God's will for our personal life

[SPALATIN]

In recent discussions with my wife she has said that she believes that it is God's will that she be a Stay-at-home mom. However, our budget and home can not afford this situation. With her job at risk because of her pneumonia she is seeking to have us sell our home and move to a cheaper house just so that she can God's will can be done.

I am curious, do you think that God puts desires on your heart that should they linger would eventually pan out as his will for your life? I don't think that is how it works, but I am at a loss to explain it to her. She is convinced that since she has always wanted this that it must be his will for her.

[Willy]

I appreciate your question and your searching. Discovering God's will is in my opinion a tricky thing. Some people so much want it to be revealed to them what specific thing God wants them to do. I personally believe that it is much for complicated than that. I believe that God's will is discovered in the hard work of searching, working, reflecting, hearing from others, paying attention to experience, receiving from the Biblical word, preaching, and the sacraments. As we walk out on the water, we are found by God who is a lot like Jesus, reaching out his hand to us while we are falling. I respect your wife's choice to want to be a stay-at-home Mom. Personally, I don't think that this is a holier choice than being in the work place. Best wishes. I appreciate your vulnerability.

[ChiRho]

In recent discussions with my wife she has said that she believes that it is God's will that she be a Stay-at-home mom. However, our budget and home can not afford this situation. With her job at risk because of her pneumonia she is seeking to have us sell our home and move to a cheaper house just so that she can God's will can be done.

I am curious, do you think that God puts desires on your heart that should they linger would eventually pan out as his will for your life? I don't think that is how it works, but I am at a loss to explain it to her. She is convinced that since she has always wanted this that it must be his will for her.

Dude, one question:

1) What is more important, budget/home or a happy, loving wife that is dedicated to fulfilling the commandment to raise her children as a mother should?

God's will is given to us in Scripture. His will is found within the Church. Hardship and suffering are promised results of sin. Trust what Scripture says...not whatever feeling or voice your wife is encountering. She seems to be slightly confused that God has given her a specific love to raise her children, and the commandment to do so, and somehow thought it was some strange lingering will-revealing desire that gave her this grand ability to detect God. Her desire, while not wrong, seems very "purpose-driven," am I wrong? Regardless, I think she has a point, but not for the exact same reasons that she would probably use.

Pax

[Protoevangel]

Is she perhaps, just trying to ensure that she not be dissapointed if she does loose her job? I do applaud her choice to stay at home as a mother, but just hope she is not pushing her own will as God's in this.

[ChiRho]

Is she perhaps, just trying to ensure that she not be dissapointed if she does loose her job? I do applaud her choice to stay at home as a mother, but just hope she is not pushing her own will as God's in this.


Dan (and others),

It seems that everyone is focusing on the wife (and even Scott) and losing sight of the children. Scott's and his wife's first responsibility is to God, then their children. Barring some need where he will not be able to provide food and shelter of some sort, should she really be encouraged to leave her children for the sake of a new car, a pool, or even more square footage? Affliction sucks, but so does an inadequate childhood because no parents were around for nearly half of the waking hours. Look around at various families (very loosely) and witness the aftermath of the destruction. Our prozac nation could be healed by appropriate parenting and healthy touching in the early, yet crucial developing stages of life. Kids need hugged, often. They need to be re-assured and confident that their parents love them. Do this, and see what results.

[Zoomer]

I agree with Willy. Too many people search out a specific niche that they think is God's will for them and then that's it that's God's will. However, I think that God's will is a progress through life and is not a defined moment, career, life path or whatever you want to call it. I believe that God's will for my life is to learn from hardships, to trust in Him completely, to learn to rejoice in sorrow, to thank Him for the good times, and most importantly to learn to praise Him in all I do. I think it is God's will for everyone to learn to praise Him in all that we do because that can be such a hard thing to do sometimes. But as my Dad says, we should do everything for the glory of God.

[ChiRho]

I am still waiting for the argument, backed by Scripture, that encourages a mother to actively leave her children for any reason other than providing the essentials (food, shelter, etc.). As always, I believe much is exposed when we rightly identify motive. What is the motive?

Also, to sort of squelch the argument I see as forth coming (What right does the father have to work?), I provide this:

Genesis 3 (NASB)

16To the woman He said,
"I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you."

17Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return."

20Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.

21The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.

22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

Role distinction, given by God.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

ChiRho,

The situation is this. If she loses her job we will most likely be forced to move because we can't afford the home we have. However, if she keeps her job she wants us to sell anyways and move to a home where we can afford it on my salary alone. With all of the debt we still have my salary alone would not be able to handle anything less than a $200 payment.

This whole thing is "purpose-driven" and she hasn't even read the book, but the indoctrination she recvd growing up through the types of churches she attended have given her this ideal and she thinks that God wants us to live the ideal not the reality. I agree that God would like a mother to be there for her children. But I also believe that people need to face reality and not live in a dream world. Too often we see people pray to God that their own will is his will and not face the reality of the situation. her desire is noble but not her reality.

[Protoevangel]

Dan (and others),

It seems that everyone is focusing on the wife (and even Scott) and loosing sight of the children. Scott's and his wife's first responsibility is to God, then their children. Barring some need where he will not be able to provide food and shelter of some sort, should she really be encouraged to leave her children for the sake of a new car, a pool, or even more square footage? Affliction sucks, but so does an inadequate childhood because no parents were around for nearly half of the waking hours. Look around at various families (very loosely) and witness the aftermath of the destruction. Our prozac nation could be healed by appropriate parenting and healthy touching in the early, yet crucial developing stages of life. Kids need hugged, often. They need to be re-assured and confident that their parents love them. Do this, and see what results.
Hi ChiRho,

I completely agree with your asessment. One key part is, "Barring some need where he will not be able to provide food and shelter of some sort..." I do not know their situation, save the little bit that Scott has shared. With the reality of sin, and not knowing their situation fully, leaving work immediately could begin an avalanche of debt and family disfunction. I did not want to put it in these terms, and contribute to Scott being more apprehensive than he may already be, but the fact is, we do not know their situation. Absolutely, you are right about the problem and the solution, but taking the whole bottle of medicine all at once can make the sick even sicker.

[ChiRho]

Hi ChiRho,

I completely agree with your asessment. One key part is, "Barring some need where he will not be able to provide food and shelter of some sort..." I do not know their situation, save the little bit that Scott has shared. With the reality of sin, and not knowing their situation fully, leaving work immediately could begin an avalanche of debt and family disfunction. I did not want to put it in these terms, and contribute to Scott being more apprehensive than he may already is, but the fact is, we do not know their situation. Absolutely, you are right about the problem and the solution, but taking the whole bottle of medicine all at once can make the sick even sicker.

I agree. Scott, I didn't mean to come across any other way. Read what I type and then allow for Dan's assessment. Generally wise advise.

[SPALATIN]

I agree. Scott, I didn't mean to come across any other way. Read what I type and then allow for Dan's assessment. Generally wise advise.

Dan, ChiRho, et.al.

I appreciate the advice you have given me. I have opted to not spk about some things here because I don't want to pour out all my problems on you, but to get some perspective on the situation. As of this moment, her Doctor has told her to stay out until next Wednesday. Her boss is still not giving her any hope that she will have a job. If you ask me any company that would terminated someone because they became sick and recovery is somewhat beyond their control is morally bankrupt.

If we want to stay where we are she will have to get another job. No ifs, ands, buts or maybes about it.

[Protoevangel]

I'll pray for you and your situation, Scott! :crosseo:

[Zoomer]

Dan, ChiRho, et.al.

I appreciate the advice you have given me. I have opted to not spk about some things here because I don't want to pour out all my problems on you, but to get some perspective on the situation. As of this moment, her Doctor has told her to stay out until next Wednesday. Her boss is still not giving her any hope that she will have a job. If you ask me any company that would terminated someone because they became sick and recovery is somewhat beyond their control is morally bankrupt.

If we want to stay where we are she will have to get another job. No ifs, ands, buts or maybes about it.

Does she work full-time? If she does, then she may be covered under FMLA. I will pray for your situation.

[Willy]

ChiRho,

The situation is this. If she loses her job we will most likely be forced to move because we can't afford the home we have. However, if she keeps her job she wants us to sell anyways and move to a home where we can afford it on my salary alone. With all of the debt we still have my salary alone would not be able to handle anything less than a $200 payment.

This whole thing is "purpose-driven" and she hasn't even read the book, but the indoctrination she recvd growing up through the types of churches she attended have given her this ideal and she thinks that God wants us to live the ideal not the reality. I agree that God would like a mother to be there for her children. But I also believe that people need to face reality and not live in a dream world. TooWow! I appreciate your thoughts esp. on idealism vs. reality. I think with such thoughts you are drawing close to the nature of Lutheran thinking. We specialize in ambiguity. Faith is discovered in the midst of ambiguity. I don't think there is a "right" answer for you. I think you must discern that answer in light of al the things you are dealing with.
often we see people pray to God that their own will is his will and not face her desire is noble but not her reality.

Wow! I appreciate your thoughts esp. on idealism vs. reality. I think with such thoughts you are drawing close to the nature of Lutheran thinking. We specialize in ambiguity. Faith is discovered in the midst of ambiguity. I don't think there is a "right" answer for you. I think you must discern that answer in light of all the things you are dealing with.
.

[ctobola]

Scott,

I think your desire to seek God's will is admirable; but I don't think seeking the Lord's will necessarily means you will find a "right" or "wrong" answer (or even that there are black and white answers.)

Regardless of what path you go down, God is in charge -- and His grace will work in your lives even if you make a "mistake."

He is in control of all things -- the important thing is that you continue to seek His will, even when the answers aren't clear. I tend to think that's what faith is all about, and you are obviously a person of faith.

All the best. You and your wife are in my prayers.

-Cloy

In recent discussions with my wife she has said that she believes that it is God's will that she be a Stay-at-home mom. However, our budget and home can not afford this situation. With her job at risk because of her pneumonia she is seeking to have us sell our home and move to a cheaper house just so that she can God's will can be done.

I am curious, do you think that God puts desires on your heart that should they linger would eventually pan out as his will for your life? I don't think that is how it works, but I am at a loss to explain it to her. She is convinced that since she has always wanted this that it must be his will for her.

[Phoebe]

Scott, has your wife considered running an in- home daycare?

I believe God reveals His will in many different ways, so the way I hear from God may not be the way your wife hears. I also think it is possible that people will believe their will to be God's.

Have you wondered if this is God's way to get you to put more trust in His provision for you?

[MORTANIUS]

Gods Will is not for our material benefit or loss. It is through such good and bad fortune that Gods Will tests our souls.

Gods Will is a blessing in disguise. On one hand, while a gain may seem like a blessing, it may cost us our soul. On the other, it may benefit it.

Gods Will is strangely hard to understand in many circumstances.

[ByzantineDixie]

Our God is the God of Ambiguity? Our God, the Lover of Mankind, who came down from heaven, became incarnate, was crucified and rose again to conquer sin, death and the devil and restore life because of His great love for us...this Good God specializes in some kind of cruel "guess what number I am thinking of" game? No! It is only our sinfulness that keeps us from hearing and knowing the will of God.

Here is an excerpt from a wonderful sermon written by Father Fenton on the subject of God's will.

Often we say that we don't know what the Lord's holy will is. We talk as if it is a mystery to determine and figure out the Lord's will; as if the Lord is hiding His good and gracious will from us; as if our life is to be spent guessing what the Lord wants from us. That may be how we toy with each other—with our spouses, our children, our friends, our loved ones. We may purposefully, and meanly, keep them guessing about what pleases us. But that's not how it is with Our Lord. He doesn't treat us as we treat each other. He takes no pleasure in playing guessing games with us. And the kingdom of heaven is not found by figuring out the Lord's fickleness—or any other riddles and puzzles. For the Lord knows we will fail every time. And, beside that, He is a kind, gracious, loving and merciful God who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. So no guessing games.

The Lord's holy will is very clearly laid out. It is found in the Ten Commandments, in all the Bible stories, in the Sermon on the Mount, and in the epistles of the Apostles. Many, many times, Our Lord Jesus summarizes the will of the Father. And in today's parable He says it again. The will of the Father is this: live not for yourself, but entirely for the Father through His Son in the Spirit. So do not love what the world gives. Do not chase after the riches the world promises. Do not feed your passions or addictions. Do not think and do for yourself. Do not first get yours, and then help someone else. And do not live in fear—the fear that God won't or can't or doesn't take care of you. Instead, live in the confidence, in the boldness, in the certainty that the Lord is merciful. Live in the Spirit that Our Father is constantly calling, inviting, gathering and drawing you into Himself. So live not in fear, but in the love, the kindness, the compassion and the grace that Jesus is, and that the Holy Spirit generously pours over and into you by the Holy Sacraments. For then you no longer live for yourself, but you live in God—and you live His will.

God's will in all things! May His grace guide you and your wife as you make this difficult choice and may His peace be with you.

[BigNorsk]

That big what does God desire us to do question. It's certainly a biggey isn't it. Of course I thought it was supposed to be God's desires became ours not our desires becomes God's, but close enough for government.

Maybe her employer will make part of the decision for you, but I do think her being fired wouldn't really change anything in the short term, either you can do this and she can quit or you can't and she will need to find another job.

It certainly is true that debt is a form of slavery isn't it. It really takes away your options.

It sounds good to move and save money, but in the short term, moving tends to cost. With all the fees from mortgages and such I doubt if you can move and have a nest egg unless your house has appreciated to give you a cushion. You would also probably need to rent instead of buy if you are going to swing it.

There are a lot of cost involved in having both parents work, extra cars, extra clothes, extra taxes, child care expenses and so on. The drop in real income probably wouldn't be as much as you fear. However, if time at home means more time to shop or gamble or sit and watch tv, it can be very bad too. I would point out that the demand for child care means just about any stay at home mom I know who doesn't have more than one murder conviction can do babysitting to bring in some income. She might prefer just to have your kids, but back to beggers and choosers.

I would think it is probably impossible for you to make such a sudden change unless an opportunity comes up for a job for you that represents something like maybe a 20% increase, but that doesn't mean you can't do it, maybe just not today. I would have to ask though, if this has been a long term wish of her's has she lived like that is what she wants to do, or have expenses risen to be income plus 10%? I don't mean to pick on her, it is certainly possible for you to undermine any such plans with a few purchases.

If she wants to stay home, that is commendable, but it isn't very helpful if it approached just from the standpoint that that's the way it should be and it's your job to make it come true. I'm not saying she is like that, I am just exagerating to make a point. You are a team and you both have to be willing to make adjustments for this to happen.

Sit down and come up with a plan. Real high needs to be the elimination of debt, and a lot of those big ticket items don't cash out real well if one tries to downsize. It can all happen pretty fast, but to really get in a position to do it will probably take a couple of years. You need to really work at it and avoid new debt, no new cars, if you need another car, get a mechanically sound used car. If you look a little there are literally thousands of good used cars out there due to the infatuation with and easy debt with new cars.

Now a couple of years can be a good goal, but you need to realize a couple of things, one, I do think that it is almost certain that we are moving into a big time recession in the near future. It is going to be very difficult if a major recession puts house prices in the tank in a couple of years. One way you can manage that is sell your house and go back to renting until you can buy that less expensive house, then if a recession actually drops prices you can actually get that other house sooner. I imagine the idea of renting is about as appealing as coffee that's been sitting in the pot since last week, but something to consider.

The other thing that becomes very important is your job, since you work for the state, I would assume you have pretty good security, but probably limited advancement potential.

Your new location should be carefully chosen, being close to the light rail so you can eliminate one vehicle by riding the rail to work would be a big long-term help.

Here's a tough question for you, if you sold everything you could and paid all your loans off, every one, how much would be left over? You should figure this out in case she gets fired and wants to make the move to staying at home. Can you sell everything, pay off the debts and start over? And at that point can you live on your salary? Not so much can you, but are both of you willing to?

That's a simple version, maybe you don't sell the appliances or the appliances and some of the furniture or maybe not one car, but a lot depends on how much you owe.

What is she willing to give up? Would she and you be willing to live in a neighborhood that maybe isn't as safe as where you are now? Would it be possible for you to transfer to one of the smaller Minnesota towns. You could probably live a little better there on the same salary. Not big, maybe 10%, but you can also probably kiss goodbye to selling your house for 10 times what you paid for it in 40 years.

It's all about what are you and her willing to give up for what you are going to gain. If noone wants to give up anything, it won't work.

Marv

[C.F.W. Walther]

I am still waiting for the argument, backed by Scripture, that encourages a mother to actively leave her children for any reason other than providing the essentials (food, shelter, etc.). As always, I believe much is exposed when we rightly identify motive. What is the motive?

Also, to sort of squelch the argument I see as forth coming (What right does the father have to work?), I provide this:

Genesis 3 (NASB)

16To the woman He said,
"I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you."

17Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return."

20Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.

21The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.

22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

Role distinction, given by God.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Being Christians, sometimes, it's hard for us to do God's will when it gets to be a personal issue. We read, assimilate and have vast resourses from the Bible on which to draw but sometimes it's hard to make that faith jump. I think I've mentioned before the allmost vast gulf of the connection between head and heart. ChiRho has touched on the subject of man's role of work but I think it needs to be said that there is more than just that. Man has been put as the spiritual head and the discerner of God's will through the Word. That's what spiritual head of the house is, to me anyway. If I have to I'll quote chapter and verse but I think all of us know the sources.

I think some of us have been undully influenced by outside denoms that advocate the place of women in the church but I don't think that an issue like this can be resolved unless roles, advocated by the Word, are rightly assesed. I know this is a hard decision Scott but if we don't follow his dictates then how can we expect bleessing in this situation. The choice is there but can we make it? Are we able to make a spiritual decision at the expense of harmony? Me personally? I don't know if I could untill it happens.

John 8:30-32 (King James Version)

30As he spake these words, many believed on him.


31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32And ye shall know the truth, And the truth shall make you free.










:confused:

[alabaster jar]

I'm a stay at home mom. I certainly feel my kids are worth it. Today we played with Polly Dolls--literally had a fashion show, voted 'off' our way to number one. A couple days before that we walked four miles with our dog. Of course, it's not just fun and games, I clean, wash clothes by HAND (no washing machine), do the bills, grocery shop, mow the lawn, garden, cook, etc. I think there is a huge misconception that stay at home moms don't DO ANTHING but eat bon bons and watch soap operas. But I digress, I think your wife is on the RIGHT track. JMHO. Find a cheaper home, used cars, clothes at garage sales, unplug the cable/dish, stop eating out, and as other's have suggested, she could watch a couple kids besides her own. She could also work part time on the weekends, when you could likely be home with your kids.

As an interesting side note, I had both my parents growing up as my dad was a farmer and my mom his helpmate, always busy providing and caring on our farm. It's odd to me that kids are often left for strangers to watch and care for, as if they could give them the love they so richly NEED. I don't know how we have seemed to put all our priorities upside down as a nation/culture in general. It's one thing to provide basic necessities, but another to spend our time and energy on THINGS over our little ones.

So, anyway, that's my little rant for the day! Sorry if I have offended anyone--just trying to speak my mind on a sensitive area for me! Good luck and God Bless!

[LilLamb219]

So, anyway, that's my little rant for the day! Sorry if I have offended anyone--just trying to speak my mind on a sensitive area for me! Good luck and God Bless!

I agree with everything you said and thought you wrote it out eloquently :)

I'm a stay at home mom as well. I've often wondered what we would do if something were to happen to my husband's job...or my husband. Yikes! I've come to the conclusion that I would make a point to become a work at home mom so I could still take care of the things around the home that were my responsibility and not have to pass them onto others. That includes raising my child.

Scott, your wife may be feeling overwhelmed right now in her life. Maybe you could consider her wishes to see if it would be the best thing for your family? Would it be so bad to do without some luxuries to make your family a little closer? Parents sacrifice a lot for their children and it's often done out of love :)

[filosofer]

Someone had suggested that first priority is God, and then for you and your wife it is your kids. However, I would say that the best way to love your kids is to love your wife and support her, spiritually, emotionally, as well as physically. This is much more difficult than just saying the words. Sense of being is established by who we are in Christ and how that works out in our relationships with others.

From what little you have revealed in this (and other) threads, there are some critical areas in your relationship with your wife that need attention. Her job seems to be a minor part of that. Were I your pastor, I would pursue some of the underlying questions/issues.

But that is me trying to read between the lines, and may be presumptious on my part. If so, forgive me for being so bold.