The AntiChrist...

[88Devin07]

Why is it that sometimes I wonder if I am the AntiChrist? With all my posts, my thoughts, my opinions, my dislike of a Republic and like for a Monarchy, etc... My inability to love others like they were family and friends, my inability to tell God is talking to me, my inability to defeat most temptations, etc... It just makes me think that I'm like an Antichrist...

[88Devin07]

How could Mary be sinless when no one else, not even the Apostles were sinless?

Someone said Mary is an example for us... But i'm beginning to doubt that humans can be sinless or lead sinless lives... I don't think anyone can be sinless at anytime in their life...

[drewmeister2]

Devin,

Don't worry about it too much. We all have our shortcomings. Think of the alcoholics out there who rape women and abuse kids, their sins I'm sure are probably greater than yours. They seem a billion times more likely to be the Anti-Christ than you do. Just because you have doubts, doesn't mean you are an anti-Christ. I doubt things all the time, but its usually because of lack of understanding. That isn't your fault. It's just a good opportunity to learn, in my opinion :). And more importantly, it's a good opportunity to strengthen your faith in God.

Just my thoughts. God bless! :)

[88Devin07]

I didn't mean I think I am him... I feel like I'm like him...

[InnerPhyre]

Luke 18: 10"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' 13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' 14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

We are weak. God is strong and merciful. Follow the example of the contrite tax collector and keep asking God to have mercy and to help you overcome these things.

[drewmeister2]

Even then, I think my post still applies :)

[choirfiend]

Because antiChrist means "instead of Christ" and we all do plenty of things that are instead of seeking God with every action, word, and thought.

[drewmeister2]

Because antiChrist means "instead of Christ" and we all do plenty of things that are instead of seeking God with every action, word, and thought.

Yes, but there is only one "Anti-Christ".

[choirfiend]

That's one take on it...Not necessarily the only Orthodox one...

[drewmeister2]

Hehe, true. I've actually heard that the Pope (not necessarily Benedict XVI) might be an anti-Christ, from the Malachi prophecies (how much trust does one place in them, I don't know). According to the prophecies however, the next pope is the anti-Christ (so, therefore, if the prophecy is correct, Benedict isn't the anti-Christ; you don't have to freak out yet ;)).

[InnerPhyre]

John says that all those who deny Jesus is the Christ are anti-Christs. As for "the" Anti-Christ...um...pssst....Nero.

[88Devin07]

Achem... Nero isn't the Anti-Christ... He is an anti-christ... But not THE...

[88Devin07]

and how much trust does everyone here (including our Catholic friends) put on the Malachi predictions? I was sorta amazed when I saw them...

[InnerPhyre]

I dunno about that, man. Neron Casear works out to the number of the beast. He killed Christians on a huge scale....committed suicide by stabbing himself in the neck. Then emperor Domitian took power later that century and people started calling him "nero reborn." He declared himself a god and forced everyone to worship him, and those who would put a mark of worship on their togas. Those without the mark were exiled or killed. This was also at the same time John was writing Revelation in exile. Food for thought.

[InnerPhyre]

As for the Malachi prophesies....I dunno....that's the sorta thing that can go either way. JPII's "Labor of the Sun" really makes you think though, since he was born, and passed away on days with solar eclipses.

With all prophesies and private revelations like that, I tend to look at them, consider them, even entertain them, but refrain from putting my faith in them.

[gzt]

I don't put any stock in that stuff.

Yes, each one of us is the chief of sinners. Don't be an exhibitionist about it.

[88Devin07]

But is that an Orthodox teaching InnerPhyre?

The Anti-Christ will be from the tribe of Dan... Nero wasn't from the tribe of Dan, and neither was Domition...

The Anti-Christ won't commit suicide, he will be assassinated, then Satan will be given the ability (by God who is in control of all) to resurrect the Anti-Christ.

InnerPhyre, if it isn't an Orthodox teaching, it's false.

[Photini]

But is that an Orthodox teaching InnerPhyre?

The Anti-Christ will be from the tribe of Dan... Nero wasn't from the tribe of Dan, and neither was Domition...

The Anti-Christ won't commit suicide, he will be assassinated, then Satan will be given the ability (by God who is in control of all) to resurrect the Anti-Christ.

InnerPhyre, if it isn't an Orthodox teaching, it's false.
Devin, yes, what Innerphyre has stated is one of the "layers" of interpretation accepted by Orthodoxy.

[drewmeister2]

InnerPhyre, if it isn't an Orthodox teaching, it's false.

That's only true for doctrinal stuff. For speculative stuff, like about the afterlife and whatnot, anything can be true, really, since we just don't know (we do know that Heaven and Hell exist, but what goes on in Heaven and Hell exactly, who knows). So the RC can say something speculative, and it doesn't mean it is wrong, even though the EO might not give the same speculation. Why? It's because we just don't know, really.

God bless! :)

[Dust and Ashes]

Isn't there a prophecy about the Pope who chooses the name Peter II being bad news, though not necessarily the anti-Christ? Not saying that there is anything to that or not, just wondering since I've heard it but never read about the source of that particular prophecy.

[88Devin07]

forgiven, that is part of the Malachi prophecy, Pope Peter II will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan and the Anti-Christ... Of course, that is from a prophecy that may/may not be true...

Ok then, it could be correct... But Innerphyre, are you suggesting there will be no future antichrist?

But like I said, the Anti-Christ will be from the tribe of Dan, he also will be the 2nd part of the Unholy Trinity. There will also be a false prophet accompyaning (sp? lol) him.

Also, the "Mark" will be on their right hands/forehead right? Thten "togas" are out of the question.

Oh and BTW, the Roman Empire wasn't a world empire, it wasn't even all of the known world (since that extended far into Africa and also far into Asia...)

[drewmeister2]

forgiven, that is part of the Malachi prophecy, Pope Peter II will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan and the Anti-Christ... Of course, that is from a prophecy that may/may not be true...

Ok then, it could be correct... But Innerphyre, are you suggesting there will be no future antichrist?

But like I said, the Anti-Christ will be from the tribe of Dan, he also will be the 2nd part of the Unholy Trinity. There will also be a false prophet accompyaning (sp? lol) him.

Also, the "Mark" will be on their right hands/forehead right? Thten "togas" are out of the question.

Oh and BTW, the Roman Empire wasn't a world empire, it wasn't even all of the known world (since that extended far into Africa and also far into Asia...)

Lol, Devin, I think InnerPhyre was making a joke. Nero was such a terrorist to Christians in his day, that he could almost be seen as the anti-Christ. But I think InnerPhyre meant it as a joke. Of course there is a future anti-Christ, I don't think Inner was denying that. :)

[88Devin07]

lol ok

[drewmeister2]

Hehe, I know InnerPhyre, we IM alot......that's why I made the assumption I did about what he said (since I kinda know him better) ;).

[88Devin07]

Ok... Cause I'm someone who can't distinguish jokes from reality.

[drewmeister2]

Lol, me too! I do it all the time, don't worry :) I know how you feel :)

[The Prokeimenon!]

Think of the alcoholics out there who rape women and abuse kids, their sins I'm sure are probably greater than yours.

For the record- not all alcoholics are rapists and child abusers...

Moses

(it seems like alcoholism is popping up alot here lately...)

[The Prokeimenon!]

Al Franken had a funny story once- he heard Jerry Falwell say that the Antichrist was a Jewish male who is alive today. So when Al and Jerry were on a show together, Al asked Jerry if he (Al) was the Antichrist. :D

Moses

[drewmeister2]

For the record- not all alcoholics are rapists and child abusers...

Moses

(it seems like alcoholism is popping up alot here lately...)

:confused: I never said they were, I was just using an example that some alcoholics do this. Of course not all do it.

[xristos.anesti]

Who knows now who it will be, but God; if it will be and how it will be, the time of the end, the time of consumation?...


The point is that by partaking in precious Mystery of mysteries, the Holy Eucharist we grow; we grow in faith, we grow in knowledge.

The more we grow the more we are given. This comes through virtues. For by virtues we prove that we are what we say we stand for.

God gives to those who want to be given. God gives to those who really do His will. God give to those who live for Him. God gives to whom He wants to give.

Right now, the acts of this world are still being developed. Right now we need to now that God has won and that something will happen and when it does the Victor will be with His and will protect them as He always did. Right now that is all we need to know.

When the time comes, the worthy will know.

Pray and fast, live and do so that we might be worthy.

[The Prokeimenon!]

:confused: I never said they were, I was just using an example that some alcoholics do this. Of course not all do it.

I should have been clearer- I didn't mean to accuse you of saying that, but I can see how I came out that way. Please forgive me.

Moses

[drewmeister2]

Im sorry I interpreted you that way! Please forgive me! :(

[The Prokeimenon!]

God forgives us all :clap:

Moses

[Vasya Davidovich]

So, where can I take a look at these Malachi prophesies?

I have heard it said that for very Christian, his (or her) own end-times (eschaton) comes at the end of their lives, which is unknown. Therefore, we are to be always prepared. Of course, there is still the Eschaton, likewise at a time unknown, but given that the one (our death) is guaranteed to approach within our lifetimes, and the other not, we should focus on the one that's immediate.

Food for thought.

[drewmeister2]

www.crystalinks.com/papalprophecies.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/papalprophecies.html) :)

[choirfiend]

Drew,

It is actually a very normal thing to relate end-times things in Revelations and connecting it to what was the current situation at the time St. John was writing...Inner Phyre might not have been joking, neither did I assume he was.

[tdcharles]

forgiven, that is part of the Malachi prophecy, Pope Peter II will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan and the Anti-Christ... Of course, that is from a prophecy that may/may not be true...
Since some people are talking about the Malachi prophecies, let's bear in mind a few facts.

1. The last part about Peter the Roman was probably added at a later date by a publisher.
2. Even if that part was authentic, it didn't have a number, meaning there could be any number of popes before him.
3. Even the supposed prophecy's authenticity is questionable. We are supposed to believe that he wrote them down and they then got locked up for over 400 years in some secret archive in Rome. I don't think it's coincidental that the supposed prophecies are less vague when they refer to Popes that pre-date its publishing.
4. Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth shall pass: but my words shall not pass. But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone. (Do not trust any private prophecies regarding the end of the world, because no one, not even the angels, know when that day will come, except God.)

[xristos.anesti]

Homilies III and IV on 2 Thessalonians of our father among saints, John Chrysostom by the mercy of God, Patriarch of Constantinople the New Rome.

2 Thess. 2, 3-12.


Ver. 3, 4 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.iiThess.2.html#iiThess.2.3%20Bible:2Thess.2.4). “Let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.”

Here he discourses concerning the Antichrist, and reveals great mysteries. What is “the falling away?” He calls him Apostasy, as being about to destroy many, and make them fall away. So that if it were possible, He says, the very Elect should be offended. (From Matt. xxiv. 24 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.Matt.24.html#Matt.24.24).) And he calls him “the man of sin.” For he shall do numberless mischiefs, and shall cause others to do them. But he calls him “the son of perdition,” because he is also to be destroyed. But who is he? Is it then Satan? By no means; but some man, that admits his fully working in him. For he is a man. “And exalteth himself against all that is called God or is worshiped.” For he will not introduce idolatry, but will be a kind of opponent to God; he will abolish all the gods, and will order men to worship him instead of God, and he will be seated in the temple of God, not that in Jerusalem only, but also in every Church. “Setting himself forth,” he says; he does not say, saying it, but endeavoring to show it. For he will perform great works, and will show wonderful signs.

Ver. 5 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.iiThess.2.html#iiThess.2.5). “Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?”

Seest thou that it is necessary continually to say the same things, and to enlarge upon them in the same words? For behold, they heard him saying these things when present, and again they had need to be reminded of them. For as when they had heard concerning afflictions, “For verily,” he says, “when we were with you, we told you beforehand that we are to suffer affliction” (1 Thess. iii. 4 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.iThess.3.html#iThess.3.4).); they nevertheless forgot it, and he confirms them again by letters; so also having heard concerning the Coming of Christ, they again needed letters to compose them. He therefore reminds them, showing that he speaks of nothing strange, but what he had always said.

For as in the case of husbandmen, the seeds are indeed cast into the earth once for all, yet do not constantly remain, but require much preparation withal, and if they do not break up the earth, and cover over the seeds sown, they sow for the birds that gather grain; so we also, unless by constant remembrance we cover over what has been sown, have but cast it all into the air. For both the devil carries it away, and our sloth destroys it, and the sun dries it up, and the rain washes it away, and the thorns choke it: so that it is not sufficient after once sowing it to depart, but there is need of much assiduity, driving off the birds, rooting up the thorns, filling up the stony ground with much earth, checking, and fencing off, and taking away everything injurious. But in the case of the earth all depends upon the husbandman, for it is a lifeless subject, and prepared only to be passive. But in the spiritual soil it is quite otherwise. All is not the teachers’ part, but half at least, if not more, that of the disciples. It is our part indeed to cast the seed, but yours to do the things spoken for your recollection, by your works to show the fruits, to pull up the thorns by the roots.

For wealth truly is a thorn, bearing no fruit, both uncomely to the sight, and unpleasant for use, injuring those that meddle with it, not only not itself bearing fruit, but even hindering that which was shooting forth. Such is wealth. It not only does not bear eternal fruit but it even hinders those who wish to gain it. Thorns are the food of irrational camels; they are devoured and consumed by fire, being useful for nothing. Such also is wealth, useful for nothing, but to kindle the furnace, to light up The Day that burns as an oven, to nourish passions void of reason, revenge and anger. For such is also the camel that feeds on thorns. For it is said by those who are acquainted with such things, that there is no animal so implacable, so sulky and revengeful, as a camel. Such is wealth. It nourishes the unreasonable passions of the soul but it pierces and wounds the rational, as is the case with thorns. This plant is hard and rough, and grows up of itself.

Let us see how it grows up, that we may root it out. It grows in places that are precipitous, stony and dry, where there is no moisture. When therefore anyone is rough and precipitous, that is unmerciful, the thorn grows in him. But when the sons of husbandmen wish to root them up, they do it not with iron. How then? Having set fire to it, they in that way extract all the bad quality of the land. For since it is not enough to cut away the upper part, whilst the root remains below, nor even to extirpate the root, (for it remains in the earth from its bad quality, and, as when some pestilence has assailed the body, there are still left the remains of it,) the fire from above, drawing up all that moisture of the thorns, like some poison, extracts it by means of the heat from the bowels of the earth. For as the cupping glass placed upon the part draws all the disorder to itself, so also the fire draws off all the base quality that was in the thorns, and makes the land pure.

On what account then do I say these things? Because it behoves you to purge off all affection for riches. With us also there is a fire that draws this bad quality from the soul; I mean that of the Spirit. This if we let work on them, we shall be able not only to dry up the thorns, but also the humor from them, since if they be deeply fixed, all is rendered vain. For mark, has a rich man entered here, or also a rich woman? She does not regard how she shall hear the oracles of God, but how she shall make a show, how she shall sit with pomp, how with much glory, how she shall surpass all other women in the costliness of her garments, and render herself more dignified both by her dress, and look, and gait. And all her care and concern is, Did such a woman see me? did she admire me? Is my beauty handsomely set off? so that her garments may not rot, nor be rent; and about this is all her care. In like manner also the rich man enters, meaning to exhibit himself to the poor man, and to strike him with awe by the garments which are about him, and by the number of his slaves, who also stand round, driving off the crowd. But he from his great pride does not condescend even to do this but considers it a work so unworthy of a gentleman, that although excessively puffed up, he cannot bear to do it, but commits it to his slaves. For to do this requires truly servile and impudent manners. Then when he is seated, the cares of his house immediately intrude themselves, distracting him on every side. The pride that possesses his soul overflows. He thinks that he does a favor both to us, and to the people, and perhaps even to God, because he has entered into the house of God. But he who is thus inflamed, how shall he ever be cured?

Tell me then, if any one should go to the shop of a physician, and not ask a favor of the physician, but think that he was doing him a favor, and declining to request a medicine for his wound, should concern himself about his garments; would he go away having received any benefit? I think not indeed. But, with your leave, I will tell you the cause of all these things. They think when they enter in here, that they enter into our presence, they think that what they hear they hear from us. They do not lay to heart, they do not consider, that they are entering into the presence of God, that it is He who addresses them. For when the Reader standing up says, “Thus saith the Lord,” and the Deacon stands and imposes silence on all, he does not say this as doing honor to the Reader, but to Him who speaks to all through him. If they knew that it was God who through His prophet speaks these things, they would cast away all their pride. For if when rulers are addressing them, they do not allow their minds to wander, much less would they, when God is speaking. We are ministers, beloved. We speak not our own things, but the things of God, letters coming from heaven are every day read.

Tell me then, I beseech you, if now, when we are all present some one entered, having a golden girdle, and drawing himself up, and with an air of consequence said that he was sent by the king that is on the earth, and that he brought letters to the whole city concerning matters of importance; would you not then be all turned towards him? Would you not, without any command from a deacon, observe a profound silence? Truly I think so. For I have often heard letters from kings read here. Then if any one comes from a king, you all attend; and does a Prophet come from God, and speak from heaven, and no one attend? Or do you not believe that these things are messages from God? These are letters sent from God; therefore let us enter with becoming reverence into the Churches, and let us hearken with fear to the things here said.

[xristos.anesti]

What do I come in for, you say, if I do not hear some one discoursing? This is the ruin and destruction of all. For what need of a person to discourse? This necessity arises from our sloth. Wherefore any necessity for a homily? All things are clear and open that are in the divine Scriptures; the necessary things are all plain. But because ye are hearers for pleasure’s sake, for that reason also you seek these things. For tell me, with what pomp of words did Paul speak? and yet he converted the world. Or with what the unlettered Peter? But I know not, you say, the things that are contained in the Scriptures. Why? For are they spoken in Hebrew? Are they in Latin, or in foreign tongues? Are they not in Greek? But they are expressed obscurely, you say: What is it that is obscure? Tell me. Are there not histories? For (of course) you know the plain parts, in that you enquire about the obscure. There are numberless histories in the Scriptures. Tell me one of these. But you cannot. These things are an excuse, and mere words. Every day, you say, one hears the same things. Tell me, then, do you not hear the same things in the theaters? Do you not see the same things in the race-course? Are not all things the same? Is it not always the same sun that rises? Is it not the same food that we use? I should like to ask you, since you say that you every day hear the same things; tell me, from what Prophet was the passage that was read? from what Apostle, or what Epistle? But you cannot tell me—you seem to hear strange things. When therefore you wish to be slothful, you say that they are the same things. But when you are questioned, you are in the case of one who never heard them. If they are the same, you ought to know them. But you are ignorant of them.

This state of things is worthy of lamentation—of lamentation and complaint: for the coiner coineth but in vain. For this you ought more especially to attend, because they are the same things, because we give you no labor, nor speak things that are strange or variable. What then, since you say, that those are the same things, but our discourses are not the same things, but we always speak things that are new to you, do you pay heed to these? By no means. But if we say, Why do you not retain even these? “We hear them but once,” you say, “and how can we retain them?” If we say, Why do ye not attend to those other things? “The same things,” you say, “are always said”—and every way these are words of sloth and excuse. But they will not always serve, but there will be a time when we shall lament in vain and without effect. Which may God forbid, and grant that having repented here, and attending with understanding and godly fear to the things spoken, we may both be urged on to the due performance of good works, and may amend our own lives with all diligence, that we may be able to obtain the blessings promised to those who love Him, by the grace and lovingkindness, &c.


“And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming: even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan.”

One may naturally enquire, what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know, why Paul expresses it so obscurely. What then is it that withholdeth, that is, hindereth him from being revealed? Some indeed say, the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman empire, to whom I most of all accede. Wherefore? Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him. And otherwise he ought now to have come, if he was about to come when the gifts ceased; for they have long since ceased. But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end. And he did not say that it will be quickly, although he is always saying it—but what? “that he may be revealed in his own season,” he says,

“For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work.” He speaks here of Nero, as if he were the type of Antichrist. For he too wished to be thought a god. And he has well said, “the mystery”; that is, it worketh not openly, as the other, nor without shame. For if there was found a man before that time, he means, who was not much behind Antichrist in wickedness, what wonder, if there shall now be one? But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is nothing to call for it. So indeed he also says here. “Only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way,” that is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God. For as the kingdoms before this were destroyed, for example, that of the Medes by the Babylonians, that of the Babylonians by the Persians, that of the Persians by the Macedonians, that of the Macedonians by the Romans: so will this also be by the Antichrist, and he by Christ, and it will no longer withhold. And these things Daniel delivered to us with great clearness.

“And then,” he says, “shall be revealed the lawless one.” And what after this? The consolation is at hand. “Whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of His coming, even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan.”

For as fire merely coming on even before its arrival makes torpid and consumes the little animals that are afar off; so also Christ, by His commandment only, and Coming. It is enough for Him to be present, and all these things are destroyed. He will put a stop to the deceit, by only appearing. Then who is this, whose coming is after the working of Satan, “With all display all power,” but nothing true, but for deceit. “And lying wonder,” he says, that is, false, or leading to falsehood.

Ver. 10 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.iiThess.2.html#iiThess.2.10). “And with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that are perishing.”

Why then, you say, did God permit this to be? and what dispensation is this? And what is the advantage of his coming, if it takes place for the ruin of our race? Fear not, beloved, but hear Him saying, “In them that are perishing,” he hath strength, who, even if he had not come, would not have believed. What then is the advantage? That these very men who are perishing will be put to silence. How? Because both if he had come, and if he had not come, they would not have believed in Christ; He comes therefore to convict them. For that they may not have occasion to say, that since Christ said that He was God,—although He nowhere said this openly,—but since those who came after proclaimed it, we have not believed. Because we have heard that there is One God from whom are all things, therefore we have not believed. This their pretext then Antichrist will take away. For when he comes, and comes commanding nothing good, but all things unlawful, and is yet believed from false signs alone, he will stop their mouths. For if thou believest not in Christ, much more oughtest thou not to believe in Antichrist. For the former said that He was sent from the Father, but the latter the contrary. For this reason Christ said, “I am come in My Father’s name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name. him ye will receive.” (John v. 43 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.John.5.html#John.5.43).) But we have seen signs, you say. But many and great signs were also wrought in the case of Christ; much more therefore ought ye to have believed in Him. And yet many things were predicted concerning this one, that he is the lawless one, that he is the son of perdition, that his coming is after the working of Satan. But the contrary concerning the other, that He is the Saviour, that He brings with Him unnumbered blessings.

Ver. 10, 11, 12 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.iiThess.2.html#iiThess.2.10). “For because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; for this cause God will send them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

“That they might be judged.” He does not say, that they might be punished; for even before this they were about to be punished; but “that they might be condemned,” that is, at the dreadful Seat of Judgment, in order that they might be without excuse. “Who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” He calls Christ, “the Love of the Truth.” “For because,” says he, “they received not the love of the truth.” For He was both, and came for the sake of both, both as loving men, and on behalf of things that were true.

“But had pleasure,” he says, “in unrighteousness.” For he came to the destruction of men and to injure them. For what will he not then work? He will change and confound all things, both by his commandments, and by the fear of him. He will be terrible in every way, from his power, from his cruelty, from his unlawful commandments.

But fear not. “In those that perish” he will have his strength. For Elijah too will then come to give confidence to the faithful, and this Christ says; “Elijah cometh, and shall restore all things.” (Matt. xvii. 11 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.Matt.17.html#Matt.17.11).) Therefore it is said, “In the spirit and power of Elijah.” (Luke i. 17 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.Luke.1.html#Luke.1.17).) For he neither wrought signs nor wonders, as Elijah did. For “John,” it is said, “did no miracle, but all things which John spake of this Man were true.” How then was it “in the spirit and power of Elijah”? That is, he will take upon him the same ministry. As the one was the forerunner of His first Coming, so will the other be of His second and glorious Coming, and for this he is reserved. Let us not therefore fear. He has calmed the minds of the hearers. He causes them no longer to think present things dreadful but worthy of thankfulness.

(Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII)

[88Devin07]

Man I have so much hate in me right now...

[tdcharles]

Man I have so much hate in me right now...
If it was because of my post them I'm really sorry. Please don't hate me.

If it wasn't... then disregard this message. :liturgy:

[88Devin07]

THen i'll disregard it ;)

I'm fine now... Some ppl just make me so angry though... It had nothing to do with this site.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Man I have so much hate in me right now...

Devin my brother, may I strongly encourage you to read about the life and writings of St. Seraphim of Sarov (http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/seraphim.htm), and to pray that God takes away this hatred.

God wants us to hate no one.

Pray Psalm 51 (http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2051&version=50), and ask that this anger be removed from your heart.

May the peace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you now and always. :crosseo:

In XC,

Maureen