to get worse. I believe sometimes the parents should have some accountability at times. There are always bad seeds. But four children all with priors... I would not be surprised at the conditions of living for these children that led up to this way of thinking...

I remember someone once said, if your raised thinking something is true, told and taught over and over all your life - you will believe it to be so – even forgoing all common sense…

It makes you wonder how people are raised…

It is truly sad...

I do believe in consequences for actions. I do not believe in the death penalty at all!! I believe it is far worse to be trapped in a cell with no connection to the outside world for the rest of life, than to end it. Where is the punishment in that?

[aReformedPatriot]

We had 4 kids kill a delivery man for 30 dollars. The ages of 14, 15, 15, 17. Do you think they should be tried as an adult or not. They had him deliver to an a banded house, where they killed him. Stole 30 dollars and when bought drugs and a bottle of whiskey. Then went to a party. Let me know what you think should happen in this.

The 14 year old no, the 15 yr olds maybe. Depends, I did some things when I was 14 or 15 whose ramifications I really did not understand. On the other hand killing someone is pretty blatant, I think they should sit down with someone to discuss some things.

The 17 year old, yea lock him up as an adult. He should know better and most likely was the greater influence over the younger ones.

[fairyshyone]

adults

[Richard]

I don't believe in the death sentence. Locking all of them up for life would be a much worse sentence then killing them.

[jcright]

They should all be tried as adults. We need to quick passing the buck on blame. These people need to face the consequences of their actions. If we did that more often, maybe, just maybe, we'd see a decline in crime.

[mesue]

We had 4 kids kill a delivery man for 30 dollars. The ages of 14, 15, 15, 17. Do you think they should be tried as an adult or not. They had him deliver to an a banded house, where they killed him. Stole 30 dollars and when bought drugs and a bottle of whiskey. Then went to a party. Let me know what you think should happen in this.
That's a hard one to answer. There are some kids that are very mature for 14, and other's that are still just babies themselves.
I do believe in the death penalty, God does too (and for far more than we "civilized" people would condemn unto death for.) To be else wise is to say that God doesn't know what He's doing, or saying, or that He didn't mean what He said. I believe God is wiser than man, and means what He says.
But I digressed.
I think it should be on an individual basis. I have a hard time thinking that ALL 4 were equally involved.
The death penalty is so expensive, it is cheaper to house the inmates for life than to pay for all the appeals they generate.

[ZiSunka]

We had 4 kids kill a delivery man for 30 dollars. The ages of 14, 15, 15, 17. Do you think they should be tried as an adult or not. They had him deliver to an a banded house, where they killed him. Stole 30 dollars and when bought drugs and a bottle of whiskey. Then went to a party. Let me know what you think should happen in this.

No, I don't think children should be tried as adults, but I do think their parents should be. If these kids killed in such a meaningless and brutal way, it means they aren't getting parented the way they should be. Their parents had/have the responsibility to all of society to teach them how to live in this world morally and without harm to others. It's their sin, too, that this man died such a heinous and pointless death. At the very least, they should have know where their kids were and what they were doing. In Ohio, not knowing the whereabouts of your minor children is considered neglect. They ought to be tried as adults in the total neglect of their children.

But the children should be tried as children. Children cannot be held as accountable as adults, that's why the juvenile system was instituted in the first place.

If anyone should be punished as adults, it has to be the parents, who should have parented their children better.

[£amb]

We had 4 kids kill a delivery man for 30 dollars. The ages of 14, 15, 15, 17. Do you think they should be tried as an adult or not. They had him deliver to an a banded house, where they killed him. Stole 30 dollars and when bought drugs and a bottle of whiskey. Then went to a party. Let me know what you think should happen in this.


The 17yr. old should be tried as an adult. Who was the "ring" leader? If it's the 17yr. old, then it's got me concerned that he/she can have that much influence over the others to commit such a crime. I was on a jury several years ago where we had to decide the fate of a 16yr. old. He had several minors shoot at a crowd under his command. We had him sentenced because of the fact that he may not of been the one holding the gun, but he that much mind control over these children. We knew he needed to be off the street and away from other minors.

[lawtonfogle]

should they be given a slap on the wrist, no, should they be tried as adults, no. The fact stands that they did not have the freedom of an adult, nomatter how close, and so how can you charge them of being an adult. If they were being mature enough to be considered an adult, then why do you only find that out in the case of crime. What about those mature enough to enjoy adult privaleges that minors cannot have. If you say they are adults, then you turn around and say that the 17 year old who had sex with a 18 was not an adult, and so the 18 year old committed rape (no matter what type) then you are being a hypocrit. Now am I saying that it is right for such things to happen, no, but you should hold the standard to judge the same.

If you want to be (you refering to the law system and those involved in it) hypocrit, go ahead, but don't expect any more respect from me then what I give my cat. Less maybe.

[arunma]

No, I don't think children should be tried as adults, but I do think their parents should be. If these kids killed in such a meaningless and brutal way, it means they aren't getting parented the way they should be. Their parents had/have the responsibility to all of society to teach them how to live in this world morally and without harm to others. It's their sin, too, that this man died such a heinous and pointless death. At the very least, they should have know where their kids were and what they were doing. In Ohio, not knowing the whereabouts of your minor children is considered neglect. They ought to be tried as adults in the total neglect of their children.

But the children should be tried as children. Children cannot be held as accountable as adults, that's why the juvenile system was instituted in the first place.

If anyone should be punished as adults, it has to be the parents, who should have parented their children better.

Trying parents for the crimes of their children? Sounds like a novel idea. I can't say I disagree.

[SonOfThunder]

How very sad that children will go to such lengths for drugs and alcohol.
A sign of end times for certain.

No matter what the outcome from the law here, several familes now suffer as a result and have to live out their days with the results of sin.

The deceased's family suffer the loss and the lack of future trust.
The parents suffer the failure of parenting and the stigma as it comes to light to their families and neighbours and friends, also the separation of them and their children.
The ones involved now have to face their punishment and live with the guilt and shame and loss of freedom, possibly thier lives.

It is not up to me to judge, so I won't. I'm just so very very sorry.

James

[lawtonfogle]

should the parents be charged, if we can prove it was there fault. Maybe they were on an addictive drugs, and really wanted (or needed, becuase some addictions can cuase schock if not kept up) the drugs. Could you blame the parent, for I know it is possible to hide things from parents. If they did not know, they deffinitly should not be charged, but in the end, can you cause a parent anymore pain than what is cuased by knowing your kid did this. It makes them think they failed so badly if you did charge, they may have not will to defend themselves.

[Stormy]

No, I don't think children should be tried as adults, but I do think their parents should be. If these kids killed in such a meaningless and brutal way, it means they aren't getting parented the way they should be. Their parents had/have the responsibility to all of society to teach them how to live in this world morally and without harm to others. It's their sin, too, that this man died such a heinous and pointless death. At the very least, they should have know where their kids were and what they were doing. In Ohio, not knowing the whereabouts of your minor children is considered neglect. They ought to be tried as adults in the total neglect of their children.

But the children should be tried as children. Children cannot be held as accountable as adults, that's why the juvenile system was instituted in the first place.

If anyone should be punished as adults, it has to be the parents, who should have parented their children better.

Please open your heart to the possibility that a parent could love a child, and raise him with morals, trying to instill in him love, and respect for others....and yet.... He could go wrong.

We only have so much influence over others. Children are individuals. They are not putty that we can mold. Even the presence of Jesus did not stop Judas.

Please understand that your words could hurt a mother, and/or a father, who have "lost" their child to to this world. Please don't add to their grief. :sigh:

[Richard]

Please open your heart to the possibility that a parent could love a child, and raise him with morals, trying to instill in him love, and respect for others....and yet.... He could go wrong.

We only have so much influence over others. Children are individuals. They are not putty that we can mold. Even the presence of Jesus did not stop Judas.

Please understand that your words could hurt a mother, and/or a father, who have "lost" their child to to this world. Please don't add to their grief. :sigh:

Good Point.

[mesue]

Trying parents for the crimes of their children? Sounds like a novel idea. I can't say I disagree.
I can, and I have to. As a very rebelious 14 year old, I knew full well what I was doing, and I did it anyway. I didn't, and don't, blame my parents for my actions.
If I had killed somebody, that would have been MY fault. Stealing from people was my fault, and that is a sin. So would it be should I have killed as well.

[Flynmonkie]

Absolutely! Accountability is key here. The children/young adults for their actions but in this particular situation these "children" have priors (some several!)

Just thinking a bit here – I know you hate it when I do that but…..

I am not sure about the rest of you all, but when I see a situation like this - I first feel horrible for the whole thing. The second is "what makes people do these things?. Children "learn" somewhere. And I have seen it with my own two eyes that there are children that are simply incorrigible. (been involved with the legal aspects of DYS and DSS for many years several relatives work in this field including CASA) Bottom line is?
Parents. Very rarely do you see a parent that is totally involved with a child in good relationship - or attempt to be- with that child in this sort of trouble.
Minor situations of course, misdemeanors etc..
But murder, felonies etc.. I just bet you would be surprised. Those children DID learn it from somewhere. Be it no protection/security from the parent, or parents that just don't care.

But I look even beyond that- WHY...? Because it is a vicious cycle of generations of beating down- it is really that simple. This is why it is sad. Many of these kids never had a chance - and I mean never. They don't have role models. And churches really don't like to "deal" with this element. Or they don't want them in "their" churches. Makes me wonder if those parents truly could ever understand a helping hand or people whom really care. To the majority of these people - the world shows them that this does not exist.

One of the hardest things to do is to view others with Gods eyes. And these people, children are potentially Gods. What in the world happened to them in their life to make them feel this way, or be this way? Sure I believe that a judicial system should be set up, a system of accountability. Problem is, there is no real rehabilitation in this. In fact, most of these homes these children just have it even worse - being exposed to other abused, and neglected children.

Seems to me, that institution reform teaching worthiness to just live life. Self worth, self esteem, standing up for what is right and sticking to it and not being afraid. Showing these people there IS another side to life – a side they have yet to experience. Now I know this will not always work in every situation. But you would be surprised just how much it would! I believe that is why we are to share a Christ like attitude. Show love - it is contagious!

How can you rehabilitate without love -or isn't this what the Bible teaches? Is murdering the murderer a real solution? Or is it the world’s solution? The MOST important thing to God is salvation (via glorification). How is it glorifying to God if our first answer, without all the facts is - death? Wonder what we would think if God said that to us in the first place. "Well, I guess you all are sinners, so I will just scrap ya - and start anew"?!?! :eek: He didn't. Why? Because it is called MERCY. I mean really, could you ever imagine heading through life without ever knowing unconditional love? I think assessing this situation starting with Mercy would be the first real step in spiritual discernment. IMHO

[TwinCrier]

Trying parents for the crimes of their children? Sounds like a novel idea. I can't say I disagree.No way! Why should I be fined or jailed because one of my kids turn bad seed? I think of what I did as a kid and if I had ever gotten caught.... well, I don't think my parents would deserve anything for what I did. People need to be accountable for their own sin. What's next, giving parents spankings because their baby bit another child at daycare? Unless you can prove the parents took part in the crime or knowingly aided the kids in some way, forget it.

[ZiSunka]

Please open your heart to the possibility that a parent could love a child, and raise him with morals, trying to instill in him love, and respect for others....and yet.... He could go wrong.


A good parent knows where his child is and what the kid is doing at all times. That is the role of the parent, to diligently look after the child and raise him/her to responsible adulthood. The child is not there to entertain the parent, or to give the parent love. The child doesn't exist to give anything to the parent, the parent exists to give their all to their child.

The parents who didn't look to the best interest of the child by knowing their whereabouts and teaching them right from wrong is a neglectful parent and should answer to the community and society for their negligence. Those parents owe us all for their failure to raise their children with respect for the lives of others. That pizza guy could have been any of us, and it would be wrong to let the parents off scott free.

[ZiSunka]

No way! Why should I be fined or jailed because one of my kids turn bad seed? I think of what I did as a kid and if I had ever gotten caught.... well, I don't think my parents would deserve anything for what I did. People need to be accountable for their own sin. What's next, giving parents spankings because their baby bit another child at daycare? Unless you can prove the parents took part in the crime or knowingly aided the kids in some way, forget it.

I've know tens of thousands of kids over my lifetime and I've never seen one turn bad seed. I've seen them grow up without love or a moral foundation and then commit crimes as a reaction to that. I've seen them grow up without any moral foundation at all and go on to commit crimes because they think it's okay. I've seen parents teach children to commit crimes because the parents themselves are warped. I've seen kids slowly decline due to secret neglect or abuse. I've seen them be spoiled rotten and commit crimes because they think they are entitled to get whatever they want. I've even seen them make stupid mistakes that hurt someone.

But it never happens that a happy, well-adjusted, well-loved child just turns bad. There is always a foundation for bad behavior, whether it is emotional, familial, medical or social. Children who commit murder for drugs have problems that their parents at the very least, should have noticed and worked to fix. That is the role of the parent.

[TwinCrier]

Well, I didn't come from an underproviledged or broken home and I used to sneak out of my room at night, shoplift and , well, other things that I knew my parents didn't approve of, but then there is free will. I was a happy well adjust child, but I was bad, really bad, until about age 19. My parents to this day don't know most of what I did, simply because I never got caught. Unfortunately, we are raising kids to believe just that.... that they aren't responsible for their actions, it's someone elses fault for giving them the opportunity to do wrong. If I had been abused or something I suppose I could blame that, but I perfer to admit I was wrong.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

[JPPT1974]

Please open your heart to the possibility that a parent could love a child, and raise him with morals, trying to instill in him love, and respect for others....and yet.... He could go wrong.

We only have so much influence over others. Children are individuals. They are not putty that we can mold. Even the presence of Jesus did not stop Judas.

Please understand that your words could hurt a mother, and/or a father, who have "lost" their child to to this world. Please don't add to their grief. :sigh:

The phrase sticks & stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me. But your words can hurt people as wounds to their hearts. That may never heal for a long, long time. Or never, ever at all. We all need to raise our children with morals and respect for others. If they use bad words, it may not hurt them immadately. But in the long run, will come back and bite them in the rear. Ouch! :sigh:

[lawtonfogle]

Novel Idea I had. (it would work with my accent.)

How about we forgive them, not say release them, but forgive them, and hold them only to protect others.

That is in the Bible, right.

[ZiSunka]

I can, and I have to. As a very rebelious 14 year old, I knew full well what I was doing, and I did it anyway. I didn't, and don't, blame my parents for my actions.
If I had killed somebody, that would have been MY fault. Stealing from people was my fault, and that is a sin. So would it be should I have killed as well.

But if you knew your actions would hurt your parents and destroy your family, you wouldn't have done them, would you? Or at least you would have thought twice about doing them.

When I was in high school, a law was passed in my state to hold the parents accountable for their teenagers driving drunk. The parents not only would have to pay for any damage, they could do time in jail for the actions of their children because if the kids were getting behind the wheel drunk, it meant their parents weren't properly supervising their kids. In my school, kids sobered up and stopped getting drunk because they knew if they got in trouble, so would their parents. Now, some kids kept getting drunk, but once one parent got a $5000 fine and 1000 hours community service, it really struck home that our parents could suffer and we didn't touch liquor again until we were in college.

Punishing the parents is the right thing to do because the parents are legally responsible to know what their children are doing at all times. These parenst neglected that responsibility with tragic and horrible consequences and they deserve to answer to society for that neglect.

The children should be held responsible for the murders, but the parents should be held responsible for the neglect.

The murder of one citizen damages the people of the whole state because one death diminishes the well-being of the community. If parents were punished alongside their criminal children, there would be more parental supervision and less juvenile crime.

[lawtonfogle]

ah, anyone ever read the How good people make tough choices. This definitly is a justice versus love situation. Which one do you want it to be, and if you were the parents, what would you want.

No matter what judgment the state passes, the question you should answer is can you forgive them, now, most here were not affected, so lets say it was your spouse, or your kids, or for those of us to young to have either, the person you love the most. Now ask yourself, could you forgive the kids for what they did. Even if justice is still done to them, will you show them love. I have asked this to myself, and say yes, becuase if you love someone, you must be able to show love and forgiveness to who so ever hurts the one you love, and direct your hate, for love for someone must have hate towards what hurts that person, towards not the person who hurt, but the sin, or better yet, what causes the sin. Not just satan, but alcohol and drugs, for they were also a part of this.

Will you forgive them.

[grrltoangl]

wether it was random or not they all knew what they were doing. im sure by there age they new it was wrong to kill.pre meditated murder, they need to be tried as adults, as there was motive, and planning. This wasn't a random kill for quick cash.

[JPPT1974]

wether it was random or not they all knew what they were doing. im sure by there age they new it was wrong to kill.

Murder is murder and it's a sin. Against the law and against the laws of God.

[ZiSunka]

Well, I didn't come from an underproviledged or broken home and I used to sneak out of my room at night, shoplift and , well, other things that I knew my parents didn't approve of, but then there is free will. I was a happy well adjust child, but I was bad, really bad, until about age 19. My parents to this day don't know most of what I did, simply because I never got caught. Unfortunately, we are raising kids to believe just that.... that they aren't responsible for their actions, it's someone elses fault for giving them the opportunity to do wrong. If I had been abused or something I suppose I could blame that, but I perfer to admit I was wrong.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

There's a huge difference between sneaking out and shopplifting and murdering someone, don't you see?

And I'm not saying the parent's should be tried for the kid's crimes, they should be tried for their own crime of neglecting the well-being of their own children.

[ZiSunka]

Will you forgive them. No, I'm sorry, but they can't just walk away from this unpunished. They must pay the due debt they owe society. Murder makes a debt against the people and against the state according to our laws and Jesus didn't die for that debt, only the debt owed to the Father. Anyone who sins against God can be forgiven according to God's will, but anyone who also sins against mankind according to our laws must still pay the debt owed under those laws.

[AvgJoe]

1st impression...try them as adults

[lawtonfogle]

No, I'm sorry, but they can't just walk away from this unpunished. They must pay the due debt they owe society. Murder makes a debt against the people and against the state according to our laws and Jesus didn't die for that debt, only the debt owed to the Father. Anyone who sins against God can be forgiven according to God's will, but anyone who also sins against mankind according to our laws must still pay the debt owed under those laws.

must not read the entire thing, for I said to hold them to protect others. but in the Lord's prayers

[ZiSunka]

But they don't need my personal forgiveness. They can only be forgiven by those they have hurt most directly, the family and friends of the man they killed and the people of the community where they lived. And as far as I know, they haven't even asked for anyone's forgiveness. It's wrong to forgive before the person seeks forgiveness because forgiving too soon allows them to feel they don't have anything to repent of.

[lawtonfogle]

if you read, I was putting in the, what if this happened to you, or the, what if something like this happened to you, in question, that is where my last question, would you forgive them?