Evanglism

[Antman_05]

Just asking when you guys are talking to people about Christ, do you give them a chose to repent, as in do you say "would you like to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savor." just asking i know what i do but i would like to know what you guys do.

[JJB]

I like to explain Gospel, if they want to hear it. See if they have any questions. Then ask them "Who do you think Jesus is?" Listen to answer. Maybe discuss that some more. Finally, I ask them if they'd like to become a Christian.

Sometimes I don't get beyond the gospel explanation, or no further than Who Do you think Jesus is? I don't push because perhaps I am only being used as a seed planter. Others will come along to water and perhaps yet another for the harvest.

I also pray like the dickens!

[Rick Otto]

I try to be a friendly, christian example. No soapboxing, but no compromising, either.
You'd be surprised how much christian worldview & doctrine can surface in "normal, everyday" conversation. As a matter of fact, it's the ONLY socialy acceptable way of evangelizing co-workers, family & friends. Otherwise they avoid you like the plague. And why should they? You needn't bring persecution on yourself. Itll find you withOUT your help, if it's the real thing.
Too many evangelists bring what they consider persecution down on their own heads, when if they just took an objective look at themselves, they'd see how obnoxious they naively become.

[Rolf Ernst]

Just asking when you guys are talking to people about Christ, do you give them a chose to repent, as in do you say "would you like to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savor." just asking i know what i do but i would like to know what you guys do.

The bible says, "Those who know your name will put their trust in you." To know His name is not to just know the spelling and pronunciation of His name. It is to know His ways and His attributes. When people have come to know that, they will have confidence in Him. They will know not just what He has done on the behalf of unworthy sinners, but they will know that He is able to deliver them. They will have such confidence in His faithfulness that they will truly believe on Him. A necessary part of that faith comes from the Holy Spirit who has convicted them and sent faith and repentance into their heart so that their faith is gernuine--the result of the Holy Spirit's regenerating them. Any other faith comes short of being genuine and will not profit anyone anything. Therefore, we view our commission to be exactly what Jesus said--"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." Once the Holy Spirit has regenerated them they will repent and believe, but we can encourage them to consider Christ and His work, His trustworthiness, to turn away from any hope in themselves, rely wholly upon Christ; to cease the wickedness of their unbelief, cast away the sin of their rejecting of Him and follow Him in obedience with a sincere heart.

[Paleoconservatarian]

Then ask them "Who do you think Jesus is?" Listen to answer. Maybe discuss that some more.

This is a very good question. And the variety of answers is amazing. This question alone opens up discussions into just about every relevant topic.

I never try to get them to make a declaration, or say the sinner's prayer, or anything like that. I do not push them to make a choice. That is something I cannot do. That is of the Spirit. My job is to share the gospel. Modern evangelism is like a sales pitch. It's often focused on forcing out that declaration... just as soon as you can get them to say the sinner's prayer, it's all right. But that is dangerous. It makes false converts. Mind, I do not dance around the fact that there is a choice, that you are for Christ or you are against him, but it's not my job to get them to choose.

[Rolf Ernst]

Antman--Neither the apostles nor Calvinists ask anyone,"would you like to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour." That is going beyond the bounds assigned to us; intruding into the territory reserved for the Holy Spirit.

The very idea that the work of regeneration is dependent upon any man's authority is blasphemy. The Holy Spirit quickens whom He will. We can only hear the sound of the wind but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone born of the Spirit!

Ritualistic incantations such as the "sinners prayer" formulary substitution for the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration---that type of evangelism---is the reason the church is held in such low esteem today, and membership roles are full of unregenerate people, most of whom stay home,and never dare stand up for Jesus before this wicked generation. Its mantras and incantations have absolutely no power. It is the same thing as the incantations of witchcraft and by it many souls are deceived.

[Imblessed]

I think the proper way is to live life for God, not be ashamed of your beliefs, stand up for God if needed, never compromise your principles and beliefs, preach the Gospel message when you can, and if asked, share how to become a christian.

The apostles preached Christ crucified and risen and preached that He was the only way to heaven--they didn't ask if people wanted to "accept" Jesus, people asked them--"what must I do to be saved?" and they told them--"repent, and be baptized." Those who had been quickened, did just that, and those that hadn't, went about their way, thinking it was all foolishness. I'm sure that there were those who "went with the crowd", but their faith was exposed eventually--and that is exactly what I think happens when evangelists call and plead and demand people to come forward and accept Christ.

Even "one on one" I think this can happen, a person may not want to offend you, or may be influenced falsely, or not understand. I really feel that a person who has been truly regenerated by God will come to you and ask what to do if you have been given the blessing to be the one to lead that person to Christ. If you have shared the gospel with this person and they don't seem interested or aren't being proactive in the discussion, what good would it do to ask them if they want to say the "sinners prayer". Unless they are truly convicted of their sins, it won't do any good, and if they ARE convicted, they will certainly ask you what to do about it!

I was at a large non-denominational church service where this happened. At the end of the service, they did an alter call, and hundreds and hundreds of people came forth. I highly doubt that even half of them truly were "saved" that day. I'm positive it stemmed from the desire to please others and to look good. As much as I would like to believe that God moved that many people that day, I had a sinking feeling in my stomach when I watched what was happening. I've not been able to shake it since. I do not doubt the sencerity of the people on stage, I know them personally and know that their love for God is real--they are truly wonderful, loving Christians who really walk the walk and help thousands of underprivilaged people all over the world with their missions. I suppose that even if only 50 people out of all those hundreds that came forward were truly saved, it would be worth it....but I was still uncomfortable with it.

[JJB]

Let me ask you all this question: How and when did you become a Christian?

[Rick Otto]

I was 4yrs old, on my 4th birthday, when I think I experienced my first "infilling" w/the Holy Spirit (rebirth?).
I remember a few months before, being at Catholic mass, in the back pews with my family. I was tugging at my mother's dress, trying to get her attention. The priest was reading from scripture, before the sermon, so everyone was still standing. Mom finaly looked down @ me in annoyance as I whispered loudly, "Is that God?" pointing in the direction of the podium. Mom shook her head & said,"Shhhh!", but everyone around us had noticed the commotion, & and someone whispered,"He just likes to THINK he is!" - loud enough to cause a lot of snickering.
I was mad. I had asked the most important question of my life and got shussed & snickered at, as far as I could figure.
Weeks earlier, I had gotten realy jazzed by hearing that God made everything & that He loved us. It just made so much sense to me at 3&1/2. I remeber thinking, "YEAH!, So THAT'S it!!!"
On my 4th birthday I went outside and layed in the grass, lookin' up at a huge, fluffy cumulus cloud, nearly by itself in a clear blue sky. I watchedthe distant wind currents gently shift the lace on the edges of the cloud. I scanned the huge oak trees and watched big crows, blujays & robins enjoy God's creation. my chihuahua came struttin' along, queen of all she surveyed ( I laughed to myself).
I thought, as awesome as that little beast is, I feel even more special, 'cause this creation was meant for me, & I can know it's creator.
just then a rush of wind came up over me from behind. I saw each blade of grass 'bow' as if in congregation, a highlight of sunshine running up the blades, & leaping off them into thinair.
I felt billowed over by his love.
I felt like I'd made a solid bond that no religionist could overcome.

And boy, did I ever need it!
I remember nuns in 1st grade catechism, patrollingthe aisles between desks with rulers at the ready to smack the inattentive or sleepy heads.
"Who made you?", teacher asked.
"God made me!" everyone shouted in unison.
"WHY?!"
Because He loves us!!! (fear & adreniline mounting...)

I was the last one in our family to quit going to mass, when I was in 8th grade.

[Imblessed]

Well, I grew up in a christian household going to church every week, being involved in my youth group etc etc. When I was in high school, I did the equivalant of Baptism(was raised Quaker, where baptism is not practiced) and stood in front of my church and declared myself to be a christian.

If asked I would say I was a christian but did I practice it? No, not really. Occationally i would pray, but I didn't rely on God for anything. I just lived my life, made some dumb mistakes, was blessed by meeting and marrying a good man(thank you Lord, for that!), worked, and eventually ended up with a couple of kids and attending a small church I didn't really like just because it was a "quaker" church. One day I had an epipheny, "this is not christianity." Going to church once a week was not going to cut it. Especially going to a church where every Sunday you looked for excuses to not go! I realized that if I was going to claim to be a christian, I had to live it. I had to figure out just what I believed and why, and I had to give every part of me to God, not just my Sunday mornings--and there was absolutely no reason to believe my kids would be christians just because I took them to church if God were not part of our everyday lives.

My husband and I had a long talk and agreed that we needed to change churches and start relying on God more. We were led to the church we are members of now. Neither one of us wanted to go because it's a "mega-church"--but I was really feeling the need to check it out, just once. I couldn't figure out what the pull was. So one Sunday morning, Matt wakes up and says out of the clear blue sky. "OK, we will go to Crossroads, but unless the sermon is speaking directly to us, we will never go back." So we went, and it was the beginning of the series "Starting over with God"! We sat flabbergasted, as every word that morning spoke directly to our hearts. When we left, Matt agreed that that was no coincidence,and we haven't looked back. I've learned more there(and here on CF) in the last 2 years than my whole life as a christian.

I had no reason to change my life, and no real desire to-- I was raised christian, I led a "good" life, I had a good marriage, good kids, etc etc. No one would look at me and say, "she can't be a christian". It was all good. Except I had never actually let God IN. And sitting on the pew one morning, listening to a sermon that had NOTHING to do with this, I realized that I wasn't really who I said I was. God reached in and put this mental mirror in front of me and showed me who I really was. A fraud. A wannabe. A "because everyone else is doing it", A "because that's how I was raised". And I knew that I had been changed. From that moment on, what I was getting wasn't nearly enough. I had to learn, I had to grow, I had to change my ways. I had to find a church that preached the truth. I didn't have a choice. God put that desire to change in my heart that morning. You know what's weird? I didn't even realize it until far later! All I knew was that I was suddenly unsatisfied with my 'christian' life and wanted to be more involved. It wasn't until later that I realized it wasn't MY bright idea to move on and become a real christian---because I had had NO desire to change up until that point. That's when I started questioning the whole concept of "free will" and predestination. And how I ended up here at CF, praising God that He opened my eyes and heart to the truth, and that he led me to a church that teaches the truth before I even knew what it was!


P.S. I guess that's why it's hard for me to evangelize. I had never "not" known the Gospel, and grew up in a church that did not evangelize(at least not on the 'homefront'--there are lots and lots of Quaker missionaries though). I was raised in the belief that christianity is a private affair, a personal walk--and that you shared if someone asked, but otherwise, let your actions do the talking.

[mannysee]

well, the short story is, i became a christian because God drew me to Christ (picking up the bible and not understanding it/ fearing some things i read about, meeting a christian, reading a couple of Little's books, meeting the same guy in another city, basically saying to him "what must i do to become a christian?"), i held off for a short time (thinking about it), but i couldn't resist him in the end. This happened 12 years ago.

[JJB]

Thanks for sharing your stories Rick and Imblessed! Rick yours brought tears to my eyes because it reminds me that we are to come to Jesus as little children. Children have such open hearts and grown ups often get in the way of a child's relationship with Jesus.

Imblessed, yours, too, being told to shusssh when you are serious in your question when you were a child.

Similarly to Imblessed, I always knew God existed, even as a young child. But I do not recall hearing the gospel until I was a teen. I probably did hear it prior to my teen years, but my ears were not yet opened to hear it. When I did hear the gospel, that's when I thought "Eureka! I want Jesus." I ended up saying the sinner's prayer -- even tho I don't believe now that it's a requirement for Christianity, but hey, what did I know other than wanting Jesus.

Then my faith walk has had ups and downs, but I can say I never doubted God's faithfulness. I praise God and thank Him that He called me and maintains my faith. I still cannot fathom the depths of my own depravity, yet He is faithful and will continue to complete me.

I found this good article on evangelizing, after being prompted by some posts here to wonder what exactly are we to do regarding evangelizing:

http://gospelpedlar.com/evan_sov.htm

[JJB]

well, the short story is, i became a christian because God drew me to Christ (picking up the bible and not understanding it/ fearing some things i read about, meeting a christian, reading a couple of Little's books, meeting the same guy in another city, basically saying to him "what must i do to become a christian?"), i held off for a short time (thinking about it), but i couldn't resist him in the end. This happened 12 years ago.

God is so good, isn't He? Praise God for our brothers and sisters who will share the good news with us.

[Antman_05]

Thanks for all the feed back even if some of it did get a lil off topic though still interesting now the less

[Imblessed]

this:
We should not be held back by the thought that if they are not elect, they will not believe us, and our efforts to convert them will fail. That is true; but it is none of our business, and should make no difference to our action. In the first place, it is always wrong to abstain from doing good for fear that it might not be appreciated. In the second place, the non-elect in this world are faceless men as far as we are concerned. We know that they exist, but we do not and cannot know who they are, and it is as futile as it is impious for us to try and guess. The identity of the reprobate is one of God’s ‘secret things’ into which His people may not pry. In the third place, our calling as Christians is not to love God’s elect, and them only, but to love our neighbour, irrespective of whether he is elect or not. Now, the nature of love is to do good and to relieve need. If, then, our neighbour is unconverted, we are to show love to him as best we can by seeking to share with him the good news without which he must needs perish. So we find Paul warning and teaching ‘every man’:[Col. i.28] not merely because he was an apostle, but because every man was his neighbour. And the measure of the urgency of our evangelistic task is the greatness of our neighbour’s need and the immediacy of his danger.

and this:



Some fear that belief in the sovereign grace of God leads to the conclusion that evangelism is pointless, since God will save His elect anyway, whether they hear the gospel or not. This, as we have seen, is a false conclusion based on a false assumption. But now we must go further, and point out that the truth is just the opposite. So far from making evangelism pointless, the sovereignty of God in grace is the one thing that prevents evangelism from being pointless. For it creates the possibility—indeed, the certainty—that evangelism will be fruitful. Apart from it, there is not even a possibility of evangelism being fruitful. Were it not for the sovereign grace of God, evangelism would be the most futile and useless enterprise that the world has ever seen, and there would be no more complete waste of time under the sun than to preach the Christian gospel.

Why is this? Because of the spiritual inability of man in sin. Let Paul, the greatest of all evangelists, explain this to us.

Fallen man, says Paul, has a blinded mind, and so is unable to grasp spiritual truth. ‘The natural (unspiritual, unregenerate) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.’[1Cor ii.14] Again, he has a perverse and ungodly nature. ‘The carnal mind (the mind of the unregenerate man) is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.’ The consequence? ‘So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.’[Rom viii.7 f.] In both these passages Paul makes two distinct statements about fallen man in relation to God’s truth, and the progression of thought is parallel in both cases. First Paul asserts unregenerate man’s failure, as a matter of fact. He ‘receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God’; he ‘is not subject to the law of God’. But then Paul goes on to interpret his first statement by a second, to the effect that this failure is a necessity of nature, some- thing certain and inevitable and universal and unalterable, just because it is not in man to do other- wise than fail in this way. ‘Neither can he know them.’ ‘Neither indeed can be.’ Man in Adam has not got it in him to apprehend spiritual realities, or to obey God’s law from his heart. Enmity against God, leading to defection from God, is the law of his nature. It is, so to speak, instinctive to him to suppress and evade and deny God’s truth, and to shrug off God’s authority and to flout God’s law—yes, and when he hears the gospel to disbelieve and disobey that too. This is the sort of person that he is. He is, says Paul, ‘dead in trespasses and sins[Eph ii.1]—wholly incapacitated for any positive reaction to God’s Word, deaf to God’s speech, blind to God’s revelation, impervious to God’s inducements. If you talk to a corpse, there is no response; the man is dead. When God’s Word is spoken to sinners, there is equally no response; they are ‘dead in trespasses and sins’.

Nor is this all. Paul also tells us that Satan (whose power and ill will he never underestimates) is constantly active to keep sinners in their natural state. Satan ‘now worketh in the children of disobedience[Eph ii.2] to ensure that they do not obey God’s law. And ‘the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ . . . should shine unto them.’[2Cor iv.4] So that there are two obstacles in the way of successful evangelism: the first, man’s natural and irresistible impulse to oppose God, and the second, Satan’s assiduity in shepherding man in the ways of unbelief and disobedience.

What does this mean for evangelism? It means, quite simply, that evangelism, described as we have described it, cannot possibly succeed. However clear and cogent we may be in presenting the gospel, we have no hope of convincing or converting anyone. Can you or I by our earnest talking break the power of Satan over a man’s life? No. Can you or I give life to the spiritually dead? No. Can we hope to convince sinners of the truth of the gospel by patient explanation? No. Can we hope to move men to obey the gospel by any words of entreaty that we may utter? No. Our approach to evangelism is not realistic till we have faced this shattering fact, and let it make its proper impact on us. When a schoolmaster is trying to teach children arithmetic, or grammar, and finds them slow to learn, he assures himself that the penny must drop sooner or later, and so encourages himself to keep on trying. We can most of us muster great reserves of patience if we think that there is some prospect of ultimate success in what we are attempting. But in the case of evangelism there is no such prospect. Regarded as a human enterprise, evangelism is a hopeless task. It cannot in principle produce the desired effect. We can preach, and preach clearly and fluently and attractively; we can talk to individuals in the most pointed and challenging way; we can organize special services, and distribute tracts, and put up posters, and flood the country with publicity—and there is not the slightest prospect that all this outlay of effort will bring a single soul home to God. Unless there is some other factor in the situation, over and above our own endeavours, all evangelistic action is foredoomed to failure. This is the fact, the brute, rock-bottom fact, that we have to face.



AWESOME! and true! thanks for posting that link JJB! I think I'm going to bookmark it to read more thoroughly......

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Post deleted.

[Rick Otto]

A gift isn't given if it hasn't been recieved.
Recieving is in the very definition of giving.

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Post deleted.

[Imblessed]

Of course a gift can be given, and yet NOT be accepted, just because a gift is not received does not mean it was never given, that is a very ridiculous assumption on your part

God GAVE his son Jesus as a gift to the world for the assuarance of salvation for the entire world BUT the entire world has NOT yet accepted that gift, just becasue all of man kind has not yet made the choice to accept that gift certainly does not mean Gods gift of his son Jesus was never given.

I know you hate me, and you think I'm a stupid bafoon Ricky boy, and I may just be exactly that in your eyes, BUT stupid bafoon or not, I have enough common sense in me to know you are stone cold dead wrong on this one pal.....

I am taking the initiative now to warn you to be civil or leave this forum. I don't know about others on here, but I WILL report you for the flaming you are coming in and doing.

There is NOT ONE PERSON who has called you stupid, or said they hated you, or even has made even ANY accusation against you, yet you come in here and put words in our mouths and level horrible accusations against us.

I will not tolerate it.

I may not be a moderator, but I know rule breaking when I see it.

[Beoga]

I'm sorry, I certainly should have realized of course that no matter what I do I will always be wrong, that has been Gods pre set plan for my life.

BTW As you can clearly see I changed the reply to RickOtto to state that he is always right and I am always wrong, so as to better satisify everyone concerned...

I apologize if I am not honoring my elders by this post.

No one stated or even implied that you are always going to be wrong, and you stating that does not satisfy us. We love to interact with people and we don't really like it when people "bow down" and give in when we make an arguement. Test what we have to say with Scripture. If we don't stand up to Scripture, then please show us where we are wrong.

But don't come in here with a victim mentality please, it is not beneficial to you or to me.

Are you seriously 53 years old? I apologize, I am not trying to be rude or anything. But, I am sorry, this doesn't sound like the attitude or the maturity that should be coming from a 53 year old.

Again, I apologize if I am not honoring my elders by the last paragraph, in no way is that my intention.

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Reply deleted

[Bulldog]

Yes I am 53 years old, and I've been stupid every moment, of each, and everyday of all of those 53 years, maturity is honestly facing up to very real facts about yourself, and I know for a certain fact that I am STUPID.

If anyone needs to apologize, I do, and I sincerely do apologize, to you,. and to everyone, as I said, I know I am wrong, and I know I will always be wrong, no matter what, even if I posted Bible verses I would be wrong, the verses would certainly NOT be wrong, BUT I would always be wrong in someway or another.

BTW I do NOT have a testimony of HOW I came to be saved, because IT never happened, and IT never will.......

PE, there's no need to be sarcastic. Reformed folks aren't notorius "you're going to hell because you don't agree with all our doctrines" type of people, and we'll be glad to answer any questions you have about Reformed theology. But please don't flame our forums, it's not beneficial to either of us.

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Reply deleted

[Beoga]

I'm not going to hell because I do not agree with your doctrine, I'm going there because I cannot be one of the elect, it is absolutely impossible for me to ever be one of the elect.



How do you know this?
What is your purpose for coming in here?

[PentecostalEvangelist]

I have been banned......

[rnmomof7]

I have been banned......

No you have not or you could not post here. :)

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Just being Biblical, you know, calling those things that are not, as though they are....

[JJB]

PE, are you doubting your salvation? Do you want assurance? Pray for it, my friend.

[cygnusx1]

I have been banned......

No you have not or you could not post here. :) rnmomof7


Just being Biblical, you know, calling those things that are not, as though they are.... PentecostalEvangelist


ROFL :D :D :D

[BBAS 64]

Typical NON Christian Sarcastic hateful CALVINIST attitude....

:P


I wonder how you consider this a fellowship post.

[reformedfan]

Antman--Neither the apostles nor Calvinists ask anyone,"would you like to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour." That is going beyond the bounds assigned to us; intruding into the territory reserved for the Holy Spirit.

The very idea that the work of regeneration is dependent upon any man's authority is blasphemy. The Holy Spirit quickens whom He will. We can only hear the sound of the wind but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone born of the Spirit!

Ritualistic incantations such as the "sinners prayer" formulary substitution for the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration---that type of evangelism---is the reason the church is held in such low esteem today, and membership roles are full of unregenerate people, most of whom stay home,and never dare stand up for Jesus before this wicked generation. Its mantras and incantations have absolutely no power. It is the same thing as the incantations of witchcraft and by it many souls are deceived.

i agree with this. Just tell 'em the Gospel, leave the results to God: if they are the elect, they will convert in God's timing.

[Fatty]

i agree with this. Just tell 'em the Gospel, leave the results to God: if they are the elect, they will convert in God's timing.

OK, let's see an example of what you think is an acceptable presentation of the BIBLICALLY sound, uncompromised, life changing Full Gospel message of the cross of Jesus Christ, as it should be properly presented to a lost person who has never heard anythign about God in his/her life.

I would like to see that posted here, just so everyone will really see what you would tell someone when attempting to bring them into whatever it really is you witness to the lost about, in fact, why not pretend I am an unsaved person, how would you go about telling me about your Gospel, whatever it is, here's your chance reformed go for it!

Don't put me to :yawn: :sleep: though, I don't care about your denominational doctrinal theology....

[CoffeeSwirls]

Well, if doctrine and theology are unimportant, we may as well throw out the Bible and call people to save themselves any which way they can! We Calvinists don't do that, though. If you want to see an example that is purely Biblical, I'll let Peter handle it for us from Acts chapter 2. Please take note of such things as "everyone God calls to Himself" as well as the words "plan" and "foreknowledge." They aren't Calvinists words but Biblical things.

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’


29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’


36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

[Fatty]

Well, if doctrine and theology are unimportant, we may as well throw out the Bible and call people to save themselves any which way they can! We Calvinists don't do that, though. If you want to see an example that is purely Biblical, I'll let Peter handle it for us from Acts chapter 2. Please take note of such things as "everyone God calls to Himself" as well as the words "plan" and "foreknowledge." They aren't Calvinists words but Biblical things.

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’


29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’


36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Why won't you give an example of exactly how you would go about presenting what you believe is the uncompromised life changing full Gospel message of the cross of Jesus Christ to a lost person?

That's all I asked you to do, that has nothing whatsover to do with Calvinism, or Arminiansm, or does it?

See that is the real quesrion here, when you witness to a lost person, using what you say is theology, are you really telling them they have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian?

Now lets see that example if you don't mind......:scratch:

[Fatty]

:P


I wonder how you consider this a fellowship post.

Do you consider the post I responded to to be an acceptable Christ LIke post, I don't, in fact it was the actions of a very mean, sarcastic, insulting Spiritually immature individual, BUT then the actuons I responded to is a typica Calvinist action, as usual....

[Fatty]

i agree with this. Just tell 'em the Gospel, leave the results to God: if they are the elect, they will convert in God's timing.

Again with the exclusivelly select elect, please tell us, how do the exclusivelly select elect KNOW they are the one and only ones God loves enough to save, and how do the others know they are the ONLY ones God hates? :scratch:

(Posted by Mary, one of Fatty's Bible Study students)

[reformedfan]

a catholic & i walked into a bar...

no, that's the wrong story.

a catholic asked me about salvation, about all the diff denoms, & what if someone is in the "wrong" denom (his choice of words, not mine) & i answered him here:

Nevermind, you are so untrustworthy, so deceitful & hypocritical i just can't bring myself to post the link here. We've not banned anyone from that forum, you would be the first.

i tell the Gospel every week at the olde county jail & the chicks who end up coming to faith in Christ don't line up at the ye olde tattoos R us for the blue John Calvin jail house special commemorative edition tat. (though they do come to faith in Christ, even though i don't 'close the deal' & order them to 'pray this prayer'. NO sense causing anyone undue anxiety, that's what your homey Finney was into.)

*sigh* go ahead & read into that & accuse me of being a liar who perverts the Gospel again, i need one more shove to finally put you on my ignore list.

[JJB]

Are you guys in your class now?

The good news off my cuff is this: Jesus Christ, God incarnate, lived a perfect life, paid the price for our sin in that He was crucified, dead and buried and rose again in three days, so that we may have eternal life if we repent and believe in Him.

Altho, I think the passage from Acts quoted by Coffeeswirls above is a much more thorough and compelling explanation. If I were put on the spot and asked by someone what is the good news of Jesus, what I said above is probably what would proceed from my lips.

[Fatty]

Are you guys in your class now?

The good news off my cuff is this: Jesus Christ, God incarnate, lived a perfect life, paid the price for our sin in that He was crucified, dead and buried and rose again in three days, so that we may have eternal life if we repent and believe in Him.

Altho, I think the passage from Acts quoted by Coffeeswirls above is a much more thorough and compelling explanation. If I were put on the spot and asked by someone what is the good news of Jesus, what I said above is probably what would proceed from my lips.

Exactly! Leave denominations out of it! Leave Calvinism OUT of it, leave Arminiansm OUT of it, MY God leave denominational THEOLOGICAL trash OUT of it!

Why in Gods name do people think they have to lead someone into their denomination to get them properly born again?

Apparently those who follow the teachings of john calvin think HIS teachings (Theology) should be the FIRST and most important part of any acceptable witness to a lost person, yes sir get them saved and into a proper calvinist personal relationship with john calvin as their Lord and Savior!

[BBAS 64]

Do you consider the post I responded to to be an acceptable Christ LIke post, I don't, in fact it was the actions of a very mean, sarcastic, insulting Spiritually immature individual, BUT then the actuons I responded to is a typica Calvinist action, as usual....

Good Day, Fatty

I would like to remind you "again" that you are a guest here in the Reformed part of this site.

Peace to u,

Bill

[CoffeeSwirls]

The lies we teach? Name one and show how it is a lie with the Bible. You say that you will only accept the teachings of the Bible so prove it. Show that you are not a false teacher.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. I have half a mind to respond to you only with scripture. No words of my own, just the word of God. In that case, if you want to be disrespectful, you would answer to Him alone.

[reformedfan]

Yeah!!

[cygnusx1]

i tell the Gospel every week at the olde county jail & the chicks who end up coming to faith in Christ don't line up at the ye olde tattoos R us for the blue John Calvin jail house special commemorative edition tat. (though they do come to faith in Christ, even though i don't 'close the deal' & order them to 'pray this prayer'. NO sense causing anyone undue anxiety, that's what your homey Finney was into.)


you are a scream reformedfan!!!!! :D :D :D

[reformedfan]

thanx, punkin pie :blush:

[Adam02134]

We must fufill the Great Commisssion

[Seaioth]

You give them the full (unwatered-down) gospel. Not this Jesus is your buddy zinger...

This is not all inclusive but... They need to understand what a sinner is and realize that they are one, and only through Christ can one be saved. Those regenerated are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, and we still have no righteousness of our own (contrary to Catholic belief, of infused righteousness in man)
The severity of sin, and our inability to do so be works, discipline or anything needs to be particularly emphasized. I have yet to go through extensive ET training however I am iffy on the Four Spiritual Laws' seeker friendly methodology; whereas as of course we are not to "cram verses down anyones throat", as some lifestyle evangelists have so vulgarly put it. But apart from the Word, just whose gospel are you given them? Share the truth in love, yet realize that truth and love are inseperable, however there is "sincerely" false truth and "sincerely" false love...

1 Peter 4:11, 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Timothy 3:16

Whats with this motto I've be hearing and seeing 5 point professers to put into practice?
"Live like an Arminian, believe like a Calvinist???" O_o
A mix of tolerance and compromise that one believes is a kinder gentler Calvinism?

(Some have rebelled against God's Sovereignty by saying that they do not need to evagelize because of God's Election and reprobation, saying that it nullifies God's Soverignty by doing so. This is truly tragic...)

[caltulip]

You know i know this is a little random but when talking about evangilism from a reformed perspective i always have to introduce this. You can not believe that god paid the penalty for everyones sins and not be a calvinist. If the debt is repaid for everyone then everyone should be in heaven. The Bible specifically says tons of times. I came for the sins of "many" not everyone (what it does sometimes way is for the sins of "us" but that us is used when the passage is adressed to the elect).

Whats with this motto I've be hearing and seeing 5 point professers to put into practice?
"Live like an Arminian, believe like a Calvinist???" O_o
A mix of tolerance and compromise that one believes is a kinder gentler Calvinism?

That little saying really frustrates me. It is simply ridiculous. I think that we should show the gospel with love. But i believe that calvinsts do that. The best evangilists in history were mostly reformed. Spurgeon, whitefield, edwards and many more.

[CCWoody]

Actually, the funny thing is that you can't live like an Arminian. It is a theology that works only as a theory. It cannot be practiced.

[CoffeeSwirls]

Have you ever listened to an Arminian pray? It sounds downright Calvinistic! All this bending of hearts and such.

[CCWoody]

Have you ever listened to an Arminian pray? It sounds downright Calvinistic! All this bending of hearts and such.

Well, yeah. When you are on your knees pleading for the salvation of cousin Jimmy it is impossible to sound like an Arminian. You have already abandoned your faith by coming to God for you have left Jimmy's free will and are now asking God to do something.

It would be kind of amusing if an Arminian got this answer: "Well, Randy, I'd love to help out with Jimmy. After all, I don't want anyone to perish, but I've gone as far as I can without violating Jimmy's free will. And, I can't split the heavens for him like I did for Paul. That was a special case and if I do those things for Jimmy, it would not be fair for everyone else. Wish I could help. Why don't you go pray to Jimmy. It is up to him now."

[CoffeeSwirls]

Rofl!