Tithing [Archive] - Page 2 - Christian Forums

BeforeThereWas

26th September 2005, 11:58 AM

Scripturage?
I'm not going to say I disagree yet since I haven't read what you're referring to (or at least don't remember it). And I just didn't quite understand precisely what you were talking about before, which is why you may have found my post off the "point".

~A

Yes. I understand, and I wouldn't ask anything less. What I would encourage you to do is to do a study on the OT tithe; specifically, what it was and what it was used for. It doesn't take very long because the Law was very specific. Also, study about the giving in the NT. Pay particular attention as to what that giving was used for as well, and compare that to the OT Law. I think you will see within both that the direction of the primary portion of people's giving went FIRST for the meeting of needs, not real estate, buildings, programs, etc., like we see going on today. There is all manner of hype coming from pulpits all over the country, and they don't want you to do your own study on this, and to accept the word of God for what it says. They want you to listen to them, and blindly believe what they say.

They have all kinds of slick-sounding appologetics for you to give to them the primary portion of your giving, which is not a problem in and of itself. The problem is that most institutions abuse that portion by spending some to most of it on their own expenditures and expansion projects and programs rather than meeting needs. This clearly goes against biblical examples and commands.

Now, many will argue that the Gospel worker is worthy of the support of the people to whom he ministers. This is not about the worker, this is about the primary portion of believer's giving being used for buildings and lawn care, for example, none of which feed the hungry nor house the poor. They have poured billions into building projects, all of which will burn with this earth in that last day.

There is much blood on the hands of organized religion's leadership, the blood of those who suffered because the leadership thought they had the right to rob God by robbing the poor, and using those resources for buildings and programs rather than being consistent with the very Book they claim to follow.

BTW

VintonVonBayne

26th September 2005, 03:22 PM

definitley somthing we should do, but its so hard to remember for me... i almost always forget, but i keep track of how much i owe God so when i forget for like 3 weeks i usually end up giving alot lol.

Kalibeth

26th September 2005, 03:59 PM

I don't tithe because I am only 14 and don't have any money except what my parents give me. My mom and dad usually give me and my sis Kaitlyn some money each week to put in the plate. My parents also believe in tithing.

Christ's Love To All, Kalibeth

BeforeThereWas

28th September 2005, 10:34 PM

definitley somthing we should do

Well, as long as your meaing is in reference to yourself, I have no problem with this. If you mean that ALL of us should be tithing, then I would have to ask where you get that from God's word.

BTW

BeachBlonde

29th September 2005, 01:14 AM

I give to my church because there are needs there,not because I am expected to.

godisgr8

29th September 2005, 06:27 PM

Yes

BeforeThereWas

2nd October 2005, 05:21 PM

I give to my church because there are needs there,not because I am expected to.

That's great. I have no problem with people giving to their church so long as that giving is secondary to meeting needs. It's almost guarenteed that most church organizations abuse the primary portion of believer's giving. This is wrong, but will go uncorrected because of the sin of institutional pride, institutional avarice, and abject biblical ignorance on the part of most congregant members. This is sad. :cry:

BTW

HisJavajunkie

2nd October 2005, 08:19 PM

Yes, tithing is a Old Testament command. But I believe that God is still calling us to do it. However if we are unable to give financially, then we could give in service to Him. God knows the heart and that is all that is important. That is why He was pleased with Able and not with Cain. Because Cain didn't follow the command nor was his heart [Cain's] pleasing to Him.

Oblivious

4th October 2005, 04:26 PM

Tithing = Old Testament

Giving as we prosper = New Testament

CaptainMercy

4th October 2005, 04:36 PM

Some say tithing is just for the old testament. Some say tithing applies today too. Why shouldn't we tithe? :confused:

Because we hate God and don't care!
Because we don't believe His word!
Because we are afraid of what will happen to the money and how it will be spent!
Because we are out of peanut butter!

Need more dum excuses?

Why should we tithe?:confused:

Because it is right!
Because we are instructed in His word to so so!
Because He pronounced a blessing on those who through love for Him obey His word!

One question for you! Are you a tither Droobie? PM me if you don't want to answer that on here. It wil be kept confidential. Your fellow soldier of the Light.

BV:cool:

Rome

4th October 2005, 05:04 PM

I tithe and tithe is right.:prayer: You should tithe

bill'swife

4th October 2005, 08:23 PM

yes

4square

5th October 2005, 04:56 AM

If by tithing you mean 10% - then NO I don't....

I give quality giving not necessarily a quantity....however having said that sometimes I give more and sometimes less than 10% - but the point is its not the amount its the spirit or the heart and quality of our giving...the willingness and humility behind our offerings.

- Chris. :)

BeforeThereWas

5th October 2005, 07:33 AM

Yes, tithing is a Old Testament command. But I believe that God is still calling us to do it.

Really? Where? If He is calling us to it, then there must be something to which we can look for verification, or are you talking about feelings? Where do you believe God is calling people to give their tithe? To organized religion, so it can gobble most of it up for their own benefit? Is that God's ideal? I can say that it's not, and I have scripture on my side, which is vastly more substantial than mere assumption or feelings.

However if we are unable to give financially, then we could give in service to Him. God knows the heart and that is all that is important.

Wait a minute, first you say that God wants us to tithe, but not where, and then you say that what's in our hearts is all that is important. You can't have it both ways. Uzzah found that out the hard way. You are either obedience to what He wants, or you are not. What's in one's heart makes no difference where obedience is concerned. There is no such thing as partial obedience, just like there is no such things as being partially pregnant (Right ladies? Can I get an AMEN?).

That is why He was pleased with Able and not with Cain. Because Cain didn't follow the command nor was his heart [Cain's] pleasing to Him.

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that an apples and oranges comparison proves nothing. What Abel and Cain offered had nothing to do with tithing, its definition, or any requirement to do so. Any assumption along that line is easily torn apart by scripture itself.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

5th October 2005, 07:53 AM

Because we hate God and don't care!

Well, let's examine these for what they really are, shall we? This one, for example, is an extreme, which proves nothing except that so-called athiests might agree.

Because we don't believe His word!

This is always an easy supposition to cast about blindly, but without reference (since there is none). It's just a spout of one's bilge without meaningful and thoughtful direction. It reveals a hardened, legalistic, stiff-necked, judgmental spirit that finds license behind every door and around every corner to add into God's word what simply isn't there.

Because we are afraid of what will happen to the money and how it will be spent!

It's interesting how legalists talk about stewardship, but never actually apply the full implcations of that term by way of their thinking that it's fine to give blindly. They gladly plop their "tithe" into the passing plate, never giving a thought to the fact that most institutions abuse the primary portion of believer's giving. What a testimony to the unbeliever. What a testimony to the angels of Heaven. What a testimony to young children to observe such blatant disregard for loving God's word more than false teachings.

Because we are out of peanut butter!

Well, a little humor does help make sassy nonsense more palletable. :doh:Sass always proves a good point, right?

Need more dum excuses?

Absolutely. You're on a role...

Because it is right!

For whom? If you're talking about yourself, then that's fine, but when making this a blanket statement, I would have to see your backing.

Because we are instructed in His word to so so!

Mere statements without supporting reference, IN CONTEXT and consistent, prove nothing.

Because He pronounced a blessing on those who through love for Him obey His word!

To the nation Israel, yes. Malachi was addressing a people who were still under the Law. Are you under the Law? If so, then you are in for a rude awakening.

One question for you! Are you a tither Droobie? PM me if you don't want to answer that on here. It wil be kept confidential. Your fellow soldier of the Light.

I don't know about Droobie, but I'm not a tither to institutional religious organizations. Why should I be? You can't show me one place where the tithe was used for ANYTHING but the meeting of needs and festival celebrations before the Lord. If you think you can find such a reference, therefore putting something of substance behind your snide remarks, then, baby, let's see them. Put something behind your words besides just general rhetoric that proves nothing.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

5th October 2005, 07:59 AM

I tithe and tithe is right.:prayer: You should tithe

What authorizes you to lay that requirement upon others? Do you have supporting scripture, in context, and that is consistent?

BTW

5solas

5th October 2005, 08:15 AM

What authorizes you to lay that requirement upon others? Do you have supporting scripture, in context, and that is consistent?

BTW

good point

it's written:

2Co 9:6 (ESV) The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 2Co 9:7 (ESV) Each one must give as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

2Co 9:6 (AV) But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 (AV) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

No percentages, no exact sums - just give generously with a cheerful heart! That's the freedom we have!

5th October 2005, 08:51 AM

Let's look at this situation.
Why should we tithe? It appears in the Bible that tithing is instituted before the law. That would be with Abraham's gift to the King of Salem.
We see tithing is evident within the law throughout the sacrifices.
We see tithing in the prophet's. This is best illustrated by Malachi who in one verse tells us that God does not change, but is ever the same. Then he informs us of robbing God. This is a major tie
Still the best issue for tithing is Jesus who tells the Pharisees that they should tithe (Luke 11:42). The fact that the Pharisees sinned in justice displayes that tithing does not save, but before God it still should be done.

Luke 11:42

"'But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and herbs of all kinds, and neglect justice and the love of God; it is these you ought to have practiced, without neglecting the others."

I don't see Jesus telling the Ph. to tithe...I hear this as Jesus condemning them for hiding behind tithing while ignoring justice. The "neglecting the others" part does not seem to be referring to tithing, but rather, their duties to the lay members.

5th October 2005, 08:52 AM

Voted "no." There is nothing in Jesus' words that tells me to tithe. Rather, there is a better commandment, to give as led by the Holy Spirit. Tithing was the main extortion tool of the Temples.

cheering4jesus

7th October 2005, 11:44 PM

Yes parents have taught me to Tithe what little money I have.

Love Jess

Interesting2me

8th October 2005, 08:35 AM

Right now, I'm temporally gleaning the edges of the fields, symbolically speaking. I believe tithing is scriptural, as is free will offering, "love offering" , missionary offerings, etc, & other means of giving "unblemished" offerings to Echad/God [the widow's mite, included], especially when done as a cheerful giver, having purposed what you give in your heart.

In tithing, it's the gross earnings [first fruit] of all one's increase [10% is minimal]. "Can't beat Echad/God giving"! Sowing reaping, seedtime & harvest. "according to your faith, be it unto you"!

BeforeThereWas

8th October 2005, 09:13 AM

Luke 11:42

"'But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and herbs of all kinds, and neglect justice and the love of God; it is these you ought to have practiced, without neglecting the others."

I don't see Jesus telling the Ph. to tithe...I hear this as Jesus condemning them for hiding behind tithing while ignoring justice. The "neglecting the others" part does not seem to be referring to tithing, but rather, their duties to the lay members.

Well, actually He did tell them that they should tithe without leaving the weightier matters of the Law undone. However, those pharasees and all the other people at that particular point in time were also still under the Law, which included the tithe, which was defined as a tenth of all the increase from crops and [/b]herds[/b], not earned wages.

I have asked on other tithing threads if anyone can show me where the ancient Israelites were required, according to the Law, to hand over a tenth of their wages to the Levites, and not one verse was ever produced by one single soul, even though emotional argumentation flowed like there was no tomorrow. Some pointed at the widow who cast in her last two mites. Well, the temple treasury had nothing to do with the tithe, considering that the tithe is a central theme today for "church" giving within most institutions. The arguments put forth were all an interesting exercise in lingual gymnastics, all based upon gross ignorance of Jewish history and actual biblical language and teaching.

I agree with 5solas' quote of the scriptures where it is a matter of giving cheerfully and from a heart to give, but I am forced to reject any and all notions of misrepresentations of what scripture actually teaches in relation to the tithe. I also am forced to reject, based upon scripture, the idea of organized religion being the rightful depository of believers' primary giving since the vast majority of them absorb some to most of that portion for their own expenditures and expansion. How people can support, with a clear conscience, such gross disobedience to the commands and examples of scripture clearly escapes my comprehension.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

8th October 2005, 09:22 AM

Yes parents have taught me to Tithe what little money I have.

Love Jess

Jess, you should indeed honor your parents, and their wishes for you. However, the day is coming soon for you when you will have to make your own decisions based upon your own study of God's word, and if you choose to tithe, then that's fine. However, the traditional practice of not exercising good strewardship as to where one gives is a tragedy that has been playing itself out for far too long. Study the tithe of the OT, and you will see God's heart for that primary portion of the people's giving. You will see that 100% of it went for meeting needs and for festival celebrations before the Lord. Not one morsal went for the temple's upkeep and expenditures like we see organized religion perpetrating today.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

8th October 2005, 09:38 AM

Right now, I'm temporally gleaning the edges of the fields, symbolically speaking.

Me too. Corporate, executive greed reared its ugle head and bit many of us in this town, so I'm out trying to get by until the Lord leads me elsewhere.

I believe tithing is scriptural,

As long as it is a personal thing, I agree. I agree that it is taught as a requirement upon the Israelites when they were under the Law.

In tithing, it's the gross earnings [first fruit] of all one's increase [10% is minimal]. "Can't beat Echad/God giving"! Sowing reaping, seedtime & harvest. "according to your faith, be it unto you"!

The problem here is the "gross earnings" stuff. This smacks of the legalistic bent that argues the pro-required-tithing side, which finds no support from within scripture. If you study the OT tithe, you will see that it is defined ONLY as the INCREASE of the fields, vineyards, orchards, herds and flocks. Not one mention is made anywhere in scripture of the tithe being a tenth of the wages earned by wage earners. Organized religion is mostly responsible for the continuance of this historically false teaching that the tithe was of one's wages.

Additionally, the widow's mite had nothing to do with the tithe. What she gave was an offering into the temple treasury. The tithe was not money, as is assumed by many. She also was a Jew who came into close proximity of the Lord of Glory. Her being a Jew may be an indicator that she too rejected the blood of Christ. We don't know for sure, but the many assumptions I have seen about that one woman clearly are based upon no factual information provided to us. Jesus pointed at her giving, not at her salvation, considering that they are mutually exclusive of one another. We cannot give our way into Heaven. That is a works-based salvation, which is false.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

9th October 2005, 09:19 AM

Some folks tithe faithfully to organizations they trust will meet needs with every bit of their primary giving, and they do so cheerfully, and that's fantastic. Others give knowing scripture does not demand that they tithe today, especially to organized religion. Still others perpetrate a Homer Simpson style of argumentation, which is mostly emotional argumentation that we are all commanded by God's word to tithe from the gross, others say from the net, but to tithe nonetheless, and to give it to religious institutions, most of which abuse the primary portion of believer's giving by utilizing some to most of it for their own expenditures and expansion.

Opposing views cannot all be right, and the debate goes on. If one were to just sit back and put aside all their biases about tithing, and read the word of God for what is says, taking all things into consideration, things like context and timeframe, such as when the tithe was addressed (before or after the establishment of the New Covenant), to whom it was addressed, the purpose the tithe and its reference served, who was authorized to collect tithes, who was authorized to partake of the tithe, what happened to those authorized to collect the tithe, taking all these and other things into consideration, perhaps there might be more continuity between all the views.

Homer Simpson believes whatever he hears from others he admires so long as it appeals to his emotional state and frame of mind, regardless of whether what he hears aligns itself with solid, coherent logic, reason, context, timeframe, such as what might be written about it in an external authority to himself that is not under his personal control, and inspired by God, Who also is not under Homer's personal control.

If opposing views don't line up with one another, then there is an answer for which we don't have to await the return of Christ to be resolved. The answers lie within the framework of scripture, and those answers do not need anyone to defend them, unless some people's application is inconsistent with the rules of proper, legitimate interpretation. Many people think they can subjectively ignore those elements of the text that happen to render their interpretation null and void. That has a name, which happens to be called dishonesty. Those who practice this level of interpretational skill are pretty much outside the realm of legitimate argumentation, and are authorities only unto themselves, and therefore have nothing meaningful to contribute to the discussion.

This is what is called "cutting to the chase." There are already more than enough straw men and red herrings floating around in the cesspools of false argumentation, false interpretation, so, leaving those behind where they belong, productive discussion can indeed spring forth from the soil of scriptural fertility.

Emotional argumentation is perhaps one of the most difficult of styles to dispatch, for it causes the perpetrator to shut out all else that might bring continuity and balance to their arguments. Any time an individual operates from that style, they shut out what might be a far greater enrichment to their understanding than anything they have ever known. Alas, emotionalism is itself irrational and incoherent in the arena of exploration to find answers to difficult questions. It tends to be more reactionary than thoughtful, which pretty much characterizes the inability of its adherents to see beyond the mists and fogs of emotionalism with which they shroud themselves.

May productive discussion spring forth from a balanced platform of a profound love for truth, no matter how painful it may prove to be to our pride.

BTW

Sisof8

9th October 2005, 10:28 PM

yes, i give at least 10% bc i think it's biblical and right, but even if it wasnt like i had to i still would.

BeforeThereWas

10th October 2005, 12:16 AM

yes, i give at least 10% bc i think it's biblical and right, but even if it wasnt like i had to i still would.

So, it doesn't bother you that your church might be using the primary portion of your giving for things that clearly go against biblical examples and commands? Does the Bible play any part in your church's teachings, or in your life?

BTW

GlobalNomad1960

10th October 2005, 01:51 PM

The New Testement says to give graciously and with joy.

BeforeThereWas

10th October 2005, 04:23 PM

The New Testement says to give graciously and with joy.

This is true.

It is equally true that giving also involves the exercise of responsibility (stewardship) rather than performing it blindly.

So, the fact remains that organized religion mostly abuses the primary portion of its people's giving.

What does that say about those people?

Joy is not a legitimate substitute for exercising responsibility in one's giving.

BTW

Called2Grace

10th October 2005, 09:13 PM

someone_else

10th October 2005, 11:01 PM

BeforeThereWas

11th October 2005, 07:38 AM

I am a new Christian and have a question concerning tithing. I would like to give something back, and I want to know what is acceptable to God. Does is have to be min 10% or can I start small and work my way up? Does it have to be in Church or can I donate to certain charities and groups that help the disadvantaged?

Thanks,

Michelle

Michelle, different people would answer this in different ways. Religionists will say that giving first and foremost to your "church" is a primary duty. What they seem to be missing is something that you can read and verify for yourself within scripture rather than simply taking my or anyone else's word for it.

First of all, you will hear much about "tithing" throughout your life in Christ here in this fallen world. If you do a systematic study of the Old Testament tithe, it was a tenth of the INCREASE of the produce from crops and a tenth of the INCREASE from the herds and flocks. Nowhere are we told that a tenth of one's wages was handed over to the Levites. Why? Simply because one's wages are an EXCHANGE, not a form of INCREASE. One had to EXCHANGE his/her time and labor for money. The money you earned is nowhere classified as a form of INCREASE in the word of God. 100% of the tithe went for meeting the needs of people, and for the festival celebrations before the Lord, not for real estate and buildings.

Secondly, one will search the New Testament in vain to find where the believers of the early Church paid a tithe for the acquisition, construction, and upkeep of real estate and buildings. The primary portion of their giving went for the meeting of needs, and some to help support those who labored in the Gospel, most of whom were itinerant (on the move as opposed to stationary, contrary to popular belief).

Now, there is nothing wrong with helping to support the institution you attend, but the priority in giving is really messed up these days. Support of organized religion should always be secondary to the meeting of needs. The Bible shows us the first 10% going for the meeting of needs, which today may be a charity, or even your neighbor down the street who lost her job. Meeting needs is foremost in the Lord's mind, as is exemplified in His written word, not supporting religious organizations. Support of your church should always be secondary in our giving, and should be given outside your church because most churches do not use that primary portion for the meeting of needs. There is all manner of argumentation over this because most people have never taken the time to read their Bibles and study this subject. Most of what they know came from men standing behind pulpits wanting that primary portion for their own use for the institution, and some for their own wealth.

The acid test is simple: I have nothing to gain from you doing what is consistent with the scriptures, because you are not going to give it to me, but rather to those whom the Lord leads you to give for the meeting of their needs. If I were the dude standing behind that pulpit, then I would have something to gain by your disobeying the word of God because your money would then be coming to me. Not all mininsters teach this form of disobedience to the word of God. Some are honest and teach according to what is written, but many do not. The answer lies within what I have already said; we live in a fallen world.

Study your Bible, therefore exercising proper responsibility for what you choose to believe rather than sit back and let someone else dictate to you what you should believe. Don't take my word for it. 1 John 2:27 says it all. Yes, there is value in hearing the word of God to bring one to salvation, but the buck ultimately stops with each individual as to what he/she decides to accpet and what to reject.

Perhaps you were seeking an easy answer. All I did was place upon your shoulders the responsibility of your own beliefs by you having to read the word of God for yourself. I will never apologize for encouraging people to study their Bibles rather than allow themselves to be led ONLY by other people and by the many misleading "Bible Study Guides." Some are good, many are not.

It's too easy to say, "Oh, yes. Tithe to your church, and then give to charity afterward." The tithe of ancient Israel went for meeting the needs of the Levites, priests, orphans, widows and strangers in the land. Doing anything apart from that would have been robbery of God because it would then have taken provision away from those in need. The wickedness of today's practices, based upon false teachings, speaks for itself.

If a church organization cannot afford to survive by its being supported secondarily from its people's giving, then its expenditures are simply too high. That is bad stewardship. Such a church organization needs new leadership, or the people need to walk away from it. One thing you will learn in your spiritual walk through this life is that subtle disobedience is an easy trap to fall into. Paul in the Bible called it "missing the mark," which is how he defined "sin". Oh yes, we can still hit somewhere on the target itself, but missing the mark on that target is less than what God expects of us. That doesn't mean that we are playing darts. The Lord gives us the ability to hit that mark. The difference is whether we do as we should with what He has given to us. Most prefer to follow after men and their traditions rather than to walk ONLY on that path layed out by scripture.

Beware. If you do only what the word of God directs you to do, you will be labeled as a "free-thinker," or a "renegade," or something along that line. Well, guess what? Jesus was expected to stand up against the Romans by leading the nation of Israel into rebellion to freedom. It didn't happen. They were sorely disappointed when Jesus came only to die for our sins. They have missed out on so much because of their having missed the mark. We too are missing out on so much because of the disobedience and the division among professing believers.

What a tragedy indeed.

BTW

someone_else

11th October 2005, 08:30 AM

BeforeThereWas

11th October 2005, 08:42 AM

the problem i have with your post is that you have just lumped every church into a catagorty of not using money to meet needs. i find that rather um WRONG.

and coz im really tired and sick of agrumentative people im going to bed

I did not say ALL churches are that way. Please read my posts for what they say. If stating what the word of God actually teaches on a subject classifies me as being "argumentative people," then I accept that label on that basis. However, since you grossly misrepresented my post by assuming it to be completely blanket, your assesment is completely without merit.

BTW

PreacherMike

11th October 2005, 04:26 PM

Good point. Only problem: In order to keep the tithe, you must also keep the rest of the law. The same who said tithe one-tenth of your increase also said that you should be circumsized. There are 10 commandments, but also over 600 other laws. Which of those will we decide to pick next?

The tithe was never part of the Law...that's the whole point... Abraham knew about tithing hundreds of years before (God through) Moses instituted it in the Law...

BeforeThereWas

11th October 2005, 04:34 PM

The tithe was never part of the Law...that's the whole point... Abraham knew about tithing hundreds of years before (God through) Moses instituted it in the Law...

What do you mean by "Abraham knew about tithing hundreds of years before (God through) Moses instituted it in the Law"? What was Abraham acting upon? Was there some requirement he was going by? Did the Lord tell him to tithe? Why didn't he tithe from his own property? Why isn't Abraham's tithe mimicked anywhere else in scripture?

BTW

PreacherMike

11th October 2005, 05:07 PM

What do you mean by "Abraham knew about tithing hundreds of years before (God through) Moses instituted it in the Law"? What was Abraham acting upon? Was there some requirement he was going by?

Heb 7:1-3 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham. But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

I don't know how Abraham knew it but he did...

Hispath

11th October 2005, 05:38 PM

Our goal is to be at 10 percent tithe in January.

God does not want us to suffer hardships, but does want us to show that we love, praise, and worship Him. He has given us everything that we are and have.

I also believe that the tithe is more than money. I believe we need to give of not just our money, but our time and energy as well. Whether it be taking a leadership position within the church, helping with functions, maintainence, etc.

We need to give with a gracious and willing heart.

Try reading the parable of the talents. Matthew 25: 14-30
The Parable of the Talents

14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.

19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'

21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'

23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

There will be a time when we will have to account for all that God has given us. Not just of our material possessions, but of ourselves as well. I hope that I will hear, "Well done My faithful servant!"

Crosscarrier23

11th October 2005, 09:24 PM

We should tithe simply because it is right. We get so much from God that it is only right to do our part in financing His work. Really any amount helps, but 10% is not the maximum you can give. Besides the money we have is really God's money. We are His money managers. He lets us spend 90% of His money and only asks for 10%. How cool is that!

Yogi Bear

13th October 2005, 02:06 AM

if i have money i will tith it. you do get blessed by it, i just got blessed the other day, for a full day, but i still tithed a certain amount of it. also dont think of it as something ur doing just to get blessed do it because you want to extend the kingdom of god.

cat has felt the light!

13th October 2005, 12:22 PM

i cant say yes or no for sure, I give some in collection plates at church when possible and giveto other charities whenever I can but not an exact percentage as such!
kitten xx

BeforeThereWas

13th October 2005, 09:41 PM

Heb 7:1-3

Heb 7:5

I don't know how Abraham knew it but he did...

Well I was hoping you had something concrete, because your assumption sounded interesting, but the verses you quoted simply did not answer how you know that Abraham was acting upon a compulsory requirement. The nation of Israel did not follow Abraham's example when they had spoils from war. One instance shows us only 1/50th being given to the Levites, and 1/500th given to the priests. So if Abraham was under compulsion to tithe to Melchizedek, then it seems reasonable that the nation would have followeed suit, but they did not.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

13th October 2005, 09:48 PM

We should tithe simply because it is right.

I agree that it is right for those who desire to use that as the standard for their giving.

We get so much from God that it is only right to do our part in financing His work.

That depends on what you are calling "His work."

We are His money managers.

That's too bad. He has made me an heir with Him. If you don't see yourself as being any more than a money manager for Him, then I putty you.;)

He lets us spend 90% of His money and only asks for 10%. How cool is that!

That's very UNcool, because that blanket statement is based upon what you have heard from others rather than what the word of God teaches. Do you have a reference?

BTW

BeforeThereWas

13th October 2005, 10:03 PM

i cant say yes or no for sure, I give some in collection plates at church when possible and giveto other charities whenever I can but not an exact percentage as such!
kitten xx

It is always better to meet needs with our giving before we give to those things from which we directly benefit, such as organized religion.

BTW

cat has felt the light!

15th October 2005, 06:56 AM

It is always better to meet needs with our giving before we give to those things from which we directly benefit, such as organized religion.

BTW

I'm sory I'm confused lols. I give much more to charities than any religious organization, my church collects to help others! anyways I think I'm agreeing with you, but please tell me if I'm not!
kitten xxx

PreacherMike

15th October 2005, 11:24 AM

Well I was hoping you had something concrete, because your assumption sounded interesting, but the verses you quoted simply did not answer how you know that Abraham was acting upon a compulsory requirement.
BTW

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King...

This is concrete...

Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils...

This also is concrete...

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham...

This also is concrete...

God bless, Mike.

BeforeThereWas

15th October 2005, 08:40 PM

I'm sory I'm confused lols. I give much more to charities than any religious organization, my church collects to help others! anyways I think I'm agreeing with you, but please tell me if I'm not!
kitten xxx

I think we pretty much agree. I have no problem with people supporting their church organization secondarily...although I'm sure pro-required-tithing defenders will disagree. :D

BTW

BeforeThereWas

15th October 2005, 08:52 PM

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King...

This is concrete...

I think you missed the point. I can do something without it being a requirement. The above verse speaks of absolutely no requirement for Abraham to give Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils. If you can show me such a verse, then I would very much like to see it.

Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils...

This also is concrete...

Yes, I agree. However, this speaks of no requirement upon which Abraham was compelled to hand over a tenth of property that was not his in the first place...property he certainly did not need because he was already wealthy.

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham...

This also is concrete...

Yes. The sons of Levi were commanded to collect the tithe according to the Law that was written down by Moses long after Abraham had passed from this earth.

Again, these references fail to back your statement that Abraham was compelled to hand over a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek. They concretely speak of his doing so, but none of these references speak of his doing so on the basis of any requirement. Can you show me this requirement. Repetition and emphasis upon the same fallacy will not add weight to your assumption. I was hoping that you had something that spoke specifically of an alleged requirement upon which Abraham acted, and you have not yet produced such a command or example stating such. Yes, he did it, but I don't see anything in what you presented that speaks to my question.

BTW

PreacherMike

16th October 2005, 01:21 AM

Again, these references fail to back your statement that Abraham was compelled to hand over a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek.

Repetition and emphasis upon the same fallacy will not add weight to your assumption. I was hoping that you had something that spoke specifically of an alleged requirement upon which Abraham acted, and you have not yet produced such a command or example stating such. Yes, he did it, but I don't see anything in what you presented that speaks to my question.

Firstly I never said he was compelled I just said he did it...

And it is not an assumption...the scriptures say he did it...

God bless, Mike.

BeforeThereWas

16th October 2005, 09:33 AM

Firstly I never said he was compelled I just said he did it...

And it is not an assumption...the scriptures say he did it...

Well, Mike, back in post #287 you said, "...Abraham knew about tithing hundreds of years before..."

This was spoken in reference to Moses penning that requirement long after after Abraham, just to keep from being accused of taking your quote out of context.

Then, in post #288, I asked how you know that Abraham was required to give Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils, and you responded in post #289 with this in response to my question, "I don't know how Abraham knew it but he did..."

And now you're trying to back-pedal on what you clearly did say, as is evidenced by the record. Mike, you can't have it both ways. You started out implying that Abraham was required to give that tenth, in that he KNEW it, even though you didn't know how, and now you're trying to say that you didn't say that. Come on, Mike! Read what you implied in response to my specific question. You left me no other conclusion but to understand that you believed Abraham was acting upon a compulsory requirement.

It appears that you discovered your error by having painted yourself into a corner. I agreed with you that Abraham did in fact give Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils. Only a fool would deny that, but you continued stressing your point in the face of my specific question. A spade is a spade, Mike.

BTW

PreacherMike

16th October 2005, 11:46 AM

Heb 7:1-9 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Again I am trying to find where I said he was compelled...I never said he was compelled I just said he knew...How did he tithe if he didn't know...

How do you figure I painted myself into a corner the scripture said he tithed so obviously he knew about tihing...I didn't say he didn't know what I said was I don't know how he knew...why don't you just read the scripture I gave you and stop arguing over words...it says he tithed...I don't know how he knew he just did...I can't help you anymore after that...God bless...Mike.

BeforeThereWas

18th October 2005, 11:48 AM

Again I am trying to find where I said he was compelled...I never said he was compelled I just said he knew...How did he tithe if he didn't know...

Ok, Mike. I'll play along. What did he know? What was it that he knew in order to hand over a tenth of the spoils? Where else was tithing going on in order to Abraham to have known about? Why did it have to be a pre-established practicve in order for him to do it, rather than doing it on his own, without any knowledge of it being done before this event?

How do you figure I painted myself into a corner the scripture said he tithed so obviously he knew about tihing...

He knew about tithing in what manner? That it was a requirement? That it was expected of him? What? You left us with nothing more to go on than to assume that you inferred that there was some sort of compulsory, expecational, requirement for him to hand over a tehnth of the spoils. Look, any of us can do something off-the-cuff without it having to have been a requirement, social norm, or anything else. So what was it that he knew at the time that he gave a tenth of the spoils?

I didn't say he didn't know what I said was I don't know how he knew...

But you are dictating that he had to know.....WHAT before handing over a tenth of the spoils? You are being very vague.

why don't you just read the scripture I gave you and stop arguing over words...it says he tithed...I don't know how he knew he just did...I can't help you anymore after that...God bless...Mike.

This is still evasive. Those verses said nothing about his knowing this elusive thing that he "knew" before giving. Can you at least tell us that this thing is that he had to have "known" before giving? Why could his giving not have simply been something new and novel for that day?

BTW

PreacherMike

18th October 2005, 02:43 PM

Kathryn13

18th October 2005, 08:37 PM

Yes, our family does

BeforeThereWas

19th October 2005, 05:40 AM

This is a futile arguement I believe ths scripture says the handed a tenth of the spoils to Melchisedec and that he paid tithes...after that I don't know...I said I don't know...if you can't accept the scripture then I can't help you...God bless, Mike.

I'm not trying to get under your skin over this, just your mind in understanding why you think Abraham gave a tenth based upon something he allegedly "knew". I already agreed with you that he did it, but beyond that we know nothing more. You stated that he "knew" something, and yet you don't know what. Well, that leaves us all wondering about this insight that is nowhere in the text. You can withdraw that one statement, and everything is cool with me. However, if you stand behind it, then the question remains. This was never about the fact that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek. I agree with you.

I just wanted to know more about that one pesky little statement you added that, thus far, you have evaded with admirable effort.

BTW

PreacherMike

20th October 2005, 01:40 AM

There are a lot of things in the OT that people knew...as to how they knew we can only speculate...Abel offered the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof... ok we assume Adam told him about the firstling of the flock but how did he know about "the fat thereof"? We can only speculate...This is part of the sacrifice as described in Leviticus.

Noah brought clean and unclean animals into the ark...but God didn't specify clean and unclean animals until Leviticus...how did Noah know about clean and unclean animals...we don't know...

How did Abraham know how to tithe...who knows...I certainly don't but he still did it...

God bless...Mike.

laterunner

20th October 2005, 10:09 AM

God wants 10% of my time, talent and treasure. He gave me 100% of my time, talent and treasure.

What a small price to pay for the One who gave it all and owns it all.

><> ><> I total agree with you. I can never out give him. :blush:

AnsenyaLuz

20th October 2005, 02:05 PM

It is simple. Heavenly Father has asked us to, so yes.

trashy

21st October 2005, 10:21 AM

I stopped tithing long before I quit attending church. I studied it throughout the O.T. and discovered so many different things referred to as 'tithe' or 10% giving that I concluded that there were no consistent commandments passed on to the believer.

firestar

21st October 2005, 06:21 PM

yes I do, I believe it's still required of Christians

osx

21st October 2005, 11:46 PM

I dont mean any harm, but Im not sure I beleive the number of people saying yes here.

BeforeThereWas

22nd October 2005, 05:39 AM

There are a lot of things in the OT that people knew...as to how they knew we can only speculate...

True...to a point. I have a good idea how they knew, but will cover that later.

Abel offered the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof... ok we assume Adam told him about the firstling of the flock but how did he know about "the fat thereof"? We can only speculate...

The Hebrew word from which "the fat thereof" was translated simply means that Abel brought forth the choicest, or the best part. In other words, the lamb was not blemished. So Abel offered up the choicest of the firstborn of his flock. Ok I'm still with you. Perhaps he simply wanted to. We just don't know for sure.

This is part of the sacrifice as described in Leviticus.

I'm not sure how you can know this. What Abel did was spoken of in Genesis, and Leviticus describes a sin offerring with similar restrictions upon the quality and the firstborn perhaps, but we are not told that Abel's offering (not tithe) had anything to do with being in relation to sin. If I'm way off base from your meaning, then please do correct me, but you gave so little information for me to go on.

Noah brought clean and unclean animals into the ark...but God didn't specify clean and unclean animals until Leviticus...how did Noah know about clean and unclean animals...we don't know...

As far as what he brought onto the ark, it's quite evident that he was following the exact instructions of the Lord, as recorded in Genesis, so I don't see any great mystery in this.

How did Abraham know how to tithe...who knows...I certainly don't but he still did it...

Here is where the rub comes into play. You have drawn a parellel between this incident and that of Abel's offering and Noah's following specific instructions. I don't see the connection. In other words, how can we know that Abraham's motivation is comparable to that of Abel, in that the mystery is similar? I have read that the heathens of that time practiced many things, even handing over a tenth of their spoils to their heathen priests. I can't cite the source since it's been so long.

Abraham also took cattle, slaughtered them, cut them in half, and made a path with the carcasses in order to seal the covenant with the Lord. That too is known to have been a common method for sealing covenants among the people of that time. It had a profound psychological impact upon their thinking.

Now, I will say that the Law existed long before Abraham's time, although perhaps not in written form so far as we know. Genesis 26:5 makes this quite clear.

So, I hope you can appreciate my inquiries directed at statements made that I can't find any backing for in the text.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

22nd October 2005, 05:40 AM

It is simple. Heavenly Father has asked us to, so yes.

Asked us to do what? Give the primary portion of our giving to organized religion? Where does it say that (if that is what you are referring to).

BTW

BeforeThereWas

22nd October 2005, 05:42 AM

yes I do, I believe it's still required of Christians

Would you mind sharing with us where this exists in God's word for us today?

BTW

tryme

22nd October 2005, 09:05 AM

Yes I do tithe.

Paul talks in the new testament about churches giving to him and others so they could continue the Lord's work.

PreacherMike

23rd October 2005, 08:24 AM

Now, I will say that the Law existed long before Abraham's time, although perhaps not in written form so far as we know. Genesis 26:5 makes this quite clear.

So, I hope you can appreciate my inquiries directed at statements made that I can't find any backing for in the text.

BTW

Well if the law existed before Abraham's time maybe that is how he knew how to tithe...God bless...Mike.

BeforeThereWas

23rd October 2005, 08:48 AM

Yes I do tithe.

Paul talks in the new testament about churches giving to him and others so they could continue the Lord's work.

Yes, but where did Paul ever use the term "tithe"? Where did Paul ever say anything about a specific percentage? Can you show this to me?

BTW

BeforeThereWas

23rd October 2005, 09:09 AM

Well if the law existed before Abraham's time maybe that is how he knew how to tithe...God bless...Mike.

Uh, oh. I don't think we can even suggest that possibility, because we would then have a situation where Abraham gave out of compulsion, therefore removing the issue of his faith in what he did.

So you see, there are ramifications resulting from eacn and every assumption of possibility we may try and force upon scripture.

If there were indeed a law requiring Abraham to hand over a tenth of spoils from war to priests, then not only was Israel in direct violation of such a Law by obeying the Lord's command to Moses in Numbers 31, verse 27 and onward, but you would also have to accuse the Lord of being completely inconsistent with His own Law. The soldiers were only required to hand over 1/500th of the spoils to the priests, and the people who did not go to battle had to give 1/50th to the Levites. As you can see, both of these percentages are WAY below the 10% Abraham gave.

So, if 10% of the spoils were at all a standing requirement, then the Lord Himself is a key violator to command the entire nation to do that which is contrary to this ellusive standard you seem to assume to have existed.

My thinking is that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils simply because he wanted to give it, not because he was required or expected to give it. He knew that property was not his to begin with, and giving it all away would possibly have violated his conscience.

What about you? What would you do with property you found and retrieved from a band of thieves? Would you keep it for yourself, or would you do the noble thing and return it to its rightful owner, as Abraham had done?

BTW

PreacherMike

23rd October 2005, 09:33 AM

Now, I will say that the Law existed long before Abraham's time, although perhaps not in written form so far as we know. Genesis 26:5 makes this quite clear.

You suggested that the law existed before Abraham's time...if that were so then did the law of the tithe exist too?

Uh, oh. I don't think we can even suggest that possibility, because we would then have a situation where Abraham gave out of compulsion, therefore removing the issue of his faith in what he did.

So you see, there are ramifications resulting from each and every assumption of possibility we may try and force upon scripture.

Now maybe you want to retract your statement that "the law existed before Abraham's time"

because we would then have a situation where Abraham gave out of compulsion, therefore removing the issue of his faith in what he did.

All giving whether under the law or not should have been by faith anyway...

God bless, Mike.

BeforeThereWas

23rd October 2005, 04:59 PM

You suggested that the law existed before Abraham's time...

Oh, I more than suggested it. I stated it as a fact. Genesis 26:5 makes that abundantly clear.

if that were so then did the law of the tithe exist too?

No, it did not. Israel did not start tithing until after they entered the promised land and the place upon which the Lord's name was written had been established.

Now maybe you want to retract your statement that "the law existed before Abraham's time"

Why would I do that? I stated that God's Law existed before Abraham's day, which is true. I never said that the intricacies of the Mosaic Law existed before then. There is a difference.

All giving whether under the law or not should have been by faith anyway...

I agree. :cool:

BTW

absolutely_lost_86

23rd October 2005, 11:37 PM

i believe its important to tithe. 10% is only a small amount tht god will use to bless u and his kingdom

BeforeThereWas

24th October 2005, 08:58 PM

i believe its important to tithe. 10% is only a small amount tht god will use to bless u and his kingdom

Sorry, my friend, but organized religion is not God's Kingdom. If it were, then Jesus would never have called the pharasees a den of vipers.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

26th October 2005, 08:56 AM

I heard David Jeremiah some months ago preach on the assumption that, yes, giving is additionally for the purpose of getting something back. He had no qualms with admitting that up front. "Give to get," was the title of that sermon, and his motto. He was quite bold in his pronouncements that we indeed give in order to receive back from God.

While listening to that nonsense, I got the distinct impression that, deep down, he knew his message was nothing more than just another novel ploy to wring just a little more out of people for the benefit of organized religion.

It's knowledgable people like him who don't take God's word seriously where doing with the primary portion of believer's giving is concerned. He seems to see man-made organizations as a part of God's Kingdom. This traditional practice of trying to build institutionalism upon the foundation of God's word, His Kingdom, and upon the eternal concept of the Church, is so vastly pathetic, that it hardly merits mention. Institutionalism will perish with this world. It doesn't even come close to eternity, much less overall meeting real needs. It mostly fails to grasp even the simplest, outermost regions of true fellowship, and it's going to become better equipped and more obedient by having more money?

How puny! How small! I have no problem with a group of people banding together and playing "church" (whatever that is) together, but when they attempt to attach more rank to its collar than it is worthy of carrying, well, I will do what most others dare not do, which is to blow the whistle so that people can see clearly for themselves (if they are willing to study the word of God for what it actually says), "Hey, THAT the emperor's wearing NO cloths!"

BTW

mimipower999

26th October 2005, 11:05 AM

I tithe because i believe that is the right thing to do. I tithe to my own church and to churches who need it for spreading the Word.

MN John

26th October 2005, 11:36 AM

SOmetimes I almost tithe, sometimes I tithe, sometimes I more than tithe.

BeforeThereWas

27th October 2005, 07:08 AM

I tithe because i believe that is the right thing to do. I tithe to my own church and to churches who need it for spreading the Word.

Well, believe it or not (and you can verify this for yourself in the Bible), the tithe was never for the purpose of supporting evangelism, but rather ONLY for the meeting of needs. I can't find one verse in the word of God that authorizes us to create new priorities in our giving. The tithe went for the support of priests, Levites (none of whom were evangelists), orphans, widows and strangers. Period. That's it. I'm not saying that we should not support evangelists. What I AM saying is that our support of organized religion should always be SECONDARY in our giving to support the needy and the evangelist. People today have their priorities completely backwards from what scripture shows us.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

27th October 2005, 07:10 AM

SOmetimes I almost tithe, sometimes I tithe, sometimes I more than tithe.

You are still blessed, right, whether you tithe or not? Does your organization DO with your tithe (when you do it) in accordance with the word of God, or does that not concern you? (Just wondering.:))

BTW

crusader4peace

12th November 2005, 11:03 AM

not lately. been very bad :(

BeforeThereWas

12th November 2005, 11:21 AM

not lately. been very bad :(

Who were you talking to?

BTW

BeforeThereWas

16th November 2005, 10:40 AM

The immature only see Jesus dying on the cross for them, but the mature see themselves dying with Him.

The immature are only concerned about themselves and their own burdens; the mature are concerned about bearing the burdens of others.

The immature try to please God out of necessity; the mature out of love and gratitude.

The immature only see 'Christ and Him crucified;' the mature 'I am crucified with Christ.'

The immature ask 'what is permissible;' the mature ask 'what is commendable.'

The immature see only the half-grace of 'undeserved pardon for sins;' the mature see the other half of grace in its chastening, purifying function.

The immature believe in primarily supporting dead things, such as their petty religious institutions; the mature see to the needs of their brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus first and foremost, and the poor in their communities, that the Father may be praised and glorified by all.

The immature attach spiritual value and meaning to the meaninglessness of orgainzed religion and its handing out only milk on a perpetual basis, but with no meat; the mature strive to help others to rise to the perfection of maturity having been cricified WITH Christ.

The immature sit all their lives in the milk (pews), ever listening to the stories about that narrow way that few ever find and traverse; the mature rise up from the milk (pews), discover that narrow path and walk its length to the ultimate reward, which is Christ Jesus.

PastorMikeJ

16th November 2005, 10:50 AM

I believe a better question would be: What was the purpose of the tithe?

Well in the days of the Temple the tithe was brought into the storehouse and used on the maintence of the Temple..Now a days the tithe or "First Fruits" is used for God's Kingdom.. Tithe can also be from your treasure, from your talents or from time...

:)

PastorMikeJ

16th November 2005, 10:52 AM

furry001

22nd November 2005, 08:06 AM

people that work in ministry deserve to get paid (so says the bible)

I have not heard this before. Perhaps you would be kind enough to give Chapter and Verse?

BeforeThereWas

22nd November 2005, 08:56 AM

Well in the days of the Temple the tithe was brought into the storehouse and used on the maintence of the Temple..

I hope you don't mind my asking, but have you studied the tithe? Do you know what the tithe was? How can food be used for the maintenance of the temple?

According to God's word, the tithe was only a tenth of the increase of the produce from the fields, orchards, vineyards, and the increase of animals the herds and flocks. The word of God shows us no instance that the tithe was ever leveled against wages, and there is good reason for that.

Now a days the tithe or "First Fruits" is used for God's Kingdom..

So, do you have a chapter and verse where we are commanded to tithe today?

How is giving to organized religion synonymous with giving to God's Kingdom? The word of God is very clear as to what was to be done with the tithe, and support of real estate and expenditures associated with a building was not among that list. So, if God's word is clear on what was to be done with the tithe, then where do modern-day religious organizations get their authorization to collect a tithe from the saints for their own support. After all, 100% of the tithe went for the support of the priests, Levites, orphans, widows and strangers, not for the support of temple upkeep.

So, I am curious as to where you got your understanding about the tithe? If it is from the Bible, then I would be interested in some references.

Thanks

BTW

Arianna

22nd November 2005, 10:04 AM

:confused: What is tithing?

i've never heard this word before:scratch:

Called2Grace

22nd November 2005, 09:40 PM

I don't give a tenth of my wages to the Church, but I do give to the church, and I also give to the charities associated with my church that help those that are in need.

BeforeThereWas

23rd November 2005, 12:04 AM

:confused: What is tithing?

i've never heard this word before:scratch:

In ancient Israel, it was a tenth of the increase from the fields, orchards, vineyards, herds and flocks in support of the priests, Levites, orphans, widows and strangers. Today, it is falsely taught that the tithe is a Christian teaching that we should practice today. The two main problems with this teaching, besides the fact that it is utterly false:

1) There is not one command nor example of for the people to hand over a tenth of their wages

2) People are taught that handing over a tenth of their gross income to organized religion is biblical.

Does that help?

BTW

lollipop686

24th November 2005, 12:36 PM

Jesus says "Give 10 percent of everything you have back to the Lord your Creator." So, just do it.

BeforeThereWas

24th November 2005, 04:15 PM

Jesus says "Give 10 percent of everything you have back to the Lord your Creator." So, just do it.

Where did He say that? Can you give us a reference where He said that while speaking to the Church after He had fulfilled the Law? I realize He mentioned the tithe to the pharasees when they were all still under the Law, but what about AFTER His fulfillment of that Law?

Are you saying that organized religion is the rightful, proper entity to receive our primary giving? If so, then where is that in God's word? Reference please.

BTW

imastarforhim

24th November 2005, 11:37 PM

I tithe 10%

BeforeThereWas

25th November 2005, 08:06 AM

I tithe 10%

I don't. I figure that organized religion is not worthy of the tithe since it doesn't DO with the tithe what the Bible (which they claim to believe in) commands. If I did tithe, I would then be supporting disobedience to God's word.

BTW

lollipop686

25th November 2005, 10:34 AM

I don't. I figure that organized religion is not worthy of the tithe since it doesn't DO with the tithe what the Bible (which they claim to believe in) commands. If I did tithe, I would then be supporting disobedience to God's word.

BTW

Brother, I believe you are a little mixed up. In the bible, it says you should give back to the Lord your Creator, (i'm going to look for a reference in a minute, hold your horses) and even if i can't find a direct reference, it doesn't say "keep all your money for yourself and don't give back to God." Just because it's not in the Word of God does not mean it is wrong. And bye the way, I'm sure it is because we had a sermon about it at church.

BeforeThereWas

26th November 2005, 12:45 AM

Brother, I believe you are a little mixed up. In the bible, it says you should give back to the Lord your Creator, (i'm going to look for a reference in a minute, hold your horses) and even if i can't find a direct reference, it doesn't say "keep all your money for yourself and don't give back to God." Just because it's not in the Word of God does not mean it is wrong. And bye the way, I'm sure it is because we had a sermon about it at church.

Hmm. I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that even if this is not taught in the Bible, that it has to be right?

I agree with you that something not specifically taught in the Bible doesn't make it wrong. I would never knowingly fall off that cliff.

However, we give to the Lord in many ways. Jesus stated in Matt 25:45, "... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

Now, I hope you don't mind entertaining some questions that I have:

* Do you believe that handing over the primary portion of your giving (your tithe) to organized religion is giving unto the Lord?

* Is not organized religion bound to do with the primary portion of our giving (our tithe) what the very word of God commands; the very book they clain to believe as being authoritative?

* Have you ever studied the biblical tithe in order to know what it actually was?

* If the word of God makes no command for wage earners to give a tenth of their wages to the Levites, then what authority do today's Bible teachers stand upon to say that wage earners today must hand over a minimum of a tenth of the gross over to organized religion?

* Where does the word of God indicate that today's system of organized religion is a suitable substitute for the Levites and the Temple?

I could go on and on, but will await your response. I have a genuine interest in learning what others think about these kinds of things, and what authority they rely upon for such beliefs.

BTW

God4Gives

26th November 2005, 11:27 PM

Sadly (or not) I do not tithe.... I don't even give any money to the church.... I'm so bad o_o

BeforeThereWas

27th November 2005, 11:17 AM

Sadly (or not) I do not tithe.... I don't even give any money to the church.... I'm so bad o_o

The early Church believers gave money and things to the Church, but NOT to the Church itself (since it didn't waste resources on real estate and buildings), but rather for the meeting of needs of people. So, it's fully understandable when I read about someone who doesn't tithe to "the church".

BTW

MrsKlause

29th November 2005, 12:34 AM

The Bible says God loves a CHEERFUL giver.

auz

29th November 2005, 02:28 PM

I have a question. If tithing is not the answer to generating revenue for the church, then what better programs are available for the church to pay their bills? I don't think we should think of tithing as a personal expense, but rather as an investment. An investment in your beliefs, an investment in the future, and an investment in yourself.

SilverEagle

29th November 2005, 06:10 PM

Yes, I sure do tithe. I believe if you don't tithe, you're stealing from God, so I take it seriously. But I don't think it's all that important to give it directly to a church. Just give it to a cause or a person that God would approve of you giving to, and he'll know your heart. :)

gadiscinta

30th November 2005, 06:10 AM

Yup. Tithing is good. But how do people like us who don't earn money tithe?

Honestly, I don't feel as though I own the money because it belongs to my parents.

How do I tithe something which I don't feel belonged to?

Give me a crash course please.

gadiscinta~ the girl who loves beyond boundaries.

undecided

30th November 2005, 08:57 AM

i voted that no i don't tithe.....

but i put money in the church bucket thing that gets passed around....
so i am confused as to whether i tithe or not.

my understanding of tithing was a regular amount of money that you commit to paying, which can even come out of your bank account.

so i think what i do is an offering or giving. but i am confused if i give tithe or not.

can somebody pm me if anyone reads this and tell me whether i tithe, or just make an offering.

and is an offering sufficient?

to me i think it is?

furry001

30th November 2005, 09:17 AM

BeforeThereWas

30th November 2005, 10:29 AM

The Bible says God loves a CHEERFUL giver.

There's a vast difference between the requirement to tithe and giving, whether it be cheerful or otherwise. When the requirement to tithe was in effect, there was no requirement to be cheerful when handing it over to the Levites.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

30th November 2005, 10:45 AM

I have a question. If tithing is not the answer to generating revenue for the church, then what better programs are available for the church to pay their bills?

Well, first of all, it's generally understood that the "tithe" is the primary portion of most people's giving. I think we can all agree with that. The problem comes about when that primary portion is handed over to organized religion for its own expenses. This is wrong.

Can you show me where this is anywhere exemplified within the word of God? I mean, if that Bible is the one defining authority for how we conduct our private and corporate lives, then why is the handling of the primary portion of our giving not handled in accordance to that very book's teachings?

Not one example can be shown from the word of God where the primary portion of people's giving was used for anything but the meeting of needs.

I don't think we should think of tithing as a personal expense, but rather as an investment.

However, when that investment is wrapped up in real estate with manicured lawns, and architecturally sophisiticated buildings, or even simple buildings with trashy lawns, then all those people have completely "missed the mark."

There's no problem with supporting such things secondarily to our primay responsibility toward one another. This is so simple, and yet missed by so many.

An investment in your beliefs,

When our actions demonstrate a gross misunderstanding in our beliefs, then there's a serious problem that most people have chosen to ignore for the sake of lavishing their own giving back upon themselves through the institution. I don't care if someone gives organized religion 99% of their income. If they aren't FIRST seeing to the needs of their fellow believers, then the Lord is not at all pleased with such denial of our spiritual heritage, not to mention the direct commands and examples within scripture.

an investment in the future,

There is no future for real estate and buildings. They will all burn up when this earth is destroyed. We can minister and bring others to Christ without the need for those things. It is Christ we should be investing our time and resources in, not dead, organized religion and the trappings of its petty expenditures. Those are luxuries that people have placed far too much emphasis upon. Christ was never dependednt upon the religious system and its structures of that day for His minitry.

and an investment in yourself.

Giving is not supposed to be an investment in ourselves, but rather the lives of others, that their needs may be met so that they are then released from such cares in order to serve the Lord freely.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

30th November 2005, 10:53 AM

Yes, I sure do tithe. I believe if you don't tithe, you're stealing from God, so I take it seriously.

[BOLD for emphasis only, not anger. :)] If you hand the primary portion of your giving over to organized religion, which is almost always guaranteed to abuse it, then you're stealing from God anyway. So, what's the difference between NOT giving, and giving where it's abused? Can you show me even ONE place within scripture where the tithe was used for anything but the meeting of needs? Where in the Bible was the tithe used for the upkeep of structures?

But I don't think it's all that important to give it directly to a church. Just give it to a cause or a person that God would approve of you giving to, and he'll know your heart. :)

I just wanted to use what you had said before this last point to illustrate to others who don't understand this last statement of yours and its implications. Most think that we MUST give in support of organized religion. Such is a false belief rooted in nothing but emotional argumentation.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

30th November 2005, 10:59 AM

Yup. Tithing is good.

Yes, as long as one's primary giving is handed in the right direction. Organized religion has a long history of abusing what is given into its coffers in good faith.

But how do people like us who don't earn money tithe?

Minister Christ in whatever way He has gifted you. If your gift is listening to others, and praying with them, then you are giving FAR more than what money could ever buy.

How do I tithe something which I don't feel belonged to?

You don't. Simply love others as Christ has loved you.

BTW

Redeemed_Warrior

30th November 2005, 11:17 AM

I voted Yes

BeforeThereWas

30th November 2005, 01:54 PM

I voted Yes

??? Ok, so what does that mean?

BTW

cubanito

30th November 2005, 03:14 PM

Suggestion for a poll: of those of you who believe tithing is a Scriptural command for today, who fully complied las year?

and

For those of us who do not believe it is applicable today, what percent of your post-tax income did you give last year? A-0-1% B 1-2% and so on...

Jesus said some nasty things about religious authorities that placed large burdens on the laity, while themselves not lifting a finguer. Certainly this is not always the case, but there do seem to be many among those officially ordained by man that fit this category.

1cutemonki

30th November 2005, 05:15 PM

If you don't tithe you're robbing money that belongs to God. God uis so good that he only asks for 10% of the money he gives you!! That's awesome! Tithing is an obligation. Now if you give (aside from the tithe) an offering of money, then you'll be planting in good soil, so be sure to expect the harvest to come!

SilverEagle

30th November 2005, 05:49 PM

Could you give bible references for believing this? Where does it state that we must tithe?

Thanks.

Furry

Try this link, here's all the verses with "tithe" in them. At least that I could find. (http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?keyword=tithe&multiplemethod=all&version1=31&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder)

Particularly, notice this verse:

Malachi 3:8
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, 'Wherein have we robbed thee?' In tithes and offerings."
(http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?keyword=tithe&multiplemethod=all&version1=31&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder)

gadiscinta

1st December 2005, 01:20 PM

You don't. Simply love others as Christ has loved you.

BTW

I don't understand this. Can you explain??

Thanks. :)

gadiscinta~ the girl who loves beyond boundaries.

;)

NiteClerk

1st December 2005, 08:01 PM

We tithe on net, not gross. And with three kids in Catholic elementry school and one in Catholic High School, we get back more than we give. We also give time to the church, and so do our children. Plus our Parish is listed in our will. It takes money for the church to do Gods work in a secular world.

Pax;

BoB

BeforeThereWas

1st December 2005, 11:47 PM

If you don't tithe you're robbing money that belongs to God.

Where does the Bible say that to us today?

God uis so good that he only asks for 10% of the money he gives you!!

Reference please?

Tithing is an obligation.

Who says?

Now if you give (aside from the tithe) an offering of money, then you'll be planting in good soil, so be sure to expect the harvest to come!

Sorry, but I can't find anything in the scriptures that you've said. The tithe spoken of in the Bible was never money. You'll have to give us more to go on if you want to be taken seriously.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

1st December 2005, 11:50 PM

Malachi 3:8
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, 'Wherein have we robbed thee?' In tithes and offerings."

If you pay close attention to the context of this verse, you'll see that it not only was addressed to those who were still under the Law, but it also addressed a tithe that was defined by that same Law, nont of shich had anything to do with people's wages.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

1st December 2005, 11:54 PM

I don't understand this. Can you explain??

Thanks. :)

As I recall, you epxressed a concern for not being able to tithe. Well, you don't have to tithe. none of us has to tithe. Those who want to tithe have that freedom, but there is no such requirement for us from within scriptures. You said that you don't have an income. Ok. Even if we were under the Law that required tithing, you still would not be obligated to tithe. Not even Jesus tithed. He had no orchards, vineyards, fields, flocks or herds from which to tithe of the increase. Jesus gave to the poor, but He never gave anything to the Levites because He had nothing to give them for a tithe.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

1st December 2005, 11:56 PM

NiteClerk

2nd December 2005, 12:44 AM

BeforeThereWas

3rd December 2005, 10:38 AM

BTW - What about the needy?

I'm not sure if this is directed to me. ??? ... If the needy can't tithe, I don't expect them to. I know from experience how hard it is to come up with "extra" money. But we are able to afford it, so we do. For us it means buying a cheaper car instead of a monster SUV. Or more to the point, I could get season box tickets at the Cardinals Busch Stadium for what we tithe.

Our Parish & school run a fairly good size outreach program for the needy. At school we constantly have canned food drives and penny wars. The Parish has a nurse on staff and we have an active mens club that collects and distributes food. Plus the high school does community service works in the neighborhood.

This pretty well addresses what I have talked about many times in this thread. The biblical tithe, as defined within the Bible, went for the meeting of needs.......ALL of it (except for the portion that went for festival celebrations), not just part of it. Today, however, this is no longer observed. When we give the primary portion of our giving to organized religion, it is almost guaranteed that it will abuse it. It has a history of abuse, and has gotten away with it because most people choose NOT to educate themselves on what the Bible teaches.

Schools, outreaches, all that is fine and dandy, but when the vast majority of our primary giving supports those things from which we ourselves directly benefit, then we are indeed giving to that which is clearly outside the bounds of biblical example and command. The tithe was the primary portion of all giving in Israel, and people's tithe today (those who give it) is the primary, and in most cases ONLY, portion of most people's giving.

Is that really giving when we ourselves benefit from it? No, it is not. It is what at least some people have been honest enough to label corectly. It is an INVESTMENT in ourselves and our own pride. We sure do love all our architecturally sophisiticated monuments, and we justify it by labeling those monstrosities "the church". Aren't we progressive? Aren't we intelligent? We've fooled our own conscience by the use of word games. And top it off, it's taught from pulpits and lecturns that giving in support of a dead building and its operational expenditures is synonymous with "giving to God."

Sorry, but I personally am less than impressed with declarations of someone tithing at all unless they are indeed DOING with that tithe what is consistent with the word of God. If folks want to support their institutions secondarily, that's fine, but declaring that they're giving to God while handing it over to the abusers of typical institutionalism only magnifies their guilt of not knowing the word of God, and therefore being knowledgable of what is taught contrary to the raw power of tradition.

Many think that the support of perochial and private schools, token outreachs, and food for a few of those in need, and maybe even a missions trip to some distant location where there's more poor people, somehow makes it all right. Sorry, but the masses who believe this are merely products of a system of thought that has set itself up in the place of scriptural authority. Those are people who blindly believe what their priest, pastor, or some other teacher instructs them without ever comparing what they are being taught with what is written. Sorry, but tradition being an equal authority with scripture is a belief only for the less critical in their thinking. The Lord had no problem with someone desiring to reason with Him, and we know that He never, at any point, went against His written word. (Isa. 1:18)

BTW

ladycat

3rd December 2005, 11:55 AM

Not even Jesus tithed. He had no orchards, vineyards, fields, flocks or herds from which to tithe of the increase. Jesus gave to the poor, but He never gave anything to the Levites because He had nothing to give them for a tithe.

How do you know that?

BeforeThereWas

4th December 2005, 12:37 PM

How do you know that?

I base this upon the question made by people who knew who He was, at least, Jesus' physical identity, when they asked in Mark 6:3, "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.?

If Jesus had been a shepherd, rancher, or farmer, then He would have been known as such by those He grew up around for many years of His life before His ministry.

See? He even had birth brothers and sisters, contrary to roman dogma. I would imagine those people knew the difference between cousins and actual brothers and sisters.

BTW

ladycat

4th December 2005, 12:53 PM

I base this upon the question made by people who knew who He was, at least, Jesus' physical identity, when they asked in Mark 6:3, "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.?

If Jesus had been a shepherd, rancher, or farmer, then He would have been known as such by those He grew up around for many years of His life before His ministry.

See? He even had birth brothers and sisters, contrary to roman dogma. I would imagine those people knew the difference between cousins and actual brothers and sisters.

BTW

Since I don't have a lot of time right now to search scriptures, I took a short cut and went to google and typed Was Jesus a carpenter?" in the search box. I found this:
http://www.kencollins.com/jesus-35.htm
I figured out 100% on my own a long while back that Jesus was a Rabbi. I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who has come to that conclusion.
A couple things I want to mention that the site I posted doesn't: total strangers called Him Rabbi, presumably because He was dressed like one. And He had a fringe on His cloak. That's a Rabbi thing. And He could read. Poor carpenters generally couldn't read.
I'd go on to dispute His poverty, but I will stop here rather than take this thread completely off topic.

Now back to everyone's regularly scheduled thread. :)

BeforeThereWas

4th December 2005, 03:07 PM

I figured out 100% on my own a long while back that Jesus was a Rabbi. I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who has come to that conclusion. A couple things I want to mention that the site I posted doesn't: total strangers called Him Rabbi, presumably because He was dressed like one. And He had a fringe on His cloak. That's a Rabbi thing. And He could read. Poor carpenters generally couldn't read.

I see. So what you're saying is that a mere website is a higher authority than the very words of Christ Himself, where He stated in Matt. 8:20, "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but [which means "In direct contrast"] the Son of man hath not where to lay his head."

Rabbis had homes and families. They were all married according to Jewish history. Jesus, who was indeed called a rabbi by some because of the commanding authority from which He taught, He did not carry on as a man who had a gold fringe on garments with nowhere to lay His head for sleep. I've been called an SOB, but that doesn't mean that I was born into a family with no earthly father.

Sorry, but the evidence from scripture itself is too overwhelming.

BTW

BeforeThereWas

4th December 2005, 03:15 PM

Having read through that article, it is filled with inherent and common weaknesses. Its success in the mind of its reader relies mostly upon ignorance of manuscripts, history, and broad studies on the suvject that reveal the vast difference between the authoritative titles and the less to non-authoritative titles ascribed to the Lord. Jesus had disciples, so it's only natural for Him to be called by a word that simply means "teacher". He was their teacher because they were His disciples. Anyone could stand up and read and teach in the synagogue so long as they could read. Jesus was not of the Sanhidron, Saduccees or the Pharasees. As hard as that author tried, I got the distinct impression that he is of the roman catholic presuasion, many of whom tend to lean more toward the mystical nuances of scripture than is actually credible.

BTW

ladycat

4th December 2005, 03:24 PM

I see. So what you're saying is that a mere website is a higher authority than the very words of Christ Himself, where He stated in Matt. 8:20, "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but [which means "In direct contrast"] the Son of man hath not where to lay his head."

Rabbis had homes and families. They were all married according to Jewish history. Jesus, who was indeed called a rabbi by some because of the commanding authority from which He taught, He did not carry on as a man who had a gold fringe on garments with nowhere to lay His head for sleep. I've been called an SOB, but that doesn't mean that I was born into a family with no earthly father.

Sorry, but the evidence from scripture itself is too overwhelming.

BTW

The Bible is THE highest authority. I got my ideas from studying the Bible.

But this subject should be covered in another thread to keep this one from going off topic.

BeforeThereWas

4th December 2005, 11:43 PM

The Bible is THE highest authority. I got my ideas from studying the Bible.

But this subject should be covered in another thread to keep this one from going off topic.

Well, suffice it to say that I've heard stranger doctrines than this in my life, and this one really is a non-issue in the entire scheme of things, so letting it drop is probably a good idea. I agree. :)

BTW

BeforeThereWas

4th December 2005, 11:48 PM

HOWEVER, it isn't so far off base that it doesn't fit, in some way, with the topic of this thread. Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that Jesus had been a full blown rabbi of the Sannhedron class. They too were not required to hand over a tithe to the Levites so long as they had no herds, flocks, producing fields, orchards, or vineyards. So my point still withstands the test of Jesus' alleged rabbinic affiliation, (with which, as you know, I disagree).

BTW

seekthetruth909

5th February 2006, 08:03 PM

THE THREE MAIN ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF TITHING.

1. Tithing was a pre- Mosaic Law because Abraham tithed.
Was Abraham commanded by God to tithe? Did Abraham tithe only one time? Did Abraham tithe his personal property or just the spoils of war? Read Gen 14:20, Hebrews 7:3-5 If we follow all the examples of Abraham should we also practice polygamy, give burnt offerings and practice circumcision? Did Abraham teach his children to always tithe? If Abraham taught his children to tithe why did Jacob make a proposal to God?
He would tithe only if God would bless him first with good fortune. Read Gen 28:22

2. Jesus told the Pharisees to continue to tithe their spices.
Matt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Jesus also told the leper he cured to offer burnt offerings as Mosaic Law commanded.

Luke 5:14 Then Jesus ordered him, “Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.” Matthew 8:4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.” Exodus 10:25, 20:24

Why do no Christian churches today offer burnt offerings as sacrifices?

Why did Jesus on these two occasions recommend keeping Mosaic Law?
Was it because the leper and the Pharisees were still under Mosaic Law until the crucifixion of Christ? Galatians 4:4

Was the life of Jesus the fulfillment of The Law and his dying on the cross the abolishment of The Law? Colossians 2 16 Are we now under the new covenant of Grace? Romans 6:14 Ephesians 2:8

Galatians 4:4 “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,”

3. Jesus came to fulfill the law not change it.
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” [Written before the crucifixion of Christ]
If the law has not been abolished should we still practice all 603 Old Testament laws including tithing? What does the word “fulfill” imply in this context? Consider Ephesians 2:15 [written after the crucifixion of Christ] “By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.”
Matthew 5:17 and Ephesians 2:15 seem to contradict each other so we must search more scripture for clarification. Consider the following passages:

Galatians 3:25 “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”

2 Corinthians 3:6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”

Galatians 3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.”

Galatians 3:11 “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” [ Heb. 2:4]

Hebrews 8:7 “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.”

Galatians 5:18 “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.”

Galatians 2:21 “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 3:2 “ I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?”

Hebrews 10:8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made).

Galatians 5:3 “Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.”

Galatians 3:10 “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:” “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Romans 7:2-4 “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another -- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God."

What do the previous passages imply in regards to the Old Covenant laws?
If we follow one law are we then obligated to follow all the law?
Has the death and resurrection of Christ abolished all Old Testament commandments and regulations?

Additional notes

Even Jewish Rabbis who follow the old covenant today refuse to collect tithes. Why? Only direct descendants of Levites are permitted to collect tithes according to the law and the temple in Jerusalem with all the genealogy records was destroyed. Hebrews 7: 5 Deuteronomy 18:1, 26:12

Who are the new priests of Christ and where is his temple?

1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 2:9

1 Corinthians 6:19
19 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;”
There are more Old Testament scriptures on tithing implying that there are three tithes resembling a taxation system, [Deut. 14 26-29] and that tithes are to be eaten, [Deut.14: 22-26]. Do any modern tithing churches eat their tithes?

Note: In relation to Deut14: 22-26. Some churches claim food was tithed because Israel was an agricultural society and there was no money to tithe. Is this true?
Genesis 17:12
“For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.”

New testament instructions on giving.

2 Cor 9:7-10 “Each of you must give as you have made up your mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

2 Cor 8:13-15 “ I do not mean that there should be relief for others and pressure on you, but it is a question of a fair balance between your present abundance and their need, so that their abundance may be for your need, in order that there may be a fair balance. As it is written, "The one who had much did not have too much, and the one who had little did not have too little."

1 Corinthians 16
The Collection for God's People
1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
James 1:27 “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.”
Galatians 5: 4 “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.”

Note : Please read all scriptures quoted here in their complete context to have a better understanding of God’s word .