Can we drink alcohol?

[aggie03]

This is a general question and it is open to all people. There is another question in this forum that is a restricted question.

Is it sinful drink alcohol? I will warn you now that I am going to be supporting the notion that it is sinful. I am trying to learn more about the subject and I do better if I pick a side and argue for it. Thank you for all of your help.

[Forest]

1 Timothy 3:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=61&chapter=3&verse=8&version=9&context=verse)
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;


That scripture appears to say that it is ok for deacons as long as it is not too much. Isn't excess the problem...


1 Corinthians 6:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=6&verse=10&version=9&context=verse)
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=5&verse=18&version=9&context=verse)
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

[lismore]

This is a general question and it is open to all people. There is another question in this forum that is a restricted question.

Is it sinful drink alcohol? I will warn you now that I am going to be supporting the notion that it is sinful. I am trying to learn more about the subject and I do better if I pick a side and argue for it. Thank you for all of your help.



Genesis 14:18 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Genesis 14:18)
Then Melchizedek king of Salem [ That is, Jerusalem ] brought out bread and wine.

Matthew 26:29 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Matthew 26:29)
I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."


1 Timothy 5:23 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=1 Timothy 5:23)
Stop drinking only water, and drink a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

John 2

7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.


8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."

They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." 11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.




Numbers 15:5 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Numbers 15:5)
With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.

Numbers 18:12 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Numbers 18:12)
"I give you all the finest olive oil and all the finest new wine and grain they give the LORD as the firstfruits of their harvest.

Deuteronomy 14:23 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Deuteronomy 14:23)
Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

Deuteronomy 33:28 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Deuteronomy 33:28)
So Israel will live in safety alone; Jacob's spring is secure in a land of grain and new wine, where the heavens drop dew.
1 Samuel 16:20 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=1 Samuel 16:20)
So Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread, a skin of wine and a young goat and sent them with his son David to Saul.

2 Samuel 16:2 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=2 Samuel 16:2)
The king asked Ziba, "Why have you brought these?" Ziba answered, "The donkeys are for the king's household to ride on, the bread and fruit are for the men to eat, and the wine is to refresh those exhausted in the desert.

Ezra 6:9 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Ezra 6:9) http://www.ibs.org/images/indent.gif Read this Chapter (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Ezra 6)
Whatever is needed—young bulls, rams, male lambs for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, and wheat, salt, wine and oil, as requested by the priests in Jerusalem—must be given them daily without fail,

Nehemiah 13:12 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Nehemiah 13:12) http://www.ibs.org/images/indent.gif Read this Chapter (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Nehemiah 13)
All Judah brought the tithes of grain, new wine and oil into the storerooms.

Song of Solomon 1:2 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Song of Solomon 1:2)
Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth— for your love is more delightful than wine.
Song of Solomon 8:2 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Song of Solomon 8:2)
I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house— she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink, the nectar of my pomegranates.
Jeremiah 31:12 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Jeremiah 31:12) http://www.ibs.org/images/indent.gif Read this Chapter (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Jeremiah 31)
They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD— the grain, the new wine and the oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.

Ezekiel 44:21 NIV (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Ezekiel 44:21) http://www.ibs.org/images/indent.gif Read this Chapter (http://www.ibs.org/niv/passagesearch.php?passage_request=Ezekiel 44)
No priest is to drink wine when he enters the inner court.

[SNPete]

This is a general question and it is open to all people. There is another question in this forum that is a restricted question.

Is it sinful drink alcohol? I will warn you now that I am going to be supporting the notion that it is sinful. I am trying to learn more about the subject and I do better if I pick a side and argue for it. Thank you for all of your help.
We already have a good number of scripture cites to which I will add:



PS 104:15 where it says God made wine that makes glad the heart of man. In John chapter 2 we see Jesus providing gallons of high quality wine for a wedding. It is clear that Jesus and the disciples drank wine. What I see over and over is that drinking alcohol is not a sin. Getting drunk is a sin.



One principle is that there are some people, who should not drink for various reasons. I believe that each person should examine themselves before God and ask if is OK to drink. However, we should not use our freedom in Christ to cause others to stumble.

[aggie03]

One principle is that there are some people, who should not drink for various reasons. I believe that each person should examine their heart before God and ask if is OK to drink. However, we should not use our freedom in Christ to cause others to stumble.

I will address some of the Scriptures that have been mentioned in subsequent posts - but I read through this and had to address it immediately. I would firstly like to say thank you to everyone for posting in this thread :) I look forward to a rewarding study of God's word with all of you.

I disagree with this attitude though, that we can look in our hearts and find the right answer. That's just not what the Scriptures teach. In fact, they say the exact opposite:

Proverbs 14:12 ASV

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

This is so important that this particular proverb occurs again two chapters later word for word. I cannot look into my heart for the answer, but I must look into the word of God. It is the word of God that is the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path (Paslm 119:105). It is the word of God that shows us the path that we ought to take and is capable of making our pathways straight - not our hearts.

It may be that you meant something different than how I have understood you, but I cannot agree that we are able to look inside out hearts and find out what God wants. The Bible would have been much, much shorter if that were the case ;)

[Theophorus]

[font=Arial]

I will address some of the Scriptures that have been mentioned in subsequent posts - but I read through this and had to address it immediately. I would firstly like to say thank you to everyone for posting in this thread :) I look forward to a rewarding study of God's word with all of you.

I disagree with this attitude though, that we can look in our hearts and find the right answer. That's just not what the Scriptures teach. In fact, they say the exact opposite:

[size=3]Proverbs 14:12 ASV

[color=navy]There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

This is so important that this particular proverb occurs again two chapters later word for word. I cannot look into my heart for the answer, but I must look into the word of God. It is the word of God that is the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path (Paslm 119:105). It is the word of God that shows us the path that we ought to take and is capable of making our pathways straight - not our hearts.

It may be that you meant something different than how I have understood you, but I cannot agree that we are able to look inside out hearts and find out what God wants. The Bible would have been much, much shorter if that were the case ;)


I agree, and disagree. The conscience is given for our benefit. Emotions, on the other hand, are not to be trusted. There is a difference, though one may intrude on the other. The word of God tells us that intoxication is the sin.

[Forest]

1 Timothy 5:23, posted by lismore seems the most clear to me.

[xristos.anesti]

1 Timothy 5:23, posted by lismore seems the most clear to me.

And, may I suggest Red one!!

^_^



I don't drink. Some days though, I have couple of beers (good football game or criket)... or when with mates... but as everything else... if you can not say no to it... you have a problem.

Everything in moderation...

If it becomes your god... could be coca cola or anything else... it will kill you... one day.

[lismore]

What I see over and over is that drinking alcohol is not a sin. Getting drunk is a sin.



:thumbsup:

You're a very wise person.

:clap:

[SNPete]

[font=Arial]


I disagree with this attitude though, that we can look in our hearts and find the right answer. That's just not what the Scriptures teach. In fact, they say the exact opposite:

[size=3]Proverbs 14:12 ASV

[color=navy]There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

This is so important that this particular proverb occurs again two chapters later word for word. I cannot look into my heart for the answer, but I must look into the word of God. It is the word of God that is the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path (Paslm 119:105). It is the word of God that shows us the path that we ought to take and is capable of making our pathways straight - not our hearts.

It may be that you meant something different than how I have understood you, but I cannot agree that we are able to look inside out hearts and find out what God wants. The Bible would have been much, much shorter if that were the case ;)
You are right. I realize the use of the word heart was a poor choice. I probably should have said that we should examine ourselves before God or something to that effect.

[aggie03]

I agree, and disagree. The conscience is given for our benefit. Emotions, on the other hand, are not to be trusted. There is a difference, though one may intrude on the other. The word of God tells us that intoxication is the sin.

Well, I'm not sure that either one should be trusted completely. Paul made it pretty clear that he had a clear conscience before God but that he did not expect to be justified because of that. We should always look to the word of God and see what God has said, regardless of our conscience, because it might be wrong.

Emotions also aren't always a bad thing, but I imagine that you are guarding against those who use their emotions as a guide to their religious decisions?

I've been doing a great deal of reading and will start posting on some of the verses shortly. Thank you again, everyone, for you posts. :)

[Silent Enigma]

here's one


Deut 14:24-26

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
KJV

[AutumnAnne]

I have to say aggie- that whether I agree with you or not.... I like your posts. You have made me think about alot of things lately.

[WesWoodell]

Drinking alcohol is sinful for some, and not for others. :)

[Sabertooth]

... The word of God tells us that intoxication is the sin.

That would be REPEPEATED intoxication. Jesus presented his wine AFTER the wedding guests were already intoxicated.

"Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

Proverbs 31:4-7 says,

"It is not for kings, O Lemuel-- not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more," suggesting that SOME intoxication is okay.

[Forest]

That would be REPEPEATED intoxication. Jesus presented his wine AFTER the wedding guests were already intoxicated.

If that's the case, how many times is it ok to be intoxicated?

[Sabertooth]

If that's the case, how many times is it ok to be intoxicated?

I'm sure I don't know. For me, being drunk, of itself, seems like a real waste of time, but a little alcohol is about the only thing that works for me as a night-time cough suppressant when I have a cold. I don't mind the buzz, if it's doing something practical. Codeine has a similar effect. Not enough to poison myself, but enough to relax my cough. Also, it's an edible antiseptic.

I'm not trying to make a case for drunkenness or alcoholism, but those two scriptures appear to refute a blanket statement about intoxication.

[SEA89]

like i always say ''if you are not sure if it's a sin or not just don't do it.''

[xristos.anesti]

like i always say ''if you are not sure if it's a sin or not just don't do it.''

That works well.

[AJB4]

I believe any argument against moderate use of alcohol can be debunked by the fact that opposition of the moderate use of alcohol came not until the 19th century Temperance Movement.

[holo]

We can drink whatever we want.

[barrykind]

Many abuse alcohol here in the States.

My mother a stauch Southern Baptist, who just received a 50 year service plaque the other day, belives it would be a sin to drink any alcohol. Now this excludes NyQ_L and the like which use to be as high as 22% alcohol content.

She thinks the wine that Jesus made was grape juice non - alcoholic. Sad. I love her so.

Bew not DRUNK with wine Paul states, werein IS EXCESS.
Cant get drunk on grape juice to my knowledge.

But be filled with the Spirit he states.

Why; drunkenness, whether alcohol, valums, zanex, lortabs, vics what ever is in excess it opens our minds to be used of Satan. Am i saying is sinful to drink, or not to drink, or use a prescribed med...NO

Like the sister above stated, one must listen to God and receive direction. All things are lawful, but not all things are hepful, i will NOT cause my brother to stumble.

NOT TO COME UNDER THE POWER of any.

My Sister believes she cannot ever drink a drop of alcohol again, and knowing her she should prob never/.

I was a drunk, sot (use to be called) before the Lord saved me. Many years a drunkard, the Lord saved me and i drank no alcohol for over 15 years, was i recovering alcoholic..no

I was a set free drunk, not under the bondage of such...have i drank after the 15 years..yes a little.

Have i drank any alcohol in the last 2-3 4-5- years no,
why MOstly because of what the stigma is surrounding it. NOt to offend those to whom i minister. Not to abstain from sin, i was set free and he that is set free by Yahoshua (Jesus) is free indeed.

Do not go tell everyone Brother Barry says its ok to turn up the bottles.. Some should never partake again. Listen the the word of God, and let the Holy Spirit Guide you. To say that anyone who drinks is sinning is ABSURD, for the Lord Himself drank wine , Yes alcoholic wine.

So be careful with the accusing finger, do all to edify the Body of Christ and earnestly contend for the faith.

in love
barry your fellow bondservant

[alaskacajun]

Many abuse alcohol here in the States.

My mother a stauch Southern Baptist, who just received a 50 year service plaque the other day, belives it would be a sin to drink any alcohol. Now this excludes NyQ_L and the like which use to be as high as 22% alcohol content.

She thinks the wine that Jesus made was grape juice non - alcoholic. Sad. I love her so.

Bew not DRUNK with wine Paul states, werein IS EXCESS.
Cant get drunk on grape juice to my knowledge.

But be filled with the Spirit he states.

Why; drunkenness, whether alcohol, valums, zanex, lortabs, vics what ever is in excess it opens our minds to be used of Satan. Am i saying is sinful to drink, or not to drink, or use a prescribed med...NO

Like the sister above stated, one must listen to God and receive direction. All things are lawful, but not all things are hepful, i will NOT cause my brother to stumble.

NOT TO COME UNDER THE POWER of any.

My Sister believes she cannot ever drink a drop of alcohol again, and knowing her she should prob never/.

I was a drunk, sot (use to be called) before the Lord saved me. Many years a drunkard, the Lord saved me and i drank no alcohol for over 15 years, was i recovering alcoholic..no

I was a set free drunk, not under the bondage of such...have i drank after the 15 years..yes a little.

Have i drank any alcohol in the last 2-3 4-5- years no,
why MOstly because of what the stigma is surrounding it. NOt to offend those to whom i minister. Not to abstain from sin, i was set free and he that is set free by Yahoshua (Jesus) is free indeed.

Do not go tell everyone Brother Barry says its ok to turn up the bottles.. Some should never partake again. Listen the the word of God, and let the Holy Spirit Guide you. To say that anyone who drinks is sinning is ABSURD, for the Lord Himself drank wine , Yes alcoholic wine.

So be careful with the accusing finger, do all to edify the Body of Christ and earnestly contend for the faith.

in love
barry your fellow bondservant
Barry,you wrote "She thinks the wine that Jesus made was grape juice non - alcoholic. Sad. I love her so."

I agree wtih this.I'
m in a hurrry so i don't have time to look up all of the vs on this so i'll try to put it down so you'll know what I'm saying to be there in God's word.

God's word said to drink the new wine only (grape jucie) and to not drink the wine when it has turned red and started to bubble (wine as it is called today)

New wine (grap juice) is good for the body,it helps the digestive system.Old wine (what we call wine today),is posion and clouds the mind making it more difficult to have a rational thought.

Webster says...... the alcoholic fermented juice of fresh grapes used as a beverage.

New wine is only grape juice and there is no posion untill it ages and begins to rot.I'm not sure if there is a Latin word for juice or not and is perhaps the reason it was called wine being that the word wine is Latin,according to my research.

I was a hard core alky from the age of 14 untill I was 27 and this was a a subject that I did much research on when I returned my life to our Father in Heaven.

Is it a sin,God's word never comes right out and says so but you could bet your last penny that if you drink to much of the old wine that sooner or later,one will end up in sin..........how much is to much depends on the person doing the drinking.

[Shiversblood]

Everytime in the past that I thought I would just have a couple drinks, it always lead to me drinking more and getting very drunk. I try to avoid it complety these days. I think I have the alcholic gene, because my dad was a alcholic. If I have 1 drink I just can't stop myself from drinking a lot more.