Brethren

[JM]

I've been reading some of the old writings of the Brethren movement, they believed and taught what became the fundamentalist movement.

http://www.newble.co.uk/writers/

[e=mv^2]

Here (http://www.brethren.org/) is the main brethren website. I really like what I have seen about them but unfortunately there are no congregations in my home state.

[jlujan69]

I thought they more or less popularized dispensationalism.

[e=mv^2]

Interesting. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism) says that the Plymouth Brethren effectively started dispensationalism. To tell the truth this doctrine is quite close to what I was taught in the United Methodist Church growing up. Is dispensationalism a bad thing? Sore subject?

[JM]

Interesting. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism) says that the Plymouth Brethren effectively started dispensationalism. To tell the truth this doctrine is quite close to what I was taught in the United Methodist Church growing up. Is dispensationalism a bad thing? Sore subject?

Nooooo, it isn't. Don't let anyone tell you dispensationalism is a bad or sore subject.

Contend!!

sp

[JM]

I think it was Darby that wrote, 'if it comes to truth on one hand, and peace on the other, I'll chose truth.'

[e=mv^2]

'if it comes to truth on one hand, and peace on the other, I'll chose truth.
I like it! It is kinda like my .sig =) I have emailed them about starting a congregation in my area but have had no response as of yet... I may have to annoy them into starting a church here.

[JM]

I like it! It is kinda like my .sig =) I have emailed them about starting a congregation in my area but have had no response as of yet... I may have to annoy them into starting a church here.

LOL, that's what reminded me of it! Have you had the chance to read Darby at all? He, along with others of his time, restored many truths to the church.

Here's one place you can order their works from: http://bbusa.org/ or in Canada http://bbcan.org/ .

http://withchrist.org/JND.pdf

[eddy67]

LOL, that's what reminded me of it! Have you had the chance to read Darby at all? He, along with others of his time, restored many truths to the church.

Here's one place you can order their works from: http://bbusa.org/ or in Canada http://bbcan.org/ .

http://withchrist.org/JND.pdf


Ah yes I've been reading the articles from withchrist.org for a while now. It's a very edifying and informative website. Cheers

[cygnusx1]

I think it was Darby that wrote, 'if it comes to truth on one hand, and peace on the other, I'll chose truth.'

http://www.hwcn.org/link/hmm/nkn/images/NoCaresOval035.jpg :wave:

[Joykins]

There are 2 different major broups of Brethren. One kind is the Germanic Anabaptist Brethren denominations (Brethren in Christ, Church of the Brethren, Grace Brethren, etc.) which came out of the Anabaptist movements of the Reformation. The other kind is the Plymouth Brethren (closed and open Brethren), which started in the British Isles and this was the group that was founded by Darby, the father of Dispensationalism.

[e=mv^2]

Wow thanks Joykins! Because of your post I was able to find a brethren church in my area! I had given up after the CoB failed to return my emails regarding finding a congregation in my state. I will have to go check them out.

Thanks again!
-e

[Joykins]

I'm glad it helped. I was raised and baptized in a Grace Brethren church. I think I miss the trifold communion the most.

Joy

[e=mv^2]

trifold communion?

[Joykins]

The communion service is a dedicated service held a couple of times a year, in the evening. It consists of a footwashing ceremony, a love feast, and the bread and cup.

The footwashing ceremony--the men and women go into separate places, and then you wash the feet of the person next to you, and then they wash your feet.

The love feast is really simple, like a small sandwich--nothing elaborate, so the focus is not really on food but on fellowship.

The communion bread they use is like nothing else I've had anywhere else, either. It tastes sweet, is unleavened, and is literally broken between 2 people before eating.

Joy

[e=mv^2]

Joykins,

Can I ask why it is that you are no longer there?

[Joykins]

I was a teenager at the time. We moved and my family started attending a nondenominational church (with more Baptist-style practices and theology) in our new town.

After I got married, we started attending a C&MA church closer to our new home, where we still attend. I'm currently reading about and exploring other traditions of Christianity also.

[MrJim]

Hmm, it's interesting that I found a Church of the Brethren link on the fundamentalist forum. CoB is generally considered a more liberal wing of the anabaptists (they are members of the NCC/WCC). I think you will even find some women preachers there.

Like many denoms it will vary congregation to congregation with the rural churches usually being more conservative.

[Wolfman66]

This is interesting. I wasnt aware of the Brethren. Were they different from the early Baptists?

The reason I ask is that someone said the Baptists of today came - not from the Pilgrims Protestants or Separatists - but directly and purely from John the Baptist. That seems a little odd to me but I wonder. Anyone know?

I heard of a Baptist Confession of 1679 or something like that.

[EnglishPuritan]

I attend a 'so-called' brethren assembly in North East England but I am not a dispensationalist!!! :)

[Wolfman66]

<too many big words for me>
If a redneck cant spell it. I cant say it.
disp...uh.........n.......uh
say shun.uhhhhhhh
ahhh I give up

[Mick116]

It has been stated a few times on this thread that John Nelson Darby and the early pioneers of the brethren movement were responsible for restoring belief in dispensationalism (of the pre-tribulation rapture variety).

However, I've read in a few places that Edward Irving held very similar eschatological beliefs at about the same time, perhaps even slightly earlier. Does anyone know if this is accurate? I'm fairly certain that some of the Apostolic churches today (e.g. the New Apostolic Church), which are historically linked with Irving, emphasize dispensational beliefs.

Regarding the brethren assemblies, I was converted to Christ in the context of a brethren assembly, and I have many fond memories.

If anyone is interested, here are a few links to brethren websites, most of reasonable quality (both open and exclusive):
brethrenassembly.com/
brethren.org.nz/
brethrenonline.org/
gospelhall.org/
mybrethren.org/
plymouthbrethren.com/
brethrenassembly.org/index1.html
histable.com/index.html
brethrenassemblies.com/
theexclusivebrethren.com/

[JM]

Many 'fundamental' Christians had come out of fallen churches at about the same time as the Brethren begain, the Brethren systemized Dispensationalism.

Darby's own words: http://www.plymouthbrethren.com/jndthol.htm


Darby’s EschatologyAcknowledged as the father of modern dispensational premillennialism, Darby is remembered especially for his recalling the church to expectancy for its rapture at the return of the Lord before Daniel’s seventieth week. He interpreted Daniel’s seventy weeks based on world history. To a large degree, his eschatology flows out of his ecclesiology, which underwent a radical change between 1827 to 1831.


As a young parish priest, Darby became disillusioned with the state-church, which took advantage of governmental sanction. His belief that the church as the body of Christ was to be a heavenly people and not court earthly favors, was formulated by 1827. During the same year, an accidental fall from his horse forced him into a lengthy convalescence, which gave him much time alone with God and His Word. Isaiah thirty-two convinced him that there was to be a future economy in which Israel would enjoy earthly blessings, not at all like the present heavenly blessings he was conscious of because of his union with Christ. Dispensational distinctives were taking shape in his thinking.

The Powers Court Conference of 1831-1833 moved Darby from his earlier historical premillennialism to futurist premillennialism. The transaction from the present church dispensation to the millennial kingdom, in which Israel had center stage under Christ’s rule, was supplied by seeing Daniel’s seventieth week as yet future. Before that time the church would be raptured to heavenly glory, while during that time, God would bring into existence a remnant of Israel who would experience deliverance from their enemies at the return of Christ to the earth. By his own testimony, Darby’s dispensational premillennial eschatology was fully formed by 1833.


For Darby, a dispensation is an economy; any order of things that God has arranged on the earth. The primary characteristics of a dispensation include governmental administration, responsibility, and the revelation to fulfill both. Secondary characteristics include testing, failure, and judgment. When a people fail the test to exercise their responsibility given to them by God, judgment falls, thus ending the dispensation. Darby traced eight dispensations as follows: 1) Noah, 2) Abraham, 3) Israel under the Law (prophet), 4) Israel under priesthood, 5) Israel under the kings, 6) Gentiles from Nebuchadnezzer to the Antichrist, 7) the Church, and 8) the millennium or kingdom. Darby saw three “worlds” or ages: from Adam until Noah’s flood, from Noah until the renovation of the heavens and earth by fire at the end of the millennium, and the eternal state. Darby did not think any dispensations existed before the flood; God just left the race to itself. He also believed that the eternal state was not a dispensation. Thus only from Noah through the millennium could dispensations be distinguished.

Darby’s order of end time events may be grouped as follows: 1) the rapture and first resurrection, 2) post-rapture events in heaven, 3) post-rapture events on earth, 4) the millennial kingdom, 5) post-millennial events, and 6) the eternal state

1) The rapture occurs before the final time of trial to come upon the earth. The Church must already be with Christ in heaven to be able to appear with Him at His glorious return. The first resurrection of the just coincides with the rapture. Thus all those who have died in faith from both the Old Testament and New Testament eras will be raptured with the living church saints. Although all that have a resurrected body will be related in some way to the New Jerusalem, Darby called only the Church the Bride, so as to give it the chief position among the glorified.

2) After the rapture, several things transpire in heaven. First, Satan is cast out of heaven to the earth. Then the saints will experience the Judgment Seat of Christ in preparation for the Marriage of the Lamb. The latter event will take place after the judgment of Babylon.

3) The events on earth after the rapture relate to Daniel’s seventieth week. At times Darby spoke of this seven-year period as entirely future, but at other times, as only three and one-half years remaining for the future (the first three and one-half years being the earthly ministry of Christ). Some future time of trial was necessary after the rapture to prepare a Jewish remnant that would be delivered by their Messiah’s personal return to the earth. During that time, the Beast would arise as the secular head of evil imperial government, and the False Prophet would arise as the Antichrist, the spiritual head of evil religious energy. The Day of the Lord is at the appearing of Christ at the end of the Tribulation period. Armageddon ends the Beast and the Antichrist’s power, and Satan himself will be bound soon after. Next, the land of Israel is cleansed. Then the judgment of the living on earth takes place, to determine who among them will enter the millennial kingdom. After a short time of peace and security in their land, Gog (Russia), whom the Lord will utterly destroy, will attack Israel.

4) In the millennial kingdom, the land promises given to Abraham will be fulfilled for a restored Israel. Messiah delivers the remnant, which becomes the blessed nation, by destroying all its enemies. Afterward, Israel will occupy the chief place among the nations on earth in the kingdom, just as the Church as the Bride of Christ, will occupy the chief place among those resurrected in the New Jerusalem.


5) Events after the millennium include the final revolt of Satan, the second resurrection, and the Great White Throne judgment of the unbelieving dead. Darby believed in the eternal conscious punishment of the lost in the lake of fire.

6) The eternal state will bring an end to Israel’s special position above the nations of the millennial kingdom. But there will eternally be a distinction between the Church and the earthly people in its eternal state format. “The tabernacle of God” (for Darby, meaning the Church in Revelation 21:2-3) would be “with men” (the earth inhabiters without national distinction). Thus the Church will have special distinction in eternity, since “to Him be glory in the Church throughout all ages”(Ephesians 3:21) refers to a relationship that persists forever. Two peoples of God, an earthly and a heavenly, will be eternally distinct, simply because saved humans in natural bodies will be distinguished from the saved who have resurrected bodies in the eternal state.

http://pages.prodigy.net/sathi/ourhistory.html

John Nelson Darby was a true Christian and believed on the Lord with all his heart, his character was that of a true Christian brother.

DARBY'S CHARACTER
Any portraiture of Darby the man must be painted in sharp black and white tones, never in shades of gray. He was a man of incredible intensity. First and foremost, he was intensely committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It was his only love and all-consuming passion. He cared for little that this world had to offer. Though meticulous in personal cleanliness, for example, Darby wore only simple clothing and those to the point of shabbiness. It is said that on one occasion while he slept, some kindly friends seized the opportunity to substitute new clothing for old. Upon waking, Darby donned the new apparel without remark or even apparent notice.
Darby was kind and humble in nature and his compassion and generosity towards the poor was without bounds. He observed that "Christ preferred the poor; ever since I have been converted so have I. Let those who like society better have it. If I ever get into it . . . I return sick at heart. I go to the poor; I find the same evil nature as in the rich, but I find this difference: the rich, and those who keep their comforts and their society, judge and measure how much of Christ they can take and keep without committing themselves; the poor, how much of Christ they can have to comfort them in their sorrows. That, unworthy as I am, is where I am at home and happy." Darby in no way felt intellectually ill-equipped for cultivated society, it was just that given the choice, he rejected it all in preference for the cross.
Kindly in disposition and humble in spirit though Darby was, his absolute devotion to the Word of God and demand for unflinching fidelity to its truth, as he understood it, made him ready prey for controversy. His limitless patience with the honest ignorance of the poor and unlearned was legendary. But so was his wrath against those among the well educated who played fast and loose with the truth of the gospel of Christ.
A full twenty-five years after one "heterodox teacher" had felt the brunt of Darby's indignation, he was to write, "J.N.D. writes with a pen in one hand and a thunderbolt in the other." But as Darby's biographer, W. G. Turner points out, "it was only fundamental error which roused his deepest grief and indignation, his patience with honest blunderers being proverbial."
If ever the epithet, "fighting Fundamentalist" applied to anyone, it applied to J. N. Darby. At the same time, it is true that Darby derived no pleasure from controversy and often expressed his love for the object of his more potent polemics. But in his view, faced with a choice between peace on the one hand and truth on the other, there could be no alternative but to defend the truth.
Wherever Darby went, whether peasant's home or hallowed halls of Oxford, his nobleness of character, keenness of mind, dedication to Christ, and commanding presence made him the focus of attention. The great Bible teacher and preacher, G. Campbell Morgan recounts as one of the "cherished recollections" of his boyhood his encounter with Darby who had come to visit his father. "He vividly recalls the almost reverential awe that lay upon him in the presence of that truly great man, and how the awe gave place and the reverence remained, when the visitor spoke kindly to him about his studies."
http://www.newble.co.uk/grant/darby.html

PS: It needs to be noted, John Nelson Darby focused not on end times but on divison of life and knowing the first Adam and the Last Adam. http://withchrist.org/pauldisp.htm

[JM]

http://www.christianforums.com/t712283-j-n-darby-c-i-scofield-fan-club.html&page=3

[Shipwreck]

To tell the truth this doctrine is quite close to what I was taught in the United Methodist Church growing up.

It should be, many of the Bretheren churches in the midwest were "absorbed" by the UMC. My ancestors built a Bretheren church in the 1800's and I have several of their letters from that period detailing church events. Quite interesting reading.

[anne53]

Ive enjoyed reading your replies on the Plymouth Brethren and Darby. I have never known a Brethren Assembly break bread and wine with women being separated or that they wash each others feet...never known that to be. But I have to say every Sunday the morning meeting requires the breaking of bread because the full meeting concentrates on Christ and Him alone. They were always noted for their teaching on Dispensationalism and Prophecy and they always knew the Church and Israel were separate they do not teach replacement theology. Fundemental they are and hold to sound teaching
Anne

[Joykins]

Ive enjoyed reading your replies on the Plymouth Brethren and Darby. I have never known a Brethren Assembly break bread and wine with women being separated or that they wash each others feet...never known that to be. But I have to say every Sunday the morning meeting requires the breaking of bread because the full meeting concentrates on Christ and Him alone. They were always noted for their teaching on Dispensationalism and Prophecy and they always knew the Church and Israel were separate they do not teach replacement theology. Fundemental they are and hold to sound teaching
Anne

The trifold communion is done by the Anabaptist Brethren groups, not by the Plymouth Brethren. I think there was some confusion about which kind of Brethren was which.