Interesting timeline of MJ

[Higher Truth]

http://www.israelinprophecy.org/live_site/english/time-line_of-famous_Jews.html

[Charles YTK]

This looks interesting.

I noticed a few years back that several established Christian denominations were trying to do what is like a "Hostile Takeover" of M.J. Our congregation was approached by Baptists under the 7th day baptist, and also by the 4 square church, which is becoming a denomination among nondenoms. What they want is to offer you some financial support and legal protection but you surrender you control of key elements like litergry, curriculm for shul and who the Pastor/Rabbi is, who they rotate when they feel it is time, (like when the group is maturing too fast). They also require you to sign the Federal document for tax exempt status. When you do this the Federal Goverment becomes the new owner of your chrch in case of default, and they require you to have appointed auditors who report on membership, things taught, money collected, expenses. This gives the Federal goverment complete control legally even though most churches do not realize this or do not believe it could ever be exercised.

MJ is under attack on several fronts but most do not realize it.

Charles

[Henaynei]

MJ is under attack on several fronts but most do not realize it.

Charles MJism has always been under attack - all committed MJs are deeply aware - those who are becoming committed will also become aware ...

[Charles YTK]

You are correct Hen.

One of these attackes is against the unity of the Gospel which does away with ethnicity divisions and makes one people again out of the faithful as it was for those before the Macabeean revolt. Then any Gentile who wanted to join with Israel, to follow the God of Israel, had only to live with them, have faith in God, turn from sin and idolatry and keep the Torah same as the rest of the natural born Israelites.

That is the same Gospel we have today. One God, One law One people. Not different rules for different people according to their ethnic origins. Paul make the point over and over in his writings that there is no longer any difference between people by class or social, economic or ethnic differences. We are all one in Messiah. The center wall of Particion which divided people by Jew and Gentile was removed. Paul's synagogues where he was overseeing (and the others apostles as well) Jew and Gentiles were equal in status and the same in all practice and life styles. The one and only exception was that a blood born Sons of Abraham was required to circumcise their males on the 8th day because of the eternal covenant with Abraham. For Gentiles this was not required and was not encouraged, because in those days circumcision of Gentiles perpetuated, and strengthened the practice of creating a division between Jew and Gentile. Paul said to require a Gentile to be circumcised built that wall up again. Gentiles are to keep the law, and be fully a part of Israel without having to convert and become ethnically Jews first. Paul fought this division to the death and yet some Messianics just build the wall right back up again by saying Gentiles do not have to obey the commandments, that only Jews have to obey the law.

Charles

[Mikhail]

This looks interesting.

I noticed a few years back that several established Christian denominations were trying to do what is like a "Hostile Takeover" of M.J. Our congregation was approached by Baptists under the 7th day baptist, and also by the 4 square church, which is becoming a denomination among nondenoms. What they want is to offer you some financial support and legal protection but you surrender you control of key elements like litergry, curriculm for shul and who the Pastor/Rabbi is, who they rotate when they feel it is time, (like when the group is maturing too fast). They also require you to sign the Federal document for tax exempt status. When you do this the Federal Goverment becomes the new owner of your chrch in case of default, and they require you to have appointed auditors who report on membership, things taught, money collected, expenses. This gives the Federal goverment complete control legally even though most churches do not realize this or do not believe it could ever be exercised.

MJ is under attack on several fronts but most do not realize it.

Charles

Hi Charles,
so true most do not realise the hidden contracts involved in registering and association it even happens on a local level with membershop contracts where you sign or verbally accept carte blanche rulings at the end of the day of the pastor or eldership regardless of the circumstances, this is part of the reason that incurred the wrath of a local MJ congregation that I was part of and that led to me being ex-communicated and them employing a secutiy guard to amke sure I do not even attend services.

I had not heard of this type of insiduous takeover tactic being used by the smaller denominations but neither does it surprise me.

I am more convinced that starting private house churches is really the way of the future that way no need to allow the Government in and hence not need to compromise the message.

Also when they come to attack the ministry it is not dependant on a building that can be shutdown but can continue to operate house to house.
Shalom,
Mikhail ben Gino

[Higher Truth]

MJism has always been under attack - all committed MJs are deeply aware - those who are becoming committed will also become aware ...

What I have observed over the years, is that the movement is in more danger from those who have decided that they are Messianics, and who have brought in all sorts of radical unscriptural doctrine, than from the outside.

[yod]

I read that page but can't figure out how MJism is under attack?


Except for the 2-House legalism "attack" from the inside, this is mostly a list of accomplishments.


The biggest difficulty is definitions, imo

We've spent many centuries trying to define what is a "jew" but now we've added a sub-catagory of "messianic"?


OY!

[Charles YTK]

I read that page but can't figure out how MJism is under attack?


Except for the 2-House legalism "attack" from the inside, this is mostly a list of accomplishments.


The biggest difficulty is definitions, imo

We've spent many centuries trying to define what is a "jew" but now we've added a sub-catagory of "messianic"?


OY!

Yod,

From the beginning those who believed that Yeshua was the Messiah were identified separately by the non-believing Jews. They were called, the way, Nazarenes, and later Messianics, Christianos. The sub category is really not much different from saying Pharisaical,Rabbinical, Saducean or Escene. Each sect had its own separate doctrine and beliefs. They also had a great deal more in common than what they held as differences. The same is true today. Messianics clearly are more like other Jews than christains. Since those who are considered Messiaic today do not have a ruling Biet Din and since they come from diverse backgrounds, there has been differences. Hopefully when everyone begins to read the scriptures for what they really say instead of their own traditional understanding from Christian churches, then the unity will come together. If not, then when Messiah returns.

Charles