Seventh-day adventists

[Faith In God]

To Seventh-day adventists:

What are some of the doctrines of Seventh-day adventism?

To others:

What are your impressions of the church?

[Hisgirl]

http://www.truthorfables.com/

Here is a site with testimonies from ex-seventh day aventists. One of the biggest problems with this church is the heavy weight they place on the words of Ellen White. Her words were not questioned and practically had the same weight as scripture. This site will shed some light on their teachings.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

SDA are not fundamentalists so this is the wrong forum to ask questions to them on.

1. http://www.adventist.org (the official site)
2. http://www.ellenwhite.org (An expose of the SDA churches "prophetess"

[aggie03]

Well, I agree with flesh, but I will also say that I believe they have an incorrect view of the Sabbath and the relation of the Old Law to the Christian.

[WesWoodell]

Yes. And they were way off on predicting the end of the world (more than once). :)

[aggie03]

I didn't know they predicted the end of the world...interesting...everyone is always wrong when they do that...who'da thunk it :confused:

(1 Thessalonians 5:2 ;) )

[WesWoodell]

They did at least twice in the 1800s. That's actually how their denomination started - a man predicting the end of the world on a specific date gathered followers to himself.

[joyinhim]

To Seventh-day adventists:

What are some of the doctrines of Seventh-day adventism?

To others:

What are your impressions of the church?

I was ignorant about the Sabbath. I am not SDA member but started Sabbath on Saturday.

[Faith In God]

They did at least twice in the 1800s. That's actually how their denomination started - a man predicting the end of the world on a specific date gathered followers to himself.
How about an Ellen White?

And also, what do SDAs say about that 1844 thing?

[aggie03]

I was ignorant about the Sabbath.

What were you ignorant about concerning the Sabbath?

I am not SDA member but started Sabbath on Saturday.

The Sabbath has always been on Saturday. Christians are not called to worship on the Sabbath, but rather on the first day of the week.

[joyinhim]

What were you ignorant about concerning the Sabbath?



The Sabbath has always been on Saturday. Christians are not called to worship on the Sabbath, but rather on the first day of the week.

Where in the Bible say that we should worship on the first day of the week?

[Faith In God]

What were you ignorant about concerning the Sabbath?



The Sabbath has always been on Saturday. Christians are not called to worship on the Sabbath, but rather on the first day of the week.
No Scripture for that. The Catholic church officially changed the day of worship.

[joyinhim]

No Scripture for that. The Catholic church officially changed the day of worship.

I am sorry. I don't follow church laws. I follow His laws.;)

[aggie03]

No Scripture for that. The Catholic church officially changed the day of worship.

Actually there is an example of this in the New Testament. First of all, the Old Covenant was fulfilled in Christ. Because it was fulfilled, Christians are no longer bound by the Old Covenant. This is why it is no longer necessary to sacrifice animals, to go to Jerusalem on certain holy days, to have incense, to give heave offerings, grain offerings and peace offerings, to have a Levitical priesthood, to wear the special priestly garments, or to circumcise children on the 8th day after their birth.

Now there is a New Covenant under which men can come to God - this is the reason that Bible are divided into the New and Old Testaments (testament is another word for covenant). Since we are no longer bound by the Old Law, we must search through the New Testament and find out how we are to worship God, how we are to live our lives, and how we are to be reconciled to God. This is largely what the letter to the Hebrews is about.

When we read through the New Testament, there are two things that we see the Christians doing: (1) they met practically every day to study and learn about God, to take care of each other and to worship (2) they met on the first day of the week to take the Lord's Supper. The examples that we have specifically enumerated of this occurring the New Testament are on the first day of the week.

I do not believe that the first day of the week is the "Christian Sabbath" as some in the past have tried to explain, but rather I think that it is the day that the Lord has chosen for Christians to partake of the Lord's Supper. The Sabbath, the physical day with all of the rituals as described in the Old Testament, has been done away with. The last day of the week is simply the last day of the week now.

In Acts 20:7, the Christians were gathered to take the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week (Sunday). I believe that this is the case for several reasons. Firstly, Jesus Christ arose from the dead on the first day of the week. Secondly, the church was started on the day of Pentecost which was also on the first day of the week. John when writing the Apocalypse states that he had his vision on the Lord's Day. There are writings from shortly after the time that the Apocalypse (Revelation) was written that refer to the first day of the week as the Lord's Day. Conversely, there is never any mention of anything special happening amongst Christians that would be specific or set apart about the last day of the week (Saturday). Christians did come together to worship, study and learn, but they did that every day. In the New Testament the only day that seems to be set apart from the others is the first day of the week on which the Lord's Supper should be taken.

[joyinhim]

I don't try or will not change His commandmants. It says clearly that "remember Sabbath and keep it holy". My mind is set and will not debate about it.

[aggie03]

I don't try or will not change His commandmants. It says clearly that "remember Sabbath and keep it holy". My mind is set and will not debate about it.

It says that in the Old Testament. Read Hebrews 8-10.

[Airdude]

Christians are not called to worship on the Sabbath, but rather on the first day of the week.

Can you show this from scripture?:cool:

[Airdude]

If God wanted to change His day of worship I believe He would have made it clear to us in the NT. There is not any mention of Him telling us to keep the first day holy, nor is there any mention of the Sabbath being done away with. :thumbsup:

"Remember the seventh day to keep it holy..." This is what God desires from us. What kind of fickle god would change his mind. MY God never changes! :cool:

[Airdude]

I don't try or will not change His commandmants. It says clearly that "remember Sabbath and keep it holy". My mind is set and will not debate about it.



It says that in the Old Testament. Read Hebrews 8-10.

Is the Old Testament somehow less inspired than the New Testament? Hebrews 8-10 deals specifically with the the sanctuary service. There is not any mention of the Sabbath being done away with there. :cool:

[joyinhim]

Is the Old Testament somehow less inspired than the New Testament? Hebrews 8-10 deals specifically with the the sanctuary service. There is not any mention of the Sabbath being done away with there. :cool:

Thank you air dude for your clarification.:thumbsup:

[aggie03]

If God wanted to change His day of worship I believe He would have made it clear to us in the NT. There is not any mention of Him telling us to keep the first day holy, nor is there any mention of the Sabbath being done away with.

Let's turn your logic around. Where is the authority to worship on the last day of the week? Where in the New Testament are Christians commanded to follow the Old Law? No where.

"Remember the seventh day to keep it holy..." This is what God desires from us. What kind of fickle god would change his mind. MY God never changes! :cool:

So you still use Levitical priests, take trips to Jerusalem each year on certain holy days, sacrifice animals, and maintain all of the ordinances from the Old Law?

[Faith In God]

Actually there is an example of this in the New Testament. First of all, the Old Covenant was fulfilled in Christ. Because it was fulfilled, Christians are no longer bound by the Old Covenant. This is why it is no longer necessary to sacrifice animals, to go to Jerusalem on certain holy days, to have incense, to give heave offerings, grain offerings and peace offerings, to have a Levitical priesthood, to wear the special priestly garments, or to circumcise children on the 8th day after their birth.
Does this apply to the Law of God? If it does, then it's as okay to steal as it is to break the Sabbath.
Now there is a New Covenant under which men can come to God - this is the reason that Bible are divided into the New and Old Testaments (testament is another word for covenant). Since we are no longer bound by the Old Law, we must search through the New Testament and find out how we are to worship God, how we are to live our lives, and how we are to be reconciled to God. This is largely what the letter to the Hebrews is about. The "Old Law" is the ceremonial law, not the Law of God. The ceremonial law was the 'law of Moses' while the Ten Commandments are referred to as the "Law of God".

When we read through the New Testament, there are two things that we see the Christians doing: (1) they met practically every day to study and learn about God, to take care of each other and to worship (2) they met on the first day of the week to take the Lord's Supper. The examples that we have specifically enumerated of this occurring the New Testament are on the first day of the week.
Show some. My Bible talks about Christians regularly meeting on the Sabbath. Any references otherwise are irregularities (ie Paul talking till midnight on Sunday because he wanted to leave the next day.)
I do not believe that the first day of the week is the "Christian Sabbath" as some in the past have tried to explain, but rather I think that it is the day that the Lord has chosen for Christians to partake of the Lord's Supper. Scripture. The Sabbath, the physical day with all of the rituals as described in the Old Testament, has been done away with. The last day of the week is simply the last day of the week now.
Show Scripture for this. If the Ten Commandments were done away with, why isn't it okay to steal? Or lie? Or blaspheme? Why are all but the fourth commandment still important? If the custom of circumcision was so hot, why not the national day of worship (why don't we hear more about them making it clear that the Sabbath doesn't matter anymore)?
In Acts 20:7, the Christians were gathered to take the Lord's Supper on the first day of the week (Sunday). What? It says they were gathered to "break bread" ie "eat", and the reason for the gathering on Sunday was that he was going to leave the next day. That's why they gathered. Conversely, there is never any mention of anything special happening amongst Christians that would be specific or set apart about the last day of the week (Saturday). Christians did come together to worship, study and learn, but they did that every day. In the New Testament the only day that seems to be set apart from the others is the first day of the week on which the Lord's Supper should be taken.
What? I'll reiterate my statement:

Circumcision was a national custom that was done away with, because it was part of "Moses' law". And the Jews debated very hotly about this law alone. Now, the Sabbath was an even bigger issue, as it concerned "God's Law" rather than the law of Moses, and it was the national day of worship.

We wouldn't hear of any resounding messages that Saterday was set apart because it says it so blasted clearly already in the Ten Commandments. Why didn't we hear anything about it being changed? One of the Ten Commandments?

Also, I will ask again, why are all the Commandments of God still important except the fourth?

[Faith In God]

SDAs, what about the false prediction of the second coming that is in the history of this denomination? 1844.

[Airdude]

Let's turn your logic around. Where is the authority to worship on the last day of the week? Where in the New Testament are Christians commanded to follow the Old Law? No where.





The point here is that nowhere in the New Testament were Christians instructed to stop keeping the seventh day. You don't find that anywhere in the New Testament.


So you still use Levitical priests, take trips to Jerusalem each year on certain holy days, sacrifice animals, and maintain all of the ordinances from the Old Law?


No I do not. These are part of the Ceremonial Law that was done away with at the cross as part of God's plan of salvation. The Sabbath is the fourth commandment of the Moral Law which has not ever been changed.

If you are willing to throw out the fourth commandment then you had better be willing to do without the other nine. Be ready to accept lying, stealing, adultery etc!
I can't condone these can you?:D

[Airdude]

SDAs, what about the false prediction of the second coming that is in the history of this denomination? 1844.


The SDA church freely admits that this happened. The people who did this realized and admitted that they made an error and vowed to never again try to set dates. The 1844 group were actually Millerites. The SDA movement did come out of that group but were not organized as the SDA denomination until 1861 or 1862.

[Faith In God]

The SDA church freely admits that this happened. The people who did this realized and admitted that they made an error and vowed to never again try to set dates. :) The 1844 group were actually Millerites. The SDA movement did come out of that group but were not organized as the SDA denomination until 1861 or 1862.

[aggie03]

In response to the bulk of what most have posted, there are places in the New Testament where Christians are told not to steal, not to commit adultery, and not to do a host of other things. One does not have to look back to the Old Testament for those things.

If you no longer follow the laws, all of the laws as they are found under the Old Covenant, then, as was stated earlier, either God has changed or the Old Covenant was done away with. You can take your pick...I opt for there being a New Covenant. Again, this is why the Bible is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The SDA church freely admits that this happened. The people who did this realized and admitted that they made an error and vowed to never again try to set dates. The 1844 group were actually Millerites. The SDA movement did come out of that group but were not organized as the SDA denomination until 1861 or 1862.
This is an incorrect statement. EGW set dates and timeframes for years in her writings and never failed to be completely wrong. In fact the shut door doctrine which removes Christ from the right hand of the Father and thus denies scripture is based on the failed prophecy. The history of the SDA movement is quite intriguing. It was founded by Arians and there is a movement within the church, albeit small, to return to Arian doctrines.

[JVD]

I honestly don't think that it is required that we meet on the first day either. Although there are biblical hints that the early church used the first day to gather together, Col. 2:16 frees us to meet on any day. We are to meet together regularly for fellowship, worship, and to remember Christ's sacrifice. But the day we do it is not important.

Continuing to use the Sabbath as a "holy day" is just as much religiosity as is vegetarianism in the name of holiness. If SDA's would study the beginnings of their church with an open mind I believe just as many would leave that cult as do Mormons who look into Joseph Smith's shenanigans.

Jesus Christ has freed you to do to things, 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. The rest is religiosity.

[joyinhim]

I honestly don't think that it is required that we meet on the first day either. Although there are biblical hints that the early church used the first day to gather together, Col. 2:16 frees us to meet on any day. We are to meet together regularly for fellowship, worship, and to remember Christ's sacrifice. But the day we do it is not important.

Continuing to use the Sabbath as a "holy day" is just as much religiosity as is vegetarianism in the name of holiness. If SDA's would study the beginnings of their church with an open mind I believe just as many would leave that cult as do Mormons who look into Joseph Smith's shenanigans.

Jesus Christ has freed you to do to things, 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. The rest is religiosity.

If we are trying to keep those two commandments we will keep ten commandments too.

[Bulldog]

No Scripture for that. The Catholic church officially changed the day of worship.

No, they didn't. Early Christians had been worshipping on the first day of the week before any church pronouncement.

[doglover]

http://www.truthorfables.com/

Here is a site with testimonies from ex-seventh day aventists. One of the biggest problems with this church is the heavy weight they place on the words of Ellen White. Her words were not questioned and practically had the same weight as scripture. This site will shed some light on their teachings.
I totally agree. My BESTEST BESTEST friend ever is a SDA, but that doesn't mean that I believe everything she does. Ellen White is one of my main problems with the SDA church.

[doglover]

I think that the SDA church ppl make WAY too big of deal about worshipping on Saturday instead of Sunday. It doesn't matter! God WILL NOT cast a person into Hell if he/she worships on Sunday, or Saturday for that matter. God told us in the New Testament that we are no longer bound to the laws of the Old Testament. God wants our worship on a DAILY basis! He doesn't just want it on Saturday, or Sunday. Does it really matter in the end? IMHO, it's an extremely petty thing to argue about. Whatever day a person chooses to go to church on is their choice. I don't care. All I care about is their hearts. Do they want to serve the Lord on a daily basis, or fight over what day to serve the Lord on?

[aggie03]

No, they didn't. Early Christians had been worshipping on the first day of the week before any church pronouncement.

You are exactly right :) This is precisely what we see in Acts 20:7.

[Airdude]

It was founded by Arians and there is a movement within the church, albeit small, to return to Arian doctrines.

Yes, some of the founders did bring arian views with them from their previous religious backgrounds. They eventually changed their views though. There may be a small movement in the church with these views, but they are not supported by the church.

[aggie03]

Does this apply to the Law of God? If it does, then it's as okay to steal as it is to break the Sabbath. The "Old Law" is the ceremonial law, not the Law of God.

I disagree with the logic that you are presenting in that it denies the fact that God could very well tell us things in the New Testament that we ought not to do. For instance, Ephesians 4:28 makes it very clear that Christians are not to steal. The Old Law, the Old Testament, the Old Covenant refers to the entire volume of scrolls that makes up what we call the Old Testament. This was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Once Jesus Christ fulfilled this Old Covenant, it had served its purpose. It has since been replaced by the New Covenant -- which clearly teaches that it is wrong to steal.


The ceremonial law was the 'law of Moses' while the Ten Commandments are referred to as the "Law of God".

More than what you are calling the "ceremonial law" was received through Moses. The ten commandments were received through Moses. The sundry laws were received through Moses - many different commands were given through Moses - all at Sinai. In Galatians chapter three Paul explains that the Old Covenant shut up all under sin and it was impossible to receive salvation through that covenant - therefore it is necessary to have the new one.

We must also not forget that any law or commandment that came from God carries the same weight as James makes it abundantly clear when he says the following:

James 2:10 ASV

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.


My Bible talks about Christians regularly meeting on the Sabbath.

The Scriptures make mention of Christians coming together on every day - that is not an irregularity. The only day, however, that the New Testament ever talks about Christians partaking of the Lord's Supper is on the first day of the week.

Any references otherwise are irregularities (ie Paul talking till midnight on Sunday because he wanted to leave the next day.)

Why were they irregular? Can you prove that? Simply saying this doesn't make it true.


Scripture. Show Scripture for this. If the Ten Commandments were done away with, why isn't it okay to steal? Or lie? Or blaspheme? Why are all but the fourth commandment still important?

Everything that you have just mentioned is commanded against in the
NEWTestament. The only commandment that is NEVER given in the New Testament to Christians is to keep the Sabbath.

If the custom of circumcision was so hot, why not the national day of worship (why don't we hear more about them making it clear that the Sabbath doesn't matter anymore)? What? It says they were gathered to "break bread" ie "eat", and the reason for the gathering on Sunday was that he was going to leave the next day. That's why they gathered.
What? I'll reiterate my statement:

Authority, the key word here is authority. Notice that circumcision is never commanded? This is why Christians do not have to be circumcised....same thing with the Sabbath. If you want to prove that Christians must worship on the Sabbath then you must show the authority for that from the NEW Testament.

Circumcision was a national custom that was done away with, because it was part of "Moses' law".

Circumcision was not a "national custom" under the Old Covenant - it was a commandment of God that had to be followed. It was not optional.

And the Jews debated very hotly about this law alone.

The Jews debated very hotly over the ENTIRE old law having to be followed. In Acts 15 the question at hand was whether or not the Gentiles must be circumcised (this dates to Abraham) and keep the law (this dates to Sinai - the ten commandments are part of this).

Now, the Sabbath was an even bigger issue, as it concerned "God's Law" rather than the law of Moses, and it was the national day of worship.

I don't see this distinction made by Jesus or any of the Apostles in the New Testament. In fact, any law that comes from God is "God's Law".

We wouldn't hear of any resounding messages that Saterday was set apart because it says it so blasted clearly already in the Ten Commandments.

It's also very clearly stated in the New Testament that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. Gentiles around the world would not necessarily be familiar with the Sabbath of the Jews - surely it would have been mentioned at least once in the New Testament if we were to keep it. Why isn't it commanded even one time?

Why didn't we hear anything about it being changed? One of the Ten Commandments?

Actually, Hebrews, Galatians and Colossians make it very clear that the entire Old Covenant is no longer in effect. Everything a Christian needs to do is contained in the New Testament. Amazingly enough, all of the "ten commandments" are repearted except the Sabbath. Why do you think that is?

Also, I will ask again, why are all the Commandments of God still important except the fourth?

The commands in the New Testament are what Christians must follow now. I believe this has been made clear in the previous portions of this post.

[Airdude]

If you want to prove that Christians must worship on the Sabbath then you must show the authority for that from the NEW Testament.




So, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament even though it is a very large part of God's inspired word? Your demands for New Testament authority are groundless due to the fact that the Sabbath was established in Genesis at the creation and there is not one verse in the New Testament commanding a change from what God had already established at the creation of the universe and then reinforced at Mt. Sinai via the Ten Commandments which are God's "Moral Law." These were set apart from the rest of the Old Testament "Ceremonial Law." The Ten Commandments were the only ones inscribe in stone tablets by God's finger. The others were also given to Moses from God, but were not inscribed in stone.:D

[aggie03]

So, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament even though it is a very large part of God's inspired word?

I believe that I have already covered this. You are commiting the logical fallacy of creating a false dillema. You seem to be stating that the Old Covenant must in place or not used for anything at all. This is simply not the case. There is an "in between". The Old Covenant is no longer bound upon Christians because it has been fulfilled. Is it still usefulto learn about who God is? Yes, absolutely. Do I have to kill my ox if it was wont to gore and it goreth another man's ox? No, I don't.

Your demands for New Testament authority are groundless

The claim is not groundless. Hebrews chapter one makes it clear that God speaks now through His son. John 14-16 make it clear that Jesus was going to reveal all things to His apostles. 1 Corinthians 2 tells us exactly how this happens. Matthew 28 tells us that all authority has been given to Jesus, and then He tells the disciples to teach converts to do the things that Jesus commanded. Similarly, Colossians 3:17 tells us to all things in the name of, or by the authoirty of the Lord Jesus. Paul says in Ephesians 3:4 that when we read the things he has written we can learn the revelation that was given to him in Christ. In Acts 20:20 Paul says the he did not shrink from declaring the whole counsel of God. This means that we can learn everything that God wants us to know through the writtings in the New Testament. I believe the logic and the deductions are very clear.

Speaking about declaring the whole counsel of God, if this is true, where in the New Testament does Paul proclaim the Sabbath? No where. Do any of the other Apostles or holy prophets proclaim the Sabbath? No. This means that in the New Covenant it is not part of the counsel of God; Christians are not bound by it.

due to the fact that the Sabbath was established in Genesis at the creation and there is not one verse in the New Testament commanding a change from what God had already established at the creation of the universe and then reinforced at Mt. Sinai via the Ten Commandments which are God's "Moral Law."

You seem to be missing the contrast between the physical nature of the Old Covenant and the spiritual nature of the New Covenant. In Hebrews it is clear that there is still a Sabbath rest for the people of God, a spiritual "Sabbath rest" for Christians. This passage also makes it clear that the Sabbath rest of the Old Covenant was not what was intended, but rather, like the rest of the Old Covenant, it was a shadow of the things to come. This spiritual rest that is promised to the Christian will be entered into when they have lived their life faithfully to the end (Revelations 2:10):

Hebrews 4:1-16 ASV

Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. (2) For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. (3) For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (4) For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; (5) and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest. (6) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience, (7) he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts. (8) For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. (9) There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. (10) For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. (11) Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience. (12) For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. (13) And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (14) Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. (15) For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (16) Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.

These were set apart from the rest of the Old Testament "Ceremonial Law."

The "remainder of the law" is not all ceremonial. What is ceremonial about the sundry laws? Where does the Bible separate these out as being different from the rest?

The Ten Commandments were the only ones inscribe in stone tablets by God's finger. The others were also given to Moses from God, but were not inscribed in stone.:D

They were written in the book of the law which was kept throughout the generations of the Israelites and read frequently. The information you have stated does not prove what you are trying to assert. I would appreciate some passages from the New Testament that clearly indicate what you are trying to prove.

Additionally, God promises a new covenant that will be written on something other than stone - hearts. In this New Covenant that is written on hearts never, not once is the Sabbath ever commanded. Why would that be?

[Airdude]

They were written in the book of the law which was kept throughout the generations of the Israelites and read frequently. The information you have stated does not prove what you are trying to assert. I would appreciate some passages from the New Testament that clearly indicate what you are trying to prove.




So its true. You are trying to throw out the Old Testament.


In this New Covenant that is written on hearts never, not once is the Sabbath ever commanded. Why would that be?



Because there is nothing that in the New Testament that ever changed the Sabbath. It is not there.



Speaking about declaring the whole counsel of God, if this is true, where in the New Testament does Paul proclaim the Sabbath? No where. Do any of the other Apostles or holy prophets proclaim the Sabbath? No. This means that in the New Covenant it is not part of the counsel of God; Christians are not bound by it.


If you are going to proclaim the "Whole counsel of God" you had better include the Old Testament as well as the New! If not you are subtracting from scripture.

Paul and the other apostles did not have a need to specifically proclaim the Sabbath as Holy because the Sabbath was the only day that had ever been set aside as holy in the entire history of the earth preceding them! :preach:

[BigNorsk]

It is easy to get things mixed up concerning the law, including the 10 Commandments.

When we come into Christ, we die with Christ. It is this death that we represent when we are baptised. Now what happens when one dies, he is freed from the law. In the same way we are now freed from the law. This doesn't mean that we go out and do everything contrary to the law, but what does it mean.

The book that explains it the best is Hebrews. Concerning the sabbath look at the 4th Chapter. There you will find the sabbath is TODAY, tomorrow will also be the sabbath as will every day in a Christian's life. Under the law, the sabbath itself was a commandment, so even the day of rest was a work, it was obeying the law. Now how can you rest if the very act of rest is under the law? The answer as laid out in Hebrews is that you can't. Keeping the seventh day as a sabbath was unable to bring people rest. Same is true of any other day of the week. The sabbath under the law could not ever bring people to God's ordained rest. Now, you have died to the law, you are freed from it, not just one day a week, but everyday, so each and every day you are able to receive God's sabbath rest.

It is so sad that so many deny the rest, they put themselves back under the law, either the Old Testament law or one of their own creation. This is what Paul was referring to when in Galatians, he worried if the people were even saved.

Galatians 3:3-4 NET(3) Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?(4) Have you suffered so many things for nothing? if indeed it was for nothing.

Why when God has granted you rest from the works of the law by his grace through faith in Jesus Christ, would one turn back to the law?

Do we murder, no. Do we steal, no. Do we honor God, yes. Christians do all these things but not because they are commandments but because we want to. They are not a work. If the only thing keeping you from killing your brother is because it is against the law to do so, you are not operating under grace. If you are worshipping simply because of what day it is on the calendar, you are not operating under grace. Since salvation is not brought by the law, but by grace, it concerns us when we see someone operating under law because we are concerned about his salvation, because if all he has is law, he has no salvation.

Hope that helps you understand.
Marv

[joyinhim]

It is easy to get things mixed up concerning the law, including the 10 Commandments.

When we come into Christ, we die with Christ. It is this death that we represent when we are baptised. Now what happens when one dies, he is freed from the law. In the same way we are now freed from the law. This doesn't mean that we go out and do everything contrary to the law, but what does it mean.

The book that explains it the best is Hebrews. Concerning the sabbath look at the 4th Chapter. There you will find the sabbath is TODAY, tomorrow will also be the sabbath as will every day in a Christian's life. Under the law, the sabbath itself was a commandment, so even the day of rest was a work, it was obeying the law. Now how can you rest if the very act of rest is under the law? The answer as laid out in Hebrews is that you can't. Keeping the seventh day as a sabbath was unable to bring people rest. Same is true of any other day of the week. The sabbath under the law could not ever bring people to God's ordained rest. Now, you have died to the law, you are freed from it, not just one day a week, but everyday, so each and every day you are able to receive God's sabbath rest.

It is so sad that so many deny the rest, they put themselves back under the law, either the Old Testament law or one of their own creation. This is what Paul was referring to when in Galatians, he worried if the people were even saved.

Galatians 3:3-4 NET(3) Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?(4) Have you suffered so many things for nothing? if indeed it was for nothing.

Why when God has granted you rest from the works of the law by his grace through faith in Jesus Christ, would one turn back to the law?

Do we murder, no. Do we steal, no. Do we honor God, yes. Christians do all these things but not because they are commandments but because we want to. They are not a work. If the only thing keeping you from killing your brother is because it is against the law to do so, you are not operating under grace. If you are worshipping simply because of what day it is on the calendar, you are not operating under grace. Since salvation is not brought by the law, but by grace, it concerns us when we see someone operating under law because we are concerned about his salvation, because if all he has is law, he has no salvation.

Hope that helps you understand.
Marv

Arn't we just word playing here? We have to stop working aginst God in this manner. Just because they are trying to follow His teaching that does not make them legalists or doing the work for their own strengh. Why do you judge them in this manner?. We should rejoice with them for their obedience. Christians who do good deeds know all good deeds come from God. Please don't put down obedient Christans. :cry:

[joyinhim]

Arn't we just word playing here? We have to stop working aginst God in this manner. Just because they are trying to follow His teaching that does not make them legalists or doing the work for their own strengh. Why do you judge them in this manner?. We should rejoice with them for their obedience. Christians who do good deeds know all good deeds come from God. Please don't put down obedient Christans. :cry:

By the way I am not SDA member. I have witnessed their congregation's fruit. We know by their fruit if they are true followers or not. Fruit won't lie

[Redguard]

I was raised as an Adventist, but I gave up that church after moving out of my parent's house.

The problems that I had with the church was the emphasis placed on Ellen G. White. It just seemed odd to me that I belonged to a church with a "prophetess" despite the fact that it clearly says in Matthew 7:15 "Beware of False Prophets".

Why take the risk?

I also didn't like all the misplaced emphasis on the things that I "did" being considered for my salvation. There was literally a watchdog sort of behaviour where people would be observing exactly "what" I was doing on the Sabbath (to make sure I wasn't breaking it) and watched what I "ate" (no pork, shrimp, caffeine, etc).

I knew that I didn't want to raise my daughter to know God through this sort of path. It was very discouraging. And the attitude that Adventists have towards those who go to church on Sunday is appalling. It would embarass me endlessly.

The only thing that I haven't really gotten any resolution with is the Sunday/Sabbath thing.

Here's why.

We live in a society that claims to hold the 10 Commandments as valid, right? Yet, I feel that it should be clear when the 4th commandment says, "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy, six days shall thou labour, but the seventh day is the day of the lord, thy God".

As far as I know, the seventh day is Saturday. But people want to act as though they're keeping this commandment by keeping Sunday holy, which is confusing to me.

So that's the only thing that I have left to come to complete resolution with.

In the meantime, I'm attending a very nice Baptist church. It's funny... people have this impression of Baptists being strict and legalistic...

Heh, they've never met an Adventist.

[joyinhim]

I was raised as an Adventist, but I gave up that church after moving out of my parent's house.

The problems that I had with the church was the emphasis placed on Ellen G. White. It just seemed odd to me that I belonged to a church with a "prophetess" despite the fact that it clearly says in Matthew 7:15 "Beware of False Prophets".

Why take the risk?

I also didn't like all the misplaced emphasis on the things that I "did" being considered for my salvation. There was literally a watchdog sort of behaviour where people would be observing exactly "what" I was doing on the Sabbath (to make sure I wasn't breaking it) and watched what I "ate" (no pork, shrimp, caffeine, etc).

I knew that I didn't want to raise my daughter to know God through this sort of path. It was very discouraging. And the attitude that Adventists have towards those who go to church on Sunday is appalling. It would embarass me endlessly.

The only thing that I haven't really gotten any resolution with is the Sunday/Sabbath thing.

Here's why.

We live in a society that claims to hold the 10 Commandments as valid, right? Yet, I feel that it should be clear when the 4th commandment says, "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy, six days shall thou labour, but the seventh day is the day of the lord, thy God".

As far as I know, the seventh day is Saturday. But people want to act as though they're keeping this commandment by keeping Sunday holy, which is confusing to me.

So that's the only thing that I have left to come to complete resolution with.

In the meantime, I'm attending a very nice Baptist church. It's funny... people have this impression of Baptists being strict and legalistic...

Heh, they've never met an Adventist.

I have searched SDA's work(fruit). God is using them abundantly. You are young. Why did you leave SDA? Isn't that because you don't want to give up worldly desires? When people leave their church usually they are seeking loose church which means that they don't like churches who make them feel guilty for their easy christianity. You sound like one of those.

[Redguard]

I have searched SDA's work(fruit). God is using them abundantly. You are young. Why did you leave SDA? Isn't that because you don't want to give up worldly desires? When people leave their church usually they are seeking loose church which means that they don't like churches who make them feel guilty for their easy christianity. You sound like one of those.
Thanks.

[joyinhim]

Thanks.

I truly hope you be fruitful for Him. Once you start being obidient to Him you will know how blessing His teaching is.:crossrc:

[rosiecotton]

I truly hope you be fruitful for Him. Once you start being obidient to Him you will know how blessing His teaching is.:crossrc:

How do you know he isn't being obedient to God????

[joyinhim]

How do you know he isn't being obedient to God????

I did not ask you. Why are you ansering for him? He can speak for himself.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I did not ask you. Why are you ansering for him? He can speak for himself.
Well when you speak on a message board other people can and will reply. You implied that he may not be being obedient to God and that is a pretty harsh implication. I am curious as well as to why you say something like that to someone you do not know based on a few posts about them leaving the SDA church.

[joyinhim]

Well when you speak on a message board other people can and will reply. You implied that he may not be being obedient to God and that is a pretty harsh implication. I am curious as well as to why you say something like that to someone you do not know based on a few posts about them leaving the SDA church.

Are you starting a fight?

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Are you starting a fight?
I am not even thinking about a fight. I am further curious why you would be so defensive about the statement you made. I would say that everyone in this forum (The non-denominational forum) is following God to the best of their ability. You seemed to imply that one poster isn't and a couple of people were rightly curious and asked what you meant by it. This is after a message board and interaction with others is the whole point. I am not trying to start a fight but you seem a might bit defensive. It's really a simple question but in two parts now: Why would you imply that someone isn't following God? and: Why would you be so defensive when asked about it?

[joyinhim]

I am not even thinking about a fight. I am further curious why you would be so defensive about the statement you made. I would say that everyone in this forum (The non-denominational forum) is following God to the best of their ability. You seemed to imply that one poster isn't and a couple of people were rightly curious and asked what you meant by it. This is after a message board and interaction with others is the whole point. I am not trying to start a fight but you seem a might bit defensive. It's really a simple question but in two parts now: Why would you imply that someone isn't following God? and: Why would you be so defensive when asked about it?



Good day flesh.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Good day flesh.
And to you as well! :scratch:

Does this mean we aren't going to find out what you meant?

[joyinhim]

And to you as well! :scratch:

Does this mean we aren't going to find out what you meant?

I will not take your bait. i don't think we have the same kind of Christianity and we will never budge from our point of view. I believe redguatd has an ear to listen. That's why asked him question and suggestion too. I don't debate or fight.

peace:wave:

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I will not take your bait. i don't think we have the same kind of Christianity and we will never budge from our point of view. I believe redguatd has an ear to listen. That's why asked him question and suggestion too. I don't debate or fight.

peace:wave:
It is not bait. I honestly want to know what you meant. However there is only one kind of Christianity and that is believing in your heart that Christ is God's Son and confessing with your mouth that God raised him from the dead. That is all it takes to be saved. There are not rules about what day we worship. We should in fact be worshipping every single day. Redguard says he left the SDA church because of EGW which is not a uncommon thing amongst ex-SDAs. Some would still like that church to reform. If you keep the sabbath then more power to you! I do not keep the sabbath because it is not binding on Christians. I just wanted to know how you knew that Redguard wasn't following God when it seems obvious to me that he was lead away from a false prophet by God.

[joyinhim]

It is not bait. I honestly want to know what you meant. However there is only one kind of Christianity and that is believing in your heart that Christ is God's Son and confessing with your mouth that God raised him from the dead. That is all it takes to be saved. There are not rules about what day we worship. We should in fact be worshipping every single day. Redguard says he left the SDA church because of EGW which is not a uncommon thing amongst ex-SDAs. Some would still like that church to reform. If you keep the sabbath then more power to you! I do not keep the sabbath because it is not binding on Christians. I just wanted to know how you knew that Redguard wasn't following God when it seems obvious to me that he was lead away from a false prophet by God.

I doubted his main reason for his leaving the church. that's way I asked him. I am just doing what God wants me to ask or do. I take it very seriously when it comes to witnessing to young or new Christians. And I always support Christians with obvious fruit. I never ever try to put them down.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I doubted his main reason for his leaving the church. that's way I asked him. I am just doing what God wants me to ask or do. I take it very seriously when it comes to witnessing to young or new Christians. And I always support Christians with obvious fruit. I never ever try to put them down.
Well fruit is not always an obvious measure. There are many secular organizations that do wonderful things for feeding the homeless such as food not bombs. Teaching false doctrine is a bad fruit and that has to be taken into account. You cannot simply look into the good fruits side of things and make a decision based on that.

The Catholic Church has more charitable organizations than any other denomination, has more hospitals, and does more for the community than just about any three churches combined. Would you argue against someone leaving the Catholic Church?

[joyinhim]

Well fruit is not always an obvious measure. There are many secular organizations that do wonderful things for feeding the homeless such as food not bombs. Teaching false doctrine is a bad fruit and that has to be taken into account. You cannot simply look into the good fruits side of things and make a decision based on that.

The Catholic Church has more charitable organizations than any other denomination, has more hospitals, and does more for the community than just about any three churches combined. Would you argue against someone leaving the Catholic Church?

I searched and I believe God helped me too. How I discern fruit of Christianity is my own. I will not let any one judge me about it;).

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I searched and I believe God helped me too. How I discern fruit of Christianity is my own. I will not let any one judge me about it;).
Relax. I am not judging you at all, it ain't my job. I am merely pointing out that a church founded on the writings of a plagiarist and false prophet calls for a lot of scrutiny and that saying they have lots of fruit doesn't take away from the fact that there is false doctrine being taught. Of course there is false doctrine being taught in every church that I know of. It is because we are humans trying to teach divine ideals. The particular reason the SDA doctrines are debated so frequently is because they are extra-Biblical in their teaching of the sabbath and other doctrines.

[joyinhim]

Relax. I am not judging you at all, it ain't my job. I am merely pointing out that a church founded on the writings of a plagiarist and false prophet calls for a lot of scrutiny and that saying they have lots of fruit doesn't take away from the fact that there is false doctrine being taught. Of course there is false doctrine being taught in every church that I know of. It is because we are humans trying to teach divine ideals. The particular reason the SDA doctrines are debated so frequently is because they are extra-Biblical in their teaching of the sabbath and other doctrines.

Again, I listened to Doug Batchelor and did not find any unbiblical Christianity. Except I thought they were even much better than most of the denominations I attended. This is my observation that because there are so obedient people, the other denominations are intimidated by it. I know you don't agree with me. That's why I did not want to get into this. We just have to agree to disagree on this.

Of course every one on CF believes they are the one true followers of God. Well, we have to wait on God's judgement. Until then I will speak my two cents worth OK?;) btw, I am not SDA member.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Again, I listened to Doug Batchelor and did not find any unbiblical Christianity. Except I thought they were even much better than most of the denominations I attended. This is my observation that because there are so obedient people, the other denominations are intimidated by it. I know you don't agree with me. That's why I did not want to get into this. We just have to agree to disagree on this.

Of course every one on CF believes they are the one true followers of God. Well, we have to wait on God's judgement. Until then I will speak my two cents worth OK?;) btw, I am not SDA member.
Doug and his crowd have to explain away a slew of New Testament verses and frequently don't even adress them until they are brought up. Colossians 2:16 is all the evidence anyone needs. Doug also claims the sabbath was kept prior to the giving of the law which is easily disproven as well. As I said if you keep the sabbath then more power to you. I have no problem with sabbath keepers as I do not believe we are called to any certain day. (Back to colossians 2:16) the problem comes in when people start trying to impose laws on Christians that do not exist. If you were to properly keep the sabbath and believe it is binding then profiting from the works of those working on the sabbath would be sinful under 1 Tim 5:22 so you would have to spend the sabbath without electricity, make no phone calls, and so on. It would not be an easy task at all. If we were called to keep the sabbath then I would most assuredly do so and would not partake in the sabbath labor of others. The overall point is that we are not called to keep the sabbath.

Think on these things. Especially the problem 1 Tim 5:22 presents in the whole sabbath keeping ideal. The argument for sabbath keeping is that nothing has changed at all in regards to the sabbath. I say the sabbath was a shadow of Christ and we now enter into God's rest. I use the same NT passage to say that as the sabbath keepers use to prove that we are to keep the sabbath, Hebrews 4. Think about it for a while and see if you can reconcile using the fruit of other's sabbath labor with the sabbath being a commandment.

[joyinhim]

Doug and his crowd have to explain away a slew of New Testament verses and frequently don't even adress them until they are brought up. Colossians 2:16 is all the evidence anyone needs. Doug also claims the sabbath was kept prior to the giving of the law which is easily disproven as well. As I said if you keep the sabbath then more power to you. I have no problem with sabbath keepers as I do not believe we are called to any certain day. (Back to colossians 2:16) the problem comes in when people start trying to impose laws on Christians that do not exist. If you were to properly keep the sabbath and believe it is binding then profiting from the works of those working on the sabbath would be sinful under 1 Tim 5:22 so you would have to spend the sabbath without electricity, make no phone calls, and so on. It would not be an easy task at all. If we were called to keep the sabbath then I would most assuredly do so and would not partake in the sabbath labor of others. The overall point is that we are not called to keep the sabbath.

Thanks but I already checked them out and he makes sense. I don't agree all of what he says but overall I believe he is godlyman. I started Sabbath on Saturday. I am open to all of godly practice.:wave:

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Thanks but I already checked them out and he makes sense. I don't agree all of what he says but overall I believe he is godlyman. I started Sabbath on Saturday. I am open to all of godly practice.:wave:
As should be everyone. Please don't think I am trying to convince you not to keep the sabbath. Far be it from me to do something like that. My only issue is those who think they are better than others because they keep the sabbath or those that would attempt to impose it on others. We are not bound by day according to Colossians 2:16 so whatever day you choose to worship God is awesome!

[joyinhim]

As should be everyone. Please don't think I am trying to convince you not to keep the sabbath. Far be it from me to do something like that. My only issue is those who think they are better than others because they keep the sabbath or those that would attempt to impose it on others. We are not bound by day according to Colossians 2:16 so whatever day you choose to worship God is awesome!

They never say they are better than other denomination because they keep the Sabbath. They are practicing much much more. I learned a lot from Doug Batchelor. Please don't put them down. When we persecute godly Christians we are going to be in deep trouble with Him. I haven't seen many godly churches around. They are jewel to my family.

I am speaking for them because I know about their practice. If I keep silence I will be in trouble with the Lord!

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

They never say they are better than other denomination because they keep the Sabbath. They are practicing much much more. I learned a lot from Doug Batchelor. Please don't put them down. When we persecute godly Christians we are going to be in deep trouble with Him. I haven't seen many godly churches around. They are jewel to my family.

I am speaking for them because I know about their practice. If I keep silence I will be in trouble with the Lord!
They do in fact claim to be better than any other denomination. They claim that they alone are the remnant church spoken of in Revelations and that EGW is proof of that as the "spirit of propecy". Directly from their official doctrinal statement.

13. The Remnant and Its Mission:
The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

The line "the work of judgment in heaven" refers to an SDA only doctrine claiming Christ is in a chamber finalizing His work. This alone contradicts scripture as scripture plainly states Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Again directly from their doctrinal statement:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Before we go on lets take a look at some of EGW's writings:


But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.

Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.

So there are races of men in which we can see an "amalgamation" of man and beast? I wonder what races those are according to EGW? This doctrine is found nowhere in scripture and is from the so called prophet whose writings founded and continue to be the cornerstone of the SDA church. But let's continue to look at her words, shall we?

They do not see that God requires them to control their married lives from any excesses. But very few feel it to be a religious duty to govern their passions. They have united themselves in marriage to the object of their choice, and therefore reason that marriage sanctifies the indulgence of the baser passions. Even men and women professing godliness give loose rein to their lustful passions, and have no thought that God holds them accountable for the expenditure of vital energy, which weakens their hold on life and enervates the entire system.
Scripture clearly contradicts this in telling us not to deny our partner except for a time of prayer and fasting. Science tells us she was wrong as well in that sex relieves stress and aside from STDs, which shouldn't be an issue for any married Christian couple, helps increase the immune system.

This is just a very small sampling or EGW quotes that would frankly shock most Christians. If you think the SDA are not serious about EGW then here is part of their baptismal statement.

10. Do you believe that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and will you honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful; abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs?

Scripture mebert forbids alcohol and in fact reccomends it for stomach problems and says elders should not be give to much wine. The unclean foods section is strictly legalism and contradicts the New Testament scriptures on foods. Unlcean foods are part of the Old Law and not the new.

8. Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church?

Again we see the "spirit of prophecy" comment, which we see in their official doctrinal statement refers to EGW. We also see the remnant church comment. This is important because of the last section of the baptismal vow:

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church?

So they are rememnant church. This is shown over and over again. If you look hard enough you will find that they even claim Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast. Your statement that they do not think they are better than other denominations is disproven by documents on their official website (http://www.adventist.org).

[joyinhim]

According to the Internet Online Encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church, they are not a cult. Please be fair.

[Jim Woodell]

Where in the Bible say that we should worship on the first day of the week?

Keep in mind that we are not under the letter of the law; we are under the spirit of the law (Rom. 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6).

Why do Christians worship on the first day of the week?
1. This is the day Christ was raised on. Luke 24:1
2. He made his resurrection appearances on the first day of the week. Lk.24:13ff
3. Jesus went back to heaven on the first day of the week.
4. The church as we know it came into being on the first day of the week. Acts 2
5. Christians assembled as a church on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2
6. Rev. 1:10 refers to the Lord's Day. What day of the week do you imagine that was?

The Roman Catholic Church did not change the day of worship to Sunday. Christ did that by making the "first day of the week" HIS DAY.

We are not to meet with other Christians because we are coerced by law, but because we are drawn (led) by love. "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." (2 Cor. 5:14-15)

It is interesting that of all the ten commandments, the one single commandment you will not find in the NT is the fourth: "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy."

[joyinhim]

Keep in mind that we are not under the letter of the law; we are under the spirit of the law (Rom. 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6).

Why do Christians worship on the first day of the week?
1. This is the day Christ was raised on. Luke 24:1
2. He made his resurrection appearances on the first day of the week. Lk.24:13ff
3. Jesus went back to heaven on the first day of the week.
4. The church as we know it came into being on the first day of the week. Acts 2
5. Christians assembled as a church on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2
6. Rev. 1:10 refers to the Lord's Day. What day of the week do you imagine that was?

The Roman Catholic Church did not change the day of worship to Sunday. Christ did that by making the "first day of the week" HIS DAY.

We are not to meet with other Christians because we are coerced by law, but because we are drawn (led) by love. "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." (2 Cor. 5:14-15)

OK Pastor Jim, I will not rehash what they have already been through.:wave:

[Jim Woodell]

OK Pastor Jim, I will not rehash what they have already been through.:wave:

Sorry! I didn't read all of the previous posts.

Hope you have a good, blessed day.:)

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

According to the Internet Online Encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church, they are not a cult. Please be fair.
Citing wikipedia is quite funny actually. Anyone can edit the entry. There were considered a cult as late as 1955. But you will note that I did not call them a cult. I cited official church writings and writings directly from their prophet. I cited scripture that contradicts those writings. How am I painting them as a cult? I have only shown they teach non-Biblical doctrines. The same can be said for many baptist churches who teach that it is sinful to drink, many non-denominational churches that practice the gift of tongues in a confusing manner not in line with the scripture regarding it in 1 Cor, or any church that claims you must speak in tongues to be saved. I would argue just a vehemently against those doctrines as well. I have not called the SDA a cult in my posts in this thread at all. But even wikipedia still has the claim they are a cult by Evangelical groups listed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Outsider_Criticisms_of_Seventh-day_Adventism

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Keep in mind that we are not under the letter of the law; we are under the spirit of the law (Rom. 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6).

Why do Christians worship on the first day of the week?
1. This is the day Christ was raised on. Luke 24:1
2. He made his resurrection appearances on the first day of the week. Lk.24:13ff
3. Jesus went back to heaven on the first day of the week.
4. The church as we know it came into being on the first day of the week. Acts 2
5. Christians assembled as a church on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2
6. Rev. 1:10 refers to the Lord's Day. What day of the week do you imagine that was?

The Roman Catholic Church did not change the day of worship to Sunday. Christ did that by making the "first day of the week" HIS DAY.

We are not to meet with other Christians because we are coerced by law, but because we are drawn (led) by love. "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." (2 Cor. 5:14-15)

It is interesting that of all the ten commandments, the one single commandment you will not find in the NT is the fourth: "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy."


Great post Jim! Just have to let you know your references are dead on.

[joyinhim]

Citing wikipedia is quite funny actually. Anyone can edit the entry. There were considered a cult as late as 1955. But you will note that I did not call them a cult. I cited official church writings and writings directly from their prophet. I cited scripture that contradicts those writings. How am I painting them as a cult? I have only shown they teach non-Biblical doctrines. The same can be said for many baptist churches who teach that it is sinful to drink, many non-denominational churches that practice the gift of tongues in a confusing manner not in line with the scripture regarding it in 1 Cor, or any church that claims you must speak in tongues to be saved. I would argue just a vehemently against those doctrines as well. I have not called the SDA a cult in my posts in this thread at all.

When he says "We are the remnants" he means all Christians. I have been listening to him from a neutral position. I repeat again, my obsevation is that they are godlier than other denominations. It seems that those oppose SDA are coveting. If I am wrong in my defense I will be working against the Lord! I don't play Christian. Have you listening to his seminars yourself?
We should never criticize anyone without first hand knowledge.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

We keep the Eighth Day with joy, the day when Jesus rose from the dead. Letter of Barnabas, c. AD 74

(Barnabus was a friend of Paul! The above was written by him. Jesus died in AD 33, the above was written only 34 yrs later, Barnabus was apparently still alive..read church history..its enlightening!)

The Eighth Day. Interesting phrase, but what does it mean? Well, it's actually a very Jewish expression. The full phrase is, "the Eighth Day of Creation." In Jewish lore, before and during the time of Jesus, it was said that when the Messiah should come the Creation would move into its eighth day, the Day of Fulfillment. In the Old Covenant the Seventh Day was hallowed because God had rested on that day; but when Messiah the King came, a New Day would dawn, the Day when God would make all things new, and would "recreate the world." Hence, those who would enter that period must themselves be "born again," become "new creatures," part of this New Creation of the World. Paul mentions this Eighth Day, as do many of the early Fathers of the Church.
Just thirty years after Barnabas' letter was written, Ignatius, the bishop of Antioch wrote this: "No longer do we observe the Sabbath, but live in observance of the Lord's Day." He goes on to tell us when this day is - Sunday - and calls it the "queen of days" because Jesus rose on it. Ignatius, by the way, was of Jewish background and he himself tells us that he was the child who sat on Christ's lap at the blessing of the children mentioned in the Bible. He was no "Hellenizing Gentile," but one of the People of Israel who had found his all in Jesus


JESUS IS OUR SABBATH NOW..we REST in him!!

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

When he says "We are the remnants" he means all Christians. I have been listening to him from a neutral position. I repeat again, my obsevation is that they are godlier than other denominations. It seems that those oppose SDA are coveting. If I am wrong in my defense I will be working against the Lord! I don't play Christian. Have you listening to his seminars yourself?
We should never criticize anyone without first hand knowledge.
I have first hand knowledge. I had family involved in the SDA church. Read the official doctrinal statement that I posted. I assure you that they are not refering to the whole of Christendom when they refer to the remnant church, they are refering to the SDA only. If you simply read their own words you will see it. I covet nothing from the SDA church. I covet not legalism, the old law, and false prophets. The man you refer to is only part of the SDA organization and I am speaking of the whole of that church from their doctrinal statement and baptismal vows.

Here is the baptismal vow again, the last point in fact. I have highlighted exactly what I am talking about:

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church?

How can you say that they are refering to all Christians or all of Christendom when their very own baptismal vow says something completely different? You say you find them more godly than other denominations and yet they huge huge glaring doctrinal errors. You make claims that even the SDA do not make. Ask one of them what the mark of the beast is and if those of us who choose to worship on Sunday can be saved once the sabbath is explained to us. I think you may well be suprised at their answer.

[Redguard]

When SDA's speak of the "remnant", they're speaking of themselves. Not other Christians.

As far as they're concerned, people who attend church on Sunday bear the mark of the beast since it's beleived that the Sabbath is the Seal of God.

[joyinhim]

When SDA's speak of the "remnant", they're speaking of themselves. Not other Christians.

As far as they're concerned, people who attend church on Sunday bear the mark of the beast since it's beleived that the Sabbath is the Seal of God.

I believe that we are breaking the Sabbath law. And that's the not the only we are breaking. And don't come after me about this post. OK?;) thanks.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I believe that we are breaking the Sabbath law. And that's the not the only we are breaking. And don't come after me about this post. OK?;) thanks.
Colossians 2:16

That says all that really needs to be said about having a specific day for worship. It's direct from scripture, not my opinion, not some commentator's opinion, but clear and vivid scripture.

[joyinhim]

Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

That says all that really needs to be said about having a specific day for worship. It's direct from scripture, not my opinion, not some commentator's opinion, but clear and vivid scripture.

OK flesh, I am done with the SDA thread. I am not even their member. I am not even considering to be a member because of other things which I am not get into. I am still going to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. I hope you are not fighting against God though.

Good day and God bless:wave:

[Redguard]

OK flesh, I am done with the SDA thread. I am not even their member. I am not even considering to be a member because of other things which I am not get into. I am still going to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. I hope you are not fighting against God though.

Good day and God bless:wave:
If you're not an SDA member, then why were you insulting me for leaving the church?

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

OK flesh, I am done with the SDA thread. I am not even their member. I am not even considering to be a member because of other things which I am not get into. I am still going to keep the Sabbath on Saturday. I hope you are not fighting against God though.

Good day and God bless:wave:
I am not fighting against God. And you are free to keep any day you wish and no-one should judge you for keeping the sabbath if you so choose. Colossians is quite clear on that. :) Praise God you have set aside a day to worship to Him at all. So many people don't even bother to do that! Feel absolutely free to keep Saturday as your day of worship and I pray you are blessed!

[joyinhim]

If you're not an SDA member, then why were you insulting me for leaving the church?

I did not insult you, Yould you read my question for you one more time?

[Redguard]

I did not insult you, Yould you read my question for you one more time?

Okay

I have searched SDA's work(fruit). God is using them abundantly. You are young. Why did you leave SDA? Isn't that because you don't want to give up worldly desires? When people leave their church usually they are seeking loose church which means that they don't like churches who make them feel guilty for their easy christianity. You sound like one of those.

I tried to ignore you by simply giving you a sarcastic "thanks". What I didn't tell you was that I was deeply insulted by your insinuation that I left the SDA church because I was seeking a "Loose Church".

So in case you didn't pick up on the insult that you gave me, here it is.

[joyinhim]

Okay



I tried to ignore you by simply giving you a sarcastic "thanks". What I didn't tell you was that I was deeply insulted by your insinuation that I left the SDA church because I was seeking a "Loose Church".

So in case you didn't pick up on the insult that you gave me, here it is.

I am sorry, I never meant to insult you. I always come from general point of view. I never meant personal attack. If you are not just seeking comfortable church, I am happy for you.:thumbsup:

[Airdude]

Joyinhim,

They never say they are better than other denomination because they keep the Sabbath. They are practicing much much more. I learned a lot from Doug Batchelor. Please don't put them down. When we persecute godly Christians we are going to be in deep trouble with Him. I haven't seen many godly churches around. They are jewel to my family.

I am speaking for them because I know about their practice. If I keep silence I will be in trouble with the Lord!

What you say is very true. Thank you for your support! Keep listening to Pastor Doug. He has a way of getting his point across that is often easier to understand than some of the others. He also has a very interesting personal testimony.:wave:

[joyinhim]

Joyinhim,



What you say is very true. Thank you for your support! Keep listening to Pastor Doug. He has a way of getting his point across that is often easier to understand than some of the others. He also has a very interesting personal testimony.:wave:

airdude, those opposers are saying that your denomination is the only one get the seal of Him. Is that right?

[joyinhim]

airdude, those opposers are saying that your denomination is the only one get the seal of Him. Is that right?

Hello, SDA, anybody can answer my question? I supported you. Now it's your turn to help me out here. Hello.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Airdude]

airdude, those opposers are saying that your denomination is the only one get the seal of Him. Is that right?http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gif



No, that is not what the church teaches. Those who do not accept the Mark of the Beast will receive God's seal.

[xristos.anesti]

And what is the mark of the beast?

[Redguard]

airdude, those opposers are saying that your denomination is the only one get the seal of Him. Is that right?http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gif



No, that is not what the church teaches. Those who do not accept the Mark of the Beast will receive God's seal.
Here's what I was taught as an Adventist. And I'm not making this up, nor am I trying to create any slander.

1. Sunday Worship is the Mark of the Beast
2. The Sabbath is the Seal of God
3. Adventists are the only Christians who properly keep the Sabbath Commandment.
4. Therefore, the SDA church is the "remnant" church
5. Therefore, Adventists are the only ones who receive the Seal of God.

Many, many pastors have preached this to the congregations that I've belonged to as an Adventist, so I'm surprised to see you say that Adventists do not teach this.

[Jim Woodell]

I believe that we are breaking the Sabbath law. And that's the not the only we are breaking. And don't come after me about this post. OK?;) thanks.

Under the new covenant there is no sabbath law. How can we be breaking a law that no longer has application?

I am not coming after you, BUT you are completely mistaken or misinformed on this subject.

[Jim Woodell]

I am not fighting against God. And you are free to keep any day you wish and no-one should judge you for keeping the sabbath if you so choose. Colossians is quite clear on that. :) Praise God you have set aside a day to worship to Him at all. So many people don't even bother to do that! Feel absolutely free to keep Saturday as your day of worship and I pray you are blessed!

I would agree with this, except in the case a person is seeking justification by "sabbath keeping." "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Gal. 5:4)

I am convinced that we should worship God every day of the week. God should be the center of our lives at work and play. As someone has observed, "We don't come together to worship, we come to worship together." All of our lives should be worship.

[Faith In God]

Under the new covenant there is no sabbath law. How can we be breaking a law that no longer has application?
.Where did the other nine go? Do they no longer have an application?

[Jim Woodell]

Where did the other nine go? Do they no longer have an application?

You do find the other nine in and under the New Covenant:Matt. 22:37-38;Romans 13:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; Col 2:16-23; 1 Tim. 1:8-11; Heb. 8:7-13.

There is no mention under the New Covenant of Remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy.

[joyinhim]

airdude, those opposers are saying that your denomination is the only one get the seal of Him. Is that right?http://www3.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gif



No, that is not what the church teaches. Those who do not accept the Mark of the Beast will receive God's seal.

Thank you for your clarification.:wave:

[xristos.anesti]

You do find the other nine in and under the New Covenant:Matt. 22:37-38;Romans 13:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; Col 2:16-23; 1 Tim. 1:8-11; Heb. 8:7-13.

There is no mention under the New Covenant of Remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy.

Amin. :thumbsup:

[Triple7]

From a SDA insider.
SDA has doctrine just like Catholics and other noms.

Here are gimmick SDA doctrines to get you to follow them.
It is about money.

Worship of any outside figure is wrong - Ellen White is just an example.

Sabbath - If you want to know the truth about the Sabbath read the KJV of the book of Timothy.
Eating meat - Again, book of Timothy.

Not only this but woman rule the church of SDA plain and simple and they also preach more than any other church I know of. Their is something wrong here.

They also try to portray other noms as racial.

You should be wary of new versions of the bible. I don't use any bible with the word new on the cover. God will forgive us if we are wrong for using a old one.

They concentrate on only specific parts of the OT to get you to join them and also push outside literature on you, Ellen White etc.

SDA is a gimmick doctrine riddled church. Evil spirits are there. I pray for the christians there that they will see the light.

[Faith In God]

You do find the other nine in and under the New Covenant:Matt. 22:37-38;Romans 13:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; Col 2:16-23; 1 Tim. 1:8-11; Heb. 8:7-13.

There is no mention under the New Covenant of Remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy.
Read Acts 17. Paul's custom (remember, this is after Christ died) was to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Why do we do away with the one commandment that begins with "Remember"? The first disciples didn't.

[xristos.anesti]

Read Acts 17. Paul's custom (remember, this is after Christ died) was to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Why do we do away with the one commandment that begins with "Remember"? The first disciples didn't.

And on which day are they going to go to the synagogue?
Which day would we TODAY go to the synagogue?

The point is that Paul was in Act going into Jewish Synagogue to preach to the Jews, so of course, if he wanted to find them, he had to go on their sabbath. They were working on Lord's day.!

Christians, however, were gathering in the First day of the week, in St. Pauls time also (Acts 20, 7.).

Church was born on Sunday (Acts 2).
First sermon of the Christian Church was on Sunday (Acts 2).
First conversion of the Christian Church was on Sunday (Acts 2).

Etc.

[Jim Woodell]

Read Acts 17. Paul's custom (remember, this is after Christ died) was to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Why do we do away with the one commandment that begins with "Remember"? The first disciples didn't.

Paul was a Jew who was converted to Christ (Phil. 3:2-11). He went to synagogue on the Sabbath because that is where opportunities to share Christ were (1 Cor. 9:19-23). As you can see by reading the Acts 17 text, Paul preached Christ to the Jewish people at every opportunity, both in their synagogues and in the market place.

If you want a clear view of Paul's understanding of the law and its application to Christians study carefully the book of Galatians. He wrote to them, as part of this letter, "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, by by faith in Jesus Christ...because by observing the law no one will be justified." (Gal. 2:15-16).

Also read Col. 2:6-23, again from Paul's writings. Remember, he was the Apostle to the Gentiles. The Gentiles were not raised under the law of Moses. Sabbath keeping was not an issue with them, but there were Judaizers who wanted to bring the Gentiles under this "yoke of bondage." (Acts 15:1ff) You can see what Paul and the Jerusalem Council thought was essential for the Gentiles by reading Acts 15:19-21 and Acts 15:23-29.

"Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy," was not for the Gentiles. I am a Gentile. I observe the Lord's Day. The day Christ was raised from the dead, and the day he ascended back to heaven. This is also the day the first Christians met to observe the Lord's Supper (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2) and to worship God together.

[deu58]

Hello All



The SDA church freely admits that this happened. The people who did this realized and admitted that they made an error and vowed to never again try to set dates. The 1844 group were actually Millerites. The SDA movement did come out of that group but were not organized as the SDA denomination until 1861 or 1862.


This is flat not true airdude and you know it!! The Followers of Miller who Made the two predictions 1843 and 1844 NEVER admitted that they made an error in setting the dates, In fact they claim that their mistake was not in setting the dates but as to what was supposed to happen on that date,

Your prophetess claimed that it was God Himself who led the Millerites to set the date and then purposely deceived the Millerites By covering with his hand a mistake so they would not see it,

Early Writings, Spiritual Gifts Volume 1 {1882}Pg. 232

I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth.

Your prophetess justifies the first failed date,

Early Writings, Spiritual Gifts Volume 1 {1882}Pg. 235

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. HIS HAND COVERED A MISTAKE in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts. They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial.

your prophetess justifies the second failed time setting

Here is how they justified their time setting scheme. It is called the Sanctuary doctrine is still the de facto foundational doctrine of the SDA church today

On Oct 23,1844 Hiram Edson had the Sanctuary vision.
So they started, not by the road, but across the field, not wishing, I suppose, to meet any of the neighbors, who might taunt them. The field was a cornfield, in which the corn had been cut, and stood in shocks. The two men went silently, each engrossed in his own thoughts. As they neared the middle of the field, Edson felt as it were a hand upon his shoulder, stopping him; and looking up he saw, as in a vision, the sanctuary in heaven, and Jesus, on that day which ended the 2300 years of the prophecy, leaving the holy place and entering into the most holy, for the "cleansing of the sanctuary." Copied from the Hiram Edson website}

The Great Controversy, p. 423, (1888) {Ev 222.2
The Key to a Complete System of Truth.--The subject of the sanctuary was the key which unlocked the mystery of the disappointment of 1844. It opened to view a complete system of truth, connected and harmonious, showing that God's hand had directed the great advent movement, and revealing present duty as it brought to light the position and work of His people.--}


The SDA church has never admitted that their founding pioneers were wrong to set a time for the lords coming, In Fact they claim it was Gods will for them to set the time and they defend the time setting of William Miller, The error they claim was understanding what happened on that day,

yours in Christ
deu 58

[xristos.anesti]

Hello All




This is flat not true airdude and you know it!! The Followers of Miller who Made the two predictions 1843 and 1844 NEVER admitted that they made an error in setting the dates, In fact they claim that their mistake was not in setting the dates but as to what was supposed to happen on that date,

Your prophetess claimed that it was God Himself who led the Millerites to set the date and then purposely deceived the Millerites By covering with his hand a mistake so they would not see it,

Early Writings, Spiritual Gifts Volume 1 {1882}Pg. 232

I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth.

Your prophetess justifies the first failed date,

Early Writings, Spiritual Gifts Volume 1 {1882}Pg. 235

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. HIS HAND COVERED A MISTAKE in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts. They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial.

your prophetess justifies the second failed time setting

Here is how they justified their time setting scheme. It is called the Sanctuary doctrine is still the de facto foundational doctrine of the SDA church today

On Oct 23,1844 Hiram Edson had the Sanctuary vision.
So they started, not by the road, but across the field, not wishing, I suppose, to meet any of the neighbors, who might taunt them. The field was a cornfield, in which the corn had been cut, and stood in shocks. The two men went silently, each engrossed in his own thoughts. As they neared the middle of the field, Edson felt as it were a hand upon his shoulder, stopping him; and looking up he saw, as in a vision, the sanctuary in heaven, and Jesus, on that day which ended the 2300 years of the prophecy, leaving the holy place and entering into the most holy, for the "cleansing of the sanctuary." Copied from the Hiram Edson website}

The Great Controversy, p. 423, (1888) {Ev 222.2
The Key to a Complete System of Truth.--The subject of the sanctuary was the key which unlocked the mystery of the disappointment of 1844. It opened to view a complete system of truth, connected and harmonious, showing that God's hand had directed the great advent movement, and revealing present duty as it brought to light the position and work of His people.--}


The SDA church has never admitted that their founding pioneers were wrong to set a time for the lords coming, In Fact they claim it was Gods will for them to set the time and they defend the time setting of William Miller, The error they claim was understanding what happened on that day,

yours in Christ
deu 58

True.

[deu58]

Hello All



So, are you ready to throw out the Old Testament even though it is a very large part of God's inspired word? Your demands for New Testament authority are groundless due to the fact that the Sabbath was established in Genesis at the creation and there is not one verse in the New Testament commanding a change from what God had already established at the creation of the universe and then reinforced at Mt. Sinai via the Ten Commandments which are God's "Moral Law." These were set apart from the rest of the Old Testament "Ceremonial Law." The Ten Commandments were the only ones inscribe in stone tablets by God's finger. The others were also given to Moses from God, but were not inscribed in stone.:D

it is true that the OT is inspired, No christian would even think to dispute that, But what is also true is that the NT supercedes the OT as a body of law and commandments for the Christian today, If this were not so then we would have no authority to say that the Aaronic priest hood and the sacrificial system are no longer binding today,

We have to go to the NT to find what is binding on the believer saved by Jesus, And the Sabbath is not taught as a binding Commandment today,

As to the commandments being written in stone this is true, But the SDA arguement that the ten commandments were a work of God alone and placed in the ark is false,

There were TWO sets of Stones, Moses smashed the first set because Israel commited Idolatry with the golden calf,

It was Moses who cut the second set of stones with his own hands at Gods command,

Ex 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Moses took these two blank stones back up the mountain with him,

It does appear that God wrote the first ten commandments but then after that God commanded Moses to also write on the stones, Moses spent 40 days writing on the stones as God Commanded him,
Ex 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

Ex 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

So there was much more on the tablets than just the ten commandments as the SDA's would have us believe, The work of the tablets are a combined work of God and man and they were placed into the ark, Not just God alone,

They are as much a part of the Mosaic law as the book of the law that was outside the ark was

But all of this is irrelevant because the Bible clearly teaches that the commandments written in stone are no longer binding on the believer today.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

so to learn what commandments are binding on the believer today one must study the NT, Not the OT, Because the NT has the Law of Christ whereas the OT has the law of Moses, We are not under Moses, We are under Christ.
yours in Christ
deu 58

[deu58]

hello airdude

Because there is nothing that in the New Testament that ever changed the Sabbath. It is not there.


Yes there is, You SDA's just refuse to acknowledge it,

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Ac 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Ac 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ac 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another *: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Ga 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Ga 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Ga 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one * * new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby *:



Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly *, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


There are all kinds of verses that either say point blank or allude to the Sabbath as no longer binding on the believer today,

But there is not one verse that teaches or commands Christians to keep the Sabbath today, Nor are there any verses that show Christians gathering on the Sabbath for any worship or instruction, The SDA's try to say that Acts shows Christians Gathering on the Sabbath but if you look close at the verses you will see that is not the case at all.

The Gentiles mentioned were not Christians, They were Jewish Proselytes attending the synagogue on the Sabbath to learn about the law of Moses from the Jews, Then came Paul with the Gospel message of Christ seriously upsetting the Jews because their Proselytes wanted to hear more,

These synagogues were hostile to the Gospel, Not friendly, You can rest assured that any Gentile proselyte that received Paul's teaching on the Gospel was no longer welcome in the synagogue on the Sabbath!!!

yours in Christ
deu 58

[joyinhim]

hello airdude



Yes there is, You SDA's just refuse to acknowledge it,

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Ac 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Ac 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ac 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another *: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious *, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Ga 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Ga 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Ga 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Ga 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one * * new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby *:



Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly *, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


There are all kinds of verses that either say point blank or allude to the Sabbath as no longer binding on the believer today,

But there is not one verse that teaches or commands Christians to keep the Sabbath today, Nor are there any verses that show Christians gathering on the Sabbath for any worship or instruction, The SDA's try to say that Acts shows Christians Gathering on the Sabbath but if you look close at the verses you will see that is not the case at all.

The Gentiles mentioned were not Christians, They were Jewish Proselytes attending the synagogue on the Sabbath to learn about the law of Moses from the Jews, Then came Paul with the Gospel message of Christ seriously upsetting the Jews because their Proselytes wanted to hear more,

These synagogues were hostile to the Gospel, Not friendly, You can rest assured that any Gentile proselyte that received Paul's teaching on the Gospel was no longer welcome in the synagogue on the Sabbath!!!

yours in Christ
deu 58

Deu, Jesus did not abolish everything and certainly did not abolish Ten Commandments! We have to