For the people looking for a church... [Archive]

Caprice

7th August 2005, 06:34 PM

I'm looking for a church that doesn't scream "corruption!" when I join them for worship. That includes everything from it's congregation and leadership to the outward appearance of the place of worship itself.

Some of this is aparent by how the church uses money it collects:

Does it spend money on a new organ or do the members bring their own instraments for musical worship?
Does the building look like a giant Cathedral that would likely cost millions to build and upkeep over the years or do they meet in someone's home or in the park or at a nursing home?
Are they secretive about their finances or completely open?
Does the pastor pull a living wage off the church or does he work outside the church to make a living for his family (thereby offering further oportunities to witness to people).
The general attitude of the people there can also tell a person a lot about the "corruption level":

Does the pastor (whatever title used for the person in charge of the gatherign) greet new faces or not notice (or seem to ignore) them?
Does the pastor seem to be a normal guy (not overly happy or overly depressed all the time)?
Are the people overly welcoming (acting fake) or do they seem to have a genuine interest in you and what brought you to their congregation?
I also think that certain methods of promoting ministry programs shows a lot, for instance, do they seem to make a grand effort to be noticed doing "God's Work" or are they more interested in staying low and doing it in a more humble (less obvious) way?

I'm sure I could think of other things that come into my mind, but honestly at some point I'd just look like I was trying to find excuses to not go to church. While I'll agree my laziness plays a roll in the situation, I am convicted in my heart that I have perfectly valid reasons to not find most churches acceptable.

I do go to church on a less-than-regular basis at a place about 100 miles away from where we live. My wife's family lives there and when we visit we generally attend and I feel pretty good about the place overall. If I could make the transition right now and move down there I probably would (and it doesn't meet all of the expectations I have honestly, but I also have to remember that my expectations mean little to a perfect God.

New_Wineskin

7th August 2005, 06:49 PM

...I am wondering what you look into before commiting into a church that is located within your community (other than denomination).

Ill start. For me, I am looking for a church that has a good RCIA program (I am an uncatechized lapsed Catholic), within driving distance of my house and college, and reasonable hours for me to attend mass on eather Saturday (after 4:00) or Sunday.

I have no desire to be committed . I am already committed to the Lord . I can meet with anyone at anytime .

Wisdom's Child

8th August 2005, 03:38 AM

Caprice

8th August 2005, 06:08 PM

On the subject of Corruption, I find it to be a big turnoff if I have to walk past a table full of books and tapes for sale to get to the sanctuary.

Didn't Jesus throw the Merchants and Moneychangers out of the Temple?
*maniacal laugh*
I seem to recall something like that somewhere in the early section of the New Testament... Good point. LOL

loribee59

9th August 2005, 09:16 PM

On the subject of Corruption, I find it to be a big turnoff if I have to walk past a table full of books and tapes for sale to get to the sanctuary.

Didn't Jesus throw the Merchants and Moneychangers out of the Temple?

If He were here NOW, He'd be whipping those tele-evangelists for doing the SAME thing...

Just when they're getting to an interesting point in their sermon, it cuts to a commerical: "I hope you enjoyed the sermon, if you want to hear the REST of it, you'll NEED to buy the tape for $30.00! God bless you" with a big, pasted on grin....

UGH.. :sick:

SNPete

16th August 2005, 01:09 AM

If Not For Grace

24th August 2005, 11:26 AM

Having recently married and moved to a new small DEEEEEEEP South community-

I am currently visiting and looking for a new "Home" church. I pray to find:

1) a knowledgable annointed pastor who is NOT run by a Deacons Board or similar group.

2) A group of members who are NOT all just Alike.

3) A nursey--because I am not mature enough to sit thru a service with crying and unruly children.

4) I don't want a service that lasts ALLLLLL day , but one that is not cut short because it's 5 till Noon.

5) SOME social activities, but not the championship TEAM.

6) A pastor who can TEACH AS WELL AS PREACH....

Pray for me...:bow:

FLANDIDLYANDERS

27th August 2005, 03:15 AM

I'm looking for a Church that has good taste in music and beer, includes non-Christian's in its community, prays, information and teaching is distributed from within group and explored broadly due to varied beliefs and lifestyles, organic/seasonal leadership, good Net-Connection, commitment to meaningful worship and artworkshops/creative meditational environments, great food/committed to local curry-houses and bars, treats kids like people, non-sexist/classist/etc, experimental, interdependent with the community, seeks and finds God whenever/whatever/whoever, safe, challenging, non-hierarchical...

That's what the rest of my Church is looking for - giv or take -will let you know the more fuller we achieve it!

If Not For Grace

29th August 2005, 10:21 AM

=FLANDIDLYANDERS], prays, information and teaching is distributed from within group and explored broadly due to varied beliefs and lifestyles, curry-houses and bars,

May I suggest A 12-step program?:blush:

janny108

6th September 2005, 10:49 PM

About 6 years ago, we were between churches and at a loss as to where to go. We had our requirement list of what we wanted in a church regarding doctrine, style of worship, etc.

One Saturday, I prayed over the phone book, hoping that God would lead us to the right church. I felt led to check out the local Presbyterian church. I thought Presbyterian? But I am a Pentecostal, who likes contemporary style worship. I sez, well, OK God.

So we went to First Prez and guess what. It wasn't even close to what "we wanted" in a church, but it felt so right. It was the best church experience we had in that town. The only reason we no longer attend First Prez is that we moved to our present location.

The lesson is this: Toss your list of requirements for a church and instead open your heart and mind. Ask God where He wants you to be and go there in faith. A guaranteed formula for success!

Interesting. How did you adjust as you came from a Pentecostal background? Cause we are Pentecostal-Church of God. I was looking in the phone book tonight and I saw a Presby church that I want to inquire about. We are disappointed in the AOG churches so far, and some churches don't even have much fellowship or they have no bible study or sunday schools. Seems unbalanced one way or the other.

Jan

janny108

6th September 2005, 11:14 PM

Also, what kind of church are you are in now that you have moved?

Jan

SNPete

7th September 2005, 08:52 AM

Interesting. How did you adjust as you came from a Pentecostal background? Cause we are Pentecostal-Church of God. I was looking in the phone book tonight and I saw a Presby church that I want to inquire about. We are disappointed in the AOG churches so far, and some churches don't even have much fellowship or they have no bible study or sunday schools. Seems unbalanced one way or the other.

Jan
As one would expect, when God calls you to something, He makes it work. The services are very structured. I used to joke that you could tell what time it was by what was going on in the service.

What we would call worship time, that 20 or 30 minute block of music, does not exist in the classic Presbyterian service. At the beginning of he service we had two short contemporary worship songs followed by a Hymn. Then there was three other hymns mixed within the structure of the service.

Now here is what was interesting. Instead of the usual 3 to 5 minutes it took to enter into a state of worship, my wife and I found that we entered into that state in about 10 seconds. The whole hour and five minutes of the service became worship, even the children’s time. We left each Sunday service refreshed.

Now I must say this may not be the case for everybody, but because God called us to that particular church we were blessed there. (I will say that you will find the people and the way things are done to be different from what you are used to.) Not better, not worse, just different.We found wonderful caring people and good Bible study. It also turned out that 20% of the members and the pastor were Charismatic!

SNPete

7th September 2005, 11:10 AM

Also, what kind of church are you are in now that you have moved?

Jan
Our present Church home is a Bible Church. Basically evangelical. We run about 800 on Sunday morning. There are a number of members (10%) who are from a Pentecostal background. Good teaching, good worship. The church’s focus is relationship with God and relationship with people. An interesting point: about 7 years ago, the pastor and elder board felt led to drop hymns and go contemporary in style of worship. They lost a third of the congregation over the change. Today, the church is twice the size as it was 7 years ago.

There are a number of good Pentacostal chuches in our area, but God led us to this evangelical church.

If Not For Grace

9th September 2005, 02:02 PM

when God calls you to something, He makes it work

I have not had a "call" for a specific church am I in trouble?

SNPete

9th September 2005, 02:49 PM

I have not had a "call" for a specific church am I in trouble?

My reference to “call” had to do with my search for a church home and the fact that God was leading me to a denomination that I never considered. Your typical Presbyterian church service is as opposite of a typical Pentecostal church service as one can get. Both are good in their own way. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at First Prez.

But the point was that God had to make it clear to my wife and I that this is here we belonged. How would I describe what God did? A strong leading? A sense of rightness? A calling? I guess I used calling in response to a question in post #11 about how I, as a Pentecostal, could adjust to the Prez style of worship. So for the sake of describing how it could work for me or anyone else, I said “As one would expect, when God calls you to something, He makes it work.”

My belief is that people looking for a church should be willing to go outside of their “box”. Not always, but sometimes God asks us to join a different part of the Body and we should be open to do that. God will make it work. That’s a certainty! :thumbsup:

Are you in a Church now or looking for a church home?

If Not For Grace

13th September 2005, 10:15 AM

I probably am spoiled, but I have grown to like the TV Evangelists. I don't find the type of teaching in my local country church that I have gotten with them and I am falling further and further away (which Bothers me) from personal attendance. It's like going back to high school after having been to college and THE DOGMA, cliques and bickering is unreal...Pray that I find and am motivated to keep looking for a good local church...:groupray:

SNPete

13th September 2005, 03:28 PM

...Pray that I find and am motivated to keep looking for a good local church...:groupray:I will.

I think that if you allow God to lead you to His choice you will find that right church. I think we should be open to churches that are not on our list. As I said earlier, my wife and I never considered attending a Presbyterian church, yet it turned out to be one of the best church experiences we ever had. This was in a town of 18,000, where choices were few.

I don't believe that God would place a person in a town with no "right" church for that person in the area.

If Not For Grace

13th September 2005, 03:44 PM

M Paul

13th September 2005, 04:43 PM

I am open to new churches and I plan to continue to look. But have you ever been shopping for a good used car....Nothing can tire you more. I'm sure I can find something, if I just don't QUIT. That's what I need the prayers for.

I'm going to take a big hit here, but your response sounds so typical of what I hate about "religious commentary" No "real" suggestions of help or experience just let GOD lead, which I know----is true, but sometimes we need to encourage each other, I was hoping to find a little in this thread, oh well..

I just am hoping the answer is not "Start One"---.

I don't want to give you a big hit, or even a little hit----but, I don't get tired looking for a used car--I just pray. Dang, you should see my last one: very nice car. I prayed for about 10 days, then one night test drove one car. It really is a matter of prayer. If you don't see it that way, perhaps, it's because God wants to give you an answer you just were not expecting. That happened to me once years ago, when I thought I wanted a truck. Hmm--that was a really nice car too.

Sorry

Regards,

Paul

If Not For Grace

14th September 2005, 11:14 AM

I don't get tired looking

Good for you, but I feel displaced, its like going w/o a good meal and eating only fast food to be w/o a home church. I won't starve, I just miss what I had .:wave:

discernomatic

16th September 2005, 04:35 AM

...I am wondering what you look into before commiting into a church that is located within your community (other than denomination).

I agree with New Wineskin. I tend to stay out of churches and just meet with Christians at my home or theirs. I am already committed to Jesus Christ.
Be careful when considering joining a church with a program. If I were you I'd find out where it comes from, what their philosophies are, who started the program and who they are affiliated with. Watch for key words like "vision", "goals", "purpose" and "driven". They are very popular right now, but whether they will edify you or bring you closer to God could be doubtful.

Count

16th September 2005, 01:54 PM

I agree with New Wineskin. I tend to stay out of churches and just meet with Christians at my home or theirs. I am already committed to Jesus Christ.
Be careful when considering joining a church with a program. If I were you I'd find out where it comes from, what their philosophies are, who started the program and who they are affiliated with. Watch for key words like "vision", "goals", "purpose" and "driven". They are very popular right now, but whether they will edify you or bring you closer to God could be doubtful.

Wow! Amen sister.:amen: You are really free. Free to know your Lord, free to enjoy Him, free to love Him. Free from programs, free from structures, free from organizations. You are free because you are part of the most beautiful woman in the world, part of the Lord's Bride, part of Ekklessia.

If Not For Grace

16th September 2005, 02:31 PM

I tend to stay out of churches and just meet with Christians at my home or theirs. I am already committed to Jesus Christ.

So what about the evangelical aspects of outreach, helping causes (the poor etc.) tithing and instructing new Christians--Does your group just not see any need for this type activity?

New_Wineskin

16th September 2005, 03:36 PM

So what about the evangelical aspects of outreach, helping causes (the poor etc.) tithing and instructing new Christians--Does your group just not see any need for this type activity?

How do you see "outreach , helping causes" affected by this ?

Tithing ? That is a discussion in and of iteself in many forums . It isn't need by many of us .

How do you see "instructing new Christians" affected by this ?

Count

17th September 2005, 06:00 AM

Then Who teaches, on what etc?

Jesus Christ is His name. He is the one who dwells in us.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

17th September 2005, 02:18 PM

So what about the evangelical aspects of outreach, helping causes (the poor etc.) tithing and instructing new Christians--Does your group just not see any need for this type activity?

Such things are DISCIPLESHIP. And is not an ACTIVITY, but a lifestyle.

TITHING IS NOT N.T. BIBLICAL ~~~~~~> Sharing EVERYTHING is.

The point is that Church should be living where the need is... and experiencing that need too! Not going out and giving solutions. Working together, not "helping".

Activity is dead, long live life!

If Not For Grace

19th September 2005, 10:21 AM

TITHING IS NOT N.T. BIBLICAL ~~~~~~> Sharing EVERYTHING is.

May I suggest you re-read Paul's writings.

He encourages (Letters to the Churches) the new churches and suggests the gatherings to promote stregnth and unity. Even Jesus went to temple. I just can't see disbanding or abandoning our churches as healthly for the body. Can we not bring what we have in the home groups into the churches. Do we not still need leaders (another poster said Jesus is the Teacher in their group) and to encourage each other from more diverse settings than just "our street".
I am not against meeting in the home, but should we not do this in conjunction with a good bible based church attendance?

New_Wineskin

19th September 2005, 04:04 PM

I am not against meeting in the home, but should we not do this in conjunction with a good bible based church attendance?

What would you define " a good bible based church attendance " ?

If Not For Grace

19th September 2005, 04:37 PM

Yes:

One Where there is Bible Based Teaching with a pastor who is well read, an informed theologian and where personal judgements are discouraged.

and if any of you would like to visit one in person I recommend

Liberty Baptist Church in Vernon, Al Pastor Darrell Burgette

I admit Churches like this one have been hard for me to come by but I am STILL looking in my local area. At any rate we need to work for change within any organization if possible, rather than disband the idea all together.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

20th September 2005, 01:55 AM

LOL. I love that people think that a church leader has to be a theologian or have a degree or whatever. LMAO.

In regards to "meetings" do what you feel is right. You're talking to the wrong guy about that, my church went boom... intentionally.

House churches begin in some instances because they see the leader-led church meeting as not much more than barely interactive TV, and wish to get back to NT stylee.

Tithing? Sharing EVERYTHING is more Biblical methinx... you ever tried that?

discernomatic

20th September 2005, 01:47 PM

So what about the evangelical aspects of outreach, helping causes (the poor etc.) tithing and instructing new Christians--Does your group just not see any need for this type activity?

I don't like the concept of tithing as it is often used and misused these days. I do give things directly if I see the need. I regularly exchange my children's clothing with those of another family. Their boy is larger than mine, and my girl is larger than theirs. I give to charities once I have checked them over. I witness regularly, but there are just not any takers on the gospel right now. It usually goes in one ear and out the other. I am loosely connected to a few churches and give through them at times, but have no inclination to belong.

If Not For Grace

20th September 2005, 02:31 PM

House churches begin in some instances because they see the leader-led church meeting as not much more than barely interactive TV, and wish to get back to NT stylee.
Tithing? Sharing EVERYTHING is more Biblical methinx... you ever tried that?

How does someone like me, I do not live in the city where I work, and am new to a small rural community, find such a place and "visit" to see if I belong? Yes I give, but I do not count that as tithing.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

21st September 2005, 01:53 AM

How does someone like me, I do not live in the city where I work, and am new to a small rural community, find such a place and "visit" to see if I belong? Yes I give, but I do not count that as tithing.

Were you directly responding to my bit, or using it as a springboard? I think the latter... I got some mates in same situation, rural area. Their only local church is not their bag so they are a bit stuck. Having to go all Emergent but can't meet christian's outside the church meetings because christian's expect other christian's to go to their meetings to be validated.

While Jesus is in the world and so we should church it "out there", if we have no "fellowship" it is tricky. I always say, do what you think is right. Church, like anything in life, is to do with calling. What is God calling us to? It's a tricky, tricky one soemtimes, only realised through pain, loss and hurt.

If Not For Grace

21st September 2005, 11:32 AM

As I have posted before, I am still looking.. Looking for a place to fellowship and a place to learn, perhaps I am hoping for somewhere too comfortable.

but i am so tired of only realised through pain, loss and hurt

I want some of the joy and love I had in my old hometown, perhaps I am just whining, but I really feel something is missing--the absence of this "routine" that seemed to help keep me grounded. My Faith at times gets very weak and I use to find encouragement there. I need to HEAR again.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

21st September 2005, 02:33 PM

Ah fair enough. I'm with the loss myself, but I experience that in community, so I suppose I can be rightly accused of being glib. Sorry.

linssue55

24th September 2005, 11:05 AM

Totally agree. :thumbsup: If He were here NOW, He'd be whipping those tele-evangelists for doing the SAME thing...

Just when they're getting to an interesting point in their sermon, it cuts to a commerical: "I hope you enjoyed the sermon, if you want to hear the REST of it, you'll NEED to buy the tape for $30.00! God bless you" with a big, pasted on grin....

UGH.. :sick:

Totally agree. :thumbsup:

I have been studying at home for 32 years now. I get tapes from my church, and have been for all of those years, and they are ALL "FREE". It is a grace ministry, and ONLY "FREE WILL OFFERINGS" are accepted. I get 30 tapes a month, for we are taught to listen to a tape a day. Everyday is the Sabbath in the church age.

If Not For Grace

27th September 2005, 10:59 AM

I don't like the concept of tithing

Perhaps because we do not like to "owe" anyone anything? I used to say "fooey" to this too. But I think I am coming to understand that God does not need my money, time or anything else. But that it is important that I give these things so that I may have some understanding of what He has done for me and the spirit in which He did it. It is not so important what they do with the money, but how much I enjoyed giving. I do think we are suppose to enjoy it, don't you?

SNPete

27th September 2005, 11:01 AM

I want some of the joy and love I had in my old hometown, perhaps I am just whining, but I really feel something is missing--the absence of this "routine" that seemed to help keep me grounded. My Faith at times gets very weak and I use to find encouragement there. I need to HEAR again.

I don't mean this as any sort of criticism. I actually want this to be a word of encouragement, but it sounds like you were relying, to a large degree on your church to support your faith. Now I truly believe that this is one thing that churches should be doing-building and encouraging one another.

But truth be told, our center, our rock and focus is on God through Jesus. He is our source of joy and love. And Faith is something we walk in even when things don’t appear to be going as we like. Faith is trust. We please God by trusting Him. Perhaps God wants you to rely on Him for your Joy and Agape Love. Be grounded in God and Christ.

We have heard it said so many times that if seek God’s kingdom and His righteousness, He will supply our need. I believe this not only applies to material needs, but our spiritual and social needs.

If Not For Grace

27th September 2005, 11:47 AM

but it sounds like you were relying, to a large degree on your church to support your faith.

What is wrong with that when you are surrounded by "the world" Not everbody's family is christian and not all live in good communities if in communities at all. Does Faith not come from hearing???

To me, the church has been MANY things including a place where one can be taught by those perhaps more spiritually mature than me. It has also been a place where I have found I can feel cleansed (kind of like taking a shower), it has also been a place of fellowship, and more.

PS. There would not be anything wrong with having your faith supported. Paul's ministry seemed to be built on this. Sometimes Christians think you when youare born again-you are born "grown". One of the concepts of begin born again for me is realizing I need to relearn to crawl so I can walk on a better path. I need to grow and expand.

SNPete

27th September 2005, 12:09 PM

What is wrong with that when you are surrounded by "the world" Not everbody's family is christian and not all live in good communities if in communities at all. Does Faith not come from hearing???

To me, the church has been MANY things including a place where one can be taught by those perhaps more spiritually mature than me. It has also been a place where I have found I can feel cleansed (kind of like taking a shower), it has also been a place of fellowship, and more.

PS. There would not be anything wrong with having your faith supported. Paul's ministry seemed to be built on this. Sometimes Christians think you when youare born again-you are born "grown". One of the concepts of begin born again for me is realizing I need to relearn to crawl so I can walk on a better path. I need to grow and expand.I am not saying church is bad. It is just that we should look to God first. People second. There must be a church in your community taht would work for you. Why would God place you in a town with no place of fellowship?

discernomatic

27th September 2005, 01:01 PM

I am not saying church is bad. It is just that we should look to God first. People second. There must be a church in your community taht would work for you. Why would God place you in a town with no place of fellowship?
God does not always do what you think he should. I have been living in a town that has no Protestant churches whatsoever for the last four years. There is one Pentecostal church in a neighboring town and another two towns away, but I am not Pentecostal and do not intend to become so. My friends go there, but it does not appeal to me. I have been learning the language and have already been witnessing. Now I think it is time to get a bible-study group together, not necessarily for believers, but for anyone that is interested. It will be a more cozy way of witnessing than just by chance opportunity. That could also be the starting point for a new Christian group. If what you need is not at hand then maybe you have to do something to get it.

If Not For Grace

27th September 2005, 03:06 PM

Why would God place you in a town with no place of fellowship?

I never said He did. I said I am looking for one. I am sure there is one in my reach. Why is more wrong to ask for what Good people look for in a church than what they do to research a good mechanic?

The sharing of experience and pitfalls was what I was looking for from people, ideas?

One of the things that irritates me about so many "godly" people is their answer to EVERY [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] ? is just "pray and do God's will" "He will show you the path you should follow", WELL it has been my experience, that many times God uses people to communicate through.

look to God first. People second

Consider this a 2nd.
"Just as God uses people to bless and help others, Satan uses people to inflict emotional and physical pain on others. Kathy Gilbert Taylor, Author. " Signature from poster on this site.

New_Wineskin

27th September 2005, 03:50 PM

God does not always do what you think he should.

Many people seem to miss this point . :)

New_Wineskin

27th September 2005, 03:53 PM

One of the things that irritates me about so many "godly" people is their answer to EVERY [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] ? is just "pray and do God's will" "He will show you the path you should follow", WELL it has been my experience, that many times God uses people to communicate through.

And , if He speaks through people , it isn't the people that I would listen to but the Lord through them .

If Not For Grace

27th September 2005, 04:07 PM

Wineskin: You would have been the person to criticise Joseph when he asked another prisoner to "remember" him to the Pharaoh..Give me a break.

I am asking for peoples opinions or experiences in ways to search out (or avoid pitfalls) when looking for a church.

IMHO God wants us to interact. "Gather yourselves" When 2-or more" many references in the bible to groups. Over a 1/3 of the NT is letters to Churches.

One of the reasons many people seem to be "unchurched" is due to the frustration they feel when some of those whom the Lord speaks to in ONE way insist it is the ONLY way GOD'S voice can manifest. In fact in one other thread I'm reading a poster coined a phrase called spiritual abuse that I can relate too.

discernomatic

28th September 2005, 02:00 PM

I am asking for peoples opinions or experiences in ways to search out (or avoid pitfalls) when looking for a church.......a phrase called spiritual abuse that I can relate too.
To avoid pitfalls you must be discerning. A lot of it has to do with being familiar with Scripture, which I think that many like to put off. Another thing you can do is to inform yourself about known pitfalls. There are a number of discernment sites out there (some hysterical and some as mean as those they criticize) but I can recommend some. I have one which is still fairly new and raw but may do for a start: http://www.jamesfive19.com/. Also see Tricia Tillin's site, she has been in the field longer: http://www.intotruth.org/. For others I can recommend see my links page and don't forget to read the disclaimer: http://www.jamesfive19.com/Links.html. I also know of some sites for helping with spiritual abuse: http://www.wellspringretreat.org/directory.html, http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/default.htm.
Hope this helps. :)

If Not For Grace

29th September 2005, 08:58 AM

Thank you.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

30th September 2005, 03:09 AM

Just start Churching it with those around you.
It's what Jesus did, and what he told us to do.

Stuff all this dragging people into a building nonsense, just get knowing people!
It ain't rocket science (unless you're church-building on mars! - and if you are, can I reserve some spaces for me, my family, and a few mates?)

If Not For Grace

30th September 2005, 09:58 AM

nonsense ?

Sounds a little bitter and judemental IMHO, perhaps a little we could lighten up a little. Let's have a little joy. :wave:

New_Wineskin

30th September 2005, 04:33 PM

Edited to :

Wineskin: You would have been the person to criticise Joseph when he asked another prisoner to "remember" him to the Pharaoh..Give me a break.

Since you have no desire to discuss and only a desire to make personal attacks , I have used the function provided by the forum to hide your posts from my viewing . Quarrelling won't change either of our minds . :sigh:

If Not For Grace

30th September 2005, 04:59 PM

Wine: Go and sin no more... Suprise???

Heavenlyangeleyes07

30th September 2005, 07:49 PM

M Paul

1st October 2005, 10:53 AM

I am looking for a church to call my home away from home. I am looking for a church to become more involve with and where the church knows everyone. I have been to many churches and none have felt just right. Please Pray i find something soon.

Dear Lord Jesus,

Please look down on Heavenlyangeleyes07 and grant to her patience, and give her confidence that you will lead her to the right church group. Let her see that it's based on what she can contribute as much as what she will receive. Please bring her into contract with the people, who will show her where her church is. We praise you and adore you for always helping us in our need, spiritual and otherwise.

Amen

Paul

Now, if someone will add an agreement, I think Heavenlyangeleyes07 will be in church.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

1st October 2005, 11:49 AM

Copy that.

discernomatic

1st October 2005, 12:49 PM

I'm with you M Paul. Amen. Praying that God's will is manifest in your life, Heavenlyangeleyes. :)

discernomatic

Honibee

8th October 2005, 01:15 PM

discernomatic

10th October 2005, 12:43 PM

When looking for a church of fellowship, I look primarily for BIBLICAL instruction, with the motive of looking into the Word of God, to be obedient to it. It takes a real born-again heart to follow on into obedient maturity. It's too easy to use the Word to back up carnal ideas and fleshly desires. A fellowship that teaches love for the word of God will safeguard it's members from deception.

Normally I would agree with you, but I ran into a pastor that taught using expository preaching, claimed to be biblical, but tried to deceive me. His sermons were impeccable, but his demeanor with churchgoers was not. He tried to use my beliefs against me to make me conform to his way of doing church, even though I thought that his lack of love and tendency toward manipulation was not biblical. I could not conform to that. Even if the teaching was biblical, that was not a safeguard against deception.

Honibee

10th October 2005, 01:40 PM

Normally I would agree with you, but I ran into a pastor that taught using expository preaching, claimed to be biblical, but tried to deceive me. His sermons were impeccable, but his demeanor with churchgoers was not. He tried to use my beliefs against me to make me conform to his way of doing church, even though I thought that his lack of love and tendency toward manipulation was not biblical. I could not conform to that. Even if the teaching was biblical, that was not a safeguard against deception.

Absolutely, discernomatic! How unfortunate that you had to go through something like that. The essence of what I was saying is represented by this pastor (as a negative example). If we approach the Word of God, to respond in obdience to it, it will safeguard us. If your assessment of this man is accurate, he was not obedient in his manipulation.

discernomatic

10th October 2005, 02:09 PM

It takes a real born-again heart to follow on into obedient maturity.....Absolutely, discernomatic! How unfortunate that you had to go through something like that. The essence of what I was saying is represented by this pastor (as a negative example). If we approach the Word of God, to respond in obdience to it, it will safeguard us. If your assessment of this man is accurate, he was not obedient in his manipulation. I don't think that he was being obedient to God, but still cannot question whether he is born-again or not. Thankfully, that is not within human authority. Obedience to the Word of God pertains more to the spirit of the law for Christians, rather than its letter, like the Sabbath being made for man, rather than man for the Sabbath. That, for me, is freedom in Christ.

FLANDIDLYANDERS

11th October 2005, 01:40 AM

Any Church leaderwillbe prone to arrogance or manipulation - even in smallways.WhileI realisethat we are allprone tosuch things,it is sad tosay tht Church "Members" tend to take a passive rolein many things,believing that to follow a leader is to believe everything they say and do what they say.

My question is this: was Jesus a leader?

My answer to this would be influenced by the fact that he disappeared just after he'dproven he couldrise fromthe dead,and left his HolySpirit and freedomfrom sin behind for us all to have! I wouldsay that Jesus was moreof a cloner,who deliberately introduced inferior DNA (us) into the sequence to allow evolution.

Looking for a Church? Orlooking for a leader? Any one else on "Was/is Jesus a leader?"