Question on Eternal Security

[Behe's Boy]

Just curious to know the Lutheran stand on "eternal security." Do all Lutheran denominations believe that you can loose salvation or do any believe that you can't?

Thanks ya'll....

[Protoevangel]

"Verse 4, "Ye are fallen from grace." That means you are no longer in the kingdom or condition of grace. When a person on board ship falls into the sea and is drowned it makes no difference from which end or side of the ship he falls into the water. Those who fall from grace perish no matter how they go about it. ... The words, "Ye are fallen from grace," must not be taken lightly. They are important. To fall from grace means to lose the atonement, the forgiveness of sins, the righteousness, liberty, and life which Jesus has merited for us by His death and resurrection. To lose the grace of God means to gain the wrath and judgment of God, death, the bondage of the devil, and everlasting condemnation."
- Martin Luther, Commentary on Galatians, 5:4

[LilLamb219]

Lutherans believe what the Bible teaches in that we can indeed fall from faith.

[BigNorsk]

There is an important passage on this in Hebrews.

Hebrews 6:4-6 NET
(4) For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
(5) tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age,
(6) and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.

The passage seems to pretty clearly teach that people were saved for it would be hard to understand how "partakers of the Holy Spirit" who have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift are not saved. It also says they can't be renewed to repentance. So it would be difficult to see them as saved at that point, because that would mean you have a person living a most unholy life, and denying God himself, who can't be made to see that he is doing wrong.

The commonly taught "they were never saved in the first place" is totally contrary to this passage.

Marv

[JCrawf]

I am happy to say that from at least one article I have read that Luther himself seemed to have taught the Christian orthodoxy of the matter in teaching about perseverance. Or, in Luther's own words:

"We have now heard enough what toil and labor is required to retain all that for which we pray, and to persevere therein, which, however, is not achieved without infirmities and stumbling. Besides, although we have received forgiveness and a good conscience and are entirely acquitted, yet is our life of such a nature that one stands to-day and to-morrow falls. Therefore, even though we be godly now and stand before God with a good conscience, we must pray again that He would not suffer us to relapse and yield to trials and temptations. ... Then comes the devil, inciting and provoking in all directions, but especially agitating matters that concern the conscience and spiritual affairs, namely, to induce us to despise and disregard both the Word and works of God to tear us away from faith, hope, and love and bring us into misbelief, false security, and obduracy, or, on the other hand, to despair, denial of God, blasphemy, and innumerable other shocking things. These are indeed snares and nets, yea, real fiery darts which are shot most venomously into the heart, not by flesh and blood, but by the devil. Great and grievous, indeed, are these dangers and temptations which every Christian must bear, even though each one were alone by himself, so that every hour that we are in this vile life where we are attacked on all sides, chased and hunted down, we are moved to cry out and to pray that God would not suffer us to become weary and faint and to relapse into sin, shame, and unbelief. For otherwise it is impossible to overcome even the least temptation. This, then, is leading us not into temptation, to wit, when He gives us power and strength to resist, the temptation, however, not being taken away or removed. For while we live in the flesh and have the devil about us, no one can escape temptation and allurements; and it cannot be otherwise than that we must endure trials, yea, be engulfed in them; but we pray for this, that we may not fall and be drowned in them." (Martin Luther, Large Catechism XII, On the Lord's Prayer, 6th Petition).

To read more of the article, you can find it here:

http://www.pfrs.org/osas/index.html

Peace be with you,

John

[C.F.W. Walther]

Acts 14
22Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts16
33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[Behe's Boy]

Thanks ya'll - I didn't want to get into a debate on what Luther taught - I was just curious what Lutherans believed on the subject - is all.

[ByzantineDixie]

Thanks ya'll - I didn't want to get into a debate on what Luther taught - I was just curious what Lutherans believed on the subject - is all.

No debate here! This is actually one thing that ALL flavors of Lutherans believe.

EDIT: I didn't mean you couldn't debate here...you surely can. Don't worry, our forum rules are a little different than OBOB. I just meant that all Lutherans believe that it is possible to despise the grace we have been given and fall from faith. Lutherans are definitely not OSAS.

[JCrawf]

Don't worry, our forum rules are a little different than OBOB. I just meant that all Lutherans believe that it is possible to despise the grace we have been given and fall from faith. Lutherans are definitely not OSAS.

Though I've been posting only recently, it does seem that OBOB is sometimes a bit loose on their rules anyways. At least I can't say that debating doesn't go on and that is is strictly regulated to prevent it. ;)

Anyways, love your avatar. :thumbsup:

Pax Tecum,

John