Evangelical Lutheran Worship

[KagomeShuko]

"Evangelical Lutheran Worship" (the new ELCA hymnal) is going to have a RED cover. It's another "red" book. Eeek! Talk about confusing, huh? We have the old red hymnal, and those congregations that use the hymnal supplement 1991 from GIA publications sometimes call it a red book, too!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[SPALATIN]

the LCMS has approved a new hymnal last year to come out late next year or early 2007. It will be different than the ELCA one.

[RedneckAnglican]

so is this going to be the new old red book...the old new red book...the new new red book...or the old old red book?...

[ctobola]

Interesting, but not surprising...


Delay of new worship materials proposed Wednesday morning

by Betsy Carlson

The 2005 ELCA Churchwide Assembly is considering a delay in adopting "Renewing Worship Project" new resources that includes changing the decision-making process for the project.

Pastor David Mayer of the Southwestern Texas Synod moved to amend the Renewing Worship process to delay approval until 2009 and to bring finished resources to the Churchwide Assembly then for final approval.

The process had been proposed initially to the assembly as being finished by the ELCA worship committee under the auspices and with the approval of the Presiding Bishop's office.

Mayer called for establishment of a task force, similar to the sexuality task force, for study and review. He proposed the task force include seminary professors, clergy, lay leaders and synodical bishops and work to ensure
theological consistency and reflect the musical diversity of the church's traditions.

He called for broader input and communication within the ELCA and acknowledged that good and important work has been done already.

Pastor Michael Burk, ELCA director for worship, maintained that the original process "mimics" practices that are already in place and that the proposed amendment would set a precedent in changing process to bring worship materials to churchwide assemblies for final approval.

Sarah Johnson of the Southwestern Minnesota Synod asked where the blessing of water fit into Lutheran theology and tradition. Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson ruled the question referred to content and was not germane to consideration of the amendment. In response to a later question under a
point of privilege as to why that question wasn't germane, Hanson said content questions would be appropriate at times but that it could have been appealed.

Johnson came forward under a personal point of privilege and challenged Hanson's ruling by stating that it was very important for her and the votes of many others to understand the proposed blessing of water in the new
worship resources.

Susan Briehl, project associate at Valparaiso University, Ind., said the Word of God, in Baptism, makes the water regenerative and that it is Confessional that it is the Word of God at work.

The ELCA treasurer raised concerns about the cost of creating a task force.

Rosalie Rosholt, Southwestern Minnesota Synod, expressed concern that information has not been available on feedback to the Renewing Worship group about possible resources.

Karl Moyer of the Lower Susquehanna Synod sang a few of the revised texts, much to the surprise of the assembly. He said that text patterns such as "AB AB" were placed with tunes with "AA AA" patterns producing unsatisfactory experiences. He said the materials need to be looked at
across the church so such quirks can be discovered.

"The need for speed is not so great as the need for care," declared Moyer.

Prof. Robert Benne of the Virginia Synod raised a concern about the names used for "God" in language in the new resources. He described the new materials as having "snipped," "pruned" and "annihilated" masculine names for God. He noted that "Lord, Master, King and Father," have been eliminated in several places.

To the surprise of many, Psalm 23 as used in worship at the assembly could not say, "The Lord" is my shepherd but rather came out, "God" is my shepherd.

The assembly had not voted on the amendment before lunch.
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[GlowingFirefly]

Gee and I kind of liked the Hymnal supplement. My Pastor was actually telling my congregation about this a few Sundays back. I hope the new one doesn't replace the hymnal supplement.

Of course my Pastor calls the hymnal supplement the Maroon hymnal, not red hymnal. So at least my church will be able to tell the difference between the two. :D

[Melethiel]

Prof. Robert Benne of the Virginia Synod raised a concern about the names used for "God" in language in the new resources. He described the new materials as having "snipped," "pruned" and "annihilated" masculine names for God. He noted that "Lord, Master, King and Father," have been eliminated in several places.

Scary. They'd better fix that before releasing the hymnal. And tell them not to touch All Creatures of Our God and King.

[KagomeShuko]

Gee and I kind of liked the Hymnal supplement. My Pastor was actually telling my congregation about this a few Sundays back. I hope the new one doesn't replace the hymnal supplement.

Of course my Pastor calls the hymnal supplement the Maroon hymnal, not red hymnal. So at least my church will be able to tell the difference between the two. :D

You are the FIRST person I've known that actually has a church that uses the hymnal supplement other than ours. (Most people go "the what??")

I look at it and called it maroon, too, but they always just call it "the red book."

We have the LBW and WOV as well, so we have "the green book" and "the blue book."

I like the HS as well. . .shame on us for liking Marty Haugen, I guess. . .there are people who actually complain about his music! I love the HS and I love the Holden Evening Prayer. . they have such pretty worship music!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Melethiel]

I've seen the maroon supplement lying around the church...we don't use it though.

[GlowingFirefly]

You are the FIRST person I've known that actually has a church that uses the hymnal supplement other than ours. (Most people go "the what??")


I feel special. ;) :)

We use it during Lent for the most part. We usually don't use it anytime else.

[KagomeShuko]

I feel special. ;) :)

We use it during Lent for the most part. We usually don't use it anytime else.

We'll change when we use it. There are times that it's been used all Pentecost long. . .not this summer, though. We're using the LBW.

There are times we use it during Advent, I think. It just really depends on what the Worship and Music committee decides.

We don't use any of the service music in WOV, though. We just sing hymns from it.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[KagomeShuko]

Scary. They'd better fix that before releasing the hymnal. And tell them not to touch All Creatures of Our God and King.

I've gotten to see the Renewing Worship book that is out just for example for the churches to see. It's a lot of "newer" songs/hymns. A lot of them aren't really new, but just (oh dread!) have never appeared in a Lutheran hymnal before now.

I can say that one of the issues brought up (got this from a LiveJournal friend who is at this assembly) is that it could use more harmony in the songs - and that's VERY true. I've seen those songs with more harmony! In fact, I HAVE some of those songs in songbooks and they hae more harmony!

If they're doing anything with hymns, they better not touch A LOT of them. I'll be mad if they do! (Hey, I sing a lot of hymns the old way - not even the way they are in the LBW!)

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[KagomeShuko]

From my LJ friend who is at the assembly:

The biggest order of the day (at least to me) was Renewing Worship, which, I am happy to report, was passed and approved. The CWA doesn't actually approve the final product--that responsibility goes to the Conference of Bishops and the Church Council. But believe me, people were trying to get final approval! There were at least 3 motions to delay approval for anywhere from 2 to 4 years so that a CWA could see the completed final product. But those were defeated (that goodness!), so we should have the resources in hand soon. There was lots of talk about rushing through this (crazy talk, since it's been going on since 2001), and LOTS of complaint about the theology--nothing I've really heard from any pastors that have actually used it. One of the big issues was over masculine pronouns. Apparantly they went for a balance of using "Him" or using the 'generic' "God" to keep it from being completely masculine, and that got people very upset. But it passed, so there.

[Melethiel]

Well, I'm mad at them for passing Renewing Worship. Inclusive gender pronouns are a joke. Are we Pagan or Christian? Christianity is a patriarchal religion. Get over it.

Then, after two hours of debate, delegates gave sustained applause for the approval of work on the new book that attempts to be open to different cultures and new musical styles. It will offer alternatives such as "Holy Eternal Majesty, Holy Incarnate Word, Holy Abiding Spirit" for the male-dominated Trinitarian image of "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" in prayers during Sunday services.

http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/1123752947290460.xml&coll=2

Now that's a mouthful. It's also going against 2000 years of Christian Tradition. They can make me sing contemporary hymns, but they won't make me do that. All I know is, if my church implements a shred of gender inclusive liturgy, I'm going LCMS, even though I wasn't particularly impressed by the one I visited in this area.

[Tetzel]

Is there a place where we can see some of the work that's been done, I'd like to get a look.

[Protoevangel]

http://www.renewingworship.org/about/proposal/contents.html

[Tetzel]

The Gender inclusiveness stuff looks kind of strange when one pages down and sees that the Creeds have not been altered as well.

[sculpturegirl]

Let's just say, I am not optimistic about the new hymnal. Gender-inclusiveness annoys me to no end. It reminds me of a wimpy husband who has nothing more to say to his controlling wife than a pitiful, "yes dear."

[OrthoCanuck]

It reminds me of a wimpy husband who has nothing more to say to his controlling wife than a pitiful, "yes dear."

HOW DID YOU KNOW...oh...you weren't talking about me.;)


But seriously, Gender Inclusiveness can easily go to far. The alternative to "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is absolutely disgusting. Just because we call the Father, 'father' doesn't mean he is specifically male. I understood that when I was a little kid. If any church I attended used "Holy Eternal Majesty, Holy Incarnate Word, Holy Abiding Spirit" instead of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" it would be the absolute last time I stepped into that parish.:sick:

Peace.

[UberLutheran]

We use a mixture of service music -- alternating between Setting II (green book), Now the Feast and Celebration, and Setting V (blue book).

We're thinking about doing a "retro" service, right out of the old Red Book. we have some "cradle Lutherans" in our congregation who probably remember the "Red Book" services from pre-1978.

You know -- there is nothing about the "new hymnal" which precludes keeping the old Green Hymnal, the Blue Hymnal, and the Supplement as standard worship tools. We even use Red Hymnal hymns as necessary -- or even supplement our music with music from the Episcopal, Methodist and even Baptist Hymnals when the music is theologically appropriate to the texts for the day.

[saami]

so is this going to be the new old red book...the old new red book...the new new red book...or the old old red book?...

I had a color blind organist and we used a red "The Lutheran Hymnal" and a green "Lutheran Book of Worship" they both looked brown to him!

[Tetzel]

You know -- there is nothing about the "new hymnal" which precludes keeping the old Green Hymnal, the Blue Hymnal, and the Supplement as standard worship tools.

Well there is the fact that pews need to hold people and not be turned into bookshelves for a library of hymnody ;)