What do you think about this?

[Torah]

What are your thoughts on drinking Wine, Beer, strong drink.?

[Bruce101]

moderation

Wine and beer okay, not sure about liquor

Bruce

[Tishri1]

What are your thoughts on drinking Wine, Beer, strong drink.?How strong? I think if it is not gonna upset your thinking then fine...we have chosen though not to drink till our son turns 21(he's 18 right now) to set a good example for him(to much glory these days given to alcohol and we just want to play it down for a few years

[Wags]

Dh's Zayde (grandpa) had a rule that you couldn't toast L'Chaim, unless it was at least 80 proof!

I think moderation is the key! A shot or two of shlivovitz at Pesach isn't going to hurt anyone (if they aren't driving of course!). I also don't belive in providing any alcohol to minors! Regardless if they have had their bar/bat mitzvah yet.

[Bon]

OK in moderation.

Not to get drunk.

Bon

[Torah]

Wags :D

I would like to discuss this after Shabbat.
Shabbat Shalom.

[visionary]

Good for what ails you.

[plum]

I think a sign of maturity is moderation *hehe* maybe i'm wrong, but let's just say I don't think anyone in this forum will say:
"just went to a kegger last night, bro! man, being drunk is the only way to score chicks! screw it if it's wrong! I'm free, man!"
let's just say i knew a few people like this is college.

[Devasha]

I think all of them are okay as long as it doesn't become an idol or limit service to YHVH.

[CovenantRay]

Shabat Shalom:

Having cluster headaches, I can't drink. We say the Kaddish and we all have a sip of wine. If I have a half a glass or more, I get a hum dinger!

I agree with the concensus -- moderation is the key. This is not a problem for me. My chances of getting drunk is 0%.

This is one way of turning a deficit into an advantage! :thumbsup:

Todah!

CovenantRay. :prayer:

[christinepro]

I don't like to get drunk but I shure like to relax. Noah liked his drink!!

[yod]

woo hoo! Keg party at Wags house!!!

Bring your toga!



:P


I bought a six-pack a few years ago just to prove that I could. I drank half of one beer and it set in my refrigerator for about 2 years before my wife finally threw it away.

now you made me want one.:sigh:

[Mikhail]

What are your thoughts on drinking Wine, Beer, strong drink.?

I am under aNazarite vow so all these are currently forbidden for me due to my consecration to YHWH.

However before I took the vow I drank 1 or 2 drinks socially and took the view that as soon as aI felt a bit more than joyful that it was time to stop.
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Gino

[Bananna]

In moderation is good.
Medicinal is good.

Kids get it in moderation as they desire on Shabbat, then then one bottle of watered down wine does not go real far. At Passover the kids get real sleepy. We have never had one drunk. Could be watering down helps, or could be training moderation helps.

bananna

[visionary]

should we all not foilllow after the nazarite standard?

[Bruce101]

should we all not foilllow after the nazarite standard?

Why? I look ridiculous in long locks of hair.:D

Bruce

[Henaynei]

Torah forbids liquor only to the nazir

we are admonished to not become drunkards - but we are also admonished to enjoy intoxicating drink as well... as has been said... moderation....

just because scripture denounces drunkenness does not support abstinence from drinking intoxicating drink --- any more than the denouncement of gluttony supports the abstinence of food ;)

[Henaynei]

no we should not all follow the nazarite standard - the vow of nazir is one of especial sanctification/separation - to treat it as common would cheapen it just as saying that the high priest should always wear his Most Holy robs when walking the streets would cheapen and dirty the Most Holy robs... "there is a time and purpose for everything under heaven" - to insist on a mountain top existence/experience all the time removes us from the fellowship and community of our fellows and at the same time takes the holy experience of the mountain top and cheapens it to the gutter level by making it just as common

[Mikhail]

no we should not all follow the nazarite standard - the vow of nazir is one of especial sanctification/separation - to treat it as common would cheapen it just as saying that the high priest should always wear his Most Holy robs when walking the streets would cheapen and dirty the Most Holy robs... "there is a time and purpose for everything under heaven" - to insist on a mountain top existence/experience all the time removes us from the fellowship and community of our fellows and at the same time takes the holy experience of the mountain top and cheapens it to the gutter level by making it just as common

Hi Hinaynei,
I have to agree with all your post in this one...that makes a change us agreeing on a post :D :wave:
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Gino

[Mikhail]

should we all not foilllow after the nazarite standard?
Hi Visionary,
If I was not on the Nazirite Vow I sure would enjoy a nice bottle of red from time to time Australia has some of the best wines in the world :thumbsup:
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Gino

[Wags]

woo hoo! Keg party at Wags house!!!

Bring your toga!



:P

Toga?!? House?!? - I'm still waiting to move into my house!! The builder is only running 3 months behind schedule...:sigh:

We don't drink beer - only the small glass of sweet kosher wine for erev Shabbat and of course kosher Schlivovitz (plum brandy - but I can't stand it, smells like diesel!) usually only at passover. Its tough to find kosher for passover Schlivovitz - I have to special order it from Ernie's Hungarian Delli in LA.

Hmmm.... we will have a home blessing party once we finally can move in... might have to get out the good stuff for that! :cool:

[Steve Petersen]

We can say for sure that drinking is not forbidden. I fact, Torah authorizes it, at least in regard to celebrating Sukkot:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

There is also an intersting saying in the Talmud:

'Yayin (wine) goes in, and Sod (wisdom) comes forth."

[jul7246]

It's not right to get drunk. Jesus drank wine..
but i tried wine..didn't like it.
i know beer isn't good...so i don't like drinking at all!

[plum]

It's not right to get drunk. Jesus drank wine..
but i tried wine..didn't like it.
i know beer isn't good...so i don't like drinking at all!
I'm like you. I don't like wine (but i wouldn't mind trying a dessert wine to see if the sweeter ones are better)
and I really, really don't like beer one bit. I think this stems from my past. My dad was an alcoholic who let me take sips of his beer. The smell makes me wretch to this day. That helped in high school when people would invite me to parties... "heck no!"

[Henaynei]

Hi Hinaynei,
I have to agree with all your post in this one...that makes a change us agreeing on a post :D :wave:
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Ginoyet, do you believe it?, there are those who say the day of miracles has past ;) :thumbsup: Shalom dear brother :D May His miracles never cease!! ;)

[MyLittleWonders]

Chiming in late here ... ;) I believe moderation is the key as others have stated. My husband and I choose not to have alcohol in the house, except those little bottles of (individual servings?) wine. I use those in cooking every now and then (yum ... pot roast and a good red wine in the crock pot!). But, neither of us really LIKE the taste of alcohol, so for us there is no reason to drink it. Plus, I am still nursing and hope to be pregnant soon, so for me it's a no-no anyway. For Shabbat we use grape juice. But we have no problem with people around us drinking a glass of wine with dinner, etc. We do not appreciate nor tolerate drunkeness though, and will kindly excuse ourselves from those situations. Maybe when we get older and the kids are no longer attached to me ;), a nice glass of something red with dinner will be good ... who knows. :)

[Torah]

Everyone seams to agree that moderation is the key. OK,



What is “drunkenness” V too much to drink, / being drunk.



1 Tim 3: 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.



John 2: 10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."



And as we see in:

NIV

Det 14: 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and (rejoice).



At Simcha Torah [last day of Sukkot] the Torah is rewind to the beginning. This is how we rejoice with this calibration. In the back of the congregation are tables with bottles of wine and small cups at each table. [One small table for each Family, also grape juice for small children and them who want grape juice] We start with music playing and all dancing around the Torah that someone is holding & dancing with in the center of the room. Music stops and all dances to the back of the building where the head of the family pours each member of his/her family a cup of wine. We say the Kiddush, and then say “to life”. Then we go back and rewind the Torah to designated place and start all over. We do this 7 times. The 7th time we dance with the Torah around the building out side.

[Down the street at the Orthodox Synagogue they have BYOB strong drink.]





As I see it drunkenness is a state of being drunk all the time. There are times [I] believe, when we can get lightheaded, felling good, drunk and have not “sin”.

[Bracy]

What are your thoughts on drinking Wine, Beer, strong drink.?

If drinking wine is inherently sinful, then how could the Israelites have offered it to HaShem in His Temple?

Numbers 18:12: All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee.

Numbers 15:10: And thou shalt bring for a drink offering half an hin of wine, [for] an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

[Tishri1]

Torah forbids liquor only to the nazir

we are admonished to not become drunkards - but we are also admonished to enjoy intoxicating drink as well... as has been said... moderation....

just because scripture denounces drunkenness does not support abstinence from drinking intoxicating drink --- any more than the denouncement of gluttony supports the abstinence of food ;)I know we're just being practicle because "we were teens not too long ago" it is just a time in our lives to support our son, there are other things we are doing/not doing as well...believe me we have had plenty of JOY before ....(see the subliminal message even in the Torah...not that it's bad, but maybe our pre 21 year old needs a little help up the ladder of maturity)

[Torah]

I might get a bunch of you mad at me on this but pleas listen with somewhat of an open mine. Young people and alcohol drink.

Have you ever heard the saying? “Curiosity killed the cat” This is a true saying. you put a bag or box on the floor and a cat hast to see what is inside.

Our children are the same way, Years back was a TV show called

“The Art link letter show” And they did funny stuff with kids. This one show I remember they had taken a closed box into a room full of kids and told them not to open the box and look inside. Then they left the 5 kids alone. It wasn’t long befor Curiosity got the better of them and they all looked into the box. “Alcohol drink is that box” And even if it is not in your house it is part of the world and they will read about it in there Bible. And children, young people & young adults do get curios about Alcohol drink and they will open that box and it can be in a bad way or with rejoicing with the L-rd, moderation, and supervision.

Most young kids do not like the taste of Alcohol drink. But when they get about 11 or 12 they start to get curious about Alcohol drinks. so! When my kids started asking. I would put a small wine glass at their table setting if they wanted and with dinner they got a small amount of wine. This come more into focus when we do the blessing over the wine at the feast days and Shabbat. At one point in my two sons life, one17 the other 19 asked me what it felt like to get [excuse the exasperation] “Dog face drunk”.

Well, I got a bottle of Tequila and my boys got “throwing up drunk”.

Some of you would think how awful. But I would like to point something out.


1) They were with there Father who took care of them, I saw that no harm come to them & got them into bed safe.


2) They were not driving like most kids do when they open that box because there not at home when they try it.


3) It ended there Curiosity and they never wanted to know what the fuss was about being “Dog face drunk”


My boys are now 24 & 22 and they never got “Dog face” again, and they have a well understanding of moderation. My 3 girls [after watching their 2 brothers get “dog face”] did not need to experience the pleaser of being [dog face]. To know it was not something they wanted to experience.

My boys in the past and now, will sit down and have a beer, popcorn, & football with me. And with all my children it has never been a big issue. My kids have told me; that there friends from congregation [whose parents try to keep the big secret from their kids] want to know what’s in the box. And I have got into trouble talking to the parents about this. I have worked with “Church youth” for 8 years and have found that kids will get into that box one way or another. Don't make it a big deal.
Shalom.

[Bruce101]

I might get a bunch of you mad at me on this but pleas listen with somewhat of an open mine. Young people and alcohol drink.

Have you ever heard the saying? “Curiosity killed the cat” This is a true saying. you put a bag or box on the floor and a cat hast to see what is inside.

Our children are the same way, Years back was a TV show called

“The Art link letter show” And they did funny stuff with kids. This one show I remember they had taken a closed box into a room full of kids and told them not to open the box and look inside. Then they left the 5 kids alone. It wasn’t long befor Curiosity got the better of them and they all looked into the box. “Alcohol drink is that box” And even if it is not in your house it is part of the world and they will read about it in there Bible. And children, young people & young adults do get curios about Alcohol drink and they will open that box and it can be in a bad way or with rejoicing with the L-rd, moderation, and supervision.

Most young kids do not like the taste of Alcohol drink. But when they get about 11 or 12 they start to get curious about Alcohol drinks. so! When my kids started asking. I would put a small wine glass at their table setting if they wanted and with dinner they got a small amount of wine. This come more into focus when we do the blessing over the wine at the feast days and Shabbat. At one point in my two sons life, one17 the other 19 asked me what it felt like to get [excuse the exasperation] “Dog face drunk”.

Well, I got a bottle of Tequila and my boys got “throwing up drunk”.

Some of you would think how awful. But I would like to point something out.


1) They were with there Father who took care of them, I saw that no harm come to them & got them into bed safe.


2) They were not driving like most kids do when they open that box because there not at home when they try it.


3) It ended there Curiosity and they never wanted to know what the fuss was about being “Dog face drunk”


My boys are now 24 & 22 and they never got “Dog face” again, and they have a well understanding of moderation. My 3 girls [after watching their 2 brothers get “dog face”] did not need to experience the pleaser of being [dog face]. To know it was not something they wanted to experience.

My boys in the past and now, will sit down and have a beer, popcorn, & football with me. And with all my children it has never been a big issue. My kids have told me; that there friends from congregation [whose parents try to keep the big secret from their kids] want to know what’s in the box. And I have got into trouble talking to the parents about this. I have worked with “Church youth” for 8 years and have found that kids will get into that box one way or another. Don't make it a big deal.
Shalom.

Ya know, that is a good point.
I know of plenty of folks that "went crazy" getting in the box when they were able.
My son got a full ride to Clemson College, and lost it because he couldn't control his drinking. As soon as he came back home he cooled his heels, rededicated his life, and now has a beer every now and then and the box has no appeal. He just had to experience it.

Bruce

[Mikhail]

I might get a bunch of you mad at me on this but pleas listen with somewhat of an open mine. Young people and alcohol drink.

Have you ever heard the saying? “Curiosity killed the cat” This is a true saying. you put a bag or box on the floor and a cat hast to see what is inside.

Our children are the same way, Years back was a TV show called

“The Art link letter show” And they did funny stuff with kids. This one show I remember they had taken a closed box into a room full of kids and told them not to open the box and look inside. Then they left the 5 kids alone. It wasn’t long befor Curiosity got the better of them and they all looked into the box. “Alcohol drink is that box” And even if it is not in your house it is part of the world and they will read about it in there Bible. And children, young people & young adults do get curios about Alcohol drink and they will open that box and it can be in a bad way or with rejoicing with the L-rd, moderation, and supervision.

Most young kids do not like the taste of Alcohol drink. But when they get about 11 or 12 they start to get curious about Alcohol drinks. so! When my kids started asking. I would put a small wine glass at their table setting if they wanted and with dinner they got a small amount of wine. This come more into focus when we do the blessing over the wine at the feast days and Shabbat. At one point in my two sons life, one17 the other 19 asked me what it felt like to get [excuse the exasperation] “Dog face drunk”.

Well, I got a bottle of Tequila and my boys got “throwing up drunk”.

Some of you would think how awful. But I would like to point something out.


1) They were with there Father who took care of them, I saw that no harm come to them & got them into bed safe.


2) They were not driving like most kids do when they open that box because there not at home when they try it.


3) It ended there Curiosity and they never wanted to know what the fuss was about being “Dog face drunk”


My boys are now 24 & 22 and they never got “Dog face” again, and they have a well understanding of moderation. My 3 girls [after watching their 2 brothers get “dog face”] did not need to experience the pleaser of being [dog face]. To know it was not something they wanted to experience.

My boys in the past and now, will sit down and have a beer, popcorn, & football with me. And with all my children it has never been a big issue. My kids have told me; that there friends from congregation [whose parents try to keep the big secret from their kids] want to know what’s in the box. And I have got into trouble talking to the parents about this. I have worked with “Church youth” for 8 years and have found that kids will get into that box one way or another. Don't make it a big deal.
Shalom.

^_^ Very funny and very wise too Italians tend to have wine around much like and although I dabbled with Spirits a bit I only ever got happy drunk on 1 or 2 occasions so I am inclined to be of the opinion to teach moderation and rather than the Draconian Evil Liquer that destroys families type of fear that some preach.
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Gino

[Wags]

If there is a history of alcohol abuse in the family, even one sip can be enough to send a teen on the road to alcoholism. Children who have one parent or grandparent that are alcoholics have a 50% greater chance of themselves becoming alcoholics than the average person wtihout such a family history. If there are two or more parents/grandparents then the risk goes up to 80%.

I used to work with delinquint teens, most started drinking under the age of 10, stealing a few sips from their parents glasses/bottles etc. Most reported enjoying the taste and the feeling it gave them immediately, and actively sought it out from the point of their first drink.

In addition, binge drinking can cause death, even when "supervised" by parents - a coworker of mine lost her youngest son that way. Your liver doesn't mature until about age 22, so heavy drinking before maturity can cause a life time of problems.

[Bracy]

I certainly have no problem with someone who chooses not to drink. But when that person declares it a "sin" for *anyone* to drink "lest they might be tempted to get drunk," that's when I object.

As I see it, this is the creation of a takanah that differs in no way from the takanot of the Rabbis who enacted laws such as prohibitions against swimming "lest one might be tempted to repair a swimming vessel," or prohibitions against clapping the hands, slapping the thighs, or dancing, "lest one might be tempted to repair musical instruments" (Beitzah 36b). I see no difference between the two.

[Tishri1]

If there is a history of alcohol abuse in the family, even one sip can be enough to send a teen on the road to alcoholism. Children who have one parent or grandparent that are alcoholics have a 50% greater chance of themselves becoming alcoholics than the average person wtihout such a family history. If there are two or more parents/grandparents then the risk goes up to 80%.

I used to work with delinquint teens, most started drinking under the age of 10, stealing a few sips from their parents glasses/bottles etc. Most reported enjoying the taste and the feeling it gave them immediately, and actively sought it out from the point of their first drink.

In addition, binge drinking can cause death, even when "supervised" by parents - a coworker of mine lost her youngest son that way. Your liver doesn't mature until about age 22, so heavy drinking before maturity can cause a life time of problems.Wags thats exactly what happens too...I use to steal from my parents liquor cabnet before I ever started going out partying with others...the tempation was there and soo was the example set by my drinking parents who use to give us sips as young kids...I use to steal cigarets from my mom too before I ever smoked with my friends, she made them look good too...then to HELP me mom started to buy them for me(she figured she would at least keep me stay in open communication with her that way....)My dad and his playboy books didn't help me either...all this stuff was at easy reach IN MY HOUSE, and I reach for them before I ever knew what peer pressure was....in fact I became the one on the block pressuring kids to come over to my house and party...the supplies were all there for us...anytime we wanted them. I never went to many parties or dates as I think about it now....so I wasn't getting much pressure out there...

By faith I am trusting ABBA to watch over my 18 year old when he is out of my care and doing the best my heart knows how when he is in my care....that's all...