sex question...*blush*

[shyfaeryxx]

Hi,
I was wondering, is masturbation really wrong if what you're fantasizing about isn't a real person & you'd never find it pleasurable in real life?? And you'd NEVER do what you're fantasizing about in real life? (Ecxept maybe to your future husband/wife). I mean, c'mon, what about those of us who have never dated in like 10 years, or worse, never? Don't we deserve any "sexual happiness" for ourselves, AND to help us from doing something stupid sexually (like hiring a prostitute or something)? :confused: Thanks~ :)

[StAnselm]

It is significant, I think, that the Bible never says that masturbation is a sin. But Jesus says very clearly that lust is a sin, and fantasising about imaginary people is still lust.

you'd never find it pleasurable in real life??
Well, that might be even worse, if by that you mean something dark and unhealthy.

But sexual desire is not in itself wrong. It is a gift from God. So there is nothing wrong with looking forward to having sex with one's future spouse.

[shyfaeryxx]

yes, but we ALL lust after people! :) It's impossible not to. It's like trying not to think about...how good that sundae looks, or how pretty someone's dress is or something LOL. I just don't see why it's WRONG!! It's not fair!! We can't stimulate ourselves sexually, or even THINK about kissing somone! *gasp* I just don't get it. Well if it is a sin, it can't be THAT big a sin, right, if he doesn't even mention masturbation in the Bible? *confused* Thanks for your reply though~ :blush: xx

[holo]

I suggest you calm down and follow your own heart and common sense. It's a sad day when we leave it up to the members of CF to determine what it right or wrong for the individual.

[Justin761985]

Masturbation usually involves fantasy, visualization, and often pornography, and the bible is very clear in what God expects of us in terms of fantasy and lust. In fact, an older definition of masturbation is "self-abuse." Although more modern dictionaries may no longer carry this definition, they are still linked together under self-abuse:

Self-abuse noun¹ 1. Abuse of oneself or one's abilities.
2. Masturbation.Furthermore, masturbation will not truly relieve the sexual pressure that one may feel. It may for a short moment, but in the long run it only creates a deeper desire and capacity for sex, which will lead to more masturbation. If you let yourself become enslaved to a sexual high, you will find that you need to go to increasingly extreme acts to maintain the same degree of excitement.

Hope this helps

God Bless,
Justin.

[holo]

...must.... analyze.... urges.... must... blow...dust... off... dictionary... must..define... sin...

:P

[Radagast]

It's a sad day when we leave it up to the members of CF to determine what it right or wrong for the individual.
We should leave it up to the Bible... and other Christians can help with that -- which is why we have this subforum...

[StAnselm]

Well if it is a sin, it can't be THAT big a sin

That attitude rather unhelpful: sin - any sort of sin - deserves punishment, and must be confessed. Make sure you ask God for forgiveness whenever you feel that you have done the wrong thing. Most importantly, remember that Jesus died to save us from all our sins - the little ones as well as the big ones.

[snoochface]

yes, but we ALL lust after people! :) It's impossible not to. It's like trying not to think about...how good that sundae looks, or how pretty someone's dress is or something LOL. I just don't see why it's WRONG!! It's not fair!! We can't stimulate ourselves sexually, or even THINK about kissing somone! *gasp* I just don't get it. Well if it is a sin, it can't be THAT big a sin, right, if he doesn't even mention masturbation in the Bible? *confused* Thanks for your reply though~ :blush: xx

Yes, we ALL lust after people. But, pardon my bluntness, so what? We ALL sin, no matter what kind of sin it is. Does that mean it becomes somehow okay, because we ALL do it? No - God has made it clear that we are to turn away from sin. The fact that we ALL do it bears little on the rightness or wrongness of it.

And there is no "big" sin or "little" sin. All sin is an abomination in God's eyes. That's why I have a personal problem with the people who get all up in arms over things like homosexuality, but don't seem to have a problem with sins of pride or laziness or over-eating, etc. Sin is sin, there is no big sin or little sin, it's all sin, and it's all just as bad as every other sin in God's eyes - and none of us are exempt from it.

That said... I don't know if masturbation is a sin in all circumstances. We are not supposed to lust, but it is okay to lust after our spouses. So if a person masturbates to thoughts of their own spouse, I'm not sure that is a sin. If the person masturbates to pornography or thoughts of another person (whether real or imagined) then I believe that falls under:

Matthew 5:27-29

For unmarried people, I believe the same might hold true. I don't know this to be the case because the Bible does not specifically mention adultery. But the Bible also does not specifically mention abortion, either, and I don't know of any Christians who believe it to be okay because there is sufficient evidence in the Bible to support abortion being a sin. That may very well be the case with masturbation too.

My biggest concern is that you seem to be trying to justify it in your mind as being okay. You asked here in the first place, which tells me you had doubts about whether it was okay to do. Then after seeing some responses, you tried to justify it by talking about how we ALL lust, and it can't be "that big" a sin, etc. It seems to me that the Holy Spirit is convicting you that it is a sin, at least for you, and you are trying to resist that feeling by justifying why it is okay. I think you probably need to pray about this issue and ask for guidance and clarity from God. He will give it to you, and then - regardless of what he says - it's up to you to listen.

Good luck. This isn't an easy topic to deal with. :hug:

[Jody7818]

First thing you should realize is that masturbation is a flesh act. And the flesh is an abomination to God. You have to simply use plain old Christian sense when it comes to things like this. I truly don't see where masturbation can be a good thing for anybody. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. The negative things we do to them can hinder the Spirit. When you have questions like these, ask yourself what men of the Bible would think about this.

Being a Christian is about living righteously. I can't find any righteousness in masturbation. Its simply a sex act.

[TheMainException]

Ah...yes....a question I've had so very often.....just cause everyone does it doesn't make it right.....it's still sinful....and God still forgives us....I think that masterbation is fine, but basically making yourself "wet/hot/horny" before you actually are by fantasizing is wrong.....if it happens, it happens, get it out quick....if you are doing it everyday and making yourself that way...no....get it? I hope that was clear....it's not an easy subject to speak on ....just cause it's kinda not one we usually talk about...which is why it is such a thing that gets to us.

[holo]

First thing you should realize is that masturbation is a flesh act. And the flesh is an abomination to God. You have to simply use plain old Christian sense when it comes to things like this. I truly don't see where masturbation can be a good thing for anybody. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. The negative things we do to them can hinder the Spirit. When you have questions like these, ask yourself what men of the Bible would think about this.

Being a Christian is about living righteously. I can't find any righteousness in masturbation. Its simply a sex act.
The flesh is not an abomination to God. He created it, with all it's abilities and urges. The flesh itself is the shell we live in. Your body isn't somehow sinful. To reason that masturbation is wrong because it's a desire that sits in the flesh, means that scratching your back is wrong too.

Also, "plain old Christian sense" is exactly what has made thousands of people suffer under such rules as "dancing / playing cards is sin".

The problem with masturbation isn't that it's either gloryfying or not gloryfing God, but that people are so uptight and afraid of God, assuming he's some kind of robot judge who lays down rules we can't know anything about without a ph.d. in theology, and that everybody thinks it's everybody else's business.

I wish we'd be as busy with our lack of love, our gossiping, our environmental pollution for that matter, as we are with how somebody touches their body when they're alone.

[Jody7818]

The flesh is not an abomination to God. He created it, with all it's abilities and urges. The flesh itself is the shell we live in. Your body isn't somehow sinful. To reason that masturbation is wrong because it's a desire that sits in the flesh, means that scratching your back is wrong too.

I think you may have missed my point. All that I'm saying is that masterbation is a flesh act. It's not of the Spirit. God does not like it when people live in the flesh.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Also, "plain old Christian sense" is exactly what has made thousands of people suffer under such rules as "dancing / playing cards is sin".

To me..."plain old Christian sense" is living according to the rules of the Bible.
I wish we'd be as busy with our lack of love, our gossiping, our environmental pollution for that matter, as we are with how somebody touches their body when they're alone.

I totally agree...start a new thread.

A note to the orginal poster (and to others who are interested), read Galatians Chapter 5. It goes over the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. Pray to God and ask Him to reveal to you where masterbation would fit in: fruit of the flesh or fruit of the Spirit.

[twistedsketch]

Hi,
I was wondering, is masturbation really wrong if what you're fantasizing about isn't a real person & you'd never find it pleasurable in real life?? And you'd NEVER do what you're fantasizing about in real life? (Ecxept maybe to your future husband/wife).
That actually scares me.
Luke 6:45
If you entertain fantasies that you know are wrong, they will corrupt you. That is where all evil behavior begins, in your fantasy life. I'm not saying it happens quickly. It is a very slow poison, but I assure you that filthy fantasies will corrupt you. I (ashamedly) know this first hand.


We can't stimulate ourselves sexually, or even THINK about kissing somone!
Thinking about kissing is OK as long as the person is not married or you are not married to anyone else. But it can be a slippery slope to more explicit fantasies later in the day or later in the week.


Matthew 5:27-29

For unmarried people, I believe the same might hold true. I don't know this to be the case because the Bible does not specifically mention adultery. But the Bible also does not specifically mention abortion, either, and I don't know of any Christians who believe it to be okay because there is sufficient evidence in the Bible to support abortion being a sin. That may very well be the case with masturbation too.
Following our Lord's logic, the same does hold true for single people. The only difference is instead of adultery it's fornication.

[twistedsketch]

I think you may have missed my point. All that I'm saying is that masterbation is a flesh act. It's not of the Spirit. God does not like it when people live in the flesh.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

A note to the orginal poster (and to others who are interested), read Galatians Chapter 5. It goes over the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. Pray to God and ask Him to reveal to you where masterbation would fit in: fruit of the flesh or fruit of the Spirit.
But the OP must realize that the "flesh" Paul uses in these passages is a metaphor for our fallen nature. Not our actual bodies. We're not Gnostics here :) .

[TheMainException]

Here is what the world needs to know: NO ONE KNOWS WHETHER IT IS TRULY RIGHT OR WRONG....so therefore, decide for yourself.....it makes me terribly angry that this always becomes such a debate when all they ask for is a bit of help.....they don't seek debate.....they seek help...so...OP...to help you....you must decide for yourself...if it makes you feel guilty.....maybe you shouldn't do it....get into the word and pray and listen to God...over time, you will be able to hear his voice.......

[Jody7818]

But the OP must realize that the "flesh" Paul uses in these passages is a metaphor for our fallen nature. Not our actual bodies. We're not Gnostics here :) .

You're exactly right, and you make a good point. To the OP, sorry if I led you into thinking that the flesh is in relation to the actual body itself. What I was referring to is the "fruits of the flesh". Read Galatians Chapter 5, and you should fully understand what is meant by the "fruits of the flesh". It gives a list of several different sins that are fruits of the flesh. On the upside, it also gives a list of different deeds that are of the Spirit. These are the fruits of the Spirit. I encourage you to read this chapter.

[holo]

A note to the orginal poster (and to others who are interested), read Galatians Chapter 5. It goes over the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. Pray to God and ask Him to reveal to you where masterbation would fit in: fruit of the flesh or fruit of the Spirit.No offense, but why ask God when you've already given the answer...?

Not everything is a "fruit" of either this or that. And if masturbation is a fruit of the flesh, so is scratching your back.

Living with Jesus isn't about having rules about every single little thing, much less make up rules that apply to everybody in ever situation and age. Masturbation in itself has nothing to do with making God happy or angry. People will see for themselves whether or not they can do it with a clear conscience. But I suspect our conscience is too often tainted by different kinds of legalism and our view of God more as a judge than a father.

[Bottom Buzzer]

Ain't nobodys business how fast people are washing their lower parts.

[Scholar in training]

Here is what the world needs to know: NO ONE KNOWS WHETHER IT IS TRULY RIGHT OR WRONG....so therefore, decide for yourself.....it makes me terribly angry that this always becomes such a debate when all they ask for is a bit of help.....they don't seek debate.....they seek help...so...OP...to help you....you must decide for yourself...if it makes you feel guilty.....maybe you shouldn't do it....get into the word and pray and listen to God...over time, you will be able to hear his voice.......
What do you mean no one knows whether it is right or wrong? That is your opinion, not a fact, and you haven't qualified it. I contend that masturbation is wrong if it will lead to further sexual desire, which it usually does. It is, therefore, a wise, cautious decision not to start masturbating in the first place. Masturbating is like smoking a cigarette or swearing; it is very difficult to control your urge once you give in to it. Be rest assured, I know personally that sensuality is a particularly hard taskmaster. It's not easy to quit something when you get a rush from it, and then soon you become desensitized to that rush, and need to do more and more... It is a terrible way to go about life. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

[Radagast]

MOD HAT ON

Just a reminder:

This is a forum that is specifically for new Christians to ask other Christians, both staff and members, questions about their new found faith and how to grow and mature in that faith.

This is NOT a forum for debate or controversy. Any questions or posts that are designed to confront or argue will be deleted or moved to a more appropriate forum.

MOD HAT OFF

[TheMainException]

All I'm saying, is that it isn't for any of you to decide what another person should do with their bodies....there are some simple ones....drugs are illegal..sinful, lust is obviously sinful....stealing is sinful, swearing...I might bet that it sinful....but masterbation doesn't always lead people into full blown sexual relations with others. Maybe for you it does...but you have to know yourself. It hasn't for me. When I feel the need, I do so and get it done with and move on with my life....legality...is stupid.....fruits of the flesh....yeah, I see what you mean....but come on....there are a bunch...and you can interpret them different ways....for those of you just debating....there's really no point in being here in this thread....leave the OP alone with your debating. It's no good here. Each to his own.

[twistedsketch]

It's not the body where the problem is. It's the soul and the lust going on inside. That is a sin. It is the God-given sex drive having been hijacked by sin.

"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." - Colossians 3:5

"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you." - 1 Thessalonians 4:3-6

[all things through Christ]

yes, but we ALL lust after people! :) It's impossible not to. It's like trying not to think about...how good that sundae looks, or how pretty someone's dress is or something LOL. I just don't see why it's WRONG!! It's not fair!! We can't stimulate ourselves sexually, or even THINK about kissing somone! *gasp* I just don't get it. Well if it is a sin, it can't be THAT big a sin, right, if he doesn't even mention masturbation in the Bible? *confused* Thanks for your reply though~ :blush: xx

that's not true it is impossible to not lust. You can read what I said about masturbation here http://www.christianforums.com/t1158769-is-masterbation-a-sin.html&page=27#post17130975

[zitreksun]

There is a difference between lusting and physical attraction. For instance, I can be physically attracted to a woman at a store. There is nothing wrong with that. Lusting begins if I start to dwell on the way she looks, if I allow my eyes to move up and down her body, and if I begin to fantasize about kissing her or other physical acts. However, thankfully "I have the mind of Christ", I am able to "take every thought captive" and I know that I "will not be tempted beyond what I am able to bear, and that God will provide an escape for me." These are just paraphrases, and I cannot remember right now what scriptures they are. Bottom line, being physically attracted to someone is natural. Lusting is going to far. Lusting can go too far even between married people.

[TheMainException]

well said zitreksun

[all things through Christ]

I don't really agree with that. You can judge the appearance of someone (which is never good) and like the way they look but if you are physically attracted to someone that's desire, yes? And desiring someone physically is lusting after them right? That makes me consider some things..

Jesus would never judge the way someone looks. Or be attracted to someone physically, He is beyond that. We should be more like Christ.

[TheMainException]

can we stop this? Can we come back to the Original question please? i think you've all gone too far from it....

[twistedsketch]

I don't really agree with that. You can judge the appearance of someone (which is never good) and like the way they look but if you are physically attracted to someone that's desire, yes? And desiring someone physically is lusting after them right? That makes me consider some things..
No, you're fast-forwarding through the temptation process. It goes like this:

1. You see what you like.
2. You're tempted to dwell on it.
3. You dwell on it and are tempted to dive in deeper. This is where the sin begins.
4. Finally you've dwelled on it so much and dove in so deep that you release the pressure. This is the "external" sin of in this case, masturbation.


Jesus would never judge the way someone looks. Or be attracted to someone physically, He is beyond that. We should be more like Christ.
Jesus was also human. Judging someone's character by the way they look and being attracted physically are two different animals. I'm sure he was attracted to some women when He was down here - after all, He was tempted just as we are (Hebrews 4:15). Yet, He was without sin - His compassion for them and respect for them, along with His own holiness kept His steps clean.

[TheMainException]

twistedsketch...you are really quite good with these things...

[all things through Christ]

can we stop this? Can we come back to the Original question please? i think you've all gone too far from it....

oops

[all things through Christ]

can we stop this? Can we come back to the Original question please? i think you've all gone too far from it....

I was thinking about the same thing when I wrote my earlier post but I figured the question is already answered. Unless you are looking for opinions, which are useless at best.

[all things through Christ]

No, you're fast-forwarding through the temptation process. It goes like this:

1. You see what you like.
2. You're tempted to dwell on it.
3. You dwell on it and are tempted to dive in deeper. This is where the sin begins.
4. Finally you've dwelled on it so much and dove in so deep that you release the pressure. This is the "external" sin of in this case, masturbation.



Jesus was also human. Judging someone's character by the way they look and being attracted physically are two different animals. I'm sure he was attracted to some women when He was down here - after all, He was tempted just as we are (Hebrews 4:15). Yet, He was without sin - His compassion for them and respect for them, along with His own holiness kept His steps clean.

So you are saying there are definite stages in the process. This is based on what? "If you have more than 100 thoughtseconds it becomes dwelling, 200 thoughtseconds it becomes dwelling on it so much that it becomes sin"

There is no way to measure it. I say that as soon as you judge someone's appearance it is sin. And the sin is not external. It is internal (stimulating pleasure receptors in your mind) and ultimately falling into sin. Self sexaul stimulation is sin because it involves lusting, yes?

[all things through Christ]

Masturbation is sin because of it involves lust not vice versa. Jesus said do not lust in your heart (thoughts). We should only desire God.

[TheMainException]

yeah..so I suggest you all go somewhere else and debate this whole "lust" deal.

[visionary]

would you be able to gain pleasure without spilling seed? Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. God does not like it.

[twistedsketch]

So you are saying there are definite stages in the process. This is based on what? "If you have more than 100 thoughtseconds it becomes dwelling, 200 thoughtseconds it becomes dwelling on it so much that it becomes sin"

There is no way to measure it. I say that as soon as you judge someone's appearance it is sin. And the sin is not external. It is internal (stimulating pleasure receptors in your mind) and ultimately falling into sin. Self sexaul stimulation is sin because it involves lusting, yes?
But when you see something you like, you have the choice of whether to covet that thing or not. Lusting is basically a form of sexual coveting. If I'm not allowed to like the way a woman looks, then quite naturally I am not allowed to like TVs, DVDs, or computers. I'm not allowed to turn my head when a classic car drives by.

We sin in our minds because we've said "yes" to the temptation that is set before us. For example, you see a REALLY nice TV in a store window. There are several temptations you can face - steal it, save up to get it at all costs, or just get jealous of those who can afford to buy it. A fruit of the Spirit is self-control (Gal 5:23). We exercise it when we dismiss the idea that we should go and get something when God did not give it to us. Now let's take it back to sexual lust. People sin in their minds when they say "yes" to sexual temptation. Without something to like, there is no sexual temptation. We may restrain ourselves from being players and getting into the pants of the next hot person we see, but we are still sinning if we choose to fantasize. But fantasy is a choice. Fantasy is sin. If I see a hot woman, I can't help but think she's hot. What I choose to do with that is what determines whether or not I am sinning. I can choose to actively pursue her like a hound dog, passively pursue her in my fantasy life, or kick the temptation out of my head and move on.

Furthermore, is it a sin to judge people's appearance as far as liking/disliking because He created them? He also created artichokes and spinach. Is it a sin to say that you don't like this food or that? That aspect of people is no less His creation.

[chilehed]

Hi,
I was wondering, is masturbation really wrong if what you're fantasizing about isn't a real person & you'd never find it pleasurable in real life?? And you'd NEVER do what you're fantasizing about in real life? (Ecxept maybe to your future husband/wife). I mean, c'mon, what about those of us who have never dated in like 10 years, or worse, never? Don't we deserve any "sexual happiness" for ourselves, AND to help us from doing something stupid sexually (like hiring a prostitute or something)? :confused: Thanks~ :)shyfaeryxx,
I see you identify yourself as a Catholic. Why not consult the Catechism's discussion of the Sixth Commandment? It's well worth reading:
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.htm

[vinc]

The use of the word Masturbation usually suggests that the person is manipulating his or her genitals to the point of orgasm (semen leakage in males and intense height of pleasure in females).

There is absolutely no record about anyone committing Masturbation or anyone being condemned because of committing Masturbation in The Bible.

The Bible is absolutely silent on this subject. So, what everyone gives is their human viewpoint and not the real God's viewpoint.

I have talked about this subject with a good number of people. Every person has a different view on this subject. The religious christians go on to say that it is a sin. Some christians say it is not a sin. Most others encourage masturbation as a healthy, useful and natural act.

Masturbation could have been such a minor thing that it was not even found worth mentioning by the Writers of the Bible. Although they found Fornication, Adultery and Homosexuality worth mentioning in the Bible as a sin.

Spiritually immatured people who like to make major issues of minor things are the ones who condemn Masturbation exceedingly and this is wrong as per the verse below -

Matthew 23:24 - Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Everyone's physical body is different from another and hence everyone's sexuality is also different from another. Some have more sexual hormones than some others. Moreover, Female Sexuality is different and Male Sexuality is different. So, males may not be able to understand completely about Female Sexuality and females may not be able to understand completely about Male Sexuality. This has led to misunderstandings, despisings, rejection, guilty feelings, low self-esteem, persecution etc.

It is usually the people who have not masturbated much in their lives are the ones who condemn and criticise it. Some even go on to despise and punish people who indulge in Masturbation. They reveal their own hypocrisy and self-righteousness when they do that. They are no less than the hypocritical Jewish people of Jesus times who wanted to stone the woman caught in the act of adultery. Lord Jesus Christ said "He who has not committed any kind of sin let him be the first one to cast a stone" and each one of them were convicted and left the place. Finally, Lord Jesus Christ was left alone with her and He also did not condemn her but forgave her and allowed her to go in peace. Tolerance, Mercy, Forgiving Nature is part of the Christlike Spirit. Therefore let us exercise such a spirit when it comes to the matters pertaining to the flesh. Punishing someone for a sin even in the name of Christ or God is nothing less than Persection. The previous sentence is for all those self-righteous and hypocritical biting-dogs-in-sheepskin in christendom today.

Matthew 23:28 - Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

According to the above verse, Lord Jesus Christ is more concerned about the sin of hypocrisy and the sin of self-righteousness than any outward sin. Fleshly sins, Drug or Smoke or Alcohol addictions are outward sins which openly appear before the world. Lord Jesus Christ is more concerned with the inner life than the outer life as per the verse in Matthew 23:26 "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.".

Mostly those who have not had a regular sexual partner, to relieve their sexual tension, are the ones more prone to masturbation. So, those who commit fornication or adultery or homosexuality are less prone to committing masturbation because they are already releasing their sexual tension in some way. Those who are married also indulge less in masturbation as they already have a sex-partner. If the life-partner is unwilling to have regular sexual intercourse due to some quarrel/fight/bitterness then one may be tempted to commit masturbation as a safe way to ease their sexual tension instead of committing a grievous sin like adultery.

I am neither an angel from heaven nor a holy saint. I have indulged excessively in Masturbation in my younger days when i was not born-again and when i was not serious with God. All i can say is that i have reduced the frequency over the years. God was never displeased with me on account of masturbation although i was much despised by both christians and non-christians because of my indulgence and also because i frankly admitted it. I continued to grow in spiritual wisdom and experience irrespective of masturbation. It was like the Always-Merciful God who accepted my regular repentance and gave me a tremendous margin to develop my self-control over masturbation. Although i have gained a fair amount of self-control over the years i cannot boast that i will not commit masturbation again in the future as not everyone is able to live the ideal christian life which s(he) talks about.

Most young, middle-aged and even some old people indulge in masturbation now and then in order to release their sexual tension although they may be afraid to honestly admit it before anyone. Christian leaders are wary of their holy image and also concerned for the image of their sheep and therefore do not openly encourage masturbation.

Masturbation is a harmless act. I personally do not consider masturbation as a sin and neither do i despise anyone committing masturbation. Neither do i want to encourage anyone to indulge in it exceedingly.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONANISM AND MASTURBATION

Onanism mentioned in Genesis 38:9 has always been confused as a reference for masturbation in The Bible by some christians. This is wrong as Onanism is different and Masturbation is different.

Onan was not committing masturbation. Onan was supposed to have sexual intercourse with his brother's wife as his brother was dead and someone of suitable relation was to raise a Godly Seed. Onan was found to be that suitable relation and Judah ordered Onan to have sexual intercourse with his brother's wife and see to it that his semen would go into her as per God's will for him at that time. This is not for all of us though. But, Onan was jealous of raising a Godly Seed for someone else and although he had sexual intercourse with her, he spilled the semen at the end on the ground. This made God angry as he did not do according to God's plan. God was not angry with Onan for spilling the semen on the ground. He was angry because He did not allow the semen to go into her during the sexual intercourse. This does not mean that anyone can have sexual intercourse with anyone else and pour his semen into her. Certainly this is not God's plan for anyone unless they are married. This was God's plan for Onan only at that time in the Old Testament. what i want to highlight is that Onan was having sexual intercourse and not committing masturbation. Committing sexual intercourse and spilling it on the ground is different and committing masturbation and spilling it on the ground is different. We must be wise enough to note the difference here. The entire story focuses on Onan disobeying God's command and not the sexual act itself. God would never be angry if a husband has sexual intercourse with his wife and drops the semen outside as a precaution from unwanted pregnancy (Leviticus 15:18). At the same time God would never be so angry if anyone commits masturbation and then spills it anywhere. God would want us to clean/bathe ourselves afterwards for our personal hygiene and also to be presentable before anyone as mentioned in Leviticus 15:16. The thing is, Onan was told to do one thing by God and he disobeyed due to jealousy. Thatz all it is about Onan's Story and it has nothing to do with the subject of Masturbation.

Every male ejaculation releases nearly 400 million seeds and only one is necessary for fertilization. Therefore, God who knows everything would not obviously be angry if semen is spilled outside. And the resulting seminal loss is built-up again in the body within a day or two.

REGARDING SEMEN/FLUID LEAKS OR DISCHARGE WITHOUT MASTURBATION/SEX

This thing is mentioned in the Old Testament and not in the New Testament.

Leviticus 15:16,17 - And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. 17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

According to the above verse, nocturnal emissions or semen leaks or fluid discharges or wet dreams or involuntary orgasm are not sins. But, s(he) is commanded to maintain personal hygiene after the occurence.

SCRIPTURE VERSES URGING US TO AVOID THE SIN OF JUDGEMENTALISM

Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 4:3 - But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

1 Corinthians 4:5 - Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Matthew 7:5 - Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

The above verses ought to be in front of us always to be right in the sight of Lord Jesus Christ.


FROM OTHER USEFUL RESOURCES

(1) Portions from Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation) ) -
It is understood that most people begin masturbating when reaching adolescence. The results of a survey show that an overwhelming majority of the males – 81% – began masturbating between the ages of 10 and 15. Among females, the same figure was a more modest majority of 55%. It is not uncommon however to begin much earlier, and this is more frequent among females: 18% had begun by the time they turned 10, and 6% already by the time they turned 6. Being the main outlet of child sexuality, masturbation has been observed in very young children.

According to a Canadian survey, the frequency of masturbation declines after the age of 17. This decline is more drastic among females, and more gradual among males. While females aged 13-17 masturbated almost once a day on average (and almost as often as their male peers), adult women only masturbated 8-9 times a month, compared to the 18-22 among men. It is also apparent that the ability to masturbate declines with age. Adolescent youths report being able to masturbate to ejaculation six or more times per day, while men in middle age report being hard pressed to ejaculate even once per day, on a daily basis.

In part this is due to the fact that females are less likely to masturbate while in a sexual relationship than men. Both sexes occasionally engage in this activity, however, even when in sexually active relationships (or happily married). In general, individuals of either sex who are not in sexually active relationships tend to masturbate more frequently than those who are.

It is being increasingly recognised in mental health circles that masturbation can relieve depression and lead to a higher sense of self worth. Masturbation can also be particularly useful in relationships where one partner wants more sex than the other—in which case masturbation provides a balancing effect and thus a more harmonious relationship.

Both from the standpoint of avoiding unwanted pregnancy and that of avoiding sexually transmitted diseases, masturbation is the safest of sexual practices. There is no credible scientific or medical evidence that manual masturbation is damaging to either one's mental or physical health.

(2) A frank christian article on the topic of Masturbation - http://www.womenpriests.org/body/sextouch.asp (http://www.womenpriests.org/body/sextouch.asp)

(3) About Nocturnal Emission or Wet Dreams - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_emission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_emission)

(4) An article on Masturbation from the Discovery Health Channel Site - http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/sexpedia/masturbation.html (http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/sexpedia/masturbation.html)

I found the above articles on Masturbation useful to get a balanced understanding about Masturbation.

This is my honest and personal opinion.

[TheMainException]

You're response was amazing and thorough,thank you.

[vinc]

No mention LAWise520 if you were referring to my reply. I consider it my duty to speak the Truth that i believe although it may not be appreciated by some or most religious christians.

[twistedsketch]

Vinc, I know Scripture is silent on masturbation, but it is not silent on lust. Honestly, I don't see any reason to masturbate without lust.

[vinc]

TwistedSketch : There is no point in making further "laws" which can only make other sins to abound. Christendom (and the World) is already badly-affected with sins of Hypocrisy, Self-Righteousness, Hatred, Envy and Judgementalism. Most of us know that our flesh is weak although our spirit is willing. Therefore, when it comes to the matters of the flesh, i prefer to give a tremendous margin as an understanding fellow-human. It really depends from individual to individual, the upbringing, the culture and environment we live, how our younger days have passed etc. Moreover, fleshly addictions takes years or even decades to overcome. I guess many of them are hiding their private lives.

There are a few more scriptures which we need to lay emphasis on in order that better understanding prevails -

The Bible says in Romans 5:20 - Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.

The Bible says in Matthew 21:31 - Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

The Bible says in Luke 7:47 - Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

The Bible says in 1 Peter 4:1 - "for he that hath suffered (worried or mourned) in the flesh hath ceased from sin".

The above verses contain tremendous truths which cannot be ignored by us.

Moreover, there are born-again, water-baptised and spirit-filled christians (and even some christian leaders too) who are weak in their flesh although they have attained Spiritual Growth, Wisdom and Knowledge. Its like the fall-of-wickets in a cricket match. A Man of God said, "Many a Preacher have fallen sweet delilahs". Yet they are Members of the Body of Christ having "weaknesses". And 1 Corinthians 12:23 says, "And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.".

Also 1 Corinthians 13:3 says, ".... and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (meaning Godly or Divine Love), it profiteth me nothing.". According to the above verse, even if we allow our bodies to be burnt through sexual abstinence and do not have Godly Love then it profits us nothing. Mere Ascetism (or Sexual abstinence) without Godly Love is also worthless.

I do not want to encourage fleshly sins at the same time i do not want to condemn them (by quoting those Bible verses which condemn) also as most of us are sailing in the same boat as our flesh is weak. Most of us know that they are sins but still we fail and stumble. Comforting words is all that one needs to be encouraged from the guilty-feelings and depression rather than thumping bible verses like kids. Even a non-christian who happens to read the Bible can easily point out that according to the Bible certain things are mentioned as sins. It takes a spiritually-matured christian to speak in a comforting and understanding way. Usually people who have indulged in fleshly weakness are the ones who understand other people's fleshly weaknesses because they can easily place themselves in their shoes and feel for them.

I personally know a few Men of God whom God used mightily in their lives but they themselves had fleshly weaknesses and had to struggle with their sexuality. Because i was extremely close to them they revealed to me their personal lives as well and i felt happy that they found me so close as to reveal/talk so frankly with me. My respect for them only grew more in my heart because of their frankness.

We all like to hear, read, discuss, talk and preach about the so-called ideal and perfect christian life. This could be some kind of an illusion which we have created. If we are really able to live perfect and ideal lives then Praise be to The Eternal Father and Lord Jesus Christ! But, not everyone can live completely sexually-pure lives as long as they are in their fleshly body. The ideal christian life is different and the real, practical christian life in the world is different. Most of us stumble now and then, although unknowingly, sometimes foolishly and sometimes due to wordly pressures.

That is why Apostle Paul says in Galatians 6:1, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

Therefore, i have formed the above personal opinion over the years. I am not any spiritual authority on this subject. This remains as my honest and personal opinion thus far in life.

[Beta BJ]

I've found when I start attempting to justify my actions ("but everyone does it, only this once, its not that bad...") thats my warning sign to stop and do something productive and/or energy sapping. Thats why i work out/exercise when i get 'urges'. I may be a scrawny weed of a man, but this way I'm eliminating a negative habit and replacing it with a positive and healthy one.

[PaladinGirl]

Masturbation is always wrong and if done with the full consent of the will, prior knowledge of it being mortal, and maybe another qualification as well that I'm not sure of at this moment, it is a mortal sin and will endanger your salvation.

[twistedsketch]

This is not the place to debate mortal sins (which would pretty much make the Cross useless) but how can you possibly masturbate without full consent of the will?

[DawnTillery]

That said... I don't know if masturbation is a sin in all circumstances. We are not supposed to lust, but it is okay to lust after our spouses. So if a person masturbates to thoughts of their own spouse, I'm not sure that is a sin. If the person masturbates to pornography or thoughts of another person (whether real or imagined) then I believe that falls under:

I think Snooch is correct on this.



Matthew 5:27-2927 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


I also think when we are considering what is or isnt sin, we can only do what we are convicted by.
If you start rationalizing oh... it cant be a sin, then your probably already convicted by it..
I also agree that noone here on CF can tell you what is or isnt a sin for you, but you need to allow the Holy Spirit to convict you of the things that God wants you to change.
I have been praying about some things in my life I know need to be changed and dealt with, well I prayed for God to show me which things to work on and He has...

[shyfaeryxx]

Thanks for all your opinions and replies. Although It's a little confusing b/c everyone has a different opinion on it. I guess I'll just have to go with what feels right & ask God for help. I sort of understand what some of you are saying about masturbation being wrong, but I'm not sure if I think just having a crush on someone or thinking about kissing them or something is wrong..I don't know yet. Please don't get defensive,I'm not sure about it yet; I'm just saying how I feel right now at the moment. Anyway, thank you for the replies~ :-) xx

[Scholar in training]

Thanks for all your opinions and replies. Although It's a little confusing b/c everyone has a different opinion on it. I guess I'll just have to go with what feels right & ask God for help. I sort of understand what some of you are saying about masturbation being wrong, but I'm not sure if I think just having a crush on someone or thinking about kissing them or something is wrong..I don't know yet. Please don't get defensive,I'm not sure about it yet; I'm just saying how I feel right now at the moment. Anyway, thank you for the replies~ :-) xx
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a crush on someone, but I also think there's a difference between having a crush on someone and thinking about kissing them, etc. I don't know if thinking about kissing someone is wrong, but remember Jesus' words:

Matthew 5:27-30 (NIV)
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

This is hyperbole (exaggerated statements to get a point across; Jesus doesn't want us to gouge out our eyes ;)), of course, but the point remains. When we begin to lust, it becomes a slippery slope that can lead to action (and, personally, I think the lust itself idolizes the one being lusted after and degrades them from a person into an ideal). It is best, therefore, to approach these things with caution.

[acodno]

yes, but we ALL lust after people! :) It's impossible not to. It's like trying not to think about...how good that sundae looks, or how pretty someone's dress is or something LOL. I just don't see why it's WRONG!! It's not fair!! We can't stimulate ourselves sexually, or even THINK about kissing somone! *gasp* I just don't get it. Well if it is a sin, it can't be THAT big a sin, right, if he doesn't even mention masturbation in the Bible? *confused* Thanks for your reply though~ :blush: xx

I don't think you can say we ALL lust after people, only God know every single persons heart. You have to realize that the bible says all men are capable of sin, it doesn't say all men will commit every single sin, and never not be able to. I believe that if God is Lord of your life and you have given it over to him, that (with his help) it is possible not to lust after people. God can do anything, and change anything, you giving him a pretty low stamp to say that ALL people lust. On another note, the bible doesn't say the word masturbation but it also doesn't say a lot of other minor words. What it does say is (as others have said), sexual immorality. The bible isn't going to list every single specific sin and even if it did the words were a lot different when the writers of the bible were alive, and they may not word them the way we do today. I think the biggest question you have to ask yourself is if you feel enough shame over it to be asking about it and needing Gods help, then you’re probably doing something worthy of it. God wouldn't make you feel that way if it was perfectly okay and holy. Search your heart and seek God he is the only one that will give you an answer worthy enough that you will actually listen.

[radeonboy]

WRONG. Period, close these threads up. Don't try to make masturbation seem okay.

Did Jesus masturbate? NO, He was sinless. We are made in the likeness of God.

Refrain from this sinful practice.

The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is always weak. STOP.

[TheListener]

The Bible is silent on masturbation.

The Bible is also silent on watching car races.

If the Bible is silent on an issue then it really isn't an issue at all.

My personal opinion is that it's ok to watch car races.

It is also my personal opinion that the act of masturbation in itself is not a sin.

But don't confuse masturbation with lust, lust is a sin and a horribly devastating one at that.

[Jody7818]

But don't confuse masturbation with lust, lust is a sin and a horribly devastating one at that.

If we masterbate, aren't we simply lusting after our own bodies?

[theFijian]

If we masterbate, aren't we simply lusting after our own bodies?

I really don't see how one can separate masturbation and lust, especially since you are being proactive in the act.

The book Joshua Harris has written on lust - Not even a hint: Guarding your heart against lust (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590521471/002-5151065-1445642?v=glance) - is truly excellent, lots of good advice and analysis on the issue.

[twistedsketch]

Thanks for all your opinions and replies. Although It's a little confusing b/c everyone has a different opinion on it. I guess I'll just have to go with what feels right & ask God for help. I sort of understand what some of you are saying about masturbation being wrong, but I'm not sure if I think just having a crush on someone or thinking about kissing them or something is wrong..I don't know yet. Please don't get defensive,I'm not sure about it yet; I'm just saying how I feel right now at the moment. Anyway, thank you for the replies~ :-) xx
Nothing's wrong with crushes (unless that person is married, or you are married to someone else). Thinking about kissing is not what I would consider lust, but it has historically sent my mind down the slippery slope into lust, even if the "lust" doesn't happen for hours or days at a time. (Hope that wasn't too much information.)

[TheListener]

I really don't see how one can separate masturbation and lust, especially since you are being proactive in the act.

Exactly!

Masturbation in itself is not a sin, if it were it would have been there alongside the thousands of other items listed in the Bible as being offensive to God.

If you think you can masturbate without lusting after a woman that is not your wife, then enjoy! If you can not masturbate without thinking about a man or woman that is not your spouse, and I stress it's very difficult to do this, then you are sinning and offending God, and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't do all things right in my life before I became a Christian but one thing I regret is awakening love inside me before it was time. Arousal is very powerful and can cause the best of us to sin. My advice, find something else to do rather than treading on thin ice. Get more involved in your Church, find a hobby, play a sport etc etc etc. I know easier said than done but the alternative is harder to live with, trust me.

[twilightAtDawn]

I think it's wrong. Because satisfying yourself sexually by yourself or outside of marriage is not helping to calm your hormones but rather bringing them to the surface. Just the same as tasting a forbidden fruit often leads to wanting more of that, not less of that, and one of god's wishes is for us to remain sexually pure, not just physically but mentally and emotionally as well. If it's to the point where trying to satisfy yourself sexually is controling your life than you need help, because you're letting yourself be controlled by your human desires.

We do all stumble, and we do all sin, but in the end it's whether or not we ask forgivness of our sins.

[visionary]

I think it's wrong. Because satisfying yourself sexually by yourself or outside of marriage is not helping to calm your hormones but rather bringing them to the surface. Just the same as tasting a forbidden fruit often leads to wanting more of that, not less of that, and one of god's wishes is for us to remain sexually pure, not just physically but mentally and emotionally as well. If it's to the point where trying to satisfy yourself sexually is controling your life than you need help, because you're letting yourself be controlled by your human desires.

We do all stumble, and we do all sin, but in the end it's whether or not we ask forgivness of our sins.Masterbation is a sin,... think of it this way... can you pray to God while doing it? Picture yourself before God... now try to please thyself with this type of physical massage. Not good.

[acodno]

I think that this topic is too well based on what a person believes. No one is going to be satisfied with anyones answer unless it fits with what they believe. This is a non-denominational sight so the list of beliefs could go on and on and on. Everyone is trying to be so technical, it is a sin, its not a sin, and so on. don't allow yourself to right or wrong something based on legalism, because you will search forever trying to find the right verse to manipulate what will make your problems go away. God sent Jesus not only to forgive us of our sins, but also to live a perfect life, so that we would have an example to live our lives by. If you are a Christian then you believe this, because the word Christian means Christ like. If we are to live like Christ then that is the bottom line. Ask yourself if you really believe Christ indulged in any sexual acts (in his perfect life), and you will have the answer your looking for.

[Jody7818]

the word Christian means Christ like. If we are to live like Christ then that is the bottom line. Ask yourself if you really believe Christ indulged in any sexual acts (in his perfect life), and you will have the answer your looking for.

Amen! :thumbsup:

[intricatic]

There's a point that people don't seem to register when it comes to sin. Sin is not an individual thing - there are no individual sins. They are a collection of things that manifest in rejecting God. That's the simplest way to put it - and it needs only that simple explanation. If it makes you turn your sights away from God, or makes you feel inwardly isolated and lost it is probably a sin. Masturbation is one of those things as it creates a barrier between you and God. Just because it dosn't say in the Bible 'Thou shalt not masturbate' doesn't mean it's OK to do. I think everyone struggles with problems like this, though. The best thing to do is confront it, not try to normalize it and make it seem justified.

[holo]

It is a sin for Americans and catholics to masturbate. That's about all I can conclude from this thread.

[acodno]

yeah..so I suggest you all go somewhere else and debate this whole "lust" deal.

I was under the impression that this was the kind of place we're supposed to go to discuss things.

[acodno]

It is a sin for Americans and catholics to masturbate. That's about all I can conclude from this thread.

If you are suggesting that by everyone's comments, they are making a stereotype I think you should look back over the threads. You have been the only one to name names, and labels. Anyone who reads these threads and reads well, knows that people are saying they don't think Christians should masturbate (based on what the bible teaches). These are just people's opinions, they are not experts, but everyone has something too contribute based on what they have learned in life. If Americans or catholics were prominent it was only to say that is the point of view from which they come. Anyone who concludes they're saying anything different is just looking for excuses to knock people's opinions (for which they are free to give on this website).

To those of you who have had your opinion knocked, I would just like to say that if you are speaking your heart and from the bible, God will allow the right person to benefit from it. Don't allow others to discourage you from speaking what God has laid upon your heart to speak.

[holo]

I was just making a light-hearted comment in this heavy discussion. But it has caughy my attention that, in general, americans and catholics are the ones most prone to condemn things like masturbation.

[D_Versace]

Somewhere in the Bible, not to sure which quotation it is, but it says doing something and being unsure whether or not it is a sin.. is a sin! If you believe in your heart (and only u know this) that it is God's will, so be it. But if you are unsure, don't do it.

[280305]

Wow, its great you have raised such a taboo topic and for that I say good on you! I admire your courage!

Scripturally, I would say that it is wrong to idolise or exalt another before the Father, which fantasising about women is. Its an inherently selfish act.

It is commanded of us that in whatever we do we do it for the glory of the Lord giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Does it feel right when we masturbate? In my experience - no. Sure, its good at the time but afterwards is there a wholesome, God honouring feeling? I'm sure there would be a not insignificant few who would say no. Me included.

Thus, I have asked the Lord to remove this from me as I wish to repent of that old habit.

Also I would believe that it is NEVER wise to do wrong in order that a right can be achieved.

If you want to get rid of the habit, give it to the Lord. Let him use your body for his purposes, for his glory, and look at women as the wonderful creations of God as they are, destined for eternal relationship with the Father. If you are tempted, pray as best as you know how. You'll get there! And trust me, its not a problem for younger people either... you should go to christiananswers.net for the stories of destruction masturbation has wrecked on Christian men's lives.

[If Not For Grace]

Its an inherently selfish act.


So are bubble baths.

[revivalgurl]

quote:so are bubblebaths -end of quote
alch conviction there lol

[scotsbaker]

I came across an Australian website some time ago and it contains probably the most comrehensive, insightful and biblical answer on the web to the question posed about masturbation. If you do a search on Google on "towards a christian view of sexual self-stimulation" you will pick it up.

[Snooz]

Masturbation is not a sin at all. Only christian fanatics will tell you it is. God doesn't care if you masturbate or not. If God give pleasure to man when he masturbate, then it is not a sin. God only care if you are good or not with people. God care if you help the poor, if you help those who are in need...

Remember that God don't allowed adultery, but if you are alone, then there are no more adultery. You can masturbate whenever you want, you don't commit adultery since you are not married.

Be aware of several people, because if you believe them, then your life will be a nightmare. For few christians, salvation comes from pain. It is the contrary, God didn't make us to be sad, he want us to be happy and to make good things around us!!

[Scholar in training]

Masturbation is not a sin at all. Only christian fanatics will tell you it is. God doesn't care if you masturbate or not. If God give pleasure to man when he masturbate, then it is not a sin. God only care if you are good or not with people. God care if you help the poor, if you help those who are in need...
So something is not a sin if God supposedly gives pleasure to the person doing it? What about pre-marital sex? Incest? :scratch:

Remember that God don't allowed adultery, but if you are alone, then there are no more adultery. You can masturbate whenever you want, you don't commit adultery since you are not married.
Masturbation involves lust. Christ told us not to lust, so that our thoughts do not lead to action.

Be aware of several people, because if you believe them, then your life will be a nightmare. For few christians, salvation comes from pain. It is the contrary, God didn't make us to be sad, he want us to be happy and to make good things around us!!
God loves us enough to let us know that some things which we enjoy are harmful, and not profitable nor beneficial.

[holo]

Snooz has got it figured out. Good perspective!

[Snooz]

Stop being puritans. Remember that in the bible sex has an important place. In the bible you can read the story of a man who have sex with its daughters, another one masturbate in other not have a children...

Masturbating is normal, it helps to feel better when you are alone. Never mind about those who are condemning it.

Enjoy life because life is the gift of God.
Be happy and you'll spread your happiness through other people...

[Scholar in training]

Stop being puritans.
Stop being liberal.

Remember that in the bible sex has an important place.
Yes, it does. Does masturbation really treat sex with the respect and integrity it deserves?

In the bible you can read the story of a man who have sex with its daughters, another one masturbate in other not have a children...
You can read about a king who killed a man and took his wife, Bathsheba, for his own, too, but that doesn't mean it is right (on the contrary, God called the king out on it through the prophet Nathan!).

Masturbating is normal, it helps to feel better when you are alone. Never mind about those who are condemning it.
Stealing is normal, it helps you feel better when you have nothing better to do or when you're poor. Never mind those who are condemning it.

Be happy and you'll spread your happiness through other people...
One gets a rush from stealing, too. I don't think that means that stealing is good, or that one should "spread [their] happiness through other people" by telling them about the joy of robbery.

I would appreciate it if you answered the questions in my last post.

Holo: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

[holo]

Stop being puritans.
Stop being liberal.
lol

Stealing is normal, it helps you feel better when you have nothing better to do or when you're poor. Never mind those who are condemning it.Stealing obviously hurts other people, masturbation doesn't.

Holo: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"Not sure what exactly your point is here. I don't see masturbation as sinful, not for me anyway.

[flyingsum0]

And there is no "big" sin or "little" sin. All sin is an abomination in God's eyes. That's why I have a personal problem with the people who get all up in arms over things like homosexuality, but don't seem to have a problem with sins of pride or laziness or over-eating, etc. Sin is sin, there is no big sin or little sin, it's all sin, and it's all just as bad as every other sin in God's eyes - and none of us are exempt from it.

Very well said!

[Snooz]

Confucius said: "When the Wise man points at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger."
I'm afraid some guys here are looking at the finger...

The important is to look at the message of the Christ: "Love each other", and not to try to see the evil everywhere!
Sincerly, God doesn't care if you masturbate or not, there are other things that are more important....

[woobadooba]

Your guilt answers your question.

If God weren't moving in your life, you wouldn't feel guilty about doing it. And for the simple fact that you are asking us if it is or isn't right to do, evidences that you are replete with guilt.

You are looking for someone to tell you that it is ok. A True Christian would not agree that it is ok. Instead, he would tell you that God didn't design your hand to be used in that way.

Really, how do you give glory to God by masturbating?

Everything that we do ought to be done to the glory of God. This is the best way to determine that ones actions are in harmony with God's will.

You won't feel bad about doing good, nor will you feel good about doing that which is bad, unless you just don't care. But even then you will feel some guilt. No sane person that does something wrong is truly guiltless, although they may pretend to be.

The advice of following your heart is not Christian either!

The Bible says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the ends thereof are the ways of death."Prov. 14:12

The Bible doesn't teach us that we should follow our heart, but that we should walk even as Jesus walked.

Don't resist the Spirit, but pray for victory!

By the way, Confucius was an atheist.

[holo]

[QUOTE=woobadoobaYour guilt answers your question.

If God weren't moving in your life, you wouldn't feel guilty about doing it.[/QUOTE]Sorry, but that's not true. You can't say that it's wrong simply because somebody may feel guilty about it. Our conscience doesn't tell us right from wrong in this respect. I, for example, felt guilty about setting my feet in a pub for many years. Not because it was wrong, but because of my upbringing. Our conscience is flawed.

[QUOTE=woobadoobaReally, how do you give glory to God by masturbating?

Everything that we do ought to be done to the glory of God. This is the best way to determine that ones actions are in harmony with God's will.QUOTE]You don't give glory to God by eating a carrot or a piece of chocolate either.

Consider what God cares about the most. You won't find whether or not you masturbate very high on that list.

[intricatic]

I was just making a light-hearted comment in this heavy discussion. But it has caughy my attention that, in general, americans and catholics are the ones most prone to condemn things like masturbation.
I don't condemn it at all. For myself I try to distance myself from it, to keep myself from doing it, but for others I won't even ask. LOL

It's between you and God (you being the proverbial you - everyone reading).

[woobadooba]

Sorry, but that's not true. You can't say that it's wrong simply because somebody may feel guilty about it. Our conscience doesn't tell us right from wrong in this respect. I, for example, felt guilty about setting my feet in a pub for many years. Not because it was wrong, but because of my upbringing. Our conscience is flawed.

[QUOTE=woobadoobaReally, how do you give glory to God by masturbating?

Everything that we do ought to be done to the glory of God. This is the best way to determine that ones actions are in harmony with God's will.QUOTE]You don't give glory to God by eating a carrot or a piece of chocolate either.

Consider what God cares about the most. You won't find whether or not you masturbate very high on that list.

The Bible teaches us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Question: Is masturbating of faith or is it something that belongs to the carnal nature?

Sin is sin. It makes no difference to what degree it is, it is still sin.

God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One would think, "hey, it's just a piece of fruit, what's the big deal? There are by far more greater sins than these!"

But look what that one sinful act did to humanity!

Sin is sin! Just one sin was enough to put Jesus on a cross.

So don't you dare try to deceive people into believing that some sins aren't as bad as others!

You should be encouraging your brother to do what is right. Instead, you are encouraging him to indulge in a sinful act!

Op! Do not listen to this man's counsel! It is not of God.

[holo]

I'm not encouraging people to indulge in sinful acts. I'm saying that I can't simply decide that masturbation is wrong for everybody at any time. While our conscience may be unreliable, one should listen to one's heart.

And I disagree with the notion that one person masturbating would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross. He died to reconcile us with God, not just because I did some little thing imperfectly. And yes, there are way more important things than whether people masturbate or not. The style of the pharisees hasn't died out - we still strive to keep this or that moral standard while forgetting all about love.

[woobadooba]

"I'm not encouraging people to indulge in sinful acts."

If you can't see that you are encouraging the OP to continue masturbating, then there is something seriously wrong with your logic.

"I'm saying that I can't simply decide that masturbation is wrong for everybody at any time."

It isn't for you to decide. The Bible makes it very clear that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. And masturbation is not of faith; it belongs to the carnal nature!

Tell me, how do you masturbate to the glory of God?

"While our conscience may be unreliable, one should listen to one's heart."

This thought is nonsense. Your conscience is your heart! Unless of course you think your literal heart thinks for you. And that would be nonsense too.

"And I disagree with the notion that one person masturbating would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross."

Don't twist what I said! I said one sin was enough to nail Jesus to the cross. Therefore, there is no sin that is of a higher degree than any other. Sin is sin.

"He died to reconcile us with God, not just because I did some little thing imperfectly."

He died to save you from yourself because your imperfection could never save you.


"And yes, there are way more important things than whether people masturbate or not."

And some would use the same argument to support using drugs. Look, what's most important is that you seek to walk even as Jesus walked. There is nothing more important than that. And as long as you continue to resist the Spirit, you will never come to know Him as you ought to.

"The style of the pharisees hasn't died out - we still strive to keep this or that moral standard while forgetting all about love."

Love is not blind faith! God is love. And God loves you. But it is because God loves you that He COMMANDS you to do His will.

Love is telling you right now to stop resisting the Spirit. But hate tells you to assume such love to be pharisaical.

Choose you this day whom you will serve!

[Scholar in training]

The important is to look at the message of the Christ: "Love each other". . .
Are you loving somebody else by lusting after them?

. . .and not to try to see the evil everywhere!
I believe these are your words, not Christ's.

there are other things that are more important....
Yes, there are. So why waste time masturbating?

While our conscience may be unreliable, one should listen to one's heart.
How is this a meaningful statement, and how does one listen to one's heart?

[holo]

"I'm not encouraging people to indulge in sinful acts."

If you can't see that you are encouraging the OP to continue masturbating, then there is something seriously wrong with your logic.My point is that I don't see masturbation as sinful. Also, I'm not encouraging anybody to masturbate. Just sharing my opinion that it's not a sin.

"I'm saying that I can't simply decide that masturbation is wrong for everybody at any time."

It isn't for you to decide. The Bible makes it very clear that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. And masturbation is not of faith; it belongs to the carnal nature!Well, there are people who masturbate "in faith". In faith that it's not wrong. The same with drinking alcohol. Some people can't have a beer in faith, so obviously they shouldn't.

Tell me, how do you masturbate to the glory of God?I don't, not anymore than I scratch my back to the glory of God.

"While our conscience may be unreliable, one should listen to one's heart."

This thought is nonsense. Your conscience is your heart! Unless of course you think your literal heart thinks for you. And that would be nonsense too.I remember one time I felt in my heart to drive to another town and visit a friend. My conscience told me not to - I would miss service, and I had to cancel an appointment. But I decided to follow my heart. I went, and I met God in a most wonderful way, and learned some thing I really needed to. My heart was right. God speaks to my heart, not my conscience, but we're sadly not "trained" to listen to it.

"And I disagree with the notion that one person masturbating would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross."

Don't twist what I said! I said one sin was enough to nail Jesus to the cross. Therefore, there is no sin that is of a higher degree than any other. Sin is sin.I guess I misunderstood your logic then. You say masturbation is a sin, and one sin would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross, therefore I must assume that your position is that if I masturbate once, that would be enough to make Jesus die on a cross.

"And yes, there are way more important things than whether people masturbate or not."

And some would use the same argument to support using drugs[/color]. [color=Blue]Look, what's most important is that you seek to walk even as Jesus walked. There is nothing more important than that. And as long as you continue to resist the Spirit, you will never come to know Him as you ought to.Yes, Jesus is my role model, and I don't think he would ever nag anyone about masturbation. I think it's a really insignificant subject for Him. Also, this whole labeling of this and that as sinful or not sinful, is missing the mark IMO.

"The style of the pharisees hasn't died out - we still strive to keep this or that moral standard while forgetting all about love."

]Love is not blind faith! God is love. And God loves you. But it is because God loves you that He COMMANDS you to do His will.OK, but God hasn't commanded me not to masturbate or to tell people that it's sinful.

Love is telling you right now to stop resisting the Spirit. But hate tells you to assume such love to be pharisaical.No, it's not the Spirit, it's just you. I'm not saying it would be ok for you to masturbate or drink beer or anything.

[Snooz]

The Bible teaches us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Question: Is masturbating of faith or is it something that belongs to the carnal nature?

Sin is sin. It makes no difference to what degree it is, it is still sin.



Woobadooba,

You've got the same thinking as the Taleban, the Taleban forbid all that is not an act of faith: making photos, listening to music, dansing, even laughing in public was forbidden...

Is that kind of life you want? :confused: :cry:

Life is gift...we must enjoy it!;)

[woobadooba]

Woobadooba,

You've got the same thinking as the Taleban, the Taleban forbid all that is not an act of faith: making photos, listening to music, dansing, even laughing in public was forbidden...

Is that kind of life you want? :confused: :cry:

Life is gift...we must enjoy it!;)

And you would say the same thing to Paul, if he were alive today, since he is the one that said it initially!

Don't resist the Spirit!

[woobadooba]

"Well, there are people who masturbate "in faith". In faith that it's not wrong. The same with drinking alcohol. Some people can't have a beer in faith, so obviously they shouldn't."

There are also people who murder innocent people in faith, but you wouldn't agree that that is right would you? Your logic says it is right!


"I don't, not anymore than I scratch my back to the glory of God."

This is an out of context thought! There is a significant difference between scratching ones back and masturbating!

And do you lust while you scratch your back, or only when you masturbate?

"I remember one time I felt in my heart to drive to another town and visit a friend. My conscience told me not to - I would miss service, and I had to cancel an appointment. But I decided to follow my heart. I went, and I met God in a most wonderful way, and learned some thing I really needed to. My heart was right. God speaks to my heart, not my conscience, but we're sadly not "trained" to listen to it."

Again you are out of context. If I follow this line of reason I can justify anything that I do. All I have to say is "God told me to do it. Therefore, it is ok!" By the way, if God tells you to masturbate, why do you feel so guilty about it after the fact?


"I guess I misunderstood your logic then. You say masturbation is a sin, and one sin would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross, therefore I must assume that your position is that if I masturbate once, that would be enough to make Jesus die on a cross."

Don't play word games with me. You know what I meant. One sin was enough to put Jesus on the cross. Therefore, there is no such thing as degrees of sin in the sense that one is worse than the other. That was the issue that I addressed with you. You are taking what I said out of context.

"Yes, Jesus is my role model, and I don't think he would ever nag anyone about masturbation. I think it's a really insignificant subject for Him. Also, this whole labeling of this and that as sinful or not sinful, is missing the mark IMO."

And what is that mark? To be like Jesus? To be holy? To keep oneself unstained from the world? How do you do all of this when you keep resisting the Spirit?

"OK, but God hasn't commanded me not to masturbate or to tell people that it's sinful."

And God hasn't commanded you to not smoke cigarettes or dope either, but surely you wouldn't agree that it is ok to do such things.

"No, it's not the Spirit, it's just you. I'm not saying it would be ok for you to masturbate or drink beer or anything."

Oh, so now I understand your position... As long as no one tells you what is right and wrong, a sin and not a sin, then that person is filled with the Spirit. But as soon as someone tells you about what is sin, that person's counsel is not of God.

OP, I will advise you again not to take any of this man's counsel. It isn't of God.

[holo]

"Well, there are people who masturbate "in faith". In faith that it's not wrong. The same with drinking alcohol. Some people can't have a beer in faith, so obviously they shouldn't."

There are also people who murder innocent people in faith, but you wouldn't agree that that is right would you? Your logic says it is rightNo, it doesn't. Killing someone is obviously harmful to others. My point is that I can't just tell anyone whether or not they could or should have a beer. I don't know their hearts and faith.

"I don't, not anymore than I scratch my back to the glory of God."

This is an out of context thought! There is a significant difference between scratching ones back and masturbating
(...)
And do you lust while you scratch your back, or only when you masturbate?
I don't see it that way at all, I honestly don't see how it's so incredibly different. Both activities are solely to please oneself. You don't need lust to masturbate, only an erection.

"I remember one time I felt in my heart to drive to another town and visit a friend. My conscience told me not to - I would miss service, and I had to cancel an appointment. But I decided to follow my heart. I went, and I met God in a most wonderful way, and learned some thing I really needed to. My heart was right. God speaks to my heart, not my conscience, but we're sadly not "trained" to listen to it."

Again you are out of context. If I follow this line of reason I can justify anything that I do. All I have to say is "God told me to do it. Therefore, it is ok!" By the way, if God tells you to masturbate, why do you feel so guilty about it after the fact?Yeah, I guess you could try to justify everything that way, if in fact you need to justify it. In the incident I mentioned, I only needed to justify it to my conscience. It's nobody else's business, and neither is masturbation.

God doesn't tell me to masturbate, and I don't feel guilty about it. He doesn't tell me what to eat either, I have the freedom to choose.


"I guess I misunderstood your logic then. You say masturbation is a sin, and one sin would be enough to nail Jesus to the cross, therefore I must assume that your position is that if I masturbate once, that would be enough to make Jesus die on a cross."

Don't play word games with me. You know what I meant. One sin was enough to put Jesus on the cross. Therefore, there is no such thing as degrees of sin in the sense that one is worse than the other. That was the issue that I addressed with you. You are taking what I said out of context.
I'm not playing word games, I honestly tried following the logic that one sin was enough to nail Jesus to the cross. That one sin could be anything, if I understand you correctly. BTW, I disagree that one sin isn't worse than another. Killing someone is obviously worse than lying.

"Yes, Jesus is my role model, and I don't think he would ever nag anyone about masturbation. I think it's a really insignificant subject for Him. Also, this whole labeling of this and that as sinful or not sinful, is missing the mark IMO."

And what is that mark? To be like Jesus? To be holy? To keep oneself unstained from the world? How do you do all of this when you keep resisting the Spirit?I don't know what the point and goal of your life is, so I couldn't really tell you if you miss the mark or not. But of course, some things apply to us all, like walking in love. That's a good mark to aim at.
Why do you keep saying I'm resisting the Spirit? I simply disagree with you on this particular subject. If you'd known my story you'd never say such a thing.

"OK, but God hasn't commanded me not to masturbate or to tell people that it's sinful."

And God hasn't commanded you to not smoke cigarettes or dope either, but surely you wouldn't agree that it is ok to do such things.True, but I don't think God is holding it against me that I smoke. Obviosly, He'd rather I didn't, I suppose, because the cigarettes may kill me.

"No, it's not the Spirit, it's just you. I'm not saying it would be ok for you to masturbate or drink beer or anything."

Oh, so now I understand your position... As long as no one tells you what is right and wrong, a sin and not a sin, then that person is filled with the Spirit. But as soon as someone tells you about what is sin, that person's counsel is not of God.I don't need a human to tell me wrong from right, that's the Spirit's business, the anointing that we've been given. Tips and advice is always welcome, though. Why are christians so preoccupied with what's sinful and not anyway? Why are so few of them simply preaching the gospel? (that's not aimed at you in particular, it's just something that bothers me).

[holo]

Another thing,
OP, I will advise you again not to take any of this man's counsel. It isn't of God.That's true, it's nothing but my opinion. Just like what you've said. When God speaks, He doesn't insult His listeners.

[woobadooba]

Another thing,
That's true, it's nothing but my opinion. Just like what you've said. When God speaks, He doesn't insult His listeners.

You can call it what you will. If you want to take it as an insult, then that is your right.

The Bible tells us to abstain from sexual immorality. Now, how is it that having sex with yourself(masturbating)doesn't fall into the category of sexual immorality?

And that is precisely what you are doing when you masturbate; you are having sex with yourself.

God told the man and the woman to be fruitful and multiply. He made the penis for the vagina, not the hand for the penis!

[Snooz]

The Bible tells us to abstain from sexual immorality. Now, how is it that having sex with yourself(masturbating)doesn't fall into the category of sexual immorality?

And that is precisely what you are doing when you masturbate; you are having sex with yourself.

God told the man and the woman to be fruitful and multiply. He made the penis for the vagina, not the hand for the penis!


Immorality...is subjective!
Please quote from the Bible a texte that forbid masturbation!!
For me sexual immorality is adultere, pedophilia , zoophilia!!

Bible only forbid Adultere!!!!
When you "make love with yourself", you don't commit an aldutere!!!!!:amen:

If Masturbation is a sin, I'll burn into the hell :cry:

[holo]

The Bible tells us to abstain from sexual immorality. Now, how is it that having sex with yourself(masturbating)doesn't fall into the category of sexual immorality?I really don't see how it does. I don't know how masturbation can be a moral issue at all.

And that is precisely what you are doing when you masturbate; you are having sex with yourself.I think calling it "sex" is going pretty far - I doubt it will fit into any definition of what is considered sex (but I haven't studied these definitions either). By the way, if it's considered sex, does that mean you're not a virgin anymore if you do it? I think you're reading an awful lot into the whole "be fruitful" thing. That was something God told Adam and Eve - he wanted more people on earth. It doesn't have anything to do with masturbation.
I'm curious, do you see contraception as sinful too, for these reasons? Not looking to start a(nother) debate on that, just wondering.

[woobadooba]

There just isn't any sense in arguing with you people anymore about this issue.

Op, and anyone else who isn't sure about this issue, my suggestion is to not resist the Spirit.

It is quite clear who is and isn't resisting the Spirit on this issue.

You know who they are, and my advice to you is to not accept their counsel.

Many will come to you as wolves in sheep's clothing. Beware!

[holo]

Op, and anyone else who isn't sure about this issue, my suggestion is to not resist the Spirit.That's my advice too. That's why I don't, and can't, tell anyone to do either this or that - get to know the Spirit so that He can guide you.

[woobadooba]

That's my advice too. That's why I don't, and can't, tell anyone to do either this or that - get to know the Spirit so that He can guide you.

And yet another interesting remark.

Do you mean to tell me that a person can't know the Spirit well enough to give counsel that is of the Spirit?

Do you mean to tell us that you don't know the Spirit well enough to offer anything more than an opinion on this issue?

This proves my point exactly! Thank you for revealing to us that your counsel isn't of God, but merely of your own opinion.

There is a way which seems right to a man, but the ends thereof are the ways of death.

[trubeliever]

Hey Snooz. we had a BIG huge discussion about this on a diff thread (guys only) but ne wayz... yes unfortnuately it IS wrong to masturbate. Unfortunately as well its hard to explain it. You are Catholic and I know about you're venial and mortal sins and ive learned about how they work (in one of the threads here actually). It will be hard to explain. No you will not find a verse in teh Bible that says "do not masturbate, that is wrong" But then again, you do not see a verse that says "Do not smoke weed". I had some problems with this but i realized that God was answering this questino for me. I don't know about you but when I masturbate my relationship with God deteriorates and i feel so alone and like I have betrayed Him. There must be something in your mind that says it is wrong and yes it is hard... VERY hard. Yes you do lust, just like you do lie in life or disrespect you're parents. But it is wrong nonetheless and a sin nonetheless. Just because it is hard not to do it it doesnt justify it. My advice is to ask God to answer this question for you personally.

God Bless
TB

[holo]

And yet another interesting remark.

Do you mean to tell me that a person can't know the Spirit well enough to give counsel that is of the Spirit?

Do you mean to tell us that you don't know the Spirit well enough to offer anything more than an opinion on this issue?

This proves my point exactly! Thank you for revealing to us that your counsel isn't of God, but merely of your own opinion.

There is a way which seems right to a man, but the ends thereof are the ways of death.You seem very sure that the Spirit is in fact telling you that not only is masturbation a sin for everybody in any situation and culture at any time, but that He is also telling you to say this on CF.

I have a friend who I used to drink and get high with. Now he's totally abstinent from alcohol and other drugs, while I still enjoy a beer and two. He felt led and guided by the Spirit to quit it altogether, for me it was different. For him it would be a sin to buy a beer, for me, it's not a problem at all. We go to pubs together, he has coke, I have beer. We're perfectly ok with it. There's no way he would use what the Spirit has personally communicated to him, and pressuring me into doing the same. And vice versa. It's extremely important that we realize that people are not only different, but at different places in their personal walks and have different experiences.

He drinks his coke in faith and giving thanks and praises to God for it. I do the same with beer. None of us are wrong, but we're both r100% right.

But of course, the Spirit may talk to me through another man's words. When that happens to me, it's usually without the other guy's knowledge. Words are said, ideas come up in conversations and comments, and I take them to heart because I'm slowly growing accustomed to how the Spirit reveals things to me.

But I can say for sure that even if you should be correct in what you're saying here, it's not God speaking through you, because then you'd say it in a gentle manner.

You have offered nothing but your personal opinion, just as I have. Any poster and reader here needs guidance by the Spirit more than our opinions. Perhaps God will use some of what we've posted to reveal something to someone. It's not my concern and responsibility.

[woobadooba]

You seem very sure that the Spirit is in fact telling you that not only is masturbation a sin for everybody in any situation and culture at any time, but that He is also telling you to say this on CF.

I have a friend who I used to drink and get high with. Now he's totally abstinent from alcohol and other drugs, while I still enjoy a beer and two. He felt led and guided by the Spirit to quit it altogether, for me it was different. For him it would be a sin to buy a beer, for me, it's not a problem at all. We go to pubs together, he has coke, I have beer. We're perfectly ok with it. There's no way he would use what the Spirit has personally communicated to him, and pressuring me into doing the same. And vice versa. It's extremely important that we realize that people are not only different, but at different places in their personal walks and have different experiences.

He drinks his coke in faith and giving thanks and praises to God for it. I do the same with beer. None of us are wrong, but we're both r100% right.

But of course, the Spirit may talk to me through another man's words. When that happens to me, it's usually without the other guy's knowledge. Words are said, ideas come up in conversations and comments, and I take them to heart because I'm slowly growing accustomed to how the Spirit reveals things to me.

But I can say for sure that even if you should be correct in what you're saying here, it's not God speaking through you, because then you'd say it in a gentle manner.

You have offered nothing but your personal opinion, just as I have. Any poster and reader here needs guidance by the Spirit more than our opinions. Perhaps God will use some of what we've posted to reveal something to someone. It's not my concern and responsibility.

What you are really saying here is that what's true for you isn't necessarily going to be true for me. And what is a moral issue for me isn't necessarily going to be a moral issue for you. Thus you are a relativist.

How can God be so confused that He would reveal to me that it is wrong to masturbate, but reveal to you that it is ok?

But you really aren't saying that God says it is ok, but that it is just your personal opinion. Hence, you really don't know if it is or isn't ok with God that you masturbate.

Yet, you are very adament about telling me that I am wrong for telling you that it is wrong. Now if you admit that it is merely your own opinion that it is ok, how is it that you can be so sure that the Spirit hasn't led me to inform you that it isn't?

And as for being gentle, that is a matter of perspective. Was Jesus gentle when He overthrew the tables of the money changers? Was He gentle when He called the Pharisees hypocrites and liars? Will He show Himself to be gentle in the day of judgment?

Thus to tell me that my counsel to you is not of the Spirit because it doesn't concur with your definition of the word gentle, is invalid.

[Snooz]

What you are really saying here is that what's true for you isn't necessarily going to be true for me. And what is a moral issue for me isn't necessarily going to be a moral issue for you. Thus you are a relativist.

How can God be so confused that He would reveal to me that it is wrong to masturbate, but reveal to you that it is ok?


Yet, you are very adament about telling me that I am wrong for telling you that it is wrong. Now if you admit that it is merely your own opinion that it is ok, how is it that you can be so sure that the Spirit hasn't led me to inform you that it isn't?



You are saying "God told me"; how did he reveal that you ? By your conscience!!

I am sorry but your conscience is not universal !!!

Some islamists are sure that for their god, suicide-bombing is an act of faith, does it mean that for all humanity, suicide-bombing is an act of faith???

On the contrary to Holo, God reveal to me that masturbating is not a sin, masturbating is a matter for the lonely persons to cope with their natural needs (their hormons of you prefer)!!!
So I express a revelation of God, not just an opinion like holo!

Why do you disagree with me??

[Scholar in training]

On the contrary to Holo, God reveal to me that masturbating is not a sin, masturbating is a matter for the lonely persons to cope with their natural needs (their hormons of you prefer)!!!
How do you know that your revelation is of God? How do you know to trust that revelation, your conscience, or whatever you are appealing to?

[Snooz]

How do you know that your revelation is of God? How do you know to trust that revelation, your conscience, or whatever you are appealing to?

because God create us to be happy, to have pleasure (that's why he gives us hormons and sex)...
These hormons are parts of us, they influenced ourself. If a man is not married, then masturbating is one (or THE) solution for him to know the pleasure given by god to humans (without making adultere)!!

A lot of lonely person would suffer if they cant masturbate! Does God want these persons (who already suffer from loneliness) to suffer again because of their hormons ????

[woobadooba]

You are saying "God told me"; how did he reveal that you ? By your conscience!!

I am sorry but your conscience is not universal !!!

Some islamists are sure that for their god, suicide-bombing is an act of faith, does it mean that for all humanity, suicide-bombing is an act of faith???

On the contrary to Holo, God reveal to me that masturbating is not a sin, masturbating is a matter for the lonely persons to cope with their natural needs (their hormons of you prefer)!!!
So I express a revelation of God, not just an opinion like holo!

Why do you disagree with me??

The Bible makes it quite clear that we are to cast our cares on Jesus(this includes the cares of the lonely man too by the way).

And because the Bible says this, I know that you are deceived into believing that God has revealed to you that it is ok to masturbate to appease your lonliness.

And I've already stated that masturbating is another form of sexual immorality. Did you know that the Greeks had a problem with this too? It is good to know your history when trying to grasp the context of any given passage in the Bible. Paul gave the Greeks instruction to abstain from sexual immorality. Now if there is a such thing as sexual immorality, there must likewise be a such thing as moral sexuality.

And so not only is masturbating a moral issue, it is a universal mandate that one ought not to engage the act of, since it is another form of sexual immorality.


Why do you resist the Spirit?

[woobadooba]

because God create us to be happy, to have pleasure (that's why he gives us hormons and sex)...
These hormons are parts of us, they influenced ourself. If a man is not married, then masturbating is one (or THE) solution for him to know the pleasure given by god to humans (without making adultere)!!

A lot of lonely person would suffer if they cant masturbate! Does God want these persons (who already suffer from loneliness) to suffer again because of their hormons ????

Both alcoholics and drug addicts have used this line of reasoning to support their abuse of such substances. They either cast their cares in the bottle or the bowl, and you cast your cares in your hand.

There is no difference! You are all casting your cares somewhere else when you should be casting your cares on Christ!

[trubeliever]

because God create us to be happy, to have pleasure (that's why he gives us hormons and sex)...
These hormons are parts of us, they influenced ourself. If a man is not married, then masturbating is one (or THE) solution for him to know the pleasure given by god to humans (without making adultere)!!

A lot of lonely person would suffer if they cant masturbate! Does God want these persons (who already suffer from loneliness) to suffer again because of their hormons ????

Yes God created us to be happy. TRUE happinness can only be found in christ. Fake happinnes is like winning the lottery or sexual pleasure. But let's just say that THAT is happinnes. Yes God still wants us to be happy. But that doesn't mean that we are then allowed to do whatever makes us happy. If going around shooting everyone makes us happy, He's not gonna say 'Okay:D as long as ur happy... ' I don't think he created us to have pleasure though... and that's deffinitely NOT why he gave us hormones and sex :P. I'm sure you know that he gave us sex to reproduce and populate the earth. If not then I can find you the verse. So no sex and sexual pleasure were not given to us to please ourselves. I am also pretty sure that masturbation is NOT NECESSARY and it truly is a thing of the mind. I am sure that Jesus did not masturbate and that Abraham and Moses didn't struggle with it. It is more of a modern thing like a lot of bad things. There is no purpose in masturbation except to please yourself and that is not what your hand was meant for or your hormones or whatever. Doing this is VERY selfish. Suffering from not masturbating is like suffering when you are an alcoholic and haven't drank in a long time. Do you think God wants these people to suffer? no, do you think He'll say yes you're suffering, have a drink and just fine for tonight go and wasted. No. The hormones do not make us suffer.

God Bless
TB

[woobadooba]

Yes God created us to be happy. TRUE happinness can only be found in christ. Fake happinnes is like winning the lottery or sexual pleasure. But let's just say that THAT is happinnes. Yes God still wants us to be happy. But that doesn't mean that we are then allowed to do whatever makes us happy. If going around shooting everyone makes us happy, He's not gonna say 'Okay:D as long as ur happy... ' I don't think he created us to have pleasure though... and that's deffinitely NOT why he gave us hormones and sex :P. I'm sure you know that he gave us sex to reproduce and populate the earth. If not then I can find you the verse. So no sex and sexual pleasure were not given to us to please ourselves. I am also pretty sure that masturbation is NOT NECESSARY and it truly is a thing of the mind. I am sure that Jesus did not masturbate and that Abraham and Moses didn't struggle with it. It is more of a modern thing like a lot of bad things. There is no purpose in masturbation except to please yourself and that is not what your hand was meant for or your hormones or whatever. Doing this is VERY selfish. Suffering from not masturbating is like suffering when you are an alcoholic and haven't drank in a long time. Do you think God wants these people to suffer? no, do you think He'll say yes you're suffering, have a drink and just fine for tonight go and wasted. No. The hormones do not make us suffer.

God Bless
TB

I am happy to see that you are sensible enough to know that masturbation is immoral. However, I disagree with you about the pleasure part.

God does want us to have pleasure. If He didn't, He wouldn't have made it possible for us to have an orgasm.

Nevertheless, God never intended that we abuse that gift of pleasure, or that would profane it.

Masturbation is indeed the devil's counterfeit for God's gift of sex to men and women.

As I had mentioned before, masturbating is the same thing as having sex with yourself. And any sexual act that profanes God's design/purpose for sex, falls into the category of sexual immorality, and is therefore condemned by God.

[trubeliever]

However, I disagree with you about the pleasure part.

O yes yes i'm sorry there. I do know that yes God did create sexual pleasure for us to enjoy. But it is not something to abuse like you said or to just do when you are sad or bored or just "feel like you just HAVE to" Orgasms are for us to enjoy just like sex is. But sex is to be enjoyed with that special someone in marriage just like orgasm is to be enjoyed with that same person. Sorry once again for the misunderstanding :o

TB

[Snooz]

Yes God created us to be happy. TRUE happinness can only be found in christ.
TB

my friend, WORLD ALREADY EXISTS BEFORE JESUS CAME!!!

So, do you mean the millions of men and women living for centuries before Jesus come to earth could never get true happiness ???

Do you think, God left all this people ? Do you think he don't care about the happiness of these people..???

Before Jesus come, there were also great civilisations like the Greek one, with plenty of philosophers...

[holo]

What you are really saying here is that what's true for you isn't necessarily going to be true for me. And what is a moral issue for me isn't necessarily going to be a moral issue for you. Thus you are a relativist.No, my point is that "alcohol is bad", for example, isn't true for everyone. It's not a universal truths. But it is true that it's bad for my friend. The point being the person, not the act in and of itself.
It's true that it would be wrong for me to have sex with miss X. It's also true that it wouldn't be wrong for mr. Y, because he's her wife.

How can God be so confused that He would reveal to me that it is wrong to masturbate, but reveal to you that it is ok?Not confused - personal.

But you really aren't saying that God says it is ok, but that it is just your personal opinion. Hence, you really don't know if it is or isn't ok with God that you masturbate.I'm careful when it c