Traditional, Mixed, or Contemporary

[KagomeShuko]

What type of service(s) do(es) your church have? Which type is your favorite?

St. Paul is typically a traditional service. Our "big changes" are that of using the LBW or Marty Haugen's liturgy in the Hymnal Supplement 1991. It's the same liturgical format. We may or may not have flute, clarinet, or handbells with piano or organ. Sometimes you might call it "mixed" because of a few songs that might be considered more "contemporary." They still fit with the service/lessons, though. None of that "feel good" and "I love God' and "it's about me" stuff, though.

So, in that sense I like traditional (and yes, I do love hymns) and mixed services.

I didn't like the contemporary services I attended in Tulsa. If I ever experience a service that is really "contermpoary" that I like, I'll be sure to mention it, but I think I only go so far as "mixed," really.

How about the rest of you ELCAers?

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Music4Hym777]

Traditional all the way! I grew up on the hymnal that was the predessor of the LBW. I can go with a little bit of contemporary music, but not too much. If the place gets to contemporary, starts taking liturgy out, or they are not respectful enough during communion, then I am outta there.

1.My biggest things are that they have to have the liturgy with the confession/absolution
2.Communion better be taken seriously, if not, there is no point if you ask me.
3. No really loud music that can burst your ear drums.

[Lutherrunner]

My home church in Ft. Worth is traditional, with an occasional flute or trumpet solo worked in somewhere if someone in the congregation has that talent, but it still fits right into the traditional music.....we also have the handbell choir...

When I am at the GF's house in Dallas, I go to a big ole fancy ELCA church that has two traditional services and a contemporary jazz service......the organ is simply huge and stunning, and makes the traditional hymms so beautiful and emotional (although I still haven't seen any Lutherans rolling around the floor speaking in tongues)......the jazz service still follows the tradtional liturgy and we still use the hymnal, so it's not contemporary in the sense of rock music with computer screens up front and people swaying and raising their hands in the air (would Lutherans do that?).....anyway, the musicians are top notch and in fact, some are professional musicians with their own CDs, but it still does not give me the same reverant feeling that I get from a traditional service, so I haven't bothered going back.......now if they had a coffee house and had the jazz band some Saturday night playing secular jazz, I would be there in a heartbeat.....

[RedneckAnglican]

traditional...in the evening we have what we call the "open door service" that is much more contemperary...still very litergical (Confession/absolution every Sunday...communion every other sunday)...I am hoping to get a little more of a contemperary feel for the sunday evening...i've played my guitar a couple of time, but we normally use cd's or just sing a capella (named for a small village in Italy where the people sing, but have no insturments)...

[ctay]

I would like to go to a service sometime that did the liturgy from the hymnal. Its been a long time since I've been to one like that. Now its just whatever liturgy they have printed in the bulletin.

[AngelusSax]

I prefer mostly traditional with a bit of mixing (hey, mixing allows me to play the sax at church sometimes, but I keep it to more traditional hymns on the Sax... am currently learning A Mighty Fortress, aka the Lutheran Fight Song).

I don't have a problem with more contemporary songs sometimes. I'd love to find a karaoke version of the Casting Crowns song "What If His People Prayed" and sing it at church one day, for example.

[Protoevangel]

What type of service(s) do(es) your church have?
Earlier service: Traditional
Later service: Mixed (Liturgy w/contemporary music)

Which type is your favorite?
Traditional, hands down.

I used to like the mixed/contemporary, but as I delve deeper into the faith I recognize the problems with the vast majority of the modern contemporary music. Great stuff to listen to, but shallow, me-centered and Theologically capricious (to be charitable). Our church used to try to be careful about the songs it selected, but that has fallen to the wayside. As one member of the "worship" (sic) team recently said, "We pick whatever sounds good to us at the time." :eek: :sick: :help:

I think I finally have my wife bought in to switching to the traditional service regularly.

[Melethiel]

One service, mixed. We'll do either very traditional or more contemporary hymns (Renewing Worship :sick: ) depending on the season. I wish they would use the liturgy from the hymnal, because what they have now is kinda...meh. It's still a liturgy though. Organ and piano are used regularly, occasionally a trumpet. There's a nice pipe organ, fairly large. I love the place, but they really need to pull their liturgy together. :P

As for what I like personally, can someone say "high church"? :P :sigh:

[SPALATIN]

Earlier service: Traditional
Later service: Mixed (Liturgy w/contemporary music)


Traditional, hands down.

I used to like the mixed/contemporary, but as I delve deeper into the faith I recognize the problems with the vast majority of the modern contemporary music. Great stuff to listen to, but shallow, me-centered and Theologically capricious (to be charitable). Our church used to try to be careful about the songs it selected, but that has fallen to the wayside. As one member of the "worship" (sic) team recently said, "We pick whatever sounds good to us at the time." :eek: :sick: :help:

I think I finally have my wife bought in to switching to the traditional service regularly.

Dan,

I can only guess that the worship team consists largely of theologically untrained laity. Am I correct?

[KagomeShuko]

Dan,
Before I took on the education, I served as worship and music at St. Paul. There's none of that picking "what sounds good to us." We sit there and read the lessons, look at t he scriptural references found in the back of the books, go on knowledge of some songs by people there at times (the "Oh, yeah, I know a song based on that Bible passage!" thing). . .

We never stray from the liturgy. . .and I like that in a church.

Thankfully, they never strayed from the liturgy at the Extravaganza, either. Every worship was liturgical. . .just with some more contemporary (but, still not "feel good") songs.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[IowaLutheran]

If done correctly, I like mixed services (which keeps the ancient liturgical forms but mixes up the music now and then) but generally prefer traditional.

[Protoevangel]

Dan,

I can only guess that the worship team consists largely of theologically untrained laity. Am I correct?
Correct, and generally people with a strong disposition for American Neo-Evangelicalism.

[Protoevangel]

Somebody once made a comment about "A Mighty Fortress" in contemporary style, i.e. drums, etc.

That I would have less of problem with. The content is what is missing from (most) modern "praise" music. I could care less about the instruments and the beat.

Are there more than a handfull of really good, truly Theologically sound, non-me-centered, instructive (not shallow), modern songs out there?

I mean, who wouldn't enjoy a rousing rocky rendition of "Praise and Thanks and Adoration", yo?

[KagomeShuko]

Are there more than a handfull of really good, truly Theologically sound, non-me-centered, instructive (not shallow), modern songs out there?



Lost And Found songs? :P You know I couldn't resist!

Actually, you just have to look through all those "feel good" songs in books, and yeah, there are actually theologically sounds songs, believe it or not.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[setmefree]

The content is what is missing from (most) modern "praise" music. I could care less about the instruments and the beat.

In his book “Why I am Lutheran” Daniel Preus has a paragraph regarding this.

He had hired a new music director who was a devout Christian but not a Lutheran.

She wanted to play a mix of traditional and modern music. Pastor Preus only approved about a third of her music selections.

When she spoke to him about this pastor Preus pointed out that Lutherans are used to hearing certain elements in their worship music. These included Christ’s sacrifice and resurrection, our salvation through grace, the Trinity and others.

When she reviewed some of the previously submitted choices she was amazed that the lyrics fell well short of some of these key elements. From that point the two saw eye to eye.

The lesson being that content is everything.

This is my new criteria for modern Christian worship music.



keith

[Bollman]

My church has a traditional service at 8:30 and a Contemp at 10:30. But the Contemp is definately a Lutheran service with responsive readings, the confession and absolution, the creed and the Lord's prayer. 1st service is chanted with tehe organ. Second has piano or piano with me or pastor on guitar with newer choruses and one hymn.

I run a montly youth service that is post-modern renewal worship with loud ear drum splitting music (four piece band with drums and gutiars blazing) and videos and such. It is geared towards reaching teens and getting them envolved.

As for my preference, I go to 2nd service most of the time... but I can hang at just about any kind of worship service.

Bollman

[JMRE5150]

I enjoy them both, actually.

[Melethiel]

1st service is chanted with tehe organ.

:( Some people get all the luck... :sigh:

[cableguy]

Yep, love traditional. When I went to a non-denom church before I found St. Mark I was blown away with the contemorary christian music. You know, live rock type band with the hit christian music beat. Just wasn't for me. As DanHead said, to much ME.

That might be one of the reasons I fell in love with St. Mark. Very traditional music. Heck, we even chant Psalms every service (try doing that in a Babtist Church:P ) We did do a little change up a week ago with alternate music pasted in the back of our With One Voice books. I didn't like it as much as the LBW.

We do have a handbells and a trumpet every now and then. Nintey percent of the time it's just the organ and sometimes the piano.

-Daniel the Cable Guy

[Moros]

Traditional and original. :)

[ctay]

Our pastor will chant some of the liturgy in some services not every sunday though, I enjoy it though when he does. I wish pastors would do it more.

[Willy]

Dan,

I can only guess that the worship team consists largely of theologically untrained laity. Am I correct?
ugh!

[Protoevangel]

ugh!
As profound as ever, Willy! ;)

[Willy]

As profound as ever, Willy! ;)
I'm glad that my reputation is continued. "Ugh" is a response to what appears to me to be elitism.

[Protoevangel]

I'm glad that my reputation is continued. "Ugh" is a response to what appears to me to be elitism.
Is it eliteism to expect Theologically appropriate lyrical content in the songs sung during worship? That was the context in which Scott made his comment.

Hey Willy, why don't you spend just a few minutes in some of the threads that aren't so polemical? There's a few fun ones around. For instance, it might be fun to take the Eucharist test (http://www.christianforums.com/t1909469-eucharist-test.html). It might not be the most accurate test or anything, but it's still kinda fun, if you don't take it too seriously. There are plenty of threads around to talk in without being contentious and divisive. Every family has conflict, but people who actually care about each other usually do something other than argue and dispute. Please consider this as an invitation.

[Willy]

No, I think the best worship music is that which reflects theological depth. I like to sing songs that are deeper. But I have no illusion that I always know what that depth looks like. I am not the arbiter of depth. And sometimes certain music speaks just because it connects so well with human experience. I am a big fan of country music because of its ability to connect to real people in real situations. Many people find this music shallow. But in many ways, it is the people's music. Just because it is the people's music doesn't somehow make it less deep. I am a very well trained theologian. Yet that doesn't mean that the music I prefer is the music that speaks to the depths of others. I may not always like the cult favorites (In the Garden, Onward Christian Soldiers, Shout to the Lord) but others do. I don't think my education means that I know better what good music or hymnody are.

[SPALATIN]

I may not always like the cult favorites (In the Garden, Onward Christian Soldiers, Shout to the Lord) but others do. I don't think my education means that I know better what good music or hymnody are.

Willy,

Just one word about the cult favorites. Ughhh!


;)

[Protoevangel]

No, I think the best worship music is that which reflects theological depth. I like to sing songs that are deeper. But I have no illusion that I always know what that depth looks like. I am not the arbiter of depth. And sometimes certain music speaks just because it connects so well with human experience. I am a big fan of country music because of its ability to connect to real people in real situations. Many people find this music shallow. But in many ways, it is the people's music. Just because it is the people's music doesn't somehow make it less deep. I am a very well trained theologian. Yet that doesn't mean that the music I prefer is the music that speaks to the depths of others. I may not always like the cult favorites (In the Garden, Onward Christian Soldiers, Shout to the Lord) but others do. I don't think my education means that I know better what good music or hymnody are.
There is a difference between theological depth and theological appropriateness; depth is not the final factor. I am sure the Mormons have a few songs that reflect their theological position in a very deep manner. That does not mean those songs would be appropriate in a Lutheran worship setting. I am sure you are not saying that you do not know what is appropriate lyrical content to reflect Lutheran belief. "Sanctuary" is one of the simplest hymns around, but it is one I do not cringe to when sung. "I have decided to follow Jesus" on the other hand, while not a whole lot more deep, is much less appropriate for a Lutheran worship service. What about the congregation breaking out into a rousing rendition of Metallica's "Creeping Death", because someone thought it had some hidden spritual meaning that they personally connected with? Would that be appropriate in a worship setting? It is not about the "music I prefer", how contemptuous to even suggest such a thing! It is about what is appropriate for the setting. Being the "very well trained theologian" that you are, Willy, I would have thought you would understand that.

[Willy]

It is about what is appropriate for the setting, what is appropriate in light of the Biblical texts. But I no way live with the illusion that my tastes or any one else's tastes don't matter. All I know is that my tastes are not ultimate, nor are yours. Therefore, I probably can find music that is appropriate in a wide variety of styles and tastes. Actually, I can begin to like music that perhaps I thought I didn't like. I can grow and be changed by other people's tastes and experiences. "Feeling" certainly is not what good theology is all about, but "feeling" is not a bad thing. We Lutherans could benefit from a little feeling. It may counteract with our desire to be so theologically correct.

[Protoevangel]

It is about what is appropriate for the setting, what is appropriate in light of the Biblical texts.
Good statement. This is all the discussion has been about. (The subthread you responded to with the oh-so productive Ugh, anyway.)

But I no way live with the illusion that my tastes or any one else's tastes don't matter. All I know is that my tastes are not ultimate, nor are yours.
This is where you loose me, Willy. No one has suggested any such thing. You are protesting something that was never been promoted. People have mentioned their preference, and the whats and why's of what they don't like. Now here you make it sound as if it's all about taste, and who's taste trumps the others. It's starting to sound like siege mentality. No one is attacking anyone's "taste" in music style here, you can breathe easy.

Therefore, I probably can find music that is appropriate in a wide variety of styles and tastes.
Good, I'm glad to hear it. I wouldn't mind the contemporary service so much if there was some care in finding music that was appropriate lyrically, I could care less about the medium of the music. See my post above (#13 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=17104978&postcount=13))

Actually, I can begin to like music that perhaps I thought I didn't like. I can grow and be changed by other people's tastes and experiences.
Oh, me too. It has taken me five years to even be able to enjoy the Traditional songs. I was stuck in the contemporary service because of my own shallowness, choosing style over content. Now if we had good content to go along with the contemporary music, I might still choose to be in the contemporary service.


"Feeling" certainly is not what good theology is all about, but "feeling" is not a bad thing. We Lutherans could benefit from a little feeling.
This part I certianly agree with wholeheartedly.


It may counteract with our desire to be so theologically correct.
This part, though, is complete garbage. Why would one sacrifice truth for a fuzzy? I think what Jesus would say to this is something like: "You should practice the latter, without neglecting the former."

[ChiRho]

This part, though, is complete garbage. Why would one sacrifice truth for a fuzzy? I think what Jesus would say to this is something like: "You should practice the latter, without neglecting the former."

What!? Objective Truth!? If I believe that, then I might have to concede that I may be wrong about something. Never. Ever. Besides, my fuzzy is what keeps me goin'. Dig?


Good post, DH.

[alabaster jar]

I don't think I've ever been to a contemporary service. But I would like to see what it is like. Sometimes I wish the music was more gospel in nature, as long as it was still theologically sound. Whatever the liturgy, I like there to be a predictable pattern. I miss using the front part of the hymnals; we use order of service papers. In my old church, we no longer touched the red hymnals--everything was photocopied in your order of service. The hymnals, I guess now, are just for looks. [sad]

[BabyLutheran]

You mean you don't sing "I am a Friend of God.?"

I am so tired of hearing that on the occasions I do go to church. It seems it is done every time!

[BabyLutheran]

BTW, is there such thing as a charismatic Lutheran worship service?

[Melethiel]

BTW, is there such thing as a charismatic Lutheran worship service?
I certainly hope not. :eek:

[BabyLutheran]

I certainly hope not. :eek:
After second thought, it isn't very German, is it? lol

[JoeCatch]

BTW, is there such thing as a charismatic Lutheran worship service?

I certainly hope not. :eek:

After second thought, it isn't very German, is it? lol

The ELCA's heritage isn't German, and that's really not why most Lutherans would hope not to see a charismatic service in their churches. It's that we don't buy the charismatics' teaching about the so-called "second baptism" of the Holy Spirit and the need to manifest signs such as prophecy, healing and tongues in order to be certain of one's salvation.

[BabyLutheran]

Cool, thanks. I am not sure that's exactly what all charismatics believe. I attended a church where we were taught that the gifts like that were one evidence of baptism by the Holy Spirit, but by no means the only evidences, or even necessary.

[RevCowboy]

BTW, is there such thing as a charismatic Lutheran worship service?

Oh they are out there. The Lutheran Brethran would be an example. ELCA, ELCIC, LCMS, WELS and LCC would all also have a few congregations that are charismatic. They are from the norm and tend to isolate themselves from the larger church bodies and functions.

The ELCA's heritage isn't German, and that's really not why most Lutherans would hope not to see a charismatic service in their churches. It's that we don't buy the charismatics' teaching about the so-called "second baptism" of the Holy Spirit and the need to manifest signs such as prophecy, healing and tongues in order to be certain of one's salvation.

The ELCA has a mixed heritage. When Lutherans first started coming to North America, they all came from separate countries and set up Church bodies according to language and heritage. There were German, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, synods and more... The latest merger in 1985 was between the LCA which was mostly German and Swedish and the ELC which was mostly Norwegian.

I am ashamed to say that its among my kin, the Norwegians, that the charismatic movement was the most popular in the 70's.

[BabyLutheran]

I figured there had to be some charismatic Lutherans out there. Heck even the RC's have some!

[Protoevangel]

Wow, memories!

In my old ELCA congregation, I used to (kinda) joke that we were becoming Pentecostal Lutherans. There were people sining the hymns with holding their hands up, and occasionally some clapping with the music, and every once in a while, stomping & dancing in the aisles. No Joke.

I haven't heard anything "contemporary" in at least a year! :P ^_^ (J/K, I still attend my wifes ELCA church on occasion).

[BabyLutheran]

I get the weirdest mental image thinking about clapping to Lutheran hymns played on a piano and no other instruments like the church I visited Sunday

[UberLutheran]

I must be a closet conservative...

I'm open to new music in a service (I loved With One Voice and I'm an enthusiastic support of Evangelical Lutheran Worship) but I really want a liturgy on Sunday morning which includes a Call to Confession and Forgiveness of Sins; the Ordinary (Kyrie, Gloria or Hymn of Praise, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei); four Scripture readings; and which includes Communion.

I was music director in a non-Lutheran church which had no Call to Confession and Forgiveness of Sins; no Scripture readings, no Ordinary and no Communion -- and I hated it. I could hardly wait until a position opened up in a Lutheran church so I could get back to a form of worship where I felt like I was actually worshipping.

The church I attend (where I'm music director) uses piano instead of organ during its services, and that's fine with me -- I've done my own piano transcriptions of Setting 2 in the Green Book and Setting 1 in ELW; and there's plenty of piano music which is appropriate for a church service; but I find the liturgy really enhances my worship experience.

"Liturgy" does not equal "bad".

[Edial]

Oh, traditional. No contest.

I saw how congregations were turning contemporary in my Baptist background.
People usually did not complain, but I felt very uncomfortable.

Besides, how can you tell someone that you do not like something when he is praising God? :)

As a Lutheran I really started respecting liturgy.
There is so much history and depth in it ...

I'm traditional. :)

Thanks, :)
Ed

[BabyLutheran]

I agree with Ed. I spent the first 10 years of my Christian walk at nondenominational and charismatic churches with loud 45 minute praise and worship segments, followed by a 45 minute lecture from the pulpit.

I much prefer the liturgy and the traditional music. I was drawn at first to EO, then gradually to Lutheranism.

I like loud praise music in my car, but not at church.

[Izdaari]

Well... if I do run across a charismatic Lutheran congregation, it would definitely interest me and I'd be sure to check it out.

At my own AG church, I prefer the most contemporary of our three services, the "youth oriented" service with the rock band and the "come as you are" casual dress code. That's where I feel most comfortable, and the traditional hymns of my denomination don't speak to me as much as the Christian rock does. And btw, most of our praise & worship songs do have some theological depth. Also, our worship leader is ordained -- he's young but he's one of the pastors. I'm not sure what his theological background is, but he'd have to have some to be ordained.

But OTOH, I very much enjoy a traditional liturgical service on occasion, so once a month or so I wander down to Seattle's St. Mark's Cathedral (it's Episcopal and the seat of the diocese) for the full "bells and smells" experience. St. Marks is liberal, but the liturgy is traditional. If AG even had a liturgical service, I might prefer that to the contemporary one, but I guess that's a moot question.

[Edial]

Well... if I do run across a charismatic Lutheran congregation, it would definitely interest me and I'd be sure to check it out.

At my own AG church, I prefer the most contemporary of our three services, the "youth oriented" service with the rock band and the "come as you are" casual dress code. That's where I feel most comfortable, and the traditional hymns of my denomination don't speak to me as much as the Christian rock does. And btw, most of our praise & worship songs do have some theological depth. Also, our worship leader is ordained -- he's young but he's one of the pastors. I'm not sure what his theological background is, but he'd have to have some to be ordained.

But OTOH, I very much enjoy a traditional liturgical service on occasion, so once a month or so I wander down to Seattle's St. Mark's Cathedral (it's Episcopal and the seat of the diocese) for the full "bells and smells" experience. St. Marks is liberal, but the liturgy is traditional. If AG even had a traditional liturgical service, I might prefer that to the contemporary one, but I guess that's a moot question.
I like robes. :)
But that's me. :)

You can always find a contemporary Lutheran service. :)

Thanks, :)
Ed

[Izdaari]

You can always find a contemporary Lutheran service. :)

Thanks, :)
Ed
Aye, but where's the fun in that? ;)

I get all the contemporary services I need at my AG church. The point of my visiting a Lutheran or Episcopal church, as I sometimes like to do, is to get my liturgy fix! :liturgy:

:D

[Edial]

Aye, but where's the fun in that? ;)

I get all the contemporary services I need at my AG church. The point of my visiting a Lutheran or Episcopal church, as I sometimes like to do, is to get my liturgy fix! :liturgy:

:D
Oh.
I misunderstood.

You can get great fun at the monotonous liturgy services. :)
I love it. (tells you what is fun for me).

Shoes (real shoes, not the referee sneakers that look like shoes), long sleeve shirt, tailored slacks (not khakis, nor jeans), shaved/showered/and aftershaved and a liberal bent (tie is optional).

... I am exaggerating, of course. :)

But to me, liturgy is important.

Thanks,
Ed

[Izdaari]

Oh.
I misunderstood.

You can get great fun at the monotonous liturgy services. :)
I love it. (tells you what is fun for me).

Shoes (real shoes, not the referee sneakers that look like shoes), long sleeve shirt, tailored slacks (not khakis, nor jeans), shaved/showered/and aftershaved and a liberal bent (tie is optional).

... I am exaggerating, of course. :)

But to me, liturgy is important.

Thanks,
Ed
^_^

The getting dressed up part I'm kinda resistant to. You see, my normal look is somewhere between biker chick, goth and punk, and early Joan Jett is about as cleaned up as I get.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Izdaari/442407681_8baafe4921_o.jpg

No, that's not me, that's Joan, but that's about my style... when I'm trying to look respectable. Luckily for me, that look fits in well enough at my AG church and at St. Mark's.

There are rare occasions when I get all dressed up and girly, but that usually means a wedding, a funeral or a very special date.

:cool:

[BabyLutheran]

I am trying to imagine a 53 year old dressed like that!

Sounds pretty cool actually.

[Izdaari]

I am trying to imagine a 53 year old dressed like that!

Sounds pretty cool actually.
53 is not so very old! ^_^

They say 50 is the new 30 for delusional women everywhere. ;)

I'm not sure if I'm delusional (how would I know?), but I am athletic and still as trim as Joan in that photo.

[BabyLutheran]

53 is not so very old! ^_^

They say 50 is the new 30 for delusional women everywhere. ;)

I'm not sure if I'm delusional (how would I know?), but I am athletic and still as trim as Joan in that photo.
I used to think 50 was old! lol

Now it sounds pretty young.

[Edial]

^_^

The getting dressed up part I'm kinda resistant to. You see, my normal look is somewhere between biker chick, goth and punk, and early Joan Jett is about as cleaned up as I get.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Izdaari/442407681_8baafe4921_o.jpg

No, that's not me, that's Joan, but that's about my style... when I'm trying to look respectable. Luckily for me, that look fits in well enough at my AG church and at St. Mark's.

There are rare occasions when I get all dressed up and girly, but that usually means a wedding, a funeral or a very special date.

:cool:
Perfect !

Consider a liturgy service as when you go to funeral. :liturgy:

Yet try keeping the snoring to minimum. :sleep:
It is reserved for the acolytes.

[Edial]

53 is not so very old! ^_^

They say 50 is the new 30 for delusional women everywhere. ;)

I'm not sure if I'm delusional (how would I know?), but I am athletic and still as trim as Joan in that photo.
Of course it is not delusional.

Women just look at age in dog years ... :crosseo:

[BabyLutheran]

Of course it is not delusional.

Women just look at age in dog years ... :crosseo:
Edial

I hope you are ready for some real "fun" responses to that post. hahahaha

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What type of service(s) do(es) your church have? Which type is your favorite?

St. Paul is typically a traditional service. Our "big changes" are that of using the LBW or Marty Haugen's liturgy in the Hymnal Supplement 1991. It's the same liturgical format. We may or may not have flute, clarinet, or handbells with piano or organ. Sometimes you might call it "mixed" because of a few songs that might be considered more "contemporary." They still fit with the service/lessons, though. None of that "feel good" and "I love God' and "it's about me" stuff, though.

So, in that sense I like traditional (and yes, I do love hymns) and mixed services.

I didn't like the contemporary services I attended in Tulsa. If I ever experience a service that is really "contermpoary" that I like, I'll be sure to mention it, but I think I only go so far as "mixed," really.

How about the rest of you ELCAers?

Stein Auf!
Bridget



My congregation has two services:

8:00 Traditional, with an organ, centuries old organist, and the liturgy rather formally fulfilled right out of the new LCMS hymnal.

10:30 Contemporary. EXACTLY the same as the 8:00 service except that the traditional hymns from the hymnal on an electronic organ twice my age played by a nice lady older than my grandmother is replaced by contemporary songs played by a praise band.

Same liturgy, same order of service, same readings, same sermon, same readings, same vestments. Different songs.




Pax


- Josiah




,

[Izdaari]

Perfect !

Consider a liturgy service as when you go to funeral. :liturgy:

Yet try keeping the snoring to minimum. :sleep:
It is reserved for the acolytes.
^_^

I truly don't find them soporific. At least not the St. Mark's Episcopal version. With all the organ music, the incense, the splendor and the pageantry, I'm too busy marveling at it all to even think of snoozing. But then, I haven't been doing it all my life. :priest::crosseo::liturgy::clap:

[Izdaari]

Of course it is not delusional.

Women just look at age in dog years ... :crosseo:
^_^^_^^_^

[Edial]

^_^

I truly don't find them soporific. At least not the St. Mark's Episcopal version. With all the organ music, the incense, the splendor and the pageantry, I'm too busy marveling at it all to even think of snoozing. But then, I haven't been doing it all my life. :priest::crosseo::liturgy::clap:
Touche.

[gtmyers]

Our pastor will chant some of the liturgy in some services not every sunday though, I enjoy it though when he does. I wish pastors would do it more.
Yes I agree. We are looking for a Lutheran Church right now and I enjoy and get more out of it when they chant. If the pastor can't do it, they can always get someone else to can't they? Cantor?
I visited a small country church that did this well last Sunday. Enjoyed it very much!

[gtmyers]

I must be a closet conservative...

I'm open to new music in a service (I loved With One Voice and I'm an enthusiastic support of Evangelical Lutheran Worship) but I really want a liturgy on Sunday morning which includes a Call to Confession and Forgiveness of Sins; the Ordinary (Kyrie, Gloria or Hymn of Praise, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei); four Scripture readings; and which includes Communion.

I was music director in a non-Lutheran church which had no Call to Confession and Forgiveness of Sins; no Scripture readings, no Ordinary and no Communion -- and I hated it. I could hardly wait until a position opened up in a Lutheran church so I could get back to a form of worship where I felt like I was actually worshipping.

The church I attend (where I'm music director) uses piano instead of organ during its services, and that's fine with me -- I've done my own piano transcriptions of Setting 2 in the Green Book and Setting 1 in ELW; and there's plenty of piano music which is appropriate for a church service; but I find the liturgy really enhances my worship experience.

"Liturgy" does not equal "bad".



You and I think alike! Just exiting the Presbyterian Church because I miss the Lutheran liturgical worship!

[gtmyers]

After reading all the posts I kinda see that there is a need for the liturgy even in those going to churches that do not have it. I feel this need in my own life. The Presbyterian Church I attend has no liturgy. Its just hymns, prayer, hymn, prayer, hymn, offering, a 30 minute sermon and one more hymn and finally a closing prayer. However, we do say the Lords prayer and the Apostles Creed. We have communion once a month. Now, on occasion we have visited some of our family at their Lutheran Church in another town. When we have, I get this feeling of really worshiping. There is just something about the liturgy, the readings, the Gospel, and communion that leads me to believe I have worshipped God.
So for me I like the traditional or divine worship service. This is why we are looking for us a Lutheran Church now.
But its hard because we have formed friends at the Pres. Church.

[Edial]

...This is why we are looking for us a Lutheran Church now.
But its hard because we have formed friends at the Pres. Church.
Just curious ...
What do your friends say about you wanting to leave?

[Izdaari]

After reading all the posts I kinda see that there is a need for the liturgy even in those going to churches that do not have it. I feel this need in my own life. The Presbyterian Church I attend has no liturgy. Its just hymns, prayer, hymn, prayer, hymn, offering, a 30 minute sermon and one more hymn and finally a closing prayer. However, we do say the Lords prayer and the Apostles Creed. We have communion once a month. Now, on occasion we have visited some of our family at their Lutheran Church in another town. When we have, I get this feeling of really worshiping. There is just something about the liturgy, the readings, the Gospel, and communion that leads me to believe I have worshipped God.
So for me I like the traditional or divine worship service. This is why we are looking for us a Lutheran Church now.
But its hard because we have formed friends at the Pres. Church.
I definitely understand! My situation is a little different: my present church does give me a good worship experience, good fellowship and exceptionally strong teaching (our pastor has a real gift for it), so I won't be leaving. But still, I like to get my "liturgy fix" at least once a month, sometimes at a local ELCA church, other times at the Episcopal cathedral.

Good luck, or even better, divine guidance on finding the right church for you! :crossrc:

[RevCowboy]

Yes I agree. We are looking for a Lutheran Church right now and I enjoy and get more out of it when they chant. If the pastor can't do it, they can always get someone else to can't they? Cantor?
I visited a small country church that did this well last Sunday. Enjoyed it very much!

Howdy GT!

The Cantor can chant some of the parts of the litrugy, like the Kyrie and Psalm. However, the Great Thanksgiving, proper preface and Eucharistic prayer should be done only by a pastors, as well as the Prayer of the Day (which is rarely chanted, and often prayed by the whole congregation when it should be only the presider). If the Gospel is chanted, a Deacon should do it. Since Lutherans don't have deacons in that sense, I think anyone could.

OK, I will end the liturgy nerdyness there.

[Edial]

...

OK, I will end the liturgy nerdyness there.
:D :D :) .

I think you belong in Tofferer's nerd thread.

[Edial]

I definitely understand! My situation is a little different: my present church does give me a good worship experience, good fellowship and exceptionally strong teaching (our pastor has a real gift for it), so I won't be leaving. But still, I like to get my "liturgy fix" at least once a month, sometimes at a local ELCA church, other times at the Episcopal cathedral.

Good luck, or even better, divine guidance on finding the right church for you! :crossrc:
You are an interesting person, Izdaari. :)

[Edial]

Edial

I hope you are ready for some real "fun" responses to that post. hahahaha
I've said worse ... they let me slide.:crosseo: :holy:

I even said the one that there will be no women in heaven because of this verse ...

REV 8:1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Since silence and women don't really mix ... you get the punchline.

The ladies gave me some responses, ... :help: but considered me harmless. :liturgy:

:)

[Bartolomeo]

I believe that most of the reason contemporary services take hold is that the traditional services they supplant have deteriorated due to a lack of proper instruments, musicians, or choral leadership. It is rare for any but the largest churches to be willing to invest in traditional music by commissioning a new or improved pipe organ or paying for a capable organist and choir director. Or there is stagnation of the material due to an unwillingness to try new hymns or liturgical settings.

So they get Kurt and Dean from teh congregation, who can sort of sing and play guitar.

There are exceptions, of course, but it is rare to see a contemporary service that is done well. It's a huge amount of work to put on an effective and well-rehearsed contemporary service every Sunday. Quality music is never easy.