Compline?

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Last night I went to the Compline for the Holy Theotokos, and I was absolutely moved to tears with it's beauty. :crosseo:

Anyone know of a website with the text online?

Or perhaps a good Orthodox Service book?

I have the Service book published by the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of America, but the Compline is not included.

Any tips?

In XC,

Maureen

[Rilian]

Maureen, this (http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/liturgical_texts/PARAKLESIS.asp) is what we do during the Dormition Fast. It's referred to simply as Paraklesis.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[HandmaidenOfGod]

P.S. What would you suggest as a good Orthodox Service/Prayer book?



I have a couple, but always looking for more…

[Greg the byzantine]

I love the Paraklesis, I belive it was a great paraklesis last night
http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/learntochant/paraklesis.asp
This is a the small paraklesis from the GOA website, with links to real audio of the service done by Eikona.

[Rilian]

P.S. What would you suggest as a good Orthodox Service/Prayer book?



I have a couple, but always looking for more…

I use the Jordanville for my own devotions.

[contriteheart]

Sometimes I think I am about ready to take the plunge and ask to become a catechumen, and then I see something like the Paraklesis service or the Akathist and I'm dumbfounded. I really, really don't understand this. So much of this language attributes to Mary things that scripture attributes to Christ. So much of this sounds like it is exalting Mary almost to the level of the Trinity.

I really don't get it. I know you often say "we're saying this, but it really means this." I'm a word person, though. My degree is in English. Words are powerful and meaningful to me. If you're saying something, I have to believe that what you are saying is what you mean. I don't think I would ever be comfortable saying those kinds of things about Mary. Does this mean I can never be Orthodox? Help?

With love in Christ,
Grace

[OrthodoxTexan]

I don't think I would ever be comfortable saying those things about Mary. Does this mean I can never be Orthodox? Help?
You must understand that the Paraklesis was made popular at the Great Church in Constantinople. The Panagia was seen as the patron of the city and a protectress of the city during many attempted invasions. When the people of Constantinople would say "Most Holy Theotokos Save Us" it was not meant in a soteriological sense.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Sometimes I think I am about ready to take the plunge and ask to become a catechumen, and then I see something like the Paraklesis service or the Akathist and I'm dumbfounded. I really, really don't understand this. So much of this language attributes to Mary things that scripture attributes to Christ. So much of this sounds like it is exalting Mary almost to the level of the Trinity.

I really don't get it. I know you often say "we're saying this, but it really means this." I'm a word person, though. My degree is in English. Words are powerful and meaningful to me. If you're saying something, I have to believe that what you are saying is what you mean. I don't think I would ever be comfortable saying those things about Mary. Does this mean I can never be Orthodox? Help?

With love in Christ,
Grace

Absolutely not! Let me share you "my story" with the Theotokos, and maybe it will help you. :)

I was raised by a father who was Orthodox, and a mother who was Baptist. So every other weekend I was going to a different church. In my teen years and early twenties, I spent a lot of time at the Baptist Church. I was attracted to the Contemporary Christian music, the Youth Group, and all of that "flashy" stuff.

Finally, last year for a bunch of reasons, I came home to Orthodoxy once and for all.

But being I had spent so much time in the Baptist Church, I had a lot of hang-ups about praying to the saints, and especially praying to Mary. I mean that's what Catholics did, and as a Baptist I was taught that was definitely wrong!

I began to do some reading about praying to the saints, and I also began to pray to God about it, because I wanted to *know* the truth.

I slowly began to ask the Mother of God to reveal herself to me. What my relationship was supposed to be with her and why I had so many hang-ups about it.

What started in April took me until October to finally understand in my heart.

It was on the Feast of the Protection of the Holy Theotokos (http://web.mit.edu/jsolof/www/Sermons/protection.html) on October 1 that I finally got it. It finally "clicked" in my heart. When I heard about the origins of the Feast, I KNEW that it was not only okay to pray to the Holy Theotokos and to honor her, but that I should start right away! Here's a brief description of the feast (click on above link for more info):

In 911, in the reign of the Emperor Leo the Wise, barbarians from what we would now call Russia were besieging the capital city of Constantinople. It looked as if at any moment, the city would fall. People gathered in the Blachernae Church of the Theotokos, where her robe, veil, and belt were treasured, and celebrated the services of the All-Night Vigil.

One of those keeping vigil was St. Andrew, a former-slave whom, after receiving a revelation of God, became a Fool-for-Christ. What is "Foolishness-for-Christ"? It is a uniquely severe expression of asceticism: beyond monks, who flee the world; beyond hermits, who flee even the community of the monastery; Fools-for-Christ flee even the protection and dignity of human rationality. They feign insanity, they "play the fool", in order to deny themselves any other comfort than Christ, any other reward than His Kingdom. Because of this -- because they have rejected the rules and regulations of human relationships -- they are able to see things that others can't see, and even more important, say things that others can't say. One example: St. Andrew used to take whatever money passers-by would give him, and give it in turn to the beggars of the city. But as he'd give it out, he'd mock them so they wouldn't thank him for his generosity, but would abuse him instead!

At 4 AM, standing in the back of the church, St. Andrew and his disciple, Epiphanius, saw a vision of the Theotokos: she entered the church, proceeding to the center, where she knelt and prayed for a long time, in tears. She was surrounded by St. John the Theologian, St. John the Baptist, the other Apostles and Prophets, Sainted Monks and Nuns, Hierarchs and Priests, and ranks of Angels. She prayed again, before the altar. Finally, rising, she took off her veil -- in Russian, the word "Pokrov" means both "veil" and "protection", from which we have the name of this Feast -- and held it suspended over all the faithful, literally protecting them beneath her veil. Saint Andrew asked Epiphanius, "Do you see how the Queen and Lady of all is praying for the whole world?" Epiphanius replied, "Yes, Father; I see it and stand in dread." These two, alone, saw the vision -- but everyone in the church felt her presence and the comfort of her protection. Not long after, for no explicable reason, the barbarians turned around and left the city.

This is the origin of the Feast of the Protection. :bow:

I also realized that the reason I was pushing away the Holy Mother is because of hang-ups I had with my own mother. Once I let those hang-ups go, not only did I develop a closer relationship with the Theotokos, I developed a greater relationship with my mother.

Ever since then, I have felt a very special closeness with the Theotokos, and have no problems calling on her for help.

It's something that takes time.

It's not easy, I know. The Protestants drill in us that we don't *need* this, and that it is idolatry, but it isn't.

It simply is experiencing worship the way God intended. :crosseo:

What also helped me was this simple fact:

The Orthodox Church has been doing basically the same thing since 33 A.D. The Church Fathers are not stupid people. (They are FAR more educated in these things than I EVER will be!) They examine and re-examine Church Doctrine ALL the time. Anything that is false gets kicked out. (i.e. Arian, Gnosticism, bad babka ;) )

The Reformation didn't happen until the 1500's -- over 1400 years AFTER Orthodoxy started. You're gonna tell me in 1400 years the Church Father's didn't figure out that praying to the Theotokos was wrong? (Remember the Bible AND the Liturgy as we know them today had been written at this point.)

I'm sorry, but the facts and history are on the side of Orthodoxy. That was enough for me.

I hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

[Monica, child of God]

Hi Grace,
(yeah, yeah I am supposed to away...I'm weak alright!)

I think where some of the hang up comes from is somehow seeing Mary's "help" as something apart from Christ's help. The only way that Mary can help or "save" us is by asking her Son. That's it. If we ask for Mary's prayers it is because we have faith in Christ and His Grace. Remember, no other human in history has a relationship quite like that of Mary with God: she is the only human chosen by God the Father to bear God the Son through being overshadowed by the Holy Spirit.

In reading the text of the Paraklesis, you will see that we actually go back and forth between praising God for His faithfulness, asking for His help and asking Mary's intercession.

TO GOD:
The apse of the heavens,
Are you O Lord, Fashioner,
And the Holy Church's great Founder,
Likewise establish me,
In constant love for You
For You're the height of our longing;
Support of the faithful,
The only Friend of all.

TO THE THEOTOKOS:
Most Holy Theotokos save us.

A protection and shelter,
I have with you in my life,
You, the Theotokos and the Virgin,
Pilot me towards your port; (note: this means being with CHRIST!)
For you are the cause,
The cause of that which is good, (note: CHRIST!)
Support of the faithful,
The only all-praised One.

Most Holy Theotokos save us.

I entreat you, O Virgin,
Disperse the storm of my grief,
and the soul's most inward confusion,
Scatter it far from me;
You are the Bride of God,
For you have brought forth the Christ,
the Prince of Peace;
Only, all-blameless One.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Having brought forth unto us
the cause and giver of good, (note: CHRIST!)
From your great abundance of kindness,
Pour forth upon us all;
For all is possible,
For you who carried the Christ,
Who is mighty in power;
You, who are blessed of God.

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen

With most serious ailments,
And with the passions so dark,
I am being tested, O Virgin,
Come and bring help to me;
For I have known of you,
That you are without fail
the endless treasure of cures,
Only all-blameless One.

Deliver us,
All of your servants, from danger, O Theotokos;
After God, we all flee to you,
For shelter and covering,
As an unshakable wall and our protection.

Turn to me,
In your good favor, all praise-worthy Theotokos;
Look upon my grave illnesses,
Which painfully sting my flesh
and heal the cause of my soul's pain and suffering.

All we are doing is praising God and asking for Mary's prayers with some flowery language thrown in.

Monica

[The Prokeimenon!]

If you look at the service as a whole- there are two spots where we sing hymns stating:

Preserve and save, O Theotokos, thy servants from every danger. After God, do all of us for refuge flee unto thee. A firm rampart art thou and our protection.

In other words- when we ask the Theotokos to save us, it's in this context. After God, we turn to our friends and ask them to help us, even save us, from danger and despair. The Theotokos is the foremost of our "friends."

Why her? the last of these verses sums it up pretty well:

O spotless one, who inexpressibly in the last days by a word brought forth The Word, do thou make request of Him, as one who hath motherly boldness.

She's His mother. (And a Jewish mother, at that ;) ) She has boldness before our God (as can be seen at the wedding at Cana) and we ask her to pray fervantly for us- to "save us" if you will (and we will) from dangers and sadness by her prayers to her Son and God.

I know it's easy to understand the logic, but hard to swallow the bold language. Repeatedly chanting "Most Holy Theotokos, save us!" is quite an earful for alot of people (as it was for me for a long time.)

Hope this makes sense,
Moses

[The Prokeimenon!]

ps- I remember being forced to go "soul winning" (the thought of which still makes me ill) when I was a Baptist. When we got back people would say "how many people did you save tonight" and things like that. Somebody would always say "I saved 3 people- well- er- God saved them, but I led them to Christ." :)

So I'm very much used to the idea that it's bad to ask for others to "save" us. Remember, though, we're not asking her to save us like Christ has saved us.

Moses

[Carrye]

Remember, though, we're not asking her to save us like Christ has saved us.

And that one word is key! We are not asking Mary to save us in the same way that Christ does.

I think that's often one hang up for Protestants - that in theological discussions, words are taken as being univocal - as only having one meaning. That's simply not the way language works, as you know better than I. You're right in saying that words are meaningful. But they're only meaningful in context.

I could say, "GraceMercyPeace, save me!" and I might be drowning. I don't think you're God, but you can help prevent my harm in your own way. That is what we're doing with Mary.

[choirfiend]

also, there's a whole lot of context that's missing...People usually talk about their favorite services, or ones that are different, individual, uncommon...Church life isn't spent serving a Paraklesis every night...Even the beautiful hymns of praise and prayer to the Theotokos belong in context with the regular church services of the year.