Identifying Mark of GOD

[illuminator]

Through the ages,many have proclaimed their faith and godly devotion.They've built great temples and had many wars in gods name.
Do you think that these ones who kill will be saved?

God's law supercedes any manmade laws.



Anyone who has read the bible knows that it stresses the point of love.
In fact that is what Jesus told his followers would be their identifying mark.It would be their love for one another....

Why don't we see it very much today?

[tyreth]

Through the ages,many have proclaimed their faith and godly devotion.They've built great temples and had many wars in gods name.
Do you think that these ones who kill will be saved?

What is your question?

Are you asking "if someone fights in a war, are they saved?" Or are you asking about specific wars?

Of course some who have fought in wars are saved, and have taken lives without sinning. Otherwise God Himself would never have ordered the Israelites to take lives and fight wars when He did.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I know some awesome Christians serving overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'd recommend studying the Bible in its entirety. There were plenty of people who killed who were blessed by God.

Personally I am a very peace-loving sort and have lost people I know in the current war. I admit to being torn, but I also saw some of the horror during Saddam's reign and know something had to be done. How much better would I be if I knew what evil was occuring and turned my back on the people tormented by the evil? I wouldn't be very proud of myself, that's for sure. I can tell you, the Christians I know fighting this war do love the Iraqi's. You don't hear about any of the good they do on the news but it is there. Just never assume because you haven't witnessed something yourself that it does not exist.

God bless.

[illuminator]

I have read in the old testament of the wars that took place.Even the ones where GOD had brought ancient armies to ruin.

Jesus taught a new set of laws.Teaching us to love or neighbor ,and pray for our enemy.
My question is.....Based on what you've read in the new testament how does GOD view murder?

Thanks.




Let thee judge no man,for thee shall be judged more harshly....

[WesWoodell]

Through the ages,many have proclaimed their faith and godly devotion.They've built great temples and had many wars in gods name.
Do you think that these ones who kill will be saved?

God's law supercedes any manmade laws.



Anyone who has read the bible knows that it stresses the point of love.
In fact that is what Jesus told his followers would be their identifying mark.It would be their love for one another....

Why don't we see it very much today?


Seeing as how God commanded the Israelites to fight many times, I would say yes, people who have killed will be saved.

You are also forgetting the fact that we serve a merciful and forgiving Lord. Murderers, adulterers, slanderers - once forgiven, these people will join the rest of God's children in eternity.

[WesWoodell]

My question is.....Based on what you've read in the new testament how does GOD view murder?


God views murder as sinful, but is murder the same thing as killing?

[Entertaining_Angels]

I have read in the old testament of the wars that took place.Even the ones where GOD had brought ancient armies to ruin.

Jesus taught a new set of laws.Teaching us to love or neighbor ,and pray for our enemy.
My question is.....Based on what you've read in the new testament how does GOD view murder?

Thanks.




Let thee judge no man,for thee shall be judged more harshly....

So, when Jesus came, was anything that was allowed before suddenly banned? I know we are no longer bound by the law (i.e. you don't have to be circumcised but that doesn't make circumcision a sin now).

And, yes, I do see murder as different from killing. For example, an older driver falls asleep at the wheel, plows into another vehicle killing the driver and on the other side of town, you have a guy who butchers his wife and unborn baby because they've had an argument. I wouldn't hold the driver of that vehicle and the butcher to the same standards.

[Warrior Poet]

I wouldn't hold the driver of that vehicle and the butcher to the same standards.

But would God?

I think a lot falls on the shoulders of personaly responsibility.

Warrior Poet

[illuminator]

Thanks for you guys imput.It does seem that he would judge each individual situation.It's just something that I've wondered about for a while.

Peace be with all

[Imana]

You are also forgetting the fact that we serve a merciful and forgiving Lord. Murderers, adulterers, slanderers - once forgiven, these people will join the rest of God's children in eternity.

wOOt! :amen:

Anyone that says "once a adulterer, always an adulterer" (or something to that effect) is a lie straight from hell. That person doesn't know what he/she is talking about, whatsoever.

[illuminator]

You're right Avenger....People can change...
Paul is a prime example of that,he was known for being an avid persecuter of christians.He had zeal, but it was in persecuting god's servants.He was even present when the faithfull Stephen was stoned.

Then God's spirit showed him the way,he repented of his sins and became a tool used by God in spreading the ministry.


peace and love

[Imana]

You're right Avenger....People can change...
Paul is a prime example of that,he was known for being an avid persecuter of christians.He had zeal, but it was in persecuting god's servants.He was even present when the faithfull Stephen was stoned.

Then God's spirit showed him the way,he repented of his sins and became a tool used by God in spreading the ministry.


peace and love

:amen:

[Telrunya]

Murder:

noun: unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being
verb: kill intentionally and with premeditation
verb: alter so as to make unrecognizable

Kill:

verb: cause to die
noun: the act of terminating a life
noun: the destruction of an enemy plane or ship or tank or missile

All murders involve killing but not all killings are murders. They are differant things. Murder is a sin. Killing is not. I have fought in war and been forced to take another life. I did not desire to do so, nor am I proud of what I have done. I do not believe however that I have sinned in that reguard. Someone used an example earlier of a driver falling asleep at the wheel compared to someone who butchers his own family over an arguement. I think a better question would be if someone breaks into your home and is murdering your family, would it be a sin to kill that person? The answer is an emphatic no. We are also called to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. If it is money then you pay your taxes if it is military service then you serve in the military.

[Warrior Poet]

Murder:

noun: unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being
verb: kill intentionally and with premeditation
verb: alter so as to make unrecognizable

Kill:

verb: cause to die
noun: the act of terminating a life
noun: the destruction of an enemy plane or ship or tank or missile

All murders involve killing but not all killings are murders. They are differant things. Murder is a sin. Killing is not. I have fought in war and been forced to take another life. I did not desire to do so, nor am I proud of what I have done. I do not believe however that I have sinned in that reguard. Someone used an example earlier of a driver falling asleep at the wheel compared to someone who butchers his own family over an arguement. I think a better question would be if someone breaks into your home and is murdering your family, would it be a sin to kill that person? The answer is an emphatic no. We are also called to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. If it is money then you pay your taxes if it is military service then you serve in the military.


Thank you for serving this country, I do not think that it is said enough.

"Ceaser" in this case did not make you join the military, it was your choice, knowledge that you may take ones life had to be there, no? Its a patriotic duty in yours and my country, one that can be served in other ways, obviously none larger then putting your life on the line. What eventually swayed your choice to join a "group" who's job at some point may require you to kill? Did you believe that your were justified before the actual action took place?

(Vietnam IMO was not a choice for many, but you are too young to have served then :D )

I have always wanted to ask this, but never could get it to sound as if I wasn't frowing on it, which is not my intentions.

I am not calling it a sin, and it sounds as if you take personal responsibility for your actions, which is my stance on the issue.

You do not need to answer if you dont want... like you need my permission :D

Thanks,

Warrior Poet

[soldout]

Through the ages,many have proclaimed their faith and godly devotion.They've built great temples and had many wars in gods name.
Do you think that these ones who kill will be saved?

God's law supercedes any manmade laws.



Anyone who has read the bible knows that it stresses the point of love.
In fact that is what Jesus told his followers would be their identifying mark.It would be their love for one another....

Why don't we see it very much today?

Did God say don't kill? Or did God say don't murder?

This is not rhetorical.

[illuminator]

What if we chose not to kill/murder someone who may have rightfully deserved it.What IF they found GOD and totally done a 360 degree. turnaround.They became saved.

Do you think it would be better for us when it came to the great judgement?

love all and pray for thy enemy

[soldout]

What if we chose not to kill/murder someone who may have rightfully deserved it.What IF they found GOD and totally done a 360 degree. turnaround.They became saved.

Do you think it would be better for us when it came to the great judgement?

love all and pray for thy enemy

Well, for starters a 360 degree turnaround puts them right back on the original path. Repentence is a 180 degree turn heading in the opposite direction.

I think I must be misunderstanding your point. Are you saying a person should be able to stand before God and say in essence, "look God there's somebody I didn't kill. Therefore pat me on the back"?

[illuminator]

I think I must be misunderstanding your point. Are you saying a person should be able to stand before God and say in essence, "look God there's somebody I didn't kill. Therefore pat me on the back"?


If we think like that ,should we be expecting a pat on the back when we choose not to sleep with that beautiful woman we're not married to or steal that $$$ that isn't ours.

For the record,the only thing GOD does "owe" us humans is death.It was out of love he sent down his son on our behalf.

Just as the world turns around 360 degrees,we behold a new day.

peace

[Telrunya]

Thank you for serving this country, I do not think that it is said enough.

"Ceaser" in this case did not make you join the military, it was your choice, knowledge that you may take ones life had to be there, no? Its a patriotic duty in yours and my country, one that can be served in other ways, obviously none larger then putting your life on the line. What eventually swayed your choice to join a "group" who's job at some point may require you to kill? Did you believe that your were justified before the actual action took place?

(Vietnam IMO was not a choice for many, but you are too young to have served then :D )

I have always wanted to ask this, but never could get it to sound as if I wasn't frowing on it, which is not my intentions.

I am not calling it a sin, and it sounds as if you take personal responsibility for your actions, which is my stance on the issue.

You do not need to answer if you dont want... like you need my permission :D

Thanks,

Warrior Poet

Life has been rather hectic lately and I'm really just now getting back to the forums for any real time and just saw your post asking about my veiw of my military service.

I joined the military because while it is not required by law, I felt was my duty to my country. I believe very strongly in the ideal that the United States stands for and realize that it must be defended. Yes I knew when I joined that the taking of life may be required of me even as I hoped it wouldn't be. I also realized that an unjust congress or president could send me to fight in a war I did not agree with. That, however, did not in any way mitigate what I felt was my responsibility to serve my country.

[JFrench]

I think God is Sovereign - and "...not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). I think that if someone were lost, and God knew that they were going to come to Christ Jesus sometime in their future, that He would step in and prevent that person from being killed. (But that's just my opinion - based on my personal relationship with God). Even though there have been untold numbers of people who have died from wars, disease, or natural causes that have never heard of the name Jesus - that's another topic.

War is a different matter from killing though - there will always be wars until the end of this age. God's people are called to be peacemakers, but sometimes war is just unavoidable. It is possible to love and pray for your enemies while fighting them and even killing them. Killing doesn't necessarily equal hate. Sometimes the greater good and the greater love is to fight, kill, or die for others. I wouldn't mix this up with suiside bombers or murder/mass murder. People who kill for an "anti-Christ" cause is murder - they fight, kill, or die for themselves, for their own reward in their version of "heaven". It's right to kill known criminals (Exodus 21:1), it's not right to murder innocent people (Exodus 20:13). "Innocent until proven guilty" - although American, is based on God's Laws. God's Law was very specific about the distinction between killing and murder. (Exodus 21)

illuminator — the New Testament fulfils the Old, it doesn't nullify it. ALL Scripture is profitable (2 Timothy 3:16). Jesus clarified and explained God's Law and broke off the parts the religious leaders had added themselves. God's entire Word reveals God's opinion and heart on all matters that we all deal with, so in reading and understanding God's view, we know what ours should be. Jesus understood the realities of this fallen world - and used principles of war and peace in one of his parables (Luke 14:27-35). I don't think the New Testament conflicts with the Old - it's all about balance. For instance, Matthew 5:39-40 says, "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also", but Ephesians 6:13 says, "Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm." One is refering to physical and the other is refering to spiritual, but both are connected. There is a time and a place for all things - following the Holy Spirit's lead gives us God's wisdom to know where, when, and how.

[ctcfbernard]

Amen Sister!

Preach it!