Origin of Satan

[JSynon]

Hello, :wave:

I have been told by Jewish people that Christianity "invented" the person of "Satan". They say that "the adversary" in the Tanach was never one single evil being or a fallen angel. What do you think?

[visionary]

I think the testamony of Yeshua is one to believe. Yeshua said that Satan come and tempted Him. Yeshua discussed the temptations. Yeshua saw Satan fall like lightening. I would saw that Yeshua knew what He was talking about.

[JSynon]

Some people try to allegorize by claiming that the person that tempted Yeshua was Judas Iscariot (and he is the one that fell from heaven like lightning), or they spiritualize it and say that Satan just represents Yeshua's inner struggles. Do you think this is all moot?

[visionary]

If Yeshua thought that then Yeshua would have said so. Yeshua treated Satan as an adversary and recognised him as such. Judas was human, and maybe later possessed with insanity to think he could force Yeshua to do anything contrary to God's Will.

There is some Jewish thought that there is no such thing as Satan. When Jewish thought is in direct conflict with Yeshua, Yeshua wins.

[Henaynei]

to allegorize in preference to the literal meaning is contrary to the Jewish way of studying scripture (granted they wouldn't tend to use Jewish scripture study techniques on what they do not recognize as scripture)...

There is a structure that is applied to scripture study known as PaRDeS which stands for... p's h a t (the literal meaning of the text), remez (its allusions), derush (the homilies that can be derived from it), and sod (its mystical secrets);

[JSynon]

Interesting Henaynei. I've never heard of PaRDeS. :)

[ILY]

I would say Isaiah as well as other prophets along with Yeshua made it known he was an individual fallen being etc...

Shalom

ILY

[JSynon]

Some argue that, when examined in context, Isaiah 14:12-21 is only describing the Babylonian king, not the person of Satan.

I also just remembered somebody teaching that Satan is actually working for God, doing the "dirty work" of God, and is on God's side. I believe they said it was a Jewish concept.

[plum]

for some reason that idea just doean't gel at all with my understanding of G-d's character.......

[Bananna]

Revelation 20



1And I saw an angel descending from the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent who is [the] devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he should not any more deceive the nations until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be loosed for a little time.

4And I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them; and the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God; and those who had not done homage to the beast nor to his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ a thousand years:

5the rest of the dead did not live till the thousand years had been completed. This [is] the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy he who has part in the first resurrection: over these the second death has no power; but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

8and shall go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city: and fire came down [from God] out of the heaven and devoured them.

10And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them.

12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [that] of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which [were] in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which [were] in them; and they were judged each according to their works:

14and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire. 15And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The Devil/Satan is represented by the dragon.
Death and Hades hold the dead and are thrown in the lake of Fire.
The Beast and the False prophet are also thrown in the lake of Fire.

[linssue55]

Hello, :wave:

I have been told by Jewish people that Christianity "invented" the person of "Satan". They say that "the adversary" in the Tanach was never one single evil being or a fallen angel. What do you think?

Well, we know better don't we........

[Henaynei]

Hello, :wave:

I have been told by Jewish people that Christianity "invented" the person of "Satan". They say that "the adversary" in the Tanach was never one single evil being or a fallen angel. What do you think? there are traditions that have grown up in popular defensive Jewish cultural thought that were not the original understandings of the Ancient Fathers of Wisdom and Righteousness. These ideas grew in reaction to the issues and event surrounding Yeshua, the Great Dispersion, the centuries of persecution/pogroms and to the Holocaust.

there is a popular mythology that Jews don't believe in sin either - but the attentive scholar and reader of even contemporary thought knows that is not really true ;)

[JSynon]

there are traditions that have grown up in popular defensive Jewish cultural thought that were not the original understandings of the Ancient Fathers of Wisdom and Righteousness. These ideas grew in reaction to the issues and event surrounding Yeshua, the Great Dispersion, the centuries of persecution/pogroms and to the Holocaust.

That is what I was thinking.