4QMMT-A Sectarian Manifesto

[Devasha]

By the way have you heard of the MMT document. It is one of the scrolls of the dead sea, and it is a manual of Dicipline practiced by the Rabbinicals Jews, not the Escenes, but was in their documents probably because they opposed these things. But it is translated "Works of the LAW" and represents a large volume codifying the many Rabbinical laws and how they were to be observed. Some feel that when Paul says "If righteousness came through works of the Law. . ." he is actually refering to this codice that was prevelant in those days. It was the code of conduct for those whom Paul opposed. I have not found an English translation yet. Do you know of one?

Charles, I don't know if this is the document you are referring to, but I have it in English in The Dead Sea Scrolls A New Translation by West, Abegg and Cook. Here's Amazon's page for it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060692014/qid=1123277088/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_2/104-9413590-6762359

I also have The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible by Abegg and Flint (Amazon link below), so I'm hoping that means I have all of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Biblical and non-Biblical, in English translation.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060600640/qid=1123277245/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9413590-6762359?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Here's the first paragraph of the intro to 4QMMT, quoting from page 358 of The Dead Sea Scrolls A New Translation:

In all of antiquity, only the Manifesto and Paul's Letters to the Galatians and Romans discuss the connection between works and righteousness. For that reason alone this writing is of immense interest and importance. But the Manifesto has additional significance. While the sectarian documents found in the caves at Qumran fairly bristle with legal discussions on a variety of issues, only this work, commonly known as 4QMMT (an acronym from the Hebrew words meaning "some of the works of the Law"), directly challenges the position of another religious group. Because of the potentially defining character of such a response, scholars have hoped to find in the Manifesto a basis for a definitive identification of the group behind the sectarian scrolls.

Quoting from page 359 of the same book, the first section of translation of the scroll 4QMMT:

I. Legal Body: Do not mix the holy with the profane.

These are some of our pronouncements [concerning the law of Go]d. Specifically, s[ome of pronouncement] concerning works of the law that w[e have determined ... and al]l of them concern [defiling mixtures] and the purity of [the sanctuary ... ]

1. Ban on offerings using Gentile grain (Mishnah Parah 2:1).

[Concerning the offering of Gentile gr]ain [which they are ... ] and allowing their [ ... ] to touch it and def[ile it. No one should eat] from [Gent]ile grain [nor] bring it into the sanctuary [ ... ]

I've found the English translations in these books difficult to read because of the fragmented nature of it, as you can see above. I guess this is so because of so many of the documents only existing in fragments. The translators do a good job of explaining how they tried to come up with a coherent text. For instance, the example above, the italics (which I represented by bolding within the italic quote) are added-in explanatory headings, and the "square brackets surround lost areas in the scroll due to various types of damage". What I left out of the quote above were little superscript numbers appearing in the book that "indicate the line number of the fragment".

I believe there is also a book published of all the photographs of the scrolls and fragments that these translators used, but I can't remember the exact title of it.

[Charles YTK]

Yes this is the document, Qumran cave 4 MMT. I had an article on this with a bunch of quotes but I can't find it. Thanks for the links. Actually I have number of books on the scrolls and most of the text in English. But I don't seem to have the MMT.


Thanks

Charles

[Charles YTK]

Here is the link for an article about the MMT. It provides a good overview with some good quotes that demonstrate that Paul may have been actually refering to this document and the practice established by it. MMT is an acronym for Miqsat Ma'ase Ha-Torah, "Some Works of the law" and prescribes the things a person needed to do in order to be found Righteous before God. It is the very thing Paul taught against, man ignoring God's way of Justifying a man and make for themselves through legal observance and ritual a way to justify themselves.

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p104.html

[Tishri1]

yeh! evidence! finally, now everyone can quit mixing up the Torah with the Works Of The Law!:clap:

[Devasha]

Hey, Tishri, we're hair twins! Cool. :cool: :clap:

[Bon]

Here are some New Testament references, perhaps to this the MMT:

Romans 3:20. For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:15. We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners, 6. yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.

Galatians 3:1. O FOOLISH Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? 3. Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh? 4. Did you experience so many things in vain?--if it really is in vain. 5. Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? 6. Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7. So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8. And the scripture, forseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9. So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith. 10. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.”




Do you think? :scratch:

Bon

[Torah]

I give this. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Charles YTK]

Do you think? :scratch:

Bon

Bon,
I do not think that we can just plug the MMT into every occassion that Paul says "Works of the law". We really need to look at the context. In many places he is speaking of Legalism and Rabbinical orinances. At other times he might be referring to keeping the Torah with the intent of earning your own salvation. What is truth though is that in the 2nd temple period, the Jewish authority did not distinguish between written and oral Torah. They were all wrapped together and like today, the Oral Torah was considered the practicle daily application of the law, the thing that was to be followed. The written Torah had become more of a reference book way on the back shelf of their library and it was seldom used other than in a formal settings. It was their understanding and Halacha that was enforced as we can see in numerous quotes of the New testament. Such as the incident of hand washing before eating; And What you could do on Sabbath, and the many critical remarks Yeshua made about the Pharises and their traditions and how it made Gods Torah of no effect.

Blessing to you,

Charles

[Bon]

Thanks Charles....

Yes, that makes better sense.

This MMT document has been available to the public since 1994. I've never heard of it until now.

I have to admit that I am "conservatively" excited about this info.
Gotta do some research and study now. :)

I've been thinking lately.....how is it that VERY learned scholars ( I mean, people who are theological experts including languages, grammar and the like)...who are so close to the mark of the truth....can still be so blind to truth of Yahweh's word.
How can it be?.......Is it that, when they begin their studies with their own preconcieved ideas, they twist and torture texts until they fit their slant on the Bible?

I guess it IS all to do with hermeneutics, how we interpret the Word, isn't it.

But what about context and harmony?

Do they have to follow the crowd?....Where did I read recently...that many pastors and church leaders who rocked the boat with Biblical truths, contrary to the doctrines of the church, were theatened with the loss of their positions and their monetary incomes etc.....so they are basically backed into a corner and forced to choose either a continuing livlihood or the unemployment line.

Anyway.....just airing my thoughts.....:)

Thanks for listening.

PS...Charles....I appreciate that you are back. I always enjoyed your posts. They provide much food for thought.

You are a great blessing to this forum.

Bon

[Charles YTK]

Bon,

You have the answer right there. Most people enter into a study with an objective or at least a set of criteria which they will follow, and therefore they slant the Data without realizing it. If you have a theological background of Chrisian you have ingrained in you certain accepted doctrines that you can not violate or you destablize your own beliefs. So you will understand things in a way that fits that criteria. So you will come up with results that confirm what you already knew.

When you get into Ministry and your are affiliated with a denomination they sort of pay your way through school and sponsor your ordination. If you ever cross party lines they will call you in for correction. If you continue to oppose their doctrine, you will loose their ordination and are black marked in regards to other Churches as well to a certain extent. I have talked to many preachers and they confess to knowing the truth but admit that they are not free to teach it or they will lose their position and their income benefits and everything. So they preach the party line. And this is the same in all denomiations. An independent non-denomiational preacher has little more flexibility because he has to answer to those who are the elders and administrators of that church. It is all a bad system. This is why one who is really going to minister the truth is bound to do as Paul said, and work so as to be no burden on anyone and (not to be tied with loyalties to anyone) other than the Lord and his word.

Thanks for the kind words toward me,
I assure you that the respect and love is mutual.

Charles

[Steve Petersen]

"If I hadn't believed it, I wouldn't have seen it!"

[Torah]

You have the answer right there. Most people enter into a study with an objective or at least a set of criteria which they will follow, and therefore they slant the Data without realizing it. If you have a theological background of Chrisian you have ingrained in you certain accepted doctrines that you can not violate or you destablize your own beliefs. So you will understand things in a way that fits that criteria. So you will come up with results that confirm what you already knew.

When you get into Ministry and your are affiliated with a denomination they sort of pay your way through school and sponsor your ordination. If you ever cross party lines they will call you in for correction. If you continue to oppose their doctrine, you will loose their ordination and are black marked in regards to other Churches as well to a certain extent. I have talked to many preachers and they confess to knowing the truth but admit that they are not free to teach it or they will lose their position and their income benefits and everything. So they preach the party line. And this is the same in all denomiations. An independent non-denomiational preacher has little more flexibility because he has to answer to those who are the elders and administrators of that church. It is all a bad system. This is why one who is really going to minister the truth is bound to do as Paul said, and work so as to be no burden on anyone and (not to be tied with loyalties to anyone) other than the Lord and his word.

Thanks for the kind words toward me,
I assure you that the respect and love is mutual.

Charles

well put.

Go back 2000 years and it is as if you step into the same situation. Funny how time repeats itself. This is why My Rabbi says if you want to see the future look to the past.

[Bracy]

In all of antiquity, only the Manifesto and Paul's Letters to the Galatians and Romans discuss the connection between works and righteousness.



This seems a very strange thing for the writer to say. Isn’t it precisely the connection between “works” and “righteousness” that James speaks of in his epistle?



James 2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Doesn’t Peter also speak about “works” and “righteousness?”



1 Peter 2:12: Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.



And doesn’t John speak about this connection between “works” and “righteousness” as well?



1 John 3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.



Am I missing something? Do I not understand the writer correctly?

[Charles YTK]

Bracy,

I think maybe you misunderstood. The QMMT is a document found among the Dead sea scrolls that is a codice of Rabbinical type ordinances of ritual purities and such, all this outside Torah which was called "Some works of the Law". And the idea presented is that when Paul says,... your righteousness comes by faith not by "Works of the law" he is actually speaking of the code of conduct that was followed by te Jews at that time. Sort of a legalism manual. Certainly Paul is not speaking ill of Torah or good deed Mitzvah, but instead the legalisms of the Pharisees.

[Bracy]

Charles:

I think maybe you misunderstood. The QMMT is a document found among the Dead sea scrolls that is a codice of Rabbinical type ordinances of ritual purities and such, all this outside Torah which was called "Some works of the Law". And the idea presented is that when Paul says,... your righteousness comes by faith not by "Works of the law" he is actually speaking of the code of conduct that was followed by te Jews at that time. Sort of a legalism manual. Certainly Paul is not speaking ill of Torah or good deed Mitzvah, but instead the legalisms of the Pharisees.

Ahh, okay. That makes sense. Where he said "works and righteousness," he was talking about "works of the law and righteousness." Thanks for clarifying that for me. :)

[Tishri1]

Hey, Tishri, we're hair twins! Cool. :cool: :clap:yeh I needed to be as orange as I could be....I just don't feel right as a blond right now this color feels right to me....twinnies yippy:clap: :clap: