PDA

View Full Version : Is ELCA a church of Latter Day Lutherans?


Protoevangel
31st July 2005, 03:53 PM
Good article from the Word ALone website.
http://wordalone.org/docs/wa-latter-day-luth.htm


Is ELCA a church of Latter Day Lutherans?
by Pastor Paul Andell, WordAlone Board member, St. James Lutheran Church, Philadelphia, PA

Touring Augsburg College, my alma mater, last fall with a friend, we pulled on the doors of its imposing chapel entry. As we did, two messages were prominent on the glass. One read, “No Firearms Allowed” and the other, ‘this is an institution of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.”

Once inside my friend called me over to read a notice to students posted on the chaplain’s office door. I don’t remember exactly what it said but both of us were appalled. Addressed as an invitation to religious activities, it was politically correct in its absence of anything identifiably Christian. I returned to the chapel in April and the notice was gone. But not the memory of what we’d read. I fear it represents how diluted and, yes, deluded Augsburg has become as an ELCA institution. With its strong heritage as a Lutheran Free school in Minneapolis, it once made no apology for its purpose.

Some notices of theological drift and academic license in the ELCA are posted on doors. Others are written in resolutions like the one I read at the May assembly of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Synod. It was from the synod council, in response to the ELCA Sexual Task Force, recommending that the ELCA Church Council craft resolutions, for presentation to the August Churchwide Assembly, “that represent the voices of the people, along with the authority of scripture, advancements in medicine and an understanding of the church’s role in society, so that the church will be a prophetic voice for the Kingdom of God….in the 21st Century.” Isn’t this the antithesis of what we used to say?

Didn’t we used to say, categorically, as Lutherans, that whenever we sought clarity and weighed scripture, tradition or our contextual situation, the final word in faith and life, always belonged to scripture? And wasn’t that claim central to both our identity and to our credibility among other Christians? I was nurtured, as a Lutheran, to believe this was an accurate posture. I entered into Lutheran ministry commending this confessional witness to all prospective seekers. What has happened to that?

In the open discussion of the ELCA Sexuality Task Force’s Recommendation, one delegate at the May assembly asked, “Can we live with this for a time?” Then, he answered himself by stating “I think we can, as we wait on the Holy Spirit.” As I listened to him and others like Bishop Robert Rimbo, of Detroit, representing the ELCA, tell the delegates, “Sexuality is not a core value” in our tradition, I asked myself, “Who are these people? I hardly recognize them. They must be Latter Day Lutherans.”

Bill Easum, an independent church strategist and consultant, has written my answer. In one of numerous articles, this one in the February 2004 issue of Net Results he writes his “theory of the Munching Sheep.” In it he compares mainline denominations to sheep who have wandered beyond their pastures into unfamiliar territory without knowing it. As a result, “what were once our bedrock beliefs are now only memories.” And, Easum adds, “few in these churches seem to notice or care.” He concludes, “We can’t change bedrock beliefs and have the same faith.”

It seems to me that Jesus Christ is invoked all over the place in the ELCA and like-minded churches, but not expected. Can it be that He, as Lord, isn’t their working faith or agenda? Their church appears to be a work in progress, redefined and prophetic like someone who has retrieved new golden tablets. If so, heresy is in and orthodoxy is out

soccerguy25
27th August 2005, 04:20 PM
What do you mean by Latter Day Lutherans? I'm still not sure after reading your post. With disagreeing with Bishop Rimbo over our "core beliefs" are you trying to say that along side the agreements of the first 4 eccumenical counsels that established the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ, the Augsburg Confession and Apology, is the understanding of what "correct" sexuality is?

Please define for me what you consider are our "core" lutheran beliefs.

Protoevangel
29th August 2005, 12:54 PM
What do you mean by Latter Day Lutherans? I'm still not sure after reading your post. With disagreeing with Bishop Rimbo over our "core beliefs" are you trying to say that along side the agreements of the first 4 eccumenical counsels that established the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ, the Augsburg Confession and Apology, is the understanding of what "correct" sexuality is?

Please define for me what you consider are our "core" lutheran beliefs.
I could forward your question on to the author, Pastor Paul Andell, if you would like. I mean, I could give an answer to your questions, but you sound as if you are really addressing your questions to the author, and not to the bozo who just re-posted the article for your consumption.

ChiRho
2nd September 2005, 08:22 AM
Good article from the Word ALone website.
http://wordalone.org/docs/wa-latter-day-luth.htm


Is ELCA a church of Latter Day Lutherans?
by Pastor Paul Andell, WordAlone Board member, St. James Lutheran Church, Philadelphia, PA

Touring Augsburg College, my alma mater, last fall with a friend, we pulled on the doors of its imposing chapel entry. As we did, two messages were prominent on the glass. One read, “No Firearms Allowed” and the other, ‘this is an institution of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.”

Once inside my friend called me over to read a notice to students posted on the chaplain’s office door. I don’t remember exactly what it said but both of us were appalled. Addressed as an invitation to religious activities, it was politically correct in its absence of anything identifiably Christian. I returned to the chapel in April and the notice was gone. But not the memory of what we’d read. I fear it represents how diluted and, yes, deluded Augsburg has become as an ELCA institution. With its strong heritage as a Lutheran Free school in Minneapolis, it once made no apology for its purpose.

Some notices of theological drift and academic license in the ELCA are posted on doors. Others are written in resolutions like the one I read at the May assembly of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Synod. It was from the synod council, in response to the ELCA Sexual Task Force, recommending that the ELCA Church Council craft resolutions, for presentation to the August Churchwide Assembly, “that represent the voices of the people, along with the authority of scripture, advancements in medicine and an understanding of the church’s role in society, so that the church will be a prophetic voice for the Kingdom of God….in the 21st Century.” Isn’t this the antithesis of what we used to say?

Didn’t we used to say, categorically, as Lutherans, that whenever we sought clarity and weighed scripture, tradition or our contextual situation, the final word in faith and life, always belonged to scripture? And wasn’t that claim central to both our identity and to our credibility among other Christians? I was nurtured, as a Lutheran, to believe this was an accurate posture. I entered into Lutheran ministry commending this confessional witness to all prospective seekers. What has happened to that?

In the open discussion of the ELCA Sexuality Task Force’s Recommendation, one delegate at the May assembly asked, “Can we live with this for a time?” Then, he answered himself by stating “I think we can, as we wait on the Holy Spirit.” As I listened to him and others like Bishop Robert Rimbo, of Detroit, representing the ELCA, tell the delegates, “Sexuality is not a core value” in our tradition, I asked myself, “Who are these people? I hardly recognize them. They must be Latter Day Lutherans.”

Bill Easum, an independent church strategist and consultant, has written my answer. In one of numerous articles, this one in the February 2004 issue of Net Results he writes his “theory of the Munching Sheep.” In it he compares mainline denominations to sheep who have wandered beyond their pastures into unfamiliar territory without knowing it. As a result, “what were once our bedrock beliefs are now only memories.” And, Easum adds, “few in these churches seem to notice or care.” He concludes, “We can’t change bedrock beliefs and have the same faith.”

It seems to me that Jesus Christ is invoked all over the place in the ELCA and like-minded churches, but not expected. Can it be that He, as Lord, isn’t their working faith or agenda? Their church appears to be a work in progress, redefined and prophetic like someone who has retrieved new golden tablets. If so, heresy is in and orthodoxy is out


A sobering dose of reality. Someone actually is looking around and asking where has my church gone? Nice about the sheep and the pastures. Just muchin' away unaware...yet really, really, really, liking the taste of the grass.

AngelusSax
2nd September 2005, 12:51 PM
This world would be so much better if women were barefoot and pregnant, cooking in the kitchen like they're supposed to be, and if we went around telling others how evil they are without ever looking into a mirror to see our own sinful faces, like in the good ol' days. Oh, and as for sexuality... well let's just make sure to never talk about it, because sex never appears in the Bible. Also, those evil homos are gonna ruin society completely. We gotta watch out for them more than murderers and thieves. After all, who you have sex with is more important than who you kill.

ChiRho
2nd September 2005, 01:01 PM
This world would be so much better if women were barefoot and pregnant, cooking in the kitchen like they're supposed to be, and if we went around telling others how evil they are without ever looking into a mirror to see our own sinful faces, like in the good ol' days. Oh, and as for sexuality... well let's just make sure to never talk about it, because sex never appears in the Bible. Also, those evil homos are gonna ruin society completely. We gotta watch out for them more than murderers and thieves. After all, who you have sex with is more important than who you kill.


Who are you talking about? If you have a problem, name it and address it to someone.


Hopefully it's me.

pmcleanj
3rd September 2005, 10:52 AM
.

AngelusSax
4th September 2005, 05:25 PM
ChiRho,

No specific problem here. Just general attitudes I see that reflect way less of the agape love that Jesus taught and prayed for than what I should be seeing by many love-less, or love-lite Christians.

Discipleship
27th September 2005, 10:20 PM
What do you mean by Latter Day Lutherans? I'm still not sure after reading your post. With disagreeing with Bishop Rimbo over our "core beliefs" are you trying to say that along side the agreements of the first 4 eccumenical counsels that established the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ, the Augsburg Confession and Apology, is the understanding of what "correct" sexuality is?

Please define for me what you consider are our "core" lutheran beliefs.

Bishop Rimbo used to be a pastor at my church. :)

Discipleship
27th September 2005, 10:21 PM
My old church, that is.

SPALATIN
28th September 2005, 03:53 PM
ChiRho,

No specific problem here. Just general attitudes I see that reflect way less of the agape love that Jesus taught and prayed for than what I should be seeing by many love-less, or love-lite Christians.

YOu might find it more prevalent in the Missionary field than here on CF.

AngelusSax
29th September 2005, 10:41 PM
YOu might find it more prevalent in the Missionary field than here on CF.

I don't doubt that. It's a sad, sad state.